Yep same thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
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Yep same thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
The list does look more like a Canadian splashing black for 2 Shaman and 2 sb golgari charm.
To me the biggest reason to play bUrg is for shaman, personally I'll play 3 but prefer the full set.
Sawatrix, have you considered considered running GSZ MD over a 3rd goyf or 4th goose? It would get your instant/sorcery count up to 29 and give you an 8th reoccurring shuffle effect for Sylvan Library, it also makes your 2 MD shaman less frugal. It also frees up a sb slot, for perhaps something like a cage or an abrupt decay.
Tormod, this is pure genius. Thank you. Kai and me are brewing somewhat different lists, and I guess this is just what was missing for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
Went 3:1 in a small tourney yesterday with a 14 creatures list. I may post a short summary tomorrow.
interesting, if we run 2 shaman and 3 goyf you call it canadian with b-splash. if we run 3 shaman 2 goyf it is burg.
well, maybe you all have missed something: This whole thread ladies and gentlemen is canadian with black splash for shaman !
@lurch: well done teammate, can't wait to crush people in gpt mainz side by side
in my opinion there are 2 options concerning the deckbuilding of german ********:
a) 11 creatures (4 goose 4 delver 3 shaman no goyf) and heavy disruption suite (maximum countermagic and removal) -> the deck becomes a controlish deck which beats combo and control consistently)
b) 13 creatures (4 goose 4 delver 5 shaman/goyf) and less countermagic and removal -> the deck gets better in grindy mus for the cost of being worse against combo and control.
it is finally your personal choice which route you'r going to follow.
it is all about the metagame.i just gave option b) a chance this week and i had an overall record of 7:2:0 which is not bad at all.
but maybe i'll return to my list of dezembre last year which was pretty sweet as well
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
There is wildly different tactic approaches involved, when playing shaman vs no-shaman. More than just the few sb cards/md shamans/decays.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
@Sawatarix: Do you board out your 2 DS when you board in 2 Rough//Tumble? Especially against elves, D&T, maybe Jund?
Normally I would think yes because Rough kills him too but especially against D&T he 's good in keeping mana sources on board against Waste & Port.
Would like to hear your thoughts about it.
@manipulato: rough was a nogo card when i used to play 3 or even 4 shaman in my mainboard obviously.fire covenant was the way to go. after months of testing i realized, that most of the time fire covenant was rough for the costs of 3 mana and between 6-10 lifepoints.
i also rarely burned a tarmogoyf or a tombstalker with it. sometimes i even could not cast fire cov due to my low life total because i got attacked by many elves, goblins or fishies.
all in all, rough is a way better card than fire cov is.
rough gets boarded against:
elves,dnt,shardless bug, jund,goblins,merfolk, ant,tes,maverick,deadguy,deathblade.
after test games with and without shamans + rough it felt like it does not matter.
even if you have shaman on board you still trade 4 for 2 or so.
if you have both rough and shaman in hand you obviously play rough first then shaman.
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Exactly that is my current problem with fire covenent (cc3). Instant speed is great but the life loss (3-6 life or something) can matter and its quite expensive, after playing a lot of rough I felt quite in love with it but with 3 Shamans MB its kind of contraproductiv. In your list its not soo scary because you only play 2 Shaman but for my taste its 1 to less. ..Have to think about the exact configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Thanks for your answer.
Greetings
:smile: tyQuote:
Originally Posted by lurch
That is interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
I suppose for me bUrg is DRS + Abrupt decay, but I do acknowledge that a lot of guys have cut AD from their decks. (personally i still run 2)
For Consideration: If cuttin down to 2 shaman and 0 abrupt decay, then how relevant is it to have black in the deck?
Proposal: Run RUG with no seas and 2 shaman
Pros:
Nicer manabase
plays the 8th fetch to help threshold and the sylvan.
be able to remove creatures and be able to disrupt renanimator and dredge decks.
disrupt opponents graveyards to cut off threshold
Mana ramp
Cons:
Acess to only 2/3 Shaman's abilities/loss of reach.
Sawatrix, for your consideration:
1 sea, 2 volcanic, 3 tropical + 8 blue fetches in in addition to cutting the 4th goose or 3rd goyf for MD GSZ, it would improve your delver flips and the number of cards that help thresh. If the 2nd Sea is required in the 75, it could be added into the SB where the GSZ was.
Okay so first things first:
In my opinion RUG is pretty worse in the current UWx Meta than German ********.
2 Golgari Charms are a must nowadays if you seriously want to win touranaments where half of the people bring in True Name Nemesis against you.
Usea and why you should play at least 2: I don't like Usea at all and most of the time it feels like a basic island which is targetable by wasteland.black mana is useful in g1and totally neccesary in g2 against uwr delver and such decks (read above)these decks run also a couple of wastelands and a bunch of removal for our shamans,so we cannot afford to let golgari charm become a dead card because of 1 wasteland and 1-2 removal for our mana-elves.
Gsz: gsz is a card i would only run if i really want to have more(!) than 4 copies of a specific green creature in my deck.
If you start building your list like 4 delver + 3 of each green guy +1 gsz you are probably a bit lazy to analyze the metagame because each of these 3 guys has it's personal strengths and instead you could run 4 copies of the most important one.
In the past the creature i searched up the most was nimble mongoose by far.
(Finally gsz doesn't turn up ******** tormod :D )
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Went 1-2 in my local store yesterday with the previously posted list.
Game 1 - Mirror match!
First match we both lay down delver, he counters my nimble and is a bit faster then me.
Second match, he suddenly plays a TNN - i was so unprepared for THAT thing to see, acutally expected other things. Drew nothing to get rid of that bad guy.
0-1
Game 2 - Pox.
I literally was Bad Luck Brian there. Drew only Lands both games, Delver never flipped, didn't hit ***** with Mongoose,
couldn't counter/get rid of Lilly - WHAT?
0-2
Game 3 - Death and Taxes.
bUrg was shining here! Dazed his Turn 1 Vial, Bolted mother, snared his Stoneforge - Delver and Mongoose stomping him down.
Second match he lands a Rest in Peace, which keeps my Mongoose to small and my Delver caught a sword.
Third game was almost exact the same as the first - let him play his mother, dazed his stoneforge, bolted a Crusader while stifling his mom.
1-2
Conclusion:
I will upgrade to 3 Snares, cutting the last Pierce. Also, Thoughtseize will get replaced with a Library and another Decay/Dismember (not too sure yet, ill test it).
Even if i wasn't THAT succesful, it was incredibly fun to play. I LOVE this deck!
The fun and the love for the deck are the most important things. Keep it up ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kryllex
weekly Legacy @ Legends 17 Players
I bring my good friend HeisenbUrg. (No goose)
HeisenbUrg
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
SB
2 Golgari Charm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flustestorm
1 Ancient grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Forked Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam
1 Graftdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezwa's Jitte
Round 1
I get a bye so I survey the room and see 4+ American Delver, Elves, 2x Dredge, Dead Guy, Show and Tell, Jund, Affinity, 12 post, Esper Stoneblade, Reanimator, Metal Worker probably something I'm forgetting.
1-0
Round 2 vs American Delver
Game 1, (OTP) fetch DRS. My opponent FOWs, Hmmm, my opponent must have no removal in hand and a slower hand. I FOW back. He plays a land and ponders and passes. Hmm looks like I was right. Untap, brainstorm, play a fetch. I snare my opponents stoneforge. Double Daze on my Tarmogoyf means it safe to play out my TNN with no counter back up. He floods out and I draw gas
Game 2
Turn Opponent plays a land and passes, I turn 1 Delver and have the good tempo plan. I have lots of blue card to defend. Game ends with double bolts in response to my opponent fetching.
2-0/2-0
Round 3 vs Metal Worker
Game 1. (OTP) snare the chalice for 1, followed by turn 2 delver. wastelands and I stop his ramp. I daze his next chalice. Eventually metal worker and Forgemaster join his side. EOT, I bolt his metal worker. In response he sacs his only 3 artifacts: metalworker, forgemaster, darksteel cidatel. I stifle, he never recovers.
Game 2. He resolves chalice and we make a good battle with true name and goyf doing work. eventually he gets a blightsteel, i have no outs.
Game 3. this grindy match: me delver, him wormcoil, me truename nemesis, him saundering titan that blows up my lands, he swings with his team, i chump wurmcoil with TNN, and eat 7 off the titan to put me at 2. He's at 5 life vs delver and TNN, so I untap and swing.
2-1/3-0
Round 3 vs Dredge (opponent and I know each other)
Game 1/Game 2 I forget which was which. One game I won with delver and drs, and one game I lose to zombies and griselbrand.
Game 3 This is the grindiest of matches, I'm taking a beating. i find a surgical for his bridges. My opponent is at near full life with a 9/9 grave troll VS me at 4 life. I have an insect and 4/5 goyf. The next few turns are my opponent swinging with 9/9 gravetroll and me chump blocking and digging for blockers with Sylvan Library. chump block with delver, swing back with goyf, chump block with shaman, swing back with goyf, chump block with delver swing back with goyf. My goyf gets my opponent down to 3 life. fetching and forcing brings my life to 2. EOT my turn, My opponent nature's claims my cage brings me to 6 life, he gets a Ichorid during upkeep, a narcomeba off a dredge. Ichorid and 9/9 troll attack. Shaman chumps Troll, I take 3 from Ichorid and go down to 3 life. He has a narcomeba on defence to block my goyf. I go down to 3. Untap with library, I can only draw 1 card so I take the ponder. I ponder and find bolt FTW.
2-1/4-0
I come 1st for a tidy $50, prizes to top 5
Notes:
-Made a bonehead move naming metal worker with pithing needle.
-never got to play artifact mutation.
-I think i need to add a another piece of removal in the board like a Pulse, chain lighting or terminate.
HeisebUrg record 29-5
NB Breaking Bad won a Golden Globe yesterday for Best TV Drama and Bryan Cranston won for Best TV Drama Actor
Did you play that list again or did you cut the 2 Thoughtseize?
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
-2 Thoughtseize, -1 Chain LightningQuote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
+3 Spell Snare.
I'll edit my post to include my 75
I like your current list! How good feel the 2 TNN Mainboard for you? Did you ever miss Mongoose? And how important was TNN (or how many games steal TNN where Goose would sucked).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
TNN is huge for me. Against Wurmcoil Engine he was a hero in blocking. Against UWR I was able to plan my lines of play knowing my opponent couldn't block. If I ripped TNN against dredge, I could have blocked a 9/9 troll infinitely. I get to run a Jitte in the sb without having to lament about not being able to equip a goose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
I really don't miss goose at all. This is the creature package I have been most successful with.
@Tormod:
Can you tell me which are the most popular Decks in your Metagame?
And how often do you board the Sylvan Library? I think this card is unnecessary if not played in the MD?! Can you tell me your experiences of placing the Library in the SB?
@all:
In general i made thought about playing 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder and 1 Sylvan Library in the MD. Ainīt 9 Cantrips too much? What about to cut 1 Ponder? Do we realy need the 9 Cantrips?
Best Regards
Moe
Thanks for your tournament report Tormod :)
4 Ponders are a must as they are very important. You can search immediately for answers, flip Delver more consistently and so on. Library is only for grindy matchups and combo and shows its value long term. That is why 4 Brainstorms and 4 Ponders are not debatable. The 9th cantrip in the form of Library is nice but not a must.
The Toronto meta game is very rich with tier 1 and tier 2 and diverse strategies as well as less commons strategies. Legacy is very popular in my area I have 2 weekly events Wednesday and Sundays. There is 3 larger pot events spread out amongst the shops in my areas on Saturdays. Based on the last event UWR is the most popular right now. Seems like the last "winning decklist" is ever present. Basically you have to be ready for everything if you want to do well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moerocknroll
I bring the Sylvan Library in against control match ups or any match up where its going to be grindy where the late game comes down to the quality of top decks. I actually sideboard out a Ponder when I bring in Library. I have been considering moving the library to md.