Printable View
I'm looking for a stock list, but every single one I saw so far is different from the others. Spirits, trinispheres, non-eldrazi creatures... seems there are so many flex slots that the deck doesn´t appear to have a well defined core.
Could anyone post what a "stock list" would look like, please?
As you already found out, it doesn't even exist. People play different lists because it's a new deck and finding the optimal iterations takes time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugus32
If you want colorless, try the recent scg top8 lists. If you want to splash, look around magic online for successful lists.
This is the reason I don't think the deck is ready for the Established forum. Numbers what they are, I don't think my views will matter in a month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugus32
The problem is, there is no stock list. This has been bugging me since I first heard about the deck and decided to put it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugus32
I cant tell you how many iteration of this deck I have saved on MTGO and how many times I have shuffled cards in and out of the paper version. However, I may pick up the last few cards online to just jam games on MTGO until I find something I really like as it may be a month or so before a "stock list" for anyone one of the 3 versions is agreed upon.
I think this is about as stock as the colorless eldrazi list gets:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
2 Flex Slots (Serum Powder, Spirit Guide, Mox Diamond, Matter Reshaper, Revoker, extra Warping Wail, Coercive Portal or some other off-beat card.)
--
Factory vs Wasteland is debatable, but if the plan is aggro I vote for Factory. You could go with 23 lands, but I think 24 is more safe.
Wasteland has been way more popular than Mishra's factory though, at least in the decks that have been doing very well in the last few weeks. Gerry T talks about that in his article at SCG as well.
I also don't know if 4 Thorns are correct. Weapons main deck or side? I also wouldn't play less than 24 lands, 25 is even debatable IMO. Still a lot of questions on how the optimal deck is and I still believe that the Reshaper is better than the Revoker (but I know I'm in the minority).
Really great to see a deck in the Developmental section having such traction though :) Awesome!
Factory could be replaced for wasteland if u think its really unmissable (although i think it shouldnt be used proactively, only strategically). What is stock isnt necrssarily optimal, its just the informally agreed upon / concensus framework. The list should be shaved to perfection over time, but that requires more tournaments and more people trying out things. For now, i think the colorless build is close enough to a stock list though. Barook's gw build could be used as the stock colored list. Aside of those builds the other colored lists are too experimental to be called stock as of now imo
The experimental splashes include:
UR eldrazi aggro
RG eldrazi
Leyline Processors
UW/UWg drowner displacer eldrazi
I'd say that 4 Wastelands are "stock". The 4 Wasteland lists have been way more successful than any other version thus far.
If you're looking for a "stock" list:
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
3 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
The list is still in flux and I'm kinda disatisfied with it because it lacks space for City of Traitors (unless you want to sacrifice utility in form of Wasteland/Factory). Don't get me wrong, I like World Breaker and I'm a firm believer of Displacer, but I wouldn't recommend my current version in the current metagame. A Mono C version splashing white for Displacer might be better right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
If Gerry T. came to the same conclusion about 2 Karakas MD/1 SB, that's reassuring. What was his exact reason to shit on Mox Diamond, though?
Edit: I also wonder about the viability of Lotus Petal in the versions running white in place of the Spirit Guides. Anti-synergy with Thorn post-T1 might hamper it somewhat, though.
He didn't care for the awkward spots that diamond puts you in, and that mostly it was just fast mana that dropped a lock t1 or fought off a daze. Guides do a better job at fighting daze because you force them to burn a daze that otherwise they may keep to power a FoW. Also them popping a daze forces them to return a land and have fewer resources for a brainstorm. Petal is a strictly worse guide and a worse diamond by those metrics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I didn't read the entire thread, but anyone had considered Tangle Wire as additional lock piece?
Does anyone have a link to a leyline processor list? Is that maindecking Leyline of the Void? If so, color me intrigued. I could see it being possible in a build with Urborg. Of course, that also makes me want to throw in Helm, cause why not. Feel like that's trading the whole "most consistent stompy deck" back into MullIntoOblivion.dec though.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Still. I just played a match online and managed to get both Leyline and Chalice=1 turn 1 against Reanimator. Scoop.
I run 2-3. They seem better than the last thorn, or more Trinispheres. It can help get me back in the game against early delvers on the draw, or stall some boards long enough for Endbringer mana to come in and take over the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
As for Displacer, my opinion on the matter (since several people commented on it about asking me and the primer coming up, so maybe some information could be recycled):
Displacer requires white to cast it, which requires additional white sources aside from Cavern, but imho, it's worth the investment since it's probably the best Eldrazi you can run after TKS (yes, stronger than Smasher, which would be third place in that case).
A little overview what it does and where he does it:
- Miracles: Hardly relevant. Sometimes the combo with TKS to stop Miracle triggers could come up, but more often than not, either piece is killed by a hail of StP or gets Terminus'ed before relevant.
- Shardless BUG: Stops Goyf and Creeping Tar Pit. Not so hot against Baleful Strix, though. Dies to Bolt.
- Grixis Delver: Can hardly keep up with their token generation. Does nothing against TNN if they run it. Stops Gurmag and Delver.
- Mirror: Decent at stopping oppossing Eldrazi.
- Storm: Does nothing other than beat
- Lands: Your prime weapon and best bet to stop Marit Lage. Karakas is only so-so between Wasteland and Port.
- Sneak and Show: Excellent card - makes the match significantly easier
- Reanimator: Good at stopping Griselbee. But they have targets that can cause you problems, like Grave Titan, Jin Gitaxis or Tidesprout Tyrant.
- Dredge: Mediocre. Can kill a token or two or stop an Ichorid from attacking. Nothing amazing.
- D&T: Prime kill target for them. Stops their flyers, kills Batterskull tokens and makes their equipment a waste of mana and tempo.
- Infect: Excellent board control card which can single-handely win the game for you.
That's probably the most important stuff, with some decks having overlap (e.g. Goyf and Delver in BUG Delver). Or course it would get even better with SB Containment Priest, but the white requirement for Priest is probably too high if you want to go with a more streamlined, colorless version splashing for Displacer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Llanowar Wastes
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Reality Smasher
3 Blight Herder
1 World Breaker
3 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
SB:
Gemstone Cavern, Helm of Obedience, Leyline of Sanctity
Good BG sideboard cards
Could someone post Gerry T's updated list? I'm eager to see it.
The issue with Tangle Wire @Fuzzy is that the deck secretly struggles to jump from 2 non-eldrazi mana to 3 and [especially] 4 non-eldrazi mana. For most win % you're looking for repeatable lock piece plays (playing through discard and/or counterspells) starting on your first turn. Secondarily you're looking for non-overlapping lock pieces that let you deploy eldrazi (mainly TKS) - this is why sphere, 3-ball, tangle wire are best left out. Not only will these stunt your clock, they also all run into thorn - and somewhere in there a city is probably dying. The optimal package right now looks like Chalice/Thorn/Metamorph/Revoker, which (aside from repeat thorns) don't hit each other. The weakness of this package are enemy 2-drop creatures (pyro/goyf/SFM), and this is probably the most important issue for colorless eldrazi to overcome.
Metamorph still costs at least 3 mana. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
What's the current list you're on, Fox?
Edit: Also, wouldn't Lodestone Golem slot better into your deck (probably for Endless One) when you already run Thorn and Metamorph?
Revokers are the only non Eldrazi I'm playing, and I think they're better off in the sideboard. Otherwise you're just not getting full value from your manabase and that's a big part of what makes the deck consistent.
How is everyone handling True-Name Nemesis?
TNN has been a major thorn in my side, especially with equipment.
Ratchet Bomb is too slow. All is Dust gets countered.
Thoughts?
I considered E. Bridge, but that stalls us too, unless we want to Endbringer.