[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Kessig Wolf Run + Treetop Village + Primeval Titan. Versus fair.dec: At first glance it looks solid, but why do i want more beaters when i already have beaters? The thing i want is utility. PrimeTime could deliver utility in the form of fetching more Groves/Red mana, or the Two Towers, but often at that point i already have 6-7 lands. What i want to add to the deck is utility to achieve full board control. A Kessig Wolf Run to have 8/4 Thrun with Trample that wins the game when a 4/4 Thrun cannot is not what i am trying to achieve with the deck. The real question for me is: why is a 4/4 Thrun not winning the game and how do i solve that situation?

Volrath's Stronghold can keep you in the game while recurring stuff like DRS, Thragtusk or Eternal Witness, which eventually leads to a board state where your opponent can't possibly win from. We could replace Phyrexian Tower for Treetop Village. While i can see Treetop function in the deck, the thing that sometimes is relevant vs combo is Phyrexian Tower. Doing the ultimate T1 Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize/REB, into T2 Tower, Veteran Explorer, Slaughter Games happens.

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For why I want more beaters: To have redundancy with them while not having to rely on my Graveyard. I find RiP/Leyline of the Void being boarded against me too often with PFire Nic Fit to rely on my yard for having recurring threats. Punishing Nic Fit is arguably the best version to run Stronghold in, that's true, but it's also the version against which people ar most likely to board in their Grave Hate. At least there's the Fire to stop those annoying Deathrites from messing around with the Stronghold's plans.

I see your arguments about just using the Two Towers, maybe it's just my meta being different for having much more grave hate.
For the reason to have those good starts against Combo you mentioned, I would never even dare to cut Phyrexian Tower. Treetop is in the slot of the 7th basic land, not in the slot of the Tower.
It's just the Stronghold that I don't see as the most reliable thing in the world, that's why I personally like Wolf Run over it. It's not dependent on having a yard, it just beefs up a creature.

A small sidenote: In an earlier Version I played of Punishing Nic Fit (and wouldn't recommend anymore, as it was a honest mistake) I found myself killing enemies with Dryad Arbor + Wolf Run frequently, as it manages to catch the opponents off-guard quite often and is immune against Decay. But as my experience with Arbor in Nic Fit wet, I don't like it in this Deck anymore. Arbor was simply the first step in the experiment if Manlands + Wolf Run was a good enough plan to give Prime Time the "Boom!" effect I wanted him to have.

As far as creatures that 2-for-1 the Opponents are concerned, has Voice of Resurgence been considered?

Also, I can only emphasis how much I like Grave Titan (I have tested the GBW and the 4-Color Version). I also run Baneslayer Angel, which every time I could find and resolve it, has been great.

Since I am not the most experienced pilot of the deck (at all actually), I cannot figure out if i want PWs and if so, which ones (Lili? Elspeth? Garruk?)

I end up losing a fair amount of games versus blue decks.

So far, I avoided Phyrexian Tower.

For anyone that is looking for an updated ScapeWish build:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Green Suns Zenith
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
1 Scapeshift
1 Diabloic Edict

3 Abrupt Decay

4 Senseis Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deeds

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badland
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard:
1 Reanimate
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Ruination (I have lots of 12post in my meta)
3 Slaughter Games
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Flex Spots (EDIT: I usually do 1 Mealstrom Pulse and 1 Innocent Blood)

After some "rigorous" testing on Cockatrice, I think Jund with Fires has to be on its own, and Junk CAN splash red. I think the level of greed to have P. Fires and white cards strains the manabase just a bit too far.

I think two Taigas is an easy solution to fixing the problems. Fires isn't REALLY needed in the Junk build as I've found in testing, so why bother? I think Jund Fit or Jund would be an excellent choice right now, since Slaughter Games is a real piece of tech.

I'm currently going to test:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Siege Rhino
1 Scavenging Ooze
13

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
11

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
15

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Badlands (or Taiga, haven't tested enough)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
22

//Board

2 Slaughter Games
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke

The list eschews the normal Surgical Extraction slots, but I think graveyard decks aren't the best right now. I think Miracles and Omni are the top dogs, with various Blade and Delver decks fighting for second place. I think Combo is similarly positioned, but it has to compete with two VERY heavy counter decks. I think this sideboard allows you to combo Omni and Miracles VERY heavily (I mean, +2 Choke, +2 Teeg, +3 REB, +2 SG, +2 Grip against Miracles seems tough to beat, and similarly for OmniTell).

This is what I'll be testing going into Prague Eternal. I've got a BBE Jund list that is similarly equipped with REB, Choke, and such, as well as a Junk Blade list that I'm tinkering with.

-Matt

I was poking around on Gatherer and I saw this guy:

Elderwood Scion
3GW
Creature — Elemental
Trample, lifelink
Spells you cast that target Elderwood Scion cost 2 less to cast.
Spells your opponents cast that target Elderwood Scion cost 2 more to cast.
Image for reference

What do our junk players think about this? I know its SORTA like Rhino, and I often use Rhino to gain life in matches where life matters, but without something like Recurring Nightmare, it happens only once. Perhaps something with consistent lifelink would be good? The new Dromoka is sorta like that too. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Dzogchen

I was poking around on Gatherer and I saw this guy:

Elderwood Scion
3GW
Creature — Elemental
Trample, lifelink
Spells you cast that target Elderwood Scion cost 2 less to cast.
Spells your opponents cast that target Elderwood Scion cost 2 more to cast.
Image for reference

What do our junk players think about this? I know its SORTA like Rhino, and I often use Rhino to gain life in matches where life matters, but without something like Recurring Nightmare, it happens only once. Perhaps something with consistent lifelink would be good? The new Dromoka is sorta like that too. Thoughts?

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Dragonlord Dromoka is IMHO plain better.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Dragonlord Dromoka is IMHO plain better.

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Even then i guess that having Siege Rhino plus Sigarda should be enough. Depending on your exact build you could choose to go Dragonlord Dromoka or Sun Titan or Primeval Titan. Also Baneslyer Angel seems to be impressive aswell.

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Originally Posted by sdematt

After some "rigorous" testing on Cockatrice, I think Jund with Fires has to be on its own, and Junk CAN splash red. I think the level of greed to have P. Fires and white cards strains the manabase just a bit too far.

-Matt

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I came to the same conclusion.
4 color Fit is doable, but you lose a lot of consistency.

Here are my latest Nic Fit lists:

JUNK Fit:


1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
1 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs

1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer

3 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares

1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 1 Stain the Mind
SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Thoughtseize


SB is still under quite a lot of testing, especially against combo decks.
Main deck is pretty set in stone, and I can tell you Dromoka has proven to be a hell of a card.


BUG Fit


1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Pernicious Deed

1 Dimir Charm
1 Golgari Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cunning Wish
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

1 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Ponder

SB: 1 Empty the Pits
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Beast Within
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Crypt Incursion
SB: 1 Hatred
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Consume the Meek
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay


I would not recommend this deck to anyone starting playing Nic Fit. But I think it has a good 50/50 against all the deck to beat. There is no fancy monsters here, just value cards and underrated ones. Yet it has proven to be a real contender any time I went to a local tournament.

Scape Fit


1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Forest
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs

1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Wood Elves
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Veteran Explorer

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Abrupt Decay

1 Scapeshift
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy


It's been 3 months since I worked on this list. Titania is a powerhouse but 1 scape MD has yet to prove that it is enough. The deck is less on the combo finish to better fight combo strategies but I'm far from sure that it is the way to go. I invite anyone who wants to play Scape to use a more up-to-date list or a list that has proven any good results in local tournament. The only thing I'm pretty set about is that REB effects are really really poor in this deck (SB).

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Even then i guess that having Siege Rhino plus Sigarda should be enough. Depending on your exact build you could choose to go Dragonlord Dromoka or Sun Titan or Primeval Titan. Also Baneslyer Angel seems to be impressive aswell.

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As far as I am concerned, I did a lot (and by a lot I mean TONS) of test with Rhino in a Nic Fit shell.

The card is nice and all. But, and there is a "but", I have always found the card to be lacking in terms of "true" power.
In a control shell such as most Nic Fit list, you want a bomb/or a strong ETB effect. Rhino is not a bomb and its ETB effect is not stong enough in a control shell.
Too many times against any BUG deck I have faced 5/6 or 6/7 Goyf and Rhino was just there to block and die...

If you want to play Rhino, I think you have to build your deck around the say card. A CMC 4 as top of your curve is a good start but you would need to throw in a couple of equipment and play kind of a Junk Blade. This build might be a serious contender but I don't think a Nic Fit shell is looking for a midrange approach.
If I want to play a midrange Nic Fit, I would play a Blade Birthing Pod based deck as the one suggested by Qweerios months ago with which I won a local tournament. But I wouldn't throw in there a Quad Rhino strategy.

Rhino is a very fine card but the more I have played with the more I think its place is in a "Rock" strategy.

Went 4-3 in our free local Beta Bayou tournament today. I played junk. I saw at least 2 other nic fitters there, one on BUG, one on scapewish.

Beat Storm in 3. Teeg with Fire and Ice is a house.
Lost to RUG Delver in 2. Got stifled off of 2 explorer triggers
Beat 12 post in 2 somehow. Maindeck Mindcensor was silly.
Lost to Punishing Jund in 3. He had a sick BBE into hymn that made me discard a top and rhino. I then bricked forever on action with a top out.
Beat burn in 2.
Beat monoblack depths in 2.
And lost to elves in 2. I hate that deck.

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Went 4-3 in our free local Beta Bayou tournament today. I played junk. I saw at least 2 other nic fitters there, one on BUG, one on scapewish.

Beat Storm in 3. Teeg with Fire and Ice is a house.
Lost to RUG Delver in 2. Got stifled off of 2 explorer triggers
Beat 12 post in 2 somehow. Maindeck Mindcensor was silly.
Lost to Punishing Jund in 3. He had a sick BBE into hymn that made me discard a top and rhino. I then bricked forever on action with a top out.
Beat burn in 2.
Beat monoblack depths in 2.
And lost to elves in 2. I hate that deck.

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That's really weird. You beat all the bad matchups and lost to the good ones, lol.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

That's really weird. You beat all the bad matchups and lost to the good ones, lol.

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I dunno. I always seem to have trouble with elves for some damn reason.

Been thinking on the bomb for jund topic and im wondering if stormbreath dragon is better in application then on paper. Realistically it dodges most removal in the format and is a hasted evasive beater. It lacks in the etb department but I thought id throw it out there. Feels low impact but it might be a sleeper.

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

I dunno. I always seem to have trouble with elves for some damn reason.

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Yeah, I meant besides elves. Should've clarified that -- it's winnable, but definitely bad.

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

Been thinking on the bomb for jund topic and im wondering if stormbreath dragon is better in application then on paper. Realistically it dodges most removal in the format and is a hasted evasive beater. It lacks in the etb department but I thought id throw it out there. Feels low impact but it might be a sleeper.

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I've run Stormbreath in Scapewish before and not been disappointed with the card. It's very, very good against miracles, which I believe means it's good right now from what little I know of the current metagame.

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

Been thinking on the bomb for jund topic and im wondering if stormbreath dragon is better in application then on paper. Realistically it dodges most removal in the format and is a hasted evasive beater. It lacks in the etb department but I thought id throw it out there. Feels low impact but it might be a sleeper.

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Same here, on the regards of bombs in JUND i have ordered 2 Stormbreath Dragon, 1 Grave Titan and 1 Raging Ravine. All in Japanese to match the rest of my deck :-p First i will test 2 Stormbreath Dragon in the place of 1 PrimeTime and 1 something, probably instead of 1 Liliana. Not sure yet. Then i will take it from there and mix some of the numbers. Not only is Stormbreath solid against Miracles, but basicly any deck running white with Swords to Plowshares.
On a side note: i hate to see non green creatures in the deck and wished for something big and that adds utility that synergiezes with the decks main strategy.

Stormbreath could easily fill the role of Siege Rhino in the Jund builds as your 4-of beater. Realistically, you may want to run 4 just so you see him since you can't GSZ him. Pro white and haste are definitely a plus. Like this maybe?

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Golgari Charm
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Stormbreath Dragon

SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Choke
SB: 1 Golgari Charm


-Matt

I really want a thragtusk in that last list maybe over a thrun the huntmaster or a stormbreath.

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

I really want a thragtusk in that last list maybe over a thrun the huntmaster or a stormbreath.

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Agreed with Thragtusk. The card has pulled me out of the fire pretty often, stabilizing my life points while gaining control of the boardstate. Running a single Huntmaster and a single Thrun should be fine. With non green creatures SDT becomes more important, so perhaps i would like the add a 4th copy. And is running 3 GSZ sufficient? Also Courser of Kruphix goes really well with SDT, speeding up things quite a bit.

I was at the same tourney as Jbone. I went 5-0 into double draw into the top 8. Then get blown out in 3 games by Mud..... stole game 1 off turn 3 Jace. The rest of the top 8 was 2 bug delver, 2 mentor, mono-red sneak, miracles. Would have been more than happpy to play any of those decks.

been playing some games with stormbreath in that list on mtgo so far. this morning. hes felt pretty great so far.. although out of 4 games so far I keep getting them in my opening hand.. which is never what i want. One game I had 1 in hand.. and first draw was another... but what can ya do.


I've had to board them out alot but thats only because of the matchups ive been getting.

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Originally Posted by Myelectronicdays

been playing some games with stormbreath in that list on mtgo so far. this morning. hes felt pretty great so far.. although out of 4 games so far I keep getting them in my opening hand.. which is never what i want. One game I had 1 in hand.. and first draw was another... but what can ya do.


I've had to board them out alot but thats only because of the matchups ive been getting.

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Did you run 2 or 3? In what MU's did they show up?

Currently i think 2 is the correct number. You really want to see him, but you don't want them to clog up. So for that reason i am considering to go 4 SDT and 3 GSZ so i have more "chance" to have influence on what to draw and what not. Maybe going to 3 GSZ is the wrong call. But i am not sure what to cut. And somehow Liliana hasn't been performing that well. Either she shows up to late or gets removed or doesnt make any impact on the board whereas Vraska has been a freaky bitch when she showed up. I am just not comfortable of removing Liliana maindeck.

2 will be fine. I've run a pair of a nongreen very-good-card multiple times...usually in white variants and usually either Baneslayer or Thune. At 2 Stormbreaths with 3 Tops and sufficient shuffles, you are almost guaranteed to see 1 per medium-short game and to see both over a medium-long game, which is basically what you want. If you run any more, or up the number of Tops, you're going to start clogging on those cards, respectively.

Thragtusk is still correct to run if you're not running gratuitous amounts of rhino and/or Obstinate Baloth.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Did you run 2 or 3? In what MU's did they show up?

Currently i think 2 is the correct number. You really want to see him, but you don't want them to clog up. So for that reason i am considering to go 4 SDT and 3 GSZ so i have more "chance" to have influence on what to draw and what not. Maybe going to 3 GSZ is the wrong call. But i am not sure what to cut. And somehow Liliana hasn't been performing that well. Either she shows up to late or gets removed or doesnt make any impact on the board whereas Vraska has been a freaky bitch when she showed up. I am just not comfortable of removing Liliana maindeck.

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i agree on the number. going to play some more games at lunch today.. but 3 was too much.. going to go down to 2. I played UR delver twice, which he got boarded out. Played against the rock once (which is rare for me on mtgo to see), in which he was awesome.

Interesting to see that take on liliana.. she eats a bolt, or decay or a force every game.. but i guess it also shows how threatening she can be also. I'd feel wierd taking any out..

Seriously Stormbreath dragon in a Jund list ?

Pro-white is a thing, but still this card does not provide any card advantage nor any ETB effect.

If you are looking for a huge strike, I would look into Demigod of Revenge, first.

This kind of deck might be able to put a very very "weird" pressure on your opponent.

"I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord"

Revenge Fit by Ralf

1 Mountain
2 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant catacombs
2 Bloodstained mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Badland
3 Taiga

3 Veteran explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
4 Demigod or Revenge

3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning bolt

3 Pernicious deed

3 Sensei's divining top

2 Kolaghan's command
4 Cabal therapy
3 Green Sun Zenith


SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Blood moon
SB: 1 Golgari charm
SB: 1 Toxic deluge
SB: 3 Slaughter games
SB: 2 Krosan grip

I was going to note that getting away with Demigod in a world in which Deathrite Shaman is not banned is excessively greedy, but you MIGHT be able to get away with it. If Miracles (and Omni) are big right now, Deathrite is probably in remission overall, and you do have 9 spot removal + deeds and lilianas that can get rid of one. Might actually work, dunno.

Stormbreath is not as bad as you think it is, though. It's kind of a red Thrun. It's immune to StP, it's immune to Decay, it's bigger than Lightning Bolt. It's very effective at dealing with Jaces, even through any stray angel tokens, and it's very real for us to be able to monstrous it. Granted, it doesn't create any card advantage -- but it's very effective at actually killing people.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Seriously Stormbreath dragon in a Jund list ?
..
This kind of deck might be able to put a very very "weird" pressure on your opponent.
..
4 Lightning bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command

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Playing 4 demands sacrificing flexibility/adaptability against varies MU's aswell. Also Lightning Bolt? That's like running Tarmogoyf in NicFit.
Kolaghan's Command looks interesting, any experience with the card?

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Originally Posted by Myelectronicdays

i agree on the number. going to play some more games at lunch today.. but 3 was too much.. going to go down to 2. I played UR delver twice, which he got boarded out. Played against the rock once (which is rare for me on mtgo to see), in which he was awesome.

Interesting to see that take on liliana.. she eats a bolt, or decay or a force every game.. but i guess it also shows how threatening she can be also. I'd feel wierd taking any out..

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I would def try one against UR Delver. 4/4, blocks delver and eats bolt (not at the same time tho).
To me it is not so much a problem that Liliana gets removed, it is more that if she lives she doesnt add to much value.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Playing 4 demands sacrificing flexibility/adaptability against varies MU's aswell. Also Lightning Bolt? That's like running Tarmogoyf in NicFit.
Kolaghan's Command looks interesting, any experience with the card?

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Strongly disagree with the Bolt - Goyf comparison. Lightning Bolt is more analogous to Swords or Path if anything, and both of those cards are very playable. Bolt is a very efficient removal spell that hits exactly when you need it to, but is flexible and can be used as reach if needed as well. This is even more true in a theoretical Demigod shell which would be terrified of Deathrite Shaman. Having an immediate, turn 1 answer to Deathrite coming down is very valuable.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Strongly disagree with the Bolt - Goyf comparison. Lightning Bolt is more analogous to Swords or Path if anything, and both of those cards are very playable. Bolt is a very efficient removal spell that hits exactly when you need it to, but is flexible and can be used as reach if needed as well. This is even more true in a theoretical Demigod shell which would be terrified of Deathrite Shaman. Having an immediate, turn 1 answer to Deathrite coming down is very valuable.

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Arian has perfectly summed it up.

I might have been a bit overwhelmed by "joy" and I guess you could be perfectly fine with only 3 Demigods.
Haste, hits for 5 (killing a Jace in one blow is no Joke at all) and, at least, is not a dead card to Liliana's +1 effect nor to opponent's discard (HTT namely).

Not to mention, its effect triggers on "cast" so f.ck you counterspell & FOW.

Kolaghan's command seems to have been designed for Jund Fit:
3 CMC and every choice can "fit" in our deck, what should we ask for more ?

The sideboard options are also great.
With bolt instead of P.fire, you can now play "blood moon" which answers a lot of our bad matchups.

PS: Ah and I would love seeing an opponent siding gravehate against me to deal with the demigods

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Arian has perfectly summed it up.

I might have been a bit overwhelmed by "joy" and I guess you could be perfectly fine with only 3 Demigods.
Haste, hits for 5 (killing a Jace in one blow is no Joke at all) and, at least, is not a dead card to Liliana's +1 effect.

Not to mention, its effect triggers on "cast" so f.ck you counterspell & FOW.

Kolaghan's command seems to have been designed for Jund Fit:
3 CMC and every choice can "fit" in our deck, what should we ask for more ?

The sideboard options are also great.
With bolt instead of P.fire, you can now play "blood moon" which answers a lot of our bad matchups.

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Still a t2 punishing fire on DRS would do the trick to. I feel that Punishing Fires in NicFit fits better then lighting bolt. While pfire can still be "weaker" vs DRS it is a nightmare vs most creature decks and NicFit ramps into a lot of mana giving pfire more reach when going in for the long game. Offcourser this might not be true when focussing on Demigod making bolt the better choice.

Dont we all get overwhelmed with joy at some point talking about crazy tech in NicFit ;-p

Blood Moon is a strong argument there. Depths/Post based deck can be a nightmare for us.

About Command, good point there. Will try it at some point. Have to much to test currently lol. And i just ordered cards, lol again.

Maybe Stormbreath is fine, but I still think it's worth trying. I mean, testing will flesh out if it is good enough or not.

You usually want Blood Moon vs decks that don't care about Punishing Fires, so it's more or less available regardless of build. And in the matchups where you want both, P.Fires isn't that much worse than a Bolt.
On that topic I tried to maindeck Burning Wish in a Punishing Fit list with Ruination in the sideboard and got a lucky 2-0 against a white-green Cloudpost.

So I was reading over the past few pages of the thread. I do not see much BUG list discussion. I am actually really surprised, considering most Nicfit lists run multiple pieces that vary wildly in value depending on matchup, Bstorm (and I am on 2 ponder) better at setting that up than even top. You also get access to Jace, Snap, and Dig. All of which are amazing and probably better than a lot of the GSZ targets you are grabbing. Not to say that it is the only way to go for sure but I am wondering why the lack of interest.

Uncertain why that is. I feel like someone JUST posted a list with Cunning Wish and such.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

So I was reading over the past few pages of the thread. I do not see much BUG list discussion. I am actually really surprised, considering most Nicfit lists run multiple pieces that vary wildly in value depending on matchup, Bstorm (and I am on 2 ponder) better at setting that up than even top. You also get access to Jace, Snap, and Dig. All of which are amazing and probably better than a lot of the GSZ targets you are grabbing. Not to say that it is the only way to go for sure but I am wondering why the lack of interest.

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Well, I worked hard on my BUG Wish Fit list but as there is no fancy monster in (and I guess like in yours) it didn't get a lot of discussion.

This should not prevent us from playing it, anyway.

I also did mention that, IMHO, it is certainly at least and maybe even more competitive right now than any other Nic Fit variant.
As much as my list seems to be cute, it has been pretty well play-tested.

I have elected a "Wish" version for several reasons:
- I have played Scape during a long time (thanks to Arian) and have had a lot of success with Burning wish
- I wanted to play underrated cards such as "Empty the Pits" which could be considered as a black "entreat the angels" and the old "Hatred". All these cards cannot be played in multiple in the MD; so they had to be grabbed with Cunning Wish.

If you dig up a bit in the thread you should be able to find some tournament reports.
If you want to share your thoughts about your list or mine, go ahead.

I'll have a look at yours and shall make some comments.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post866754

Cheers,

As a sidenote: the activity here is awesome.

It sure is Bobmans! :)

@Ralf: Your list didn't go unnoticed, I immediately ordered a Hatred due to your elegant list but haven't gotten around to play it yet. Having two possible EOT I win wish targets seems awesome.

@Ralf: why no Dig Through Time in that list? I guess you just want to save all of your graveyard for Empty the Pits? Is that enough reason to not run a Dig?

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

I would def try one against UR Delver. 4/4, blocks delver and eats bolt (not at the same time tho).
To me it is not so much a problem that Liliana gets removed, it is more that if she lives she doesnt add to much value.

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Yeah wasnt sure if it was just to slow in the deck.. since that deck packs a punch fast.

So i actually played that demigod list at lunch... went 3-0 in tourney practice.. first match barely counted since it was some random awful brew. Then played vs esperblade and maverick.

I never got to recur one one.. since they got plowed! haha, i was like wow figures. But the big haste flyer was good in all matches again. I was still enjoying the 3 vet / 3 drs more though than the 4 - 1 split. DRS was mvp on the esper matchup by a mile..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myelectronicdays

Yeah wasnt sure if it was just to slow in the deck.. since that deck packs a punch fast.

So i actually played that demigod list at lunch... went 3-0 in tourney practice.. first match barely counted since it was some random awful brew. Then played vs esperblade and maverick.

I never got to recur one one.. since they got plowed! haha, i was like wow figures. But the big haste flyer was good in all matches again. I was still enjoying the 3 vet / 3 drs more though than the 4 - 1 split. DRS was mvp on the esper matchup by a mile..

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Yeah true, both UR Delver and Burn have a very high velocity. During Treasure Cruise i ran 3/4 Split in Vet/Drs. From start to midgame i was spending in everything to get lifegain on the floor. DRS was the first to catch burn. At least that was one burnspell less on the head. Thragtusk or Huntmaster usually showed up to create a gap. After that it was mostly a win on my side. Courser helped to. Have won more games then lost vs both. Anyway i switched back to 4/1 split because i was spending to much time on durdling with DRS instead of ramping into bombs. Still i think that a 3/3 split is bit akward. I'd rather go for 4/1, 4/2 or 3/4 to maximize on either veteran explorer or drs. Guess thats just preference.

Demigod doing good work huh, the question is, is his exotic recurring ability going to make a difference instead of going for Stormbreath's pro white..

well nic fit did good work. I couldn't tell how much of a real impact he had vs stormbreath.. in those games stormbreath would have been better. but I'll play more with it for sure. was a fun list.

that mana cost is the real deal also.. one miser forest on the board hoses casting him.