Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
If you want to run eternal scourge, you should run the serum powder build. That is a good combo. it gives you 8 or 9 card openers sometimes :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
If you want to run eternal scourge, you should run the serum powder build. That is a good combo. it gives you 8 or 9 card openers sometimes :)
Gratz! and thanks for your report too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armatas
I currently tinker a lot with Eldrazi & Taxes but i like your list, especially because it includes Ulamog 2.0 - the big bad boy was one of my first Eldrazi cards i purchased and i brewed a lot with him at the beginning of the "Eldrazi era".
I feel Oblivion Sower are the deal with him, i am not sold on every slot of your list, but overall i think Sower are good enough in a meta with other Eldrazi decks and the body is also bigger than most gofy/angler stuff which means that "trigger mimic" can also result into nice swings.
I would snap keep your core of the deck and add some personal adjustments like: Eldrazi Displacer (i love this card), Warping Wail, even a pair of Wastes and Karakas.
I think if i would not run "Eldrazi & Taxes" the next tournament i would try the following brew:
Land (26)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Mishra's Factory
2x City of Traitors
2x Karakas
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Wastes
Creature (25)
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Matter Reshaper
3x Oblivion Sower
2x Eldrazi Displacer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Artifact (5)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Instant (4)
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail
Sideboard (15)
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x All Is Dust
2x Endbringer
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Spatial Contortion
Only 6 lands for Displacer can be bad, but overall the build only contains 2 Displacer that can also land onto the field with Reshaper or enemy lands thanks to Oblivion Sower. The build should be able to answer any situation and it will not scoop to stuff like Blood Moon, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge or nasty creatures like Emrakul or Marit Lage.
Thanks. Actually I was incorrect, Eternal Scourge ended up not being better than Matter Reshaper or Phyrexian Revoker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
From that list you quoted, I have switched back over to playing Matter Reshaper instead.
-4 Eternal Scourge
+4 Matter Reshaper
In addition, I have since cut Conduit of Ruin for Oblivion Sower. I like both cards but with the increasing presence of the mirror match over the past few months and the decreasing number of fetchlands by comparsion, Sower has become much stronger than he was 6 months ago...
-4 Conduit of Ruin
-1 Breaker of Armies
-1 Eye of Ugin
+4 Oblivion Sower
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
That's pretty neat, never noticed that. Has this been tested and thrown out? I haven't seen any serum powder builds putting up numbers, is it just an inferior version of colorless eldrazi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
What would the build look like?
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Serum Powder
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
it is populair in my area.
I believe it is similar to the list above. but no factories but 4 wastelands. i dont know enough about it, but it will be testing it. THe serum powder also provides colorless mana if they have bloodmoon. But i think flipping reshaper into serum powder, is not impessive
I know the Cloudpost manabase is controversial.
If you're interested in going that route, I discuss the pros and cons of my most current recommended build here under the heading Oblivion Build... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post937327
Manabase
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Core Cards
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Flex Slots
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Trinisphere
2 All is Dust
1 Duplicant
But I wanted to post a quick summary of my explanation for going with a Post manabase...
The Post manabase is designed such that virtually every single land the deck plays produces 2 or more mana on average. It makes it much easier to recover if your Temple gets Wastelanded. It also lets you bait your opponent to use their first turn Wasteland on something scary like a Cloudpost if you open with a land rich hand. Depending on what your hand contains, this can slow your opponent down far more than it slows you down. Wasteland decks typically tend to be slower than Eldrazi decks, giving you enough time to make a recovery. Yes the deck can generate absurd amounts of mana by the midgame, but between Ulamog, Eye Activations, Conduit Tutoring Up Beefy Threats, All is Dust and Breaker of Armies, you can always find a way to utilize as much mana as you can get your hands on. This makes it very hard for fair decks like Miracles, Death and Taxes, Grixis and other Eldrazi Aggro decks to maintain a board advantage and win. Given the state of the current meta where these decks are dominating Top 8s, I really think this is a viable path to go.
x4 Ancient Tomb – Sol Land #1-4. Due to the more aggressive nature of this deck, it can cope with the lifeloss better than Turbo Eldrazi. The ability to power out a Chalice at 1 on turn 1 makes it an automatic 4 of in this list.
x3-4 City of Traitors – Sol Land #5-8. Since the deck functionally plays 24 Sol Lands, it just needs 3 of any combination of it’s 24 Sol Lands in the first 10 cards to be able to top off it’s mana curve and lay down Conduit of Ruins (which make the other threats in the deck even cheaper to cast). Due to requiring such a low number of lands to top off the curve, City of Traitors is almost always the perfect land to plop down turn 3.
x4 Eldrazi Temple – Sol Land #9-12. Temples can be played in multiples, is a great target for Vesuva, and given the high density of Eldrazi spells, it is bar none the best land in the deck. Play four copies, always.
x3-4 Eye of Ugin – Sol Land #13-16. Despite the fact that Eye is legendary, I play 3-4 due to the high density of Eldrazi spells in the maindeck and the fact that it's tutoring effect is so much more usable here thanks to Cloudpost mana. Yes you will have the occasional opening hand with 2 Eye of Ugins. But just as frequently, an Eye of Ugin in your opening hand pumps out multiple Eldrazi Mimics and Endless Ones turn one followed by a Thought-Knot Seer turn 2, a Conduit of Ruin turn 3 and an Ulamog turn 4. It’s a frequent Wasteland target so it’s not always bad to have in multiples.
x4 Cloudpost – Sol Land #17-20. Quite possibly the second best land in the deck. Even if you have only one post land in your opening hand, there are still 3 Cloudposts, 3 Glimmerposts, and 3 Vesuva left in the deck so the odds are fairly good that Cloudpost will be tapping for atleast 2 mana by midgame. Thus Cloudpost effectively functions as yet another Sol Land in this deck.
x3 Vesuva – Sol Land #21-23. Between 4 Cloudposts, 4 Eldrazi Temples and 4 Ancient Tomb, you’re never lacking for Vesuva targets, and this land essentially functions as Sol land 21-23 as a result. It can even gain you life by copying a Glimmerpost if you’re down to single digits. However, the fact that it usually comes into play tapped is enough to make it a 3 of. As a side note, it only comes into play tapped if you choose a land for it to copy. If you or your opponent have an Urborg or Moon effect out, you can opt to play Vesuva without copying another land thus having it come into play untapped, and then tap it to produce a B/R mana that same turn.
x1-2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth – As a 1-2 of in a build that plays 3-4 Eye of Ugin, this land functions as Sol Land #23-24 more often than not. The main reason the cards is worth playing is that it lets you tap Eye of Ugin to generate an additional B mana but it has the additional function of allowing Dismember to be castable without the lifeloss. It can also be very helpful if you opt to play Oblivion Sowers in lieu of Conduit of Ruin against any matchup that plays fetchlands, for obvious reasons. If you're maindecking Oblivion Sower, I would definitely play atleast 2 Urborg.
x3 Glimmerpost – I have frequently gone back and forth on playing a full playset main deck. The life gain can be helpful in some matchups. However, the fact that it produces only 1 mana a turn unlike every other land in the deck makes it one of the weakest links in the mana base.
Ran some games with the above draft list. . . 4 Lotus Petal's a definitely needed. Serum Powder's power comes from the ability to assure a turn 1 chalice, not the whole Scourge thing, so you need to increase your chances of powering out the chalice. I don't know what to take out though. Maybe the reshapers and/or wastelands/factories?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
You're right about that. Ultimately I don't think having to maindeck 4 copies of a relatively weak card like Serum Powder is worth it. If you really wanted to try it, you could swap Reshapers out with Scourge and cut a Factory and find 3 more cards to cut for Serum Powder. I wouldn't bother with Lotus Petal. If you really wanted to play something along those lines, Simian Spirit Guide is probably your best bet. It does the same thing as Lotus Petal but also lets you dodge Daze, lets you cast Chalice at 0 without hesistation, and can even be hardcast under a Blood Moon to carry a Jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
But again, I think having to run a crappy card like Serum Powder just to improve another subpar card like Eternal Scourge that's not as strong as the card it would be replacing doesn't make much sense. Going this route forces you to pack your deck with vanilla 3 power creatures instead of threats disruptive enough to actually win you the game. I think Big Eldrazi integrating 10 Post and Ulamog so that you're essentially playing 24 Sol Lands maindeck is the most promising way to advance the deck. Big Eldrazi decks already put up 2 Top 8s in the most recent SCG and another Top 8 at the one before that so there isn't much debate about the utility of Sower+Ulamog.
I would be very surprised if ultimately, some Big Eldrazi 10 Post build very close to the list I posted two posts above, doesn't prove to be the strongest version of Eldrazi for the current meta. In fact I think such a list is quite possibly the strongest deck in Legacy at the moment, atleast until the meta adjusts.
I don't think the post mana base - with no cavern of souls or utility lands is worth it for the benefit of Ulamog.
well if you do that, run SCG. SCG is just always better than petal in colorless eldrazi. but i think petal + powder + lands topdecks lategame will be very bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...verseid=417787
im quite convinced that this will become an eldrazi staple. another reality smasher effect is all you want. Tapping factory to activate this dude is also sweet
what do you guys think?
Just throwing it in there:
Maybe it's too cute, but with Serum Powder + Eternal Scourge, I wonder if Food Chain becomes a bit more viable. Infinite/Infinite Endless Ones do have some appeal (as long as they aren't chump-blocked), as does hardcasting some Eldrazi Titans. Conduit of Ruin could be used to tutor for Eldrazi fat in a synergistic way with Food Chain.
Even with ESG, casting Food Chain is probably the main problem, though.
Edit: Fleetwheel Cruiser doesn't trigger Mimic, right? As for Factory, you still need to pay :1: to activate the Factory before getting it to crew the cruiser.
Sadly it don't trigger Mimic (otherwise it would be really great) on the other side it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
+can be used with Mimic that are useless later if you can't cast big eldrazi bodies
+dodges sorcery sweeper like Toxic Deluge (since most of the time it is not a creature)
+can go to town with Eldrazi that have summoning sickness (yeah they can't attack, but they can drive :cool:)
+5/3 Trample + Haste for 4 Mana sounds nice :cool:
+if killed with removal the driving Eldrazi is still alive (:laugh:)
+it does something (at least one attack) if your field is empty and continue the beats if you topdeck a creature (see above) the following turn
But:
-you still invest 4 non-eldrazi Mana which can also be: Cast+Equip Jitte or a big eldrazi boy from TKS to Endbringer (counting Eye/Temple) etc.
-5/3 Racer still dies to bolt (see Lodestone Golem) and some 3 Power Creatures (Clique/TNN/Thalia 2.0 etc.) from other decks
-no Cavern Protection and can also be hit from Spell Pierce and Artifact Removal
-one Mana more will lead to Batterskull or the new Skyship (which kills Delver with EtB)
you got some good points buddy. but playing this dude turn 4 into smasher a turn later, sounds great. the biggest issue is indeed the mana issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
dodging terminus seems great.
they see me rollin :cool: .........
But your pilots don't dodge it... You have to think of these like Equipment but with a totem armor attached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
mishras factory does doge it. and if you dont have the factory, you can slam a treat on your turn and attack againQuote:
Originally Posted by keys
everything right unless they Terminus in your turn which is like.. 90% of the times.
Nothing says blowout like a Terminus after activating Factory and crewing the Vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
that whould be the second terminus then lol. we are talking about getting your game straight after a terminus. you only get blown out by luck or overextendingQuote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
If u are running vehicles, you will need the oblivion sower/grim monolith builds. Without eye or temple mana, a sky soverign is harder to cast 80% of the time than an all is dust, and u might as well play that anytime over.
What spot does this take-up? It's not really a creature. . . its more like an equipment. One that almost readsQuote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
4
Equiped creature has +~3/+0 and trample
Equip 0
So outside the first turn - where it hits for 5, not sure it's worth anything you take out. For example, i was arguing for Skysoveriegn earlier. That vehichle at least acts like removal so it can take over jitte's spot. This doesn't.
im more thinking about moving the 2 endbringers to the sideboard for 2 of these dudes. i think i win about 75% of my games due to reality smasher. so i guess a effect like this should work. altough its hard to cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
im just speculating. i hope i wont get as disappointed as i got form lodestone golem. That dude ate a bolt all day.
Does anyone else feel like Jitte underperforms nearly always?
That is a card I really don't like MB, but with nearly ubiquitous adoption, it's hard to argue against.
Is this just the 1st card to cut in 80% of g2 sideboards?
nope. i only cut 2 vs combo. i cut 1 vs miracles. i leave it in in 90% of the matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by pateuglow
You dont cut vs delver or shardless?
Depends on which delver deck but I always keep both in against grixis. So good against pyromancer and other problem creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by maraxusofkelds
Shardless I usually leave one in but I'm not sure if that's the right decision. I never cut both of them in this matchup.
I do cut both against non mentor miracles and combo. I generally cut both against lands as well...
no way!Quote:
Originally Posted by maraxusofkelds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
Shardless and Delver are still trying to kill you with efficient chip damage and creatures. They can't deal with persistent removal, life gain or significant pressure. Jitte lets you turn your creatures into any of those 3.
I had a Delver opponent tank hard on a turn one thoughseize between Chalice and Jitte. He ultimately took Jitte and gambled on having a blue card to pitch to force by turn 2. It's much better in those matchups than Thorn in many situations.
I don't think that this vehicle is the right card for the deck.
1. It doesn't trigger Mimic for that beautiful "swing you for 10" effect.
2. It gets no Eldrazi-discounts (temple-eye) and it's harder to cast.
3. Its toughness is too low (-> Lightning Bolt, Delver, Mongoose).
4. It does not protect itself: remember that most removals are istant speed.
I must admit that this vehicle is very strong vs sorcery mass removal spells (toxic deluge/supreme verdict) because during your following turn you can cast an eldrazi (say, TKS), crew it and immediately swing because of haste and profit of the empty battlefield. But this is a very niche scenario.
However it appears to me that it's clearly worse than smasher. If I was forced to add another creature, it'd be another eldrazi.
Fuck I guess I've been playing the delver matchup wrong then in regards to jitte. I took em out cuz the creatures Id equip them to would just get bolted. Do you play it later after you established a bolt proof board like with endless one/thought knots/reality smasher or do you rush it out rather than cast a thought knot if you have a creature on board?
The early lines of play with delver are really critical since their game plan is to get just far enough ahead to win. You may have to make early sequencing decisions on the fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by maraxusofkelds
Bolt is only effective against 8 of our creatures (depending on build) and even if they use it on your creatures, it's not being pointed at you to shorten the clock.
TKS should always be a priority though since Delver has no pure card advantage; just cantrips and card selection. Jitte can virtually end the game in one attack step and two swings lowers their odds into the single digits.
Would appreciate some input on the sideboard.
The list has been ridiculously good all weekend. The only matchup that gave me any difficulty at all this entire weekend was Dredge, and I attribute that to not expecting this matchup and thus not playing 4 Leyline of the Void in the board. Especially with the current build now playing 2 Urborg, Leyline makes perfect sense.
I am more confident than ever that if I find a way to make room for 4 Leylines in the sideboard, the deck is damn near unstoppable in the current meta. The Cloudposts have made the deck more consistently able to overrun opponents and have also made the deck much more resistant to Wasteland, making it much less reliant on Temple/Eye and far better able to recover from Grixis's attempts to mana screw you
However I can't figure out what to cut from my current board, aside from the 2 Fairie Macabre, to make room for 4 Leylines. Every sideboard card I play ended up being useful.
What do you guys think is the least essential card in my current sideboard that should get cut to make room for the last 2 Leylines? This is in reference to the below list...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Would greatly appreciate any input you can provide on this. Because I am convinced more than ever after this past weekend that this is the strongest deck in Legacy at the moment once it fills the vulnerability in the current sideboard to Dredge.
My current inclination is to cut Rachet Bomb and thus go...
SB +4 Leyline of the Void
SB -2 Fairie Macabre
SB -2 Rachet Bomb
However, even Rachet Bomb has been solid, blowing up a ton of Pyromancer tokens, Delvers and even a Counterbalance this past weekend. So I'm not 100% certain this is the best card to cut.
I agree with your points. I think the worst disadvantage is #2. I did some testing with Smuggler's Copter and thought that performed better. Flying was very relevant (blocks Delvers that slip through Chalice), as was the loot ability in a deck that can have clunky hands. I think Mishra's Factory is a natural best friend of the Copter, and it further insulates you from Toxic Deluge. Both of these help vs. Terminus, acting as sleeping creatures held in reserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cave
Hm. Maybe I'm just playing it wrong or haven't had great luck with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
5-0 today
2-0 miracles (he kept a 1 lander with 4 tops. Didnt work out ayyy XD)
2-0 sneaky show
2-0 infect
2-0 ANT
2-1 reanimator
all games my opponent were so darn unlucky LMAO.
decklist and side?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
see my signature. its always the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino
@ Noloam, I've continued to experiment with the serum powder list and thought about removing all the removal and going for more beats so I turned to fleetwheel. I'm immensely enjoying the below build. It's not as consistent as regular eldrazi, but I am liking the explosiveness of it.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Serum Powder
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
I do not see Your ListQuote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
http://i.imgur.com/xpfnv3a.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino