[Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

All the recent lists seem to have been more along the lines of Monoblack Aggro with Smallpox rather than the more controllish Pox decks of yesteryear.

I have a list that I love and is a lot more controllish.


19 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory

2 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Pox

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Wrench Mind
2 Raven's Crime

4 Noetic Scales
4 Chimeric Idol
3 Phyrexian Totem


Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Baruka Bog
3 Powder Keg
3 Oppression
2 Wretched Banquet

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You want 4 Dark Rituals to guarantee that turn1 explosiveness, otherwise I'd lose them all. If you don't draw it opening hand, you wont want it 5 turns later, that's my rational. It's all or nothing my friend.

Noetic scales seems good. The mana cost is it's worst drawback, I'd cut 2 of them at add 2 Crucible of Worlds. I think Crucible is a must in Pox, whether regaining CA from lands sac'd to Pox or recurring factories as blockers, it's deffinitely needed. You need a pitch outlet to Pox's, I suggest bloodghast over totem. That's part of the CA you gain, it's needed IMO.

Lose the Wrench Mind card. It's mind rot with benefits, it's horrible. You need "specific" hand removal - Duess/Thoughtseize, to play your "Turn1, remove countertop, or remove standstill, or remove stp". That's all I got now, rest seems pretty good. Although I would throw in ~2-3 Tombstalkers just to have, they're so good, I'd almost say too good not to run.

What are the thoughts on Death's Shadow? It obviously isn't viable as anything more than a 1-2 of, but it adds late game stomping power and can often save you against decks like Burn, 'Goyf Sligh, Zoo, and Tempo Threshold. I'm obviously not going to suggest running it if you don't run Pox, but as a 1-of, it helps. A lot. No dependency on the graveyard is also nice.

Bloodghast is also better at low life, but landfall doesn't work when I'm faking a good hand(a tactic that owns decks w/ discard).

Current Beater Regiment:
3 Tombstalker
1 Death's Shadow
1 Nihilith
1 Necroplasm

The reliance on the graveyard is hard to avoid, but I find that most graveyard hate these days is targeted.

With regards to beaters like tombstalker and death's shadow. Once you're running nether spirits and bloodghasts you don't have to worry about sacrificing your beater to a pox. These creatures already have so much synergy with the deck, but they additionally alleviate the antisynergy of "regular" creatures. Tombstalker is that much better with a spirit/ghast on the table to be sac'd in its place.

I don't find myself "faking a good hand" very often. I mostly play a land for 2 free damage. Bloodghast is awesome.

I don't agree that 3 is the right number of stalkers. It is tempting to run 3, I know, because it ends games. But 3 is too many, and 2 is not quite enough. 2 is closer to the right number, though. The fact is, your deck should be strong enough to win every game without tombstalker. Tombstalker should be a "nice to have" that steals a game here and there. You shouldn't be relying on stalker as it can be slow and antisynergetic, especially in multiples.

Death's shadow has potential. Even against the more controllish decks out there my life total usually gets low. Take a hit or 2 from a tarmogoyf and pox once, your life gets below 10 pretty easy. He's easily a 4/4 or 5/5 for B. He's kinda weird cuz he really sucks if you're winning and is really awesome if you're losing. One problem is that he has no evasion, so even if you're way behind on life he can't necessarily steal the game away as they can just chump him and swing with another guy ftw. So when you're losing he'll likely be on defense, acting as a big wall. And I think pox can generally do better than a big wall. Of course pox can do a good job of keeping creatures off the board, so if you're losing and he's unblocked he can completely turn the game around. Let me know how it goes with the card, seems really swingy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

What are the thoughts on Death's Shadow? It obviously isn't viable as anything more than a 1-2 of, but it adds late game stomping power and can often save you against decks like Burn, 'Goyf Sligh, Zoo, and Tempo Threshold. I'm obviously not going to suggest running it if you don't run Pox, but as a 1-of, it helps. A lot. No dependency on the graveyard is also nice.

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What is there to think about? the card sucks and doesn't get a spot.

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Bloodghast is also better at low life, but landfall doesn't work when I'm faking a good hand(a tactic that owns decks w/ discard).

Current Beater Regiment:
3 Tombstalker
1 Death's Shadow
1 Nihilith
1 Necroplasm

The reliance on the graveyard is hard to avoid, but I find that most graveyard hate these days is targeted.

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When do you ever need to fake a good hand with pox? We aren't playing islands. We rip apart their hand and destroy the perms they play. We are never playing out more than 3-4 lands so you auto hold back lands for landfall or raven's crime anyways. I doubt you will ever feel it was a mistake to play a land to bring back a ghast.. ever. You regiment of beaters is all over the place. whenever I see so many one-ofs in a deck with no tutors it only means one thing - bad deckbuilding. You use the creatures that fit the strategy best, which in some cases is bloodghast, nether spirit, tombstalker, perhaps epochrisite or persecutor. If you want something that is mono-black and huge in this deck, try Nyxathid. He is good when you are winning and good when you are losing. In this deck he is often a 7/7 or a 6/6 and rarely smaller. For a death's shadow to be a 7/7 you have to be at 6 life. To have more than one death's shadow on the board just sets you up for a 2 for 1 with swords.

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Originally Posted by slylie

What is there to think about? the card sucks and doesn't get a spot.



When do you ever need to fake a good hand with pox? We aren't playing islands. We rip apart their hand and destroy the perms they play. We are never playing out more than 3-4 lands so you auto hold back lands for landfall or raven's crime anyways. I doubt you will ever feel it was a mistake to play a land to bring back a ghast.. ever. You regiment of beaters is all over the place. whenever I see so many one-ofs in a deck with no tutors it only means one thing - bad deckbuilding. You use the creatures that fit the strategy best, which in some cases is bloodghast, nether spirit, tombstalker, perhaps epochrisite or persecutor. If you want something that is mono-black and huge in this deck, try Nyxathid. He is good when you are winning and good when you are losing. In this deck he is often a 7/7 or a 6/6 and rarely smaller. For a death's shadow to be a 7/7 you have to be at 6 life. To have more than one death's shadow on the board just sets you up for a 2 for 1 with swords.

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First off, the aim of my deck, in case you haven't noticed is to last to the late game. This means that if I don't see the "right" beater for the MU I'm playing, I try and push it longer into the late game. That acts as a psuedo tutor, albeit very slow and random. Most of the time anything will do, so why do I have to pick the "one beater to rule them all" when I could just get a couple beaters that handle the whole meta well?

Secondly, the faking a good hand thing is simple. Your opponent plays discard, you hold your lands in your hand. They play something like duress or thoughtseize and can't nab anything. Another advantage of holding your lands when you don't need them is that by holding your non-basics specifically, you deny your opponent more targets for wasteland.

Nyxathid... wow. That's even less viable than well... anything. If you're doing well, you should win anyways. If you're losing, he sucks. I don't know where you're coming from on that... them having 4-7 cards in hand make him a horrible card.

I only have one death's shadow in my deck. How is it possible for me to have two on the board. If they stp shadow, it resets me up to 13 life inherently.

As for my testing, it's been amazing so far. I love it's ability to out-clock pretty much everything in the format if they're stupid enough to try and race. That just spells win.

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

First off, the aim of my deck, in case you haven't noticed is to last to the late game. This means that if I don't see the "right" beater for the MU I'm playing, I try and push it longer into the late game. That acts as a psuedo tutor, albeit very slow and random. Most of the time anything will do, so why do I have to pick the "one beater to rule them all" when I could just get a couple beaters that handle the whole meta well?

Secondly, the faking a good hand thing is simple. Your opponent plays discard, you hold your lands in your hand. They play something like duress or thoughtseize and can't nab anything. Another advantage of holding your lands when you don't need them is that by holding your non-basics specifically, you deny your opponent more targets for wasteland.

Nyxathid... wow. That's even less viable than well... anything. If you're doing well, you should win anyways. If you're losing, he sucks. I don't know where you're coming from on that... them having 4-7 cards in hand make him a horrible card.

I only have one death's shadow in my deck. How is it possible for me to have two on the board. If they stp shadow, it resets me up to 13 life inherently.

As for my testing, it's been amazing so far. I love it's ability to out-clock pretty much everything in the format if they're stupid enough to try and race. That just spells win.

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Allright I guess it depends on the build you are playing, my build I always hold lands in my hand anyways as I play 2 raven's crime and crucible maindeck and I never need more than 3-4 lands out at a time.

Nyxathid is a good card. I don't play him but I've tested him and he can really be huge in this kind of deck. I can't fit him anywhere in my build but he is very viable and is going to sit in your hand a lot less often than death's shadow.

There's a HUGE number of viable win conditions in pox. And almost all of them are quite good. Tombstalker is imo heads and shoulders above the rest if you're playing fetchlands and many pox effects. The only way I wouldn't play it is if I wasn't playing fetchlands or Pox or if I was playing something techy like Ensnaring Bridge or Noetic Scales.

But after Tombstalker, all of the following threats work well...

Bloodghast
Mishra's Factory + Crucible
Nether Spirit
Nyxathid
Nihilith
Death's Shadow (I'm iffy on this)
Necroplasm
Epocrasite
Chimeric Idol
The Rack (iffy on this)

And atleast half a dozen other great threats.

well i haven't been here in a while, but i decided to put up my new spin on pox due to number of very critical new cards that have been introduced. let me state my logic about some of these cards. pox decks are basically a symetrical (balance) type of effect and your top decks are probably going to be better than your opponent's.

however pox has a problem with both burn and recursion (ever play landstill with pox? and you find out quickly it is near unwinnable). also swarm creature decks can be somewhat problematic at times if coupled with burn (ala zoo).

so several new cards have been introduced that haven't received enough attention so i am posting once again.

1) bojuka bog --- this card is a house very recursion for very obvious reasons. it doesn't waste a slot because it is a land and we need land in pox since we are blowing up our's :D.

2) death's shadow --- wow this card is simply amazing... why? because we are always low on life in pox and often we need to cast a big threat with little or no mana (hence the desire to use tombstalkers)

3) dark depths + vampire hexmage --- now this is very strange because i came upon this decision based off the meta. right now pox can't beat ichorid because they don't lands or cards in hand to go off, but they do need bridge from below. what better way to beat that deck than just have 1 creature which allows you to nerf their bridges by just saccing? also with the huge flood of vial decks like merfolk and others, a land denial strategy is not as beneficial as before.

so i decided to incorporate both expedition map (to fetch either the bog and other goodies) and tabernacle. tabernacle is a house against swarm decks simply because they wont have the mana to maintain their army. and with that setup i figured i might as well replace my wastelands (which seem very dormant as of late) with the dark depths combo to give you a quick win con.


so here's my deck list:

lands: 23
swamp 16
bojuka bog 4
dark depths 2
the tabernacle at pendrell vale 1

creatures: 19
dark confidant 4
vampire hexmage 4
gatekeeper of malakir 3
nyxathid 4
death's shadow 4

spells: 21
hymn to tourach 4
wrench mind 4
smallpox 4
pox 3
basilisk collar 1
expedition map 2


the spells that i am thinking about interchanging is gatekeepers for poxes and vice versa. quest for the nihil stone is at times underwhelming, but many times it keeps them from spending their hands so i can hymn them. a lot of times i can win with vampire hexmage + dark depths combo fairly quickly.

questions and suggestions are welcomed.

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Originally Posted by Top Deck

swamp 16
bojuka bog 4
dark depths 2
the tabernacle at pendrell vale 1

smallpox 4
pox 3
.

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Why the heck aren't you playing 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Cut expedition map and add another dark depths and play 24 lands total.


Just play it. The card was printed for your deck and is the difference between it being unplayable and viable.

swamp 12
bojuka bog 4
dark depths 3-4
the tabernacle at pendrell vale 1
urborg tomb of yawgmoth 4

expedition map 0

pox 3
smallpox 4

You absolutely should be playing urborg tomb of yawgmoth. And 4 at that, not even one less (you can sac and discard extras to your Pox effects). The same applies to dark depths (you can play 3-4 because extras serve as Pox and Smallpox fodder.

Very good rationale.

i cut the maps in favor of your manabase.

Excellent. I assure you that you won't regret it.

4 Urborg and 3 Dark Depths are easy to support with 7 Pox effects.

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Originally Posted by Top Deck

well i haven't been here in a while, but i decided to put up my new spin on pox due to number of very critical new cards that have been introduced. let me state my logic about some of these cards. pox decks are basically a symetrical (balance) type of effect and your top decks are probably going to be better than your opponent's.

however pox has a problem with both burn and recursion (ever play landstill with pox? and you find out quickly it is near unwinnable). also swarm creature decks can be somewhat problematic at times if coupled with burn (ala zoo).

so several new cards have been introduced that haven't received enough attention so i am posting once again.

1) bojuka bog --- this card is a house very recursion for very obvious reasons. it doesn't waste a slot because it is a land and we need land in pox since we are blowing up our's :D.

2) death's shadow --- wow this card is simply amazing... why? because we are always low on life in pox and often we need to cast a big threat with little or no mana (hence the desire to use tombstalkers)

3) dark depths + vampire hexmage --- now this is very strange because i came upon this decision based off the meta. right now pox can't beat ichorid because they don't lands or cards in hand to go off, but they do need bridge from below. what better way to beat that deck than just have 1 creature which allows you to nerf their bridges by just saccing? also with the huge flood of vial decks like merfolk and others, a land denial strategy is not as beneficial as before.

so i decided to incorporate both expedition map (to fetch either the bog and other goodies) and tabernacle. tabernacle is a house against swarm decks simply because they wont have the mana to maintain their army. and with that setup i figured i might as well replace my wastelands (which seem very dormant as of late) with the dark depths combo to give you a quick win con.


so here's my deck list:

lands: 23
swamp 16
bojuka bog 4
dark depths 2
the tabernacle at pendrell vale 1

creatures: 19
dark confidant 4
vampire hexmage 4
gatekeeper of malakir 3
nyxathid 4
death's shadow 4

spells: 21
hymn to tourach 4
wrench mind 4
smallpox 4
pox 3
basilisk collar 1
expedition map 2


the spells that i am thinking about interchanging is gatekeepers for poxes and vice versa. quest for the nihil stone is at times underwhelming, but many times it keeps them from spending their hands so i can hymn them. a lot of times i can win with vampire hexmage + dark depths combo fairly quickly.

questions and suggestions are welcomed.

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Your creature base doesn't synergize much with pox. Death's shadow should probably be a 2 of at most, and I think a 1-of. Gatekeeper is good but you already have 7 edicts, and sacrificing gatekeeper to a pox negates the card advantage he gained you in the first place. I'd go with:

4x bloodghast
4x nyxathid
4x hexmage
4x dark confidant
2x tombstalker
1x death's shadow

bloodghast acts to "protect" your other creatures from pox. Now you can pox with nyxathid or death's shadow out, just sac the ghast instead and bring it back with landfall. Ghast also often gets haste from them having less than 10 life pretty quickly.

Wrench mind is pretty bad, I just plain wouldn't play it. In fact, I'd rather have augur of skulls in this deck. It always hits 2 cards (wrench doesn't) and can block a tarmogoyf for a while until you draw removal (which wrench mind will also never do). It can even swing for 1 when the opponent is stalled in topdeck mode, making it useful even if the opponent has no cards left in hand (something else wrench mind will never do).

I think the hexmage/depths combo is a reasonable "oops I win" throw-in. It may even find a place in more traditional pox lists because it can just outright win the game in a single turn.

Cutting the maps was a good call. 4x urborg is an autoinclude.

We've already discussed HexDepths.
When is basilisk collar better than jitte. Even more important, when can we sacrifice options in our hand for purely extra-offensive options?

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

I'm sorry but srsly?
@OmniStrata I don't understand how tempting wurm makes the deck any better?

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For the discard form of Pox, using Duress [or thoughtsieze], if your foe has any threats that are bigger than a 5/5, you obviously don't play it. 5/5 for two mana when your foe's hand is empty? (or has blah* threats) Duress/ThoughtS, Hymn, Smallpox, Pox. Odds should be good that you shred their hand and Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam?

Outside TombS, what other Black or Green creature can be that huge without GY? Goyf and Tomby do cannibalize each other and it could work if you don't care about 'one or the other, but NEVER both' scenario. Tempting Wurm after shredding their hands alongside a Tombstalker I'm sure would work out well, unless for some god awful reason you can't draw 3 of your 17 discard cards...

sorry for the late reply, was busy

This was my build, with a couple of modern additions:

x4 Pox
X4 Vindicate
x4 Sinkhole
x4 Hymn to Tourach
x3 Duress
x4 Innocent Blood
x4 Dark Ritual

X4 Chimeric Idol
X2 ]Nether spirit
x2 Cursed Scroll
x1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
x1 The Abyss
x2 Extirpate
x2 Sign in Blood

x4 Scrubland
x4 Polluted Delta
x11 Swamp

Sideboard:

x3 Wasteland
x2 Disenchant
x3 Circle of Protection: red
x2 Rule of Law
x2 Perish
x2 pithing needle
x1 Funeral Charm

Ok, the cards to look at for the future of pox: (Rise of Eldrazi SPOILAHS!!!)

Inquisition of Kozilek - B
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand. Choose a nonland card with CMC =< 3 , they discard that card.

The reason Inquisition is good in pox would be as a duress/'seize replacement. We'll just have to wait and see how much CMC limit will impact the success of this card imho.

Consuming Vapors - 3B
Sorcery
Target player sacrifices a creature, you gain life equal to its toughness.
Rebound (Remove this card from the game, play it again for free your next upkeep)

The reason Vapors has even the slightest chance in pox is that it because it 2 for 1's. It comes with special sauce like non-targeting and life gain. It also punches through counters. And GY removal. Really, it's plain out awesome. Not sure we can get to a level where 4 mana is acceptable for a reactive spell.

The black leveling creatures we've seen so far don't work in pox.
Just my 2cents.

Hello,

this will be my first post in this forum after a few months of just reading. I play Pox now for several months and i want to give you my list for discussion and disposition.

Creatures:

4x Bloodghast
1x Necroplasm
1x Nether Spirit

Spells:

4x Dark Ritual
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Funeral Charm
4x Innocent Blood
3x Thoughtseize
4x Smallpox
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Duress
2x Entomb
1x Raven's Crime
1x Syphon Life

Lands:

14x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacomb
4x Wasteland
1x Cabal Pit

Sideboard:

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Engineered Plague
3x Dystopia
4x Extirpate
1x Bojuka Bog


I know my deck is not that aggressive but it works pretty decent vs several match-up, but first i give you some explanations why i picked some of these cards.
Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Duress, Thoughtseize, Raven's Crime and Funeral Charm allow me to have powerful first-turns. Especially versus mulligans it's great.
Entomb gives me some tutoring for interesting targets like Necroplasm, Bloodghast, Cabal Pit if necessary etc. I wish for first turn Entombs for Nether Spirit.
The creature combination turned out to be some kind of sac-and-control rotation, if Necroplasm is involved.
Smallpox, Innocent Blood, Funeral Charm and Cabal Pit keep the board clear, so that my little critters can do their job.

My matchups so far, as i can say concerning my meta:
vs. Zoo - i have good chances, LD + Removal, the Burn is handled via Syphon Life tutored by Entomb
vs. CanTresh - good, basically i can kill more threats than he has in his deck
vs. any kind of Survival - bad, just bad in first game. in game two and three it gets better
vs. Goblins - really good
vs. Combo - even to slightly unfavourable, post-board little better


so guys, what would you change and what ideas can you give me?
thanks and sorry for eventual bad english, i am not a native speaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

Ok, the cards to look at for the future of pox: (Rise of Eldrazi SPOILAHS!!!)

Inquisition of Kozilek - B
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand. Choose a nonland card with CMC =< 3 , they discard that card.

The reason Inquisition is good in pox would be as a duress/'seize replacement. We'll just have to wait and see how much CMC limit will impact the success of this card imho.

Consuming Vapors - 3B
Sorcery
Target player sacrifices a creature, you gain life equal to its toughness.
Rebound (Remove this card from the game, play it again for free your next upkeep)

The reason Vapors has even the slightest chance in pox is that it because it 2 for 1's. It comes with special sauce like non-targeting and life gain. It also punches through counters. And GY removal. Really, it's plain out awesome. Not sure we can get to a level where 4 mana is acceptable for a reactive spell.

The black leveling creatures we've seen so far don't work in pox.
Just my 2cents.

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Good finds.

I think Inquisition is a fantastic replacement for Thoughtseize and Duress.

Duress sucked especially in top deck mode in that it could whiff if your opp is just left with lands and creatures after your Smallpoxes and such. Plus it didn't discard goyfs when thats what you most wanted to discard.

Thoughtseize sucked in that it shocked you and your life.

But Inquisition is solid. I think lots of black aggro decks would play it too, possibly alongside Reanimate and Thoughtseize.

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Originally Posted by Doombear

Hello,

this will be my first post in this forum after a few months of just reading. I play Pox now for several months and i want to give you my list for discussion and disposition.

Creatures:

4x Bloodghast
1x Necroplasm
1x Nether Spirit

Spells:

4x Dark Ritual
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Funeral Charm
4x Innocent Blood
3x Thoughtseize
4x Smallpox
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Duress
2x Entomb
1x Raven's Crime
1x Syphon Life

Lands:

14x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacomb
4x Wasteland
1x Cabal Pit

Sideboard:

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Engineered Plague
3x Dystopia
4x Extirpate
1x Bojuka Bog


I know my deck is not that aggressive but it works pretty decent vs several match-up, but first i give you some explanations why i picked some of these cards.
Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Duress, Thoughtseize, Raven's Crime and Funeral Charm allow me to have powerful first-turns. Especially versus mulligans it's great.
Entomb gives me some tutoring for interesting targets like Necroplasm, Bloodghast, Cabal Pit if necessary etc. I wish for first turn Entombs for Nether Spirit.
The creature combination turned out to be some kind of sac-and-control rotation, if Necroplasm is involved.
Smallpox, Innocent Blood, Funeral Charm and Cabal Pit keep the board clear, so that my little critters can do their job.

My matchups so far, as i can say concerning my meta:
vs. Zoo - i have good chances, LD + Removal, the Burn is handled via Syphon Life tutored by Entomb
vs. CanTresh - good, basically i can kill more threats than he has in his deck
vs. any kind of Survival - bad, just bad in first game. in game two and three it gets better
vs. Goblins - really good
vs. Combo - even to slightly unfavourable, post-board little better


so guys, what would you change and what ideas can you give me?
thanks and sorry for eventual bad english, i am not a native speaker

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First of all, I love the direction your deck is going. Using the entomb to get answers for most decks game 1. I like it.

Some ideas, you know the deck better than I but maybe more questions than suggestions?

1. Why not 1 of Bojuku Bog maindeck?
2. I know its a tall order, but 1 of Taberknackle?
3. Since entomb is so good in this deck, why not up the number to 3, or 4?
4. I think the discard is a bit much. Why does funeral charm make the cut?
5. Why no urborg? You can tap the pit without paying life, tap wastelands for (b), tabernacle, ect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

We've already discussed HexDepths.

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I find hexdepths unbelievable in pox. It has been discussed already (to some extend), but it think it deserves to be discussed thoroughly.

Best reason why: It gives you a much faster killing option besides Tombstalker (which is insufficient as a lonesome killing option). In an ideal play you would disrupt your opponent 3 or 4 turns, cast Tombstalker, and attack 3 or 4 turns. That gives you 7 to 9 turns to finish the job, if all goes well. Hexdepths potentially finishes the job for you in 3 turns - making the deck much more viable against fast aggro or burn, simply because it's a deal-with-me-or-die situation. And it's independant of the graveyard, which makes it a balanced addition to tombstalker.

To find both combopieces, I use living wish, which I find amazing. Actually living wish is the mainreason why I find hexdepths very synergical with pox. It gets you hexmage and DD, but also Tombstalker, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale or Maze of Ith. Especially Pendrell Vale is great against fast weenies,and living wish solves the fact that you don't run multiple copies maindeck. Sensei's divining Top with fetches/dredge searches the library for hex/depths (or every other card you might need).

I tossed my factories out and replaced them with DD, replacing a slow and defensive card with a hyperefficient killer combocard (there is the argument that a factory can give a colorless mana, but you need only B in pox). I never really liked factory as it was too slow to be a threat and when needed for chumpblocking, I mostly lost the game anyway. I also cut crucible, replacing it with Life from the loam. Dredge is simply card advantage: discard it to pox and dredge back when needed - crucible forces you to discard other cards. Also, dredge is great with Sensei's divining top: if you don't like what you see, dredge away.

Here's my list:

- 2 tombstalker
- 3 hexmage
- 3 dark depths

- 4 smallpox
- 4 sinkhole
- 4 hymn to tourach
- 3 duress (to be replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek)
- 2 pox

- 4 living wish
- 3 sensei's divining top
- 3 life from the loam

- 4 mox diamond
- 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- 2 bloodstained mire
- 4 verdant catacombs
- 4 bayou
- 4 wasteland
- 3 swamps

Sideboard
- 1 hexmage
- 1 dark depths
- 1 tombstalker
- 1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
- 1 maze of ith
- 4 extirpate
- 3 elephant grass
- 2 pernicious deed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chtulhu

I find hexdepths unbelievable in pox. It has been discussed already (to some extend), but it think it deserves to be discussed thoroughly.

Best reason why: It gives you a much faster killing option besides Tombstalker (which is insufficient as a lonesome killing option). In an ideal play you would disrupt your opponent 3 or 4 turns, cast Tombstalker, and attack 3 or 4 turns. That gives you 7 to 9 turns to finish the job, if all goes well. Hexdepths potentially finishes the job for you in 3 turns - making the deck much more viable against fast aggro or burn, simply because it's a deal-with-me-or-die situation. And it's independant of the graveyard, which makes it a balanced addition to tombstalker.
Almost all pox-decks run crucible/factory together - but in a way hexdepths does the same job so much better. A factory can chumpblock all day long, but MaritLage simply is the best blocking creature imaginable, which swings for victory the next turn. I tossed my factories out and replaced them with DD, replacing a slow and defensive card with a hyperefficient killer combocard (there is the argument that a factory can give a colorless mana, but you need only B in pox).

To find both combopieces, I use living wish, which I find amazing. Actually living wish is the mainreason why I find hexdepths very synergical with pox. It gets you hexmage and DD, but also Tombstalker, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale or Maze of Ith. Especially Pendrell Vale is great against fast weenies,and living wish solves the fact that you can't run multiple copies maindeck (manastability). And for searching the library for hex/depths (or every other card you might need), I use Sensei's divining top with fetches.

Here's my list:

- 2 tombstalker
- 3 hexmage
- 3 dark depths

- 4 smallpox
- 4 sinkhole
- 3 hymn to tourach
- 3 duress (to be replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek)
- 2 pox

- 4 living wish
- 3 sensei's divining top
- 3 life from the loam

- 4 mox diamond
- 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- 2 bloodstained mire
- 4 verdant catacombs
- 4 bayou
- 4 wasteland
- 4 swamps

Sideboard
- 1 hexmage
- 1 dark depths
- 1 tombstalker
- 1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
- 1 maze of ith
- 4 extirpate
- 3 elephant grass
- 2 pernicious deed

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I played a very similar list with decent success (although I never brought it to a tournament up to now). The differences in my list are:

- 3 hymns
- 2 pox
- 1 wish
+ 3 pernicious deed
+ 2 maelstrom pulse
+ 1 duress

And goyf instead of stalker in the wish board. The mana base was also slightly different, since I managed to fit 3 factories in it. I have experienced an overall improvement in the bad matchups my old Bg pox list had, but still felt ANT was hard to beat unless you had both disruption and a fast combo.

I then tried something different, with maindeck Chalice of the Void, so that I'm basically preboarded against combo and can protect marith lage from those annoying plows (and even more annoying paths). From my previous list I went:

- 4 duress
- 3 top
+ 4 chalice
+ 3 sylvan library

Chalice is really strong, of course. The problem is, if you don't have chalice or mox diamond in your opening grip, things may be hard. I'm not sure what the best configuration is, I will be glad to hear how is the deck performing for you, any particular good/bad matchup or anything you may want to share.

I feel like Ankh of Mishra combined with Land destruction is godly powerful, especially given how many decks are dependent on fetchlands (which Ankh slaughters). Sinkhole, Vindicate, Wasteland and Smallpox are fine effects to this end (though Smallpox and Wasteland make you lose two life to replace the land, it's not a bad deal. Losing five life each time you fetch something is the definition of painful.



Is there any way we can abuse this card?

The only problem I can see with this strategy (although it could perfectly fit as a rogue tech) is if your opponent plays an Aether Vial turn one!

If so, how would you be able to combat that? Vindicate requires 1BW, which will be quite hurtful for your part as well.
Kudos for the idea though, but I personally would never added Ankh of Mishra maindeck. One more thing that could be brought up is its dead-draw factor. A late game Ankh of Mishra is not something I would draw, because the Sinkhole/Pox/Wasteland disruption is meant for the early game.

I would ask you to test it out on MWS and repost your findings if it is not too much, because I find it interesting.

ankh of mishra:

Good/solid on turn 2, pretty crappy after that. Too much variance imo.

You could dip into red for zo-zu, so you can run 8 ankhs. Also run moxen to crank out a turn 1 ankh, turn 2 zo zu, turn 3 sinkhole/pox/smallpox/wasteland/etc. Pretty savage.

As savage as that is, it is so much more draw-dependent than the more traditional pox builds.

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Originally Posted by Narcissism

The only problem I can see with this strategy (although it could perfectly fit as a rogue tech) is if your opponent plays an Aether Vial turn one!

If so, how would you be able to combat that? Vindicate requires 1BW, which will be quite hurtful for your part as well.
Kudos for the idea though, but I personally would never added Ankh of Mishra maindeck. One more thing that could be brought up is its dead-draw factor. A late game Ankh of Mishra is not something I would draw, because the Sinkhole/Pox/Wasteland disruption is meant for the early game.

I would ask you to test it out on MWS and repost your findings if it is not too much, because I find it interesting.

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Personally I think the Ankh sucks, especially if you lose the die roll. It just sounds bad and I couldn't imagine what would be cut for it. The decks that run vindciate (white splash vakapox or whatever) have a worse matchup against the deck the runs vial (Merfolk), as your land destruction is matched by them stifling your saclands and wastelanding your scrublands, not to mention the Ankh is going to do damage to yourself on top of the thoughtseizes, smallpox, pox, cabal pit, tomb of urami, ect ect.

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Originally Posted by slylie

Personally I think the Ankh sucks, especially if you lose the die roll. It just sounds bad and I couldn't imagine what would be cut for it. The decks that run vindciate (white splash vakapox or whatever) have a worse matchup against the deck the runs vial (Merfolk), as your land destruction is matched by them stifling your saclands and wastelanding your scrublands, not to mention the Ankh is going to do damage to yourself on top of the thoughtseizes, smallpox, pox, cabal pit, tomb of urami, ect ect.

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Is the Pope a catholic?
Of course this strategy will not work for a PT scene at all, but you never know what it could do to a local tournament scene or similar. Splashing white for Vindicate (the post I replied to) is something he mentioned as a nice effect. Mono black can never get rid of artifacts or enchantments, so I brought light on the question, what can you do if the player plays an Aether Vial turn one? Nothing. Automatic game loss, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Narcissism

Is the Pope a catholic?
Of course this strategy will not work for a PT scene at all, but you never know what it could do to a local tournament scene or similar. Splashing white for Vindicate (the post I replied to) is something he mentioned as a nice effect. Mono black can never get rid of artifacts or enchantments, so I brought light on the question, what can you do if the player plays an Aether Vial turn one? Nothing. Automatic game loss, if you ask me.

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You could use Powder keg, I know its not great but it does help against a lot of things if playing mono Black.

Anyone have any imput on the Smallpox depths variants?? Im considering runnig one of these lists this weekend...I used to play pox back in the day and think foregoing it in favor of smallpox is a good idea. Im also considering playing Eva Green. Specifically these two lists:

Artifacts
3 Crucible Of Worlds

Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vampire Hexmage

Instants
3 Ghastly Demise

Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Grim Discovery
4 Living Wish
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

Basic Lands
2 Swamp

Lands
4 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
4 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth

Legendary Snow Lands
3 Dark Depths

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
1 Tombstalker
1 Vampire Hexmage
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Maze Of Ith
1 Treetop Village
1 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths

And:

creature [13]

4 Dark Confidant

2 Gatekeeper of Malakir

4 Tarmogoyf

3 Vampire Hexmage

instant [4]

2 Crop Rotation

2 Ghastly Demise

sorcery [17]

4 Hymn to Tourach

3 Living Wish

2 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Smallpox

4 Thoughtseize

artifact [3]

3 Sensei's Divining Top

land [23]

3 Bayou

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Cabal Pit

3 Dark Depths

1 Forest

2 Polluted Delta

2 Swamp

3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Verdant Catacombs

3 Wasteland

60 cards

Sideboard:

1 Tombstalker

1 Vampire Hexmage

3 Krosan Grip

2 Perish

3 Engineered Plague

2 Bojuka Bog

1 Dark Depths

1 Karakas

1 Wasteland

THere is also this Eva Depths list:

60 cards
4 Bayou
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
24 lands


4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
3 Vampire Hexmage
15 creatures 4 Dark Ritual
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Living Wish
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Smother
4 Thoughtseize
21 other spells

Sideboard

1 Acidic Slime
1 Dark Depths
2 Deathmark
3 Engineered Plague
1 Eternal Witness
2 Extirpate
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Wasteland
15 sideboard cards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Narcissism

Is the Pope a catholic?
Of course this strategy will not work for a PT scene at all, but you never know what it could do to a local tournament scene or similar. Splashing white for Vindicate (the post I replied to) is something he mentioned as a nice effect. Mono black can never get rid of artifacts or enchantments, so I brought light on the question, what can you do if the player plays an Aether Vial turn one? Nothing. Automatic game loss, if you ask me.

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Well then you have no idea what you are talking about. If anyone knows the smallpox/merfolk matchup inside out, its me. I play vs my friend all the time to the point he hates me because the matchup is so bad for him. Vial is a automatic game loss? LOL. Thats the funniest thing I've heard in a long time... well at least pertaining to magic. How does vial win them the game when we run so much creature removal and discard? The vial is already card disadvantage so getting hit with a hymn right after laying down a pair of vials is devestating. Yes, it helps them against our LD strategy, but not every build runs sinkhole, and the ones that do can sink their mutavaults. The best chance merfolk has against this deck is to land vial and chain standstills, but even then its not a sure win for them. I'd love to hear your theory on how vial is an auto-win against pox.

And anyways to suggest splashing another color to run vindicates just to deal with vial is stupid, as I said the fetches turn on their stifles and wastelands, so you are making the matchup worse just to maybe be able to kill their vial on turn 3 or 4, and anyways if you are so worried about it you can just run Pithing needle naming vial without having to splash anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slylie

Well then you have no idea what you are talking about. If anyone knows the smallpox/merfolk matchup inside out, its me. I play vs my friend all the time to the point he hates me because the matchup is so bad for him. Vial is a automatic game loss? LOL. Thats the funniest thing I've heard in a long time... well at least pertaining to magic. How does vial win them the game when we run so much creature removal and discard? The vial is already card disadvantage so getting hit with a hymn right after laying down a pair of vials is devestating. Yes, it helps them against our LD strategy, but not every build runs sinkhole, and the ones that do can sink their mutavaults. The best chance merfolk has against this deck is to land vial and chain standstills, but even then its not a sure win for them. I'd love to hear your theory on how vial is an auto-win against pox.

And anyways to suggest splashing another color to run vindicates just to deal with vial is stupid, as I said the fetches turn on their stifles and wastelands, so you are making the matchup worse just to maybe be able to kill their vial on turn 3 or 4, and anyways if you are so worried about it you can just run Pithing needle naming vial without having to splash anything.

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I'm very surprised that a list that would beat Merfolk the way you say is good enough against the rest of the field.
Can you please post yours ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzzle

I'm very surprised that a list that would beat Merfolk the way you say is good enough against the rest of the field.
Can you please post yours ?

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And Id like to see the merfolk list as well.

I think the merfolk matchup was already addressed somewhere before in the thread. I find it to be favorable for every version of the deck (in my experience it ranges between very favorable for Bg, favorable for monoback and slightly favorable for Bw). I'm surprised to hear the contrary. I can share some lists if you want, but I don't think there's any secret tech to share.

The strength of Merfolk is in numbers, Any single merfolk isn't really scary, except maybe Wake Trasher. Every other merman alone gives a 10 turn clock (and can easily be blocked by a factory). This gives us plenty of time to get our disruption going: it shouldn't be so hard to avoid being swarmed, playing something around 10 removal (if you're playing a smaller number probably you're doing it wrong). Vial is a problem only if followed by a Standstill, otherwise I don't see how can it be an auto loss. Btw, I even managed to win a game in tournament where I was forced to break 4 Standstills.

Lists splashing for Goyf can apply more pressure, but become very vulnerable to denial.

Some other general considerations on the matchup, in no particular order:

- Remember they can't remove tombstalker (except the UW version, which doesn't see much play). If you manage to stick one, is usually gg
- You can safely ignore their first threat. Go for Hymn if you have it (and they don't have a cursecatcher). If they don't have vial, go for it even if you risk a daze. Setting them back a turn for free allows you to have more disruption going.
- Hide factories and waste if they don't have vial and you don't need them. You can trick them to drop a Standstill when you have the upper hand.
- For monoblack: powder keg set at two is a house. For Bw: explosives is even better. For Bg: pernicious deed of course is simply devastating.
- Like slylie remembered, if you fear vial there's pithing needle. Remember it can also stop mutavault, making standstill a dead card.

I don't know if this was helpful. There's something in particular you have problems to deal with?



@InfiniteJest: I like the second list more than the other, but I'm not convinced on some choices. I will elaborate better when I have more time,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzzle

I'm very surprised that a list that would beat Merfolk the way you say is good enough against the rest of the field.
Can you please post yours ?

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I never said it was good against the rest of the field, its obviously not the best deck or everyone would play it, but I find it has favorable matchups against a lot of the top decks. In my opinion it makes Merfolk and Threshold look like casual decks (which is what I test against most). I was testing last weekend vs my friend, he plays NO bant and Thresh. I think out of about 20 games we played, maybe 15 with his thresh and 5 with his bant, I might have lost 2 against each deck, including one game he kept 7 and i mulled to 4. Where I live, there might be 20-30 people TOTAL who play legacy, so my testing is limited to only a few decks.

My list changes quite often, but basically its a more traditional mono-black build, and goes a little something like:

3x Tombstalker
2x Nether Spirit
2x The Rack (I understand 90% of people will disagree with this being good, but to be honest its always been a solid card in this build)

2x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
2x Raven's Crime
4x Hymn

4x Small Pox
4x Diabolic Edict
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
3x Crucible

9x swamp
4x wasteland
3x mishra's factory
1x tomb of urami
2x Urborg, TOY
2x Bojuku Bog
2x Cabal Pit

As for the Merfolk and Thresh list, I don't know the exact lists they are pretty standard. The merfolk list is mono-blue (no splash). The thresh is canadian thresh, goyfs, mongeese, and old school werebears. The bant list, im not sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slylie

I never said it was good against the rest of the field, its obviously not the best deck or everyone would play it, but I find it has favorable matchups against a lot of the top decks. In my opinion it makes Merfolk and Threshold look like casual decks (which is what I test against most). I was testing last weekend vs my friend, he plays NO bant and Thresh. I think out of about 20 games we played, maybe 15 with his thresh and 5 with his bant, I might have lost 2 against each deck, including one game he kept 7 and i mulled to 4. Where I live, there might be 20-30 people TOTAL who play legacy, so my testing is limited to only a few decks.

My list changes quite often, but basically its a more traditional mono-black build, and goes a little something like:

3x Tombstalker
2x Nether Spirit
2x The Rack (I understand 90% of people will disagree with this being good, but to be honest its always been a solid card in this build)

2x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
2x Raven's Crime
4x Hymn

4x Small Pox
4x Diabolic Edict
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
3x Crucible

9x swamp
4x wasteland
3x mishra's factory
1x tomb of urami
2x Urborg, TOY
2x Bojuku Bog
2x Cabal Pit

As for the Merfolk and Thresh list, I don't know the exact lists they are pretty standard. The merfolk list is mono-blue (no splash). The thresh is canadian thresh, goyfs, mongeese, and old school werebears. The bant list, im not sure.

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Sorry but I'm not convinced you slaughter a decent Merfolk player.


Card-advantage-wise :
- Dark Ritual corresponds to Aether Vial : trading CA for mana advantage.
- Smallpox is unlikely to generate CA.
- With 12 basic lands + 8 non-basic + 4 Vials + a low curve on Merfolk's side, your LD and Crucibles are not likely to be very efficient.
- In fact, Crucible will be pretty limited and too often card disadvantage, corresponding to Fow, which is more card disadvantage but better quality of spell.
- your Hymns are the only real source of CA, corresponding to Merfolks' Adepts.
In short, you do not really have CA over Merfolk, neither do they against you.


Tempo-wise :
- Merfolk's classic opening of Cursecatcher or Vial is a spanner in your wheels.
- your 8 removal spells trade 1-for-1 with their 20 creatures (excluding manlands and wastes on both sides) : you can't hope to remove more than 1 creature OF THEIR CHOICE per game while they will draw 3-4 over the first 3-5 turns.
- you need to stabilize to win in this matchup.
- 3 of your lands bleed you. If you open into them, you'll bleed 3-4 life in the game, as you do need all the mana you can get.
- 2 of your lands CIPT.
- 4 of your spells bleed you.
- you are more open to Wasteland than Merfolk and if they waste you early, it will give them a lot of time to kill you.
- your discard suite, apart from Hymn, does not slow significantly down a Merfolk strategy as it doesn't rely on a given card but is a synergetic deck
- your LD, as explained above, does not slow them down very well either.
In short, Merfolk has a serious tempo advantage, which is what it thrives on.


Your main problem is that although LD and discard may stop Merfolk if pushed hard enough, the conjunction of the two on a lower scale will probably do little to hinder them.
Your best chance is to get a Tombstalker through, which means you used your discard first, which in turn means you let Merfolk develop their game tempo-wise.



All the above pre-supposes a mono-blue Merfolk.
Against a white splash, your LD improves in value but your Tombstalkers drop.
Against a green splash, your tempo problem and lack of targetted removal become pretty nasty.



You've got things going for you they are imo not big enough to call Merfolk a walk in the park. In my book, it's probably slightly negative against a competent Merfolk player.

Excellent! So this could only mean all three of my friends who play merfolk suck, and I'm just awesome.

I have my biggest mid-term exam tomorow and I don't really have time to argue with someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Crucibles are card disadvantage because they don't do much against a merfolk deck? How about maindeck edicts against combo? How about duress vs ... affinity. Jeeze. Of course there are going to be cards maindeck that have little use against other decks. I thought this was really obvious to all magic players. That said Crucible is awesome in here and generates sick card advantage late game even against merfolk. Saying its a bad because its card disadvantage is like saying smokestack is bad for the same reason.

Quote:

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Tempo-wise :
- Merfolk's classic opening of Cursecatcher or Vial is a spanner in your wheels.

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what is this supposed to mean? Aren't decks built to disrupt other decks and fight disruption?

Quote:

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- your 8 removal spells trade 1-for-1 with their 20 creatures (excluding manlands and wastes on both sides) : you can't hope to remove more than 1 creature OF THEIR CHOICE per game while they will draw 3-4 over the first 3-5 turns.

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Yeh I guess I should switch out edict for barter in blood.

Quote:

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- you need to stabilize to win in this matchup.

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thanks for the tip, I'll remember that next time I try to go aggro with my 5 creatures.

Quote:

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- 3 of your lands bleed you. If you open into them, you'll bleed 3-4 life in the game, as you do need all the mana you can get.

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1. the fact they win/save games makes up for the 'blood'. 2. with urborg out, they tap without pain. 3. They are the first to be sacced/discarded to smallpox, since they are most useful late game and with crucible out.

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- 2 of your lands CIPT.

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Last I checked Tormods crypt doesn't tap for mana.

Quote:

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- 4 of your spells bleed you.

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? Hello and welcome to the pox thread... there is a lot of bleeding going on.

Quote:

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- you are more open to Wasteland than Merfolk and if they waste you early, it will give them a lot of time to kill you.

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Yeh and the wastelands suck against burn decks so I guess I should take them out.

Quote:

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- your discard suite, apart from Hymn, does not slow significantly down a Merfolk strategy as it doesn't rely on a given card but is a synergetic deck

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Discard isn't good against aggro? damn.. ok I guess I should move it all to the board?

Quote:

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- your LD, as explained above, does not slow them down very well either.
In short, Merfolk has a serious tempo advantage, which is what it thrives on.

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Thanks for the matchup analysis, a heck of a lot of stuff said that doesn't really say much. Again my friends are pretty good players yet somehow I often end up with the board like me with 3 lands, a creature, and a card in hand vs. them with no lands, a vial, no creatures and no cards in hand. I guess its cause im smart enough not to constantly tap my pain lands to 'bleed' myself to death. Pox isn't a tempo deck, isn't aggro nor dedicated control. It pretty much wins the game by blowing up everything, and having the ability to recover through reccuring effects like bloodghast, neither spirit, crucible, raven's crime, ect.

You say that pox has no way to generate card advantage, well let me make it simple.

You have no creature out, you smallpox. Discarding neither spirit (or bloodghast). Sacrifice a land. Cards "lost" 1 smallpox spell. (considering land can be played again, and discarded creature can be played from grave.)
Opponent discards a spell, sacs a creature, a land.. binning three cards that they will never get back. Once a crucible is down the card advantage is just too much for merfolk. You can block/kill everything they have with recurring factories, you can waste their mutavaults over and over, you can pick off their team with cabal pit one at a time (or a 4/4 every other turn). Dark ritual allows for explosive plays like turn 1 sinkhole/duress on the draw, turn 1 crucible, turn 1 eplague out of the board. Its card disadvantage, yes but its needed to bring up its game against problem matchups.

I'm guessing the people responding in the thread saying merfolk kills pox are just disgruntled merfolk players that are getting tired of losing games to it. I've noticed the people who make solid contributions in the thread and actually play the deck KNOW that merfolk is a good matchup for us. We discussed it before and I'm sure someone who knows the deck better than I do can explain better why it is.

Merfolk is going to be an uphill battle for pox. I would never leave home without 4 eplagues in the board. Pox makes it's living by beating aggro control, combo and dedicated control (excluding loam type decks).

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First of all, I love the direction your deck is going. Using the entomb to get answers for most decks game 1. I like it.

Some ideas, you know the deck better than I but maybe more questions than suggestions?

1. Why not 1 of Bojuku Bog maindeck?
2. I know its a tall order, but 1 of Taberknackle?
3. Since entomb is so good in this deck, why not up the number to 3, or 4?
4. I think the discard is a bit much. Why does funeral charm make the cut?
5. Why no urborg? You can tap the pit without paying life, tap wastelands for (b), tabernacle, ect.

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hey, sorry for the late reply, but i was playtesting a lot and messed around a bit.
my changes so far
-2 swamps
+1 bojuka bog (vs ichorid it was good to have instant gy hate + recurring wasteland synergy)
+1 gargoyle castle (pretty good in this deck)

updated list:

Creatures:

4x Bloodghast
1x Necroplasm
1x Nether Spirit

Spells:

4x Dark Ritual
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Funeral Charm
4x Innocent Blood
3x Thoughtseize
4x Smallpox
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Duress
2x Entomb
1x Raven's Crime
1x Syphon Life

Lands:

12x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacomb
4x Wasteland
1x Gargoyle Castle
1x Cabal Pit
1x Bojuka Bog

Sideboard:

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Engineered Plague
3x Dystopia
4x Extirpate
1x Bojuka Bog

i tested tabernacle as well but i came to the conclusion that it doesn't help me too much, because i dont pull on enough pressure to destroy my opponents lands

i'm thinking of adding 2 copies of sceletal scrying. what do you guys think? maybe another copy of entomb?

greetings and sorry for bad english =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InfiniteJest

Anyone have any imput on the Smallpox depths variants??

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Here's the more detailed answer I promised.

First of all I think Bg (small)pox is a powerful shell for the combo. In my opinion there are two possible routes: an aggro-control with the added "bonus" of a fast finisher or a combo-control build. The two lists you posted are taking the first route, so I will focus on that one. Btw, before I wrote that I liked the second list more, but it was a mistake, in fact I prefer the first one. Let's look at what doesn't convince me.

- Crucible of worlds: IMHO Life From the Loam is strictly better. Not only does it cost one mana less (an important issue, if you are smallpoxing on tun 2), but can dredge into all sort of good things, like therapies, ghast and of course the combo pieces, that you can then recover with Grim Discovery.

- Ghastly demise: I am not sure about this one. I doesn't answer t1 nacatl or lackey (unless you fetched), and this is the only good reason I can see for running it. If you want a targeted removal for :b:, maybe wretched banquet is better. Otherwise, there's always good old Innocente blood, or, if you are not concerned about the CC, you can go for smother or shriekmaw ( which can also be recurred via grim discovery and can act as a finisher in the late game.

- Volrath's Stronghold: it could be a powerful addition to the deck, even as a 1-of. Don't know how your manabase is performing, though.

- Board: I will change a lot of it. I can't really understand what the confidant are for: when do you side them in? The Treetop village looks pretty random, I don't know when you would like to wish for instead of stalker. A single faerie macabre can also substitute a trap, being wishable. I think you may also need the usual krosan grips and maybe something against combo. This is what I would assemble:


1 Tombstalker
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Other grave hate
1 Maze Of Ith
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
3 Krosan Grip
3 Duress (can also be trinisphere to capitalize your denial, but might be a bit slow, since you don't play mox)

Let me know if I missed some reason behind your choices, and if you find my comments unreasonable.



@ Merfolk:

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Pox makes it's living by beating aggro control

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Merfolk is an aggro control deck. It's definitely slower than zoo or goblin. To overcome a single nether spirit they need a lord, two for a factoy. Usually it's not hard to keep their creature count low. Smallpox here is a powerful tempo card, it can set them back for a turn or even two.

I think you are underestimating how good standstill jitte and vial are, cards pox traditionally has no answers for. I'm not saying it's an entirely un-winnable match up but saying it's strictly positive is misguided. I guess it is indeed aggro control, but they aim to get more than one creature on the field. This is much more difficult to deal with than a single tarmogoyf. Preboard the matchup is better than goblins, but not overwhelmingly so.

Also smallpox gets much worse after a resolved vial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clavio

I think you are underestimating how good standstill jitte and vial are, cards pox traditionally has no answers for. I'm not saying it's an entirely un-winnable match up but saying it's strictly positive is misguided. I guess it is indeed aggro control, but they aim to get more than one creature on the field. This is much more difficult to deal with than a single tarmogoyf. Preboard the matchup is better than goblins, but not overwhelmingly so.

Also smallpox gets much worse after a resolved vial.

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It appears that we have had a different experience with the matchup. I'm not trying to convince you that the matchup is in fact positive, when you feel it's not, just giving some last tips, hoping to be helpful. As a side note, I don't think merfolk it's a piece of cake, just that it is in general positive.

I find smallpox to be the best card to combat vial. Vial is scary to me if it allows them to deploy many creatures each turn. With smallpox I can:

- remove a creature in play
- remove a land, making harder for them to drop 2 creatures next turn
- remove (maybe) a creature in hand
- have (maybe) a free nether spirit to block with next turn

I'm not underestimating Standstill + Vial. In fact I think their better chance to beat us is chaining standstills. But Standstill without vial can be useless. In fact it happened that some of my opponents sided them out, or brought pithing needle (for factories) in, thus diluting their aggro potential. The last suggestion I would like to make if you really need something to combat merfolk is Culling Scales. It will hit a fish every turn, and can remove vial and jitte.