[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Deck list from SCG St. Louis
Main Board (61)
Dudes (14)
4 Vets
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarada
1 Baneslayer Angel
non-dudes (25)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Tops
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Therapy
3 GSZ
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Living Wish
3 Deed
1 Jitte
1 StP
2 Decay
1 Batterskull
Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdnant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Board
1 Karakas
1 Bog
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ashen Rider
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tsumani
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Humility
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Innocent Blood

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thotcrime

Firstly, my NicFit doesn't assume a gender role, it's trans.

Secondly, taking a step back for a little objectivity is a good thing and necessary for non-tier 1 decks.

I can't speak whatsoever for BUG or Scapewish. I have never piloted those decks, so I won't address them.

From a Punishing Jund perspective:

I hate blue magic. Jace, FoW, Counterbalance, Show and Tell, Brainstorm, etc etc can all end up in the trash bin. When I sit across from a player and see any variety of blue fetchland t1, I groan inside because I know that this won't be a game of magic, it will be an act of irritation in which everything I try to do is shut down by cheap, cheaty spells. Therapy? Brainstorm lol. Vet? Force, 'cuz fuck you!
I will be the first to admit that the Punishing variance absolutely sucks fuck against anything that doesn't play fair magic. The titular goddamned card might as well be a Grizzly Bear if your opponent isn't playing a creature deck.
That said, our SB allows us to turn into a combo-hating pile of fun. More 1CMC discard, red counterspells, elf-plagues, island-hating goodness, brainstorm-extractions. Game 2 against combo is when I remember that sometimes magic can be fun. The scales start to even out when we don't autolose on turn 2/3. However, we still can't fight combo if we don't draw the hate. I basically automull until I see REB.

The strength of PJund is also its weakness, its adaptability. Because we are part aggro/control/even a little combo, we don't serve any of those roles at 100% efficiency. That means we need to draw what when need when we need it or we lose the game.

Maybe 4 SDT is correct? Maybe you BUG types got it right with Brainstorm/JTMS. I hope not, because blue makes me ill.

We certainly are missing a piece of the puzzle. Maybe the card(s) we need haven't been printed yet. Is it possible that we aren't seeing a glaringly obvious solution?

Before I forget: you mentioned Tsunami, is From the Ashes comparable?

Something else on my mind is the apparent softness of our creatures. Prime Titan/Thrag/Hunts/Ooze are all very easy to kill with StP/Bolt and we are left sitting on an empty board waiting for a finisher. That is probably the biggest weakness of the deck, and something you briefly touched on. Our midrange game is generally dependent on 1 maybe 2 creatures turning sideways, easily-disrupted by removal.
Let's consider creatures that dodge removal/better ensure timely victory.

Sigarda - arguably the best Junk beater, period. She almost can't die, afaik the only creature able to block it is:
Tombstalker - I haven't seen this fuck played whatsoever in NicFit. Our GYs aren't as easily delved as say BUG Delver, but we still do our fair share of card-burning. He can't be Decayed and wins in 4 turns.
Thrun - obv a badass, but often a 5 turn clock.
Terra Stomper - why doesn't this bastard have haste? It lives through a hefty Deed-splosion and dodges Decay.
Gaea's Revenge - rips up an empty board, almost impossible to kill without mass-removal. Very easily blocked however.
Stormbreath Dragon - yeah I might be going out on a limb, but he swings through Baneslayer and can't be StPd or Decayed. If he ever goes monstrous, you're probably looking at a 3 turn clock.
Akroma, Angel of Fury - bit 'spensive, but lol good luck with that removal spell
Mistcutter Hydra - not very impressive, but can swiftly shut down a game against blue-based combo
Petrified Wood-kin - this card looks so fucking juicy, counter all instants wtf? kinda sucks a lot without bloodthirst.
Spellbreaker Behemoth - eh? eh?


IMO we need fast beaters to seal up games. Shroud/uncounterable/haste/etc etc. Man red Akroma looks promising...


edit: my red creatures are useless with GSZ in hand. Is 3 GSZ/4 SDT any more viable?

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Finding the perfect balance between control element and beaters is a difficult part in Punishing Fit.
But I have to admit that finding the perfect timing to go aggro is without any doubt the most difficult part.

Hence, I am no so fond about looking for "St Graal" of beaters or fast beaters, value and perfect timing are already a thing.

Once you have stabilized, it is pretty easy to identify which one of your creature package will be the most effective given a particular frame of turns/opp's decks.
Basically, it comes down to a simple question:
- Do they have any cards left in their hands when I'm searching for my most effective beater (and so a potential removal) ?
- If not, everything is based on the topdeck draw luck.

To sum it up: Have it or lose it.

Usually, if I get to untap & attack with a beater, the match is likely mine or if none of my beater could stick the board, PF will eventually get the job done.

Finally, if you look at our threats when hands are depleted, I think our creature package is actually really scary:

1) Past T10 or when graves are full of dead creatures (PF, liliana, deed), Ooze is usually a T2 clock as a vanilla 10/10 is all what you need.
2) Mr Hunt requires REaction from aggro/combo/control archetypes. If left unchecked, oh well, job's done.
3) Thrag is for emergency only.
4) Garruk cannot be fetched. But he really shines in control mirror so that eventually you will draw him.
5) Primeval is the ultra late game bomb I no longer play but with 2 towers it means inevitability.

And I'm not counting hundred of games won just by shocking/lava spiking my opponent with the all mighty witness and our great veteran.

As a general overview, games tend to follow this simple path:

1) Develop your mana base = veteran / top
2) Take control of the game by depleting opp's ressources/creating more CA than them:
- board ressources ( mostly creature) = liliana, PF, Deed, witness recurring removal
- hand ressources = liliana / cabal + flashback / witness recurring discard
3) once the board is clear and opponent DEPLETED (or almost), land the most effective threat to quicken the clock = 1st Hunt, 2nd Thrag & 3rd Ooze (the later, the bigger)

Nothing special, just timing. I might be breaking open doors but playing one of your finisher into a STP IS a really bad move. At least, wait until the path is clear (discard/liliana or make your opponent throw STP to witness or veteran etc...)

PS @ anyone: Any ideas for a fifth cheap green beater (CMC 1 or 2 max) which is not a goyf nor a geist (to rape combo) ?

Cheap green beaters.. hmmmm Wolfbitten Captive is cute, gets nasty if left unchallenged. Mold Adder. Nissa's Chosen will always be tutorable if it doesn't eat a StP. Scute Mob. Strangleroot Geist.
....Nimble Mongoose...

Ah, that was fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thotcrime

Cheap green beaters.. hmmmm Wolfbitten Captive is cute, gets nasty if left unchallenged. Mold Adder. Nissa's Chosen will always be tutorable if it doesn't eat a StP. Scute Mob. Strangleroot Geist.
....Nimble Mongoose...

Ah, that was fun.

---

I was thinking great stable stag, Silhana Ledgewalker (with equipment), witchstalker?

Brief Report from St. Louis.

Round 1: Werewolf/Godo Stompy
Game 1: TS reveals a bunch of nonsense but batterskull beats go far. Out: vet x 1, mystic x1 in: deluge, humility
Game 2: I die fairly quickly to Skull beats. He killed his own chalice with a manic vandal after I flipped my top.
Game 3: I end up seeing an inferno titan but pulse ruins that batterskull cleans up.
1-0 (2-1) no mulls

Round 2: Miracles
Game 1: I mull to 6 and TS his top away. Sadly to some quick angels. In: Tsunami x2, surgical, deluge, humility out: vet, mystic, ooze, swords, ?
Game 2: He mulls to 5 but makes a lot game out of it. I tsunami him at least once and grind him out.
Game 3: Short of time, I tsunami him again to keep him off jace mana. But he gets there. I think I had a chance to get a Sigarda out but choose to wish for the revoker. Sadly, it didn't work out. Should have gotten the draw.
1-1 (3-3) 1 mull

Round 3: American Delver
Game 1: Very close one. I die to a jitte'd up Mystic. In: Pridgemage, Deluge, Surgical Out: Teeg, Ooze, GSZ
Game 2 : I pretty much just get run over.
1-2 (3-5)

Round 4: Elves
Game 1: 2 turn mystic for jitte, turn 3 deed (kill your 2 arbors), equip and swing with jitte. In: Revoker, Deluge, Humility Out: Top, Ooze, Decay
Game 2 :We both mull, him to 5. But I still get hoofed.
Game 3: I'm in a good spot...teeg, baneslayer, mystic in play. 2nd mystic joins in and gets BS (jitte got saged). He has a dead GSZ in hand with enough mana to get hoof. I have a humility in hand but Teeg in play. I have Karakas to bounce teeg but maybe not enough white mana to play humility. I might have had a therapy in the yard. 27 to 7 in my favor. He plays a dryad arbor and then casts hoof. 41 damage coming in. Sadly, I can only soak up twelve of it from toughness/life gain. Ugh.
1-3 (4-7) 2 mulls

Round 5: Tin Fins
Game 1: I get turn oned. Oof. In: Surgical, Traps x2, Ashen Rider, Revoker, Innocent Blood Out: Don't remember
Game 2: I turn off his petal with revokers but it doesn't matter that much after draws a bunch with Griselbees.
1-4 (4-9)

At this point, I can't win any money and I need to relax. I stay in because people in my car are still doing well.

Round 6: Dredge
Game 1: I bog him at one point and he almost comes back....but he dredges too much and decks himself. In: surgical...traps? Out; 2 ts
Game 2: Turn 1'd again. TS back in.
Game 3: no enablers from him allows me to get the ooze and rip apart his graveyard.
2-4 (6-10) 2 mulls

Round 7: Meathooks
Game 1: I'm under no real threat and proceed to run over him. In: Deluge, Pridemage Out: Teeg, Ooze
Game 2: He had some early pressure but they died to a deed. Baneslayer cleans up.
3-4 (8-10) 3 mulls

Round 8: BUG
Game 1: Long game one of attrition. I somehow keep a batterskull in play while dealing with his threats (I think stronghold did some work with fleshbag). In: Deluge, Tsunami x2, surgical out: teeg, gsz, ts, vet
Game 2: Tsunami wrecks him well. Easy win.
4-4 (10-10)

Round 9: D+T
Game 1: Deed blows up his world and I assemble voltron. In: Deluge, Revoker, Pridemage Out: Vet, Ooze, TS
Game 2: Some early beats from him but recurring pridemage or fleshbag does lots of work.

5-4 (12-10) 3 mulls

Overall thoughts:
Thoughtseize seems better in the board. The life loss wasn't bad but a dead card late sucks. Better for combo.
SFM is awesome as usual. Getting the vet/therapy combo and then playing SFM is silly.
Mana base still seems fine. The main deck karakas got no use, though. The towers were good. Almost wanting another fetchland instead of a dual.
Wish package was good. Wanted hexmage for Jace still.
Starting to think Deluge should be main. Maybe cutting the 2nd decay for it.
Tsunami was pretty awesome. The traps and surgical are still good against combo. The blood and rider will probably be something else next time (probably thoughtseizes)

Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thotcrime

Cheap green beaters.. hmmmm Wolfbitten Captive is cute, gets nasty if left unchallenged. Mold Adder. Nissa's Chosen will always be tutorable if it doesn't eat a StP. Scute Mob. Strangleroot Geist.
....Nimble Mongoose...

Ah, that was fun.

---

Thanks.
I'll test Mold Adder.
Nissa is no better than Geist
Scute Mob/Nimble (Great cards) & Wolfbitten are just too slow.

@Jbone: I am looking @CMC 2 !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Deck list from SCG St. Louis
Main Board (61)
Dudes (14)
4 Vets
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda
1 Baneslayer Angel
non-dudes (25)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Tops
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Therapy
3 GSZ
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Living Wish
3 Deed
1 Jitte
1 StP
2 Decay
1 Batterskull
Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdnant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Board
1 Karakas
1 Bog
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ashen Rider
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tsumani
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Humility
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Innocent Blood

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These are the changes I would make (based on your reports):

Main Board (60)

Dudes (14)

4 Vets
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali pridemage -> coming from the board. Could also be a Reclamation sage, but I like Qasali.
1 Knight of the Reliquary ->one of the best creature in junk color. Can fetch Volrath/karakas. Not to mention the psychological impact of this card.
3 Stoneforge Mystic -> 3 SFM for 2 equipments feels like a better number
1 Scooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda

non-dudes (24)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Tops
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Therapy
3 GSZ
3 Living Wish
3 Deed
1 Jitte
1 StP
2 Decay
1 Batterskull

Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flat
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian tower

BOARD & WISHBOARD

1 Bog
1 Orzhov Pontiff -> great tool against tribal. 5 mana could be an issue unless you go T2 for wish and play it on T3.
1 Mangara of Corondor -> against control, this card is bonker. Not to mention the nasty trick with karakas.
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Humility
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Thalia -> another strong piece of combohate
1 Stain the mind/Cranial extraction -> Combo/Control
1 Sorin, lord of Innistrad / elspeth -> whatever but both help shearing control MU.

That would be a good start for testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Thanks.
I'll test Mold Adder.
Nissa is no better than Geist
Scute Mob/Nimble (Great cards) & Wolfbitten are just too slow.

@Jbone: I am looking @CMC 2 !

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Rakshasa Deathdealer from Khans looks kinda cute as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I firmly believe that Nic Fit's current struggle relates directly to its finishers. At the core, most Nic Fits are some degree of control. Some are a bit more aggro than others, some a bit more combo...but there's an inherent control game that comes from playing with Therapy + easy flashback means + Deeds + spot removal, with Top for card quality and lots of x-for-1s for virtual card advantage (ie Huntmaster, Thrag, etc).

The problem with a control deck's finisher is that the card in question needs to be evasive, protected, and a quick clock to prevent answers. Sigarda is the perfect answer here. She's a 4 turn clock (assuming no lifegain), she flies, and she used to be damn near unkillable. Miracles plays 4 Terminus, 1-2 Verdict, and 2-3 Council's Judgment + on average 2-3 Snapcasters. This isn't taking into account the Clique + Karakas permablock. Shardless is now playing multiple copies of Baleful Strix maindeck, along with at least 2 Toxic Deluge, and they draw approx a million cards to find them all. Deathblade can just race you with TNN(s) + equips, but they also have CliqueRakas, Judgments, Verdicts, and Snapcasters.

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http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...5821086371.png

Looks like Khans gives us the right creature with the wrong colors.

I know it's a bit heretical and you specifically said to exclude it but I do think tarmogoyf is overly ignored by Nic-Fit. I love having one available as a zenith target when playing stoneforge based lists. You just won't get a better cheap beater elsewhere. Sure it sucks if you have to deed it away later but the same applies to the rest of the beater suggestions outside of strangleroot or the new rakasha dude.

With junk lists a 2cmc selection of Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Goyf, and Scooze gives you a lot of powerful options to zenith for early in the game.

As we are closing in on page #400, I'm getting a little concerned that this thread is both too unwieldy and closing in on the maximum page limit on the forums. As such, I've given myself a swift kick in the ass to actually get the updated primer done and get everything ready to move to a new thread.

So far everything's going pretty fine -- I'm making this one much nicer than our current model. I'm also stealing some of Bryant's ideas from the TES primer. To that end: if you know of the location of any feature matches or video top8 footage for the archetype as a whole (not worried about which version), please either post it or PM it to me so I can put it in the appropriate section of the new primer.

I also want HoneyT or Ralf's updated Punishing Fire list. I went back a few pages to try to find one and got frustrated and gave up. There's a few areas (like matchup analysis) that will need done for other versions that I'm not familiar with, but I'll hold off on that until it's up and people can see the formatting style I used for it so they can copy the style and keep it cohesive.

Oh, and if anyone wants to volunteer to make us a header image for the primer, that would be sweet. My artistic skills begin and end with stick figures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

I know it's a bit heretical and you specifically said to exclude it but I do think tarmogoyf is overly ignored by Nic-Fit. I love having one available as a zenith target when playing stoneforge based lists. You just won't get a better cheap beater elsewhere. Sure it sucks if you have to deed it away later but the same applies to the rest of the beater suggestions outside of strangleroot or the new rakasha dude.

With junk lists a 2cmc selection of Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Goyf, and Scooze gives you a lot of powerful options to zenith for early in the game.

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No. I don't exclude it.
I'm just trying to gather ideas and make a bunch of test with them.

A few pages back, I said I was testing Tarmo & Geist in the 2-CMC slot to compete for my cheapest beatstick/combo-kneebreaker.
Let's weight the pros and cons of both, and to be honest I have yet to decide between them, that is why I want to explore new horizons/ideas.

The best ever printed vanilla beatstick @ 2-CMC for legacy against a poor damn guy.
We all know how much Tarmo is strong & powerful as we have all died a lot from its repeated assaults.
But let's try to answer these simple questions:
1) Is Tarmo our best 1/2-CMC green threat against combo in terms of race ?
2) Does Tarmo bring enough on the table to be an auto include in Nic Fit (at least PF version) ?

For the demonstration purpose, let's consider the following:
- We will most likely only (90 %) fetch for those guys through a GSZ, so that double green is a non issue. Not to mention that if you spot that your are playing against combo you have no issue in fetching for duals only.
- Tarmo is a 4/5 by T3 (instant, sorcery, lands, artefact = brainstorm, ponder, fetch, petal/LED)
- Strangleroot geist is a 3/2 by T3 (flashbacked therapy on him)
- Opponents are at 16 life points by T4

1) THE RACE

Tarmo's cumulative output damage
T4 -> 4
T5 -> 8
T6 -> 12
T7 -> 16

Geist's cumulative output damage
T3 -> 3
T4 -> 6
T5 -> 9
T6 -> 12
T7 -> 15
T8 -> 18

Tarmo is a winner, here. Even more if Tarmo is a 5/6 (Planeswalker/enchantment/creature). But Geist could also be pretty decent.

2) Synergy with the deck (or how does both beatstick are playing against the rest of the field be it control or aggro):

- Therapy folder = winner Geist
- Removal proof (save STP) = winner Geist
- Removal proof against STP = Goyf (more HP gain)
- Blocker = winner Goyf
- Deed proof = winner Geist
- Recursive potential with EWitness on an empty board = winner Geist
- Recursive potential with EWitness on a clogged board = winner Goyf
- Casting cost = winner Goyf

As long as synergy with the deck matters, Geist is IMHO a winner.

Conclusion ?

Finally, do I have proved anything. No.
When it comes to a pure race, Goyf is a clear winner.
But in terms of disruption & race ? How can we properly evaluate the efficiency of being able to therapy twice a combo player (could be extended to control/aggro player) and still putting him on a decent clock ?
How much does the blocking potential of a goyf outclass Geist's one ?
How efficient is to be able to deed a board and still get a 3/2 attacking creature ?
How much does it matter in legacy that a lone goyf is oneshot by Abrupt Decay or by an opposite Liliana ?
How much Tarmo is impacted during G2 & G3, especially when my dryad militant and opposite AD/removal come in the battle?

I have no clue nor perfect answers to all of them. But I wanted to write down the equation I am struggling with.
The only one I could see is : practise, practise and practise more.

Always glad to discuss strong options and get some insights from all of you.

Cheers.

Here you go Kevin (and everyone else):

// Deck: P-Fire Nic Fit (60)

// Lands
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
1 Broodmate Dragon
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer

// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

List for current unknown/SCG metagame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Thrun + karakas could be decent, though maybe not for nic fit.

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In the same vein, we could consider bringing back the two towers engine. It's slow but it renders it practically impossible to get rid of your threats. You can play around drs by activating tower then leaving stronghold + mana open.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

Here you go Kevin (and everyone else):

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P.370 -> Click

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

P.370 -> Click

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Ralf, why did you cut 1 top? I've recently started playing with 4 tops, and I can't ever imagine going down to 3. I always want to have top, it feels like such an important card to a deck that has no other way to filter cards

On another note:

Anyone tried Stormbreath Dragon in Punishing Fit? Seems like it could do some work. Prot white and haste seems very strong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by litenkatt

Ralf, why did you cut 1 top? I've recently started playing with 4 tops, and I can't ever imagine going down to 3. I always want to have top, it feels like such an important card to a deck that has no other way to filter cards

On another note:

Anyone tried Stormbreath Dragon in Punishing Fit? Seems like it could do some work. Prot white and haste seems very strong

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So I put back the 4th top a few months ago while most PF lists were still on 3 MD to hedge against BUG decks.
It was good.
You are certainly right, cutting it again, a few weeks ago, back to 3, is certainly not the best move but at least I can explain why:

Punchline: "You should not keep a bad starting hand even if you have a top in it"

Same old story with brainstorm, I guess ?

We want to see a top in every match. But I am no longer dying for a top in my starting hand as I am always keen to snap keep it and it has firebacked at me quite a few times (because I'm bad).
Not to mention that my meta switched back to more combo orientated (T2/T3 kill) again and TOP is sooooooo slow sometimes...
Furthermore, space is rather tight (as it has always been the case).

Anyway, playing 4 tops in my list and going up to 61 cards MD is rather a non issue and might be a good call because I tend to flood regularly with my 22 land configuration (since I lowered the whole curve) and each time I try 21 lands, I'm disappointed -> 21,5 could be the perfect number I'm looking for.

BUT, this will require "cutting" something else when I'll be pleased with the tests I am currently running to include another cheap beater (Be it Goyf/Geist or whatever).

As for Stormbreath Dragon, I'd say there are two major drawbacks:
- non green is a big issue because as a 1-of, you won't be able to see him regularly when you would want him.
- it is not a "full value" kind of guy nor a "full utility guy": it does not provide card advantage or virtual card advantage and his monstruous ability is meh meh meh...

Unfortunately, I would stick with Broodmate Dragon if I were to play huge flying beasts because at least it is GSZable and you have 2 bodies instead of 1.

For the punishing fit players, why not Broodmate Dragon? Not easily answered since it makes two men, flies, puts 8 power on board, and can be Green Sun'd.

Edit: Didnt read the post above mine. Derp

New thread & primer is up, just in case any of you have this thread directly bookmarked and wouldn't have seen it: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...r-Deck-Nic-Fit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

New thread & primer is up, just in case any of you have this thread directly bookmarked and wouldn't have seen it: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...r-Deck-Nic-Fit

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Good job so far on the new primer.

But Azban and Sultai.... Seriously? WotC did some Bingo with letters. Banza was suggested as a joke, but it's kind of catchy for the JUNK colors. Anyway i think we should pimp those names, cus those just sound lame.

Edit: one day that JUND pod is gonna be cracked. Soo close....