[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by jimmythegreek

Seems that most of the newer goblins are designed for the casual player not the competitive. As a fan of the tribe its kind of infuriating wizards cant produce a decent, playable goblin. We really need a power boost to keep this deck tier 1/2 competitive. Im interested in hearing from others what the realistic/ideal goblin would look like.

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I would love to see THIS guy printed. It seems fair and cool. The 3cc 2/2 shatter goblin is another that could be around.
But we already had this discussions sometimes before in this thread. In the end it's just pointless...

So, I could not sleep and was wondering how to port the RB Gator List I've been playing to monored. The problem of the first one is the manabase, while the 2nd one get worse removal and don't get Earwig Squad, which is bonkers. Still, was thinking about what cards I really miss in bug, Rug, UWR and cia matchups. Realized that I really miss Mogg Warmarchall there, so came up with the idea of bringing them in when I want most. What do you think?

4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
9 Mountain

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader

3 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Piledriver

1 Mogg Warmarchall
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss / Gempalm

1 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger

SB
2 Mindbreak Trap
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle

1 Boartusk Liege
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

2 Pyrokinesis
1 Dismember

2 Mogg Warmarchall
Yet to test this, but loved the SB configurations on the 3 color matchups.
What do you guys think?

If every tribe gets all these new toys we should at least get a 2 drop shatter goblin, but all we get is man-o'-war with echo and cards that are fringe playable in draft. How about {1}{R} Flash; Counter target blue spell. 2/2? or {1}{R} Haste; When X comes into play deal 2 damage divided as you choose. 2/2. Hell even {1}{R} You may destroy target artifact. 2/2 would be a step in the right direction for Wizard's to support all the tribes equally. I'd even accept an errata that made True-Name Nemesis and Deathrite Shaman both humans.

I would love a goblin that flies yes i know there is goblin balloon brigade but thats not strong enough,
Or even better a goblin that can destroy a artifact or enchantment.

something like R + G/W 2/1
if you pay R + G destroy artifact
if you pay R + W destroy enchantment

or just the unbanning of goblin recruiter:tongue:
true named nemesis is 10 times stronger than recruiter why is that not banned?

Iam also thinking about trying this build

Land (22)
3x Auntie's Hovel
4x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Mountain
1x Swamp
4x Wasteland

Creature (26)
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Goblin Warchief
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Gempalm incinerator
2x Stingscourger
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie

Instant (3)
3x Tarfire

Sorcery (5)
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Warren Weirding

Artifact (4)
4x Æther Vial

Sideboard (15)
4x Earwig Squad
3x Pyrokinesis
4x Skirk Prospector
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

Main cabal therapys look so strong against combo. Post game remove the vials for the skirk prospector for more accelaration and get the earwigs in there fast. Take out the combo and win:)
Pyrikonesis looks verry strong against elves. Surgical works against every deck. There is nog graveyard hate except for 2x surgical extraction. Tuktuk for ensnaring bridge and the like. Tarfire just one more card to get lacky through.
Wort Boggart Auntie how nice would it be to tarfire/stingscourger/gempalm incinerator or matron over and over again...
The 2 stingscourger gives you a game against the tarmogoyfs and Sneak and Show builds.


iam verry curious what you guys think of this build

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Originally Posted by dissy

I would love a goblin that flies yes i know there is goblin balloon brigade but thats not strong enough,
Or even better a goblin that can destroy a artifact or enchantment.

something like R + G/W 2/1
if you pay R + G destroy artifact
if you pay R + W destroy enchantment

or just the unbanning of goblin recruiter:tongue:
true named nemesis is 10 times stronger than recruiter why is that not banned?

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Unfortunately Recruiter wont get unbanned. It's stupid powerful with food chain, as well as it takes a long long time to play with.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

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http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vma/254.jpg
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Some turns later he has Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman, which are able to eat creatures revealed with Grenzo, even before they hit the battlefield.

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That, for sure, doesn't work. Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman have activated abilities: your opponent needs to have priority in order to activate them. There is no moment, during the resolution of a spell or ability, that either player gets priority. In this case, there is no moment between putting the card on the bottom and putting it into play that a player gets priority.

Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman don't affect Grenzo's ability

DRS and Ooze don't affect Grnezo's ability. However, if Grenzo's ability puts a card in the graveyard and it isn't a Goblin, then that card only feeds those two.

EDIT: I apologise, copletely misread both your comment and the comment you quoted. I believe you are right; they can't eat the creatures you reveal, because Grenzo's ability is a single ability, so nothing can come inbetween that.

Apparently I was paranoid about Scavenging Ooze, DRS and Grenzo's interaction. In the actual situation I described DRS and Ooze didn't actually get to remove my creatures, rather I held back Grenzo's activations whenever my opponent had G mana open, because I thought they would be able to eat my creatures.
This, however, doesn't change the fact that Grenzo is about the worst card I tested in quite a while.

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Originally Posted by potatodavid

Unfortunately Recruiter wont get unbanned. It's stupid powerful with food chain, as well as it takes a long long time to play with.

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This might be a dumb question... But if Recruiter was unbanned, would it have any effect on modern goblins? Like if they're like "here you go have it back" tomorrow what MU would it improve?

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

This might be a dumb question... But if Recruiter was unbanned, would it have any effect on modern goblins? Like if they're like "here you go have it back" tomorrow what MU would it improve?

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Thats a two part question, if they reprinted it it still wouldn't make it legacy legal, and it would only be playable in modern if they reprinted matron and ringleader to go with it. Also if they unbanned recruiter in legacy it would improve a ton of our match-ups and give us a combo finish from nowhere like elves has.

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Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher

Thats a two part question, if they reprinted it it still wouldn't make it legacy legal, and it would only be playable in modern if they reprinted matron and ringleader to go with it. Also if they unbanned recruiter in legacy it would improve a ton of our match-ups and give us a combo finish from nowhere like elves has.

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And we wouldn't be Vial Goblins anymore. We'd be Food Chain goblins. Which is good, but a different archetype and I would argue, much better.

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

This might be a dumb question... But if Recruiter was unbanned, would it have any effect on modern goblins? Like if they're like "here you go have it back" tomorrow what MU would it improve?

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Every MU would improve. Food Chain + Recruiter allows us to T2 kill, improving our game against Combo and control. And Recruiter alone lets us guarantee that once we have a few lands we'll never draw a non-goblin the rest of the game, guaranteeing wins agains fair decks.

Still, I would not want Recruiter unbanned for two reasons. First, playing Goblins as combo doesn't seem as fun. Second, playing against someone who is taking ten minutes to stack their deck each game sounds excruciating.

It may sound excruciating but at least it would make us T1 again and no longer have to rely on the sideboard to beat the unfair match-ups.

I play alot of ichorid combo and I really enjoy switching back to a more combat related deck. The idea of combo goblins just seems wrong....part of playing goblins is partaking in the grind and sometimes just out aggroing the fuck out of your opponent the old fashioned way. I spent a ton of money on show and tell and let me tell you something, shit gets old quick. I understand everyone is entitled to there own style and preference but winning with goblins just feels right. Theres something to be said for "fair magic" and I believe its only a matter of time before we get a goblin that allows for more top eight appearences. Fuck your turn one kill, I just killed you with a horde of retards on turn six.

Well , the argument that combo goblins feels wrong is loose. The deck would involve combat math and fair wins like now , plus a possible combo finish. I think it would be even more fun to play.
Plus I'm not convinced that food chain goblins would be better than vial goblins, because resolving a 3 mana enchantment would be a very difficult quest against most of the field (mainly tempo), considering it would be the first and sometimes unique target for counters due to cavern of souls. In the end, swapping vial for food chain would open the possibility of fast combo kills, but overall lessen the consistency and reliability of the deck (we all know how vial is essential and how our deck sometimes feels clunky without vial).
In fact i'm not totally convinced i would play food chain if recruiter was unbanned... probably i would just jam some copies of him in vial goblins. This way the deck would gain inevitability against other fair decks, and we could return to the old strategy crush every fair deck and heavy sideboard for combo.

(just sharing some thoughts, not arguing for the unbanning of recruiter although i feel he would be not too broken nowadays)

What do you think of Stroke the Flames? It may be useful in some matchups that likes to stall, no? And Obelisk of Urd may be a little too high, even with the convoke, but it may be interesting against against Engineering Plague and the like, I think.

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Originally Posted by jimmythegreek

show and tell and let me tell you something, shit gets old quick.

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As an engine deck aficionado, I think I know where your problem is :P

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Second, playing against someone who is taking ten minutes to stack their deck each game sounds excruciating.

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No way does it take that long to make a few Ringleader stacks, and it's not like you do it several times per game.
Sensei's Divining Top is far more time consuming than Recruiter could ever be.

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

Well , the argument that combo goblins feels wrong is loose. The deck would involve combat math and fair wins like now , plus a possible combo finish. I think it would be even more fun to play.
Plus I'm not convinced that food chain goblins would be better than vial goblins, because resolving a 3 mana enchantment would be a very difficult quest against most of the field (mainly tempo), considering it would be the first and sometimes unique target for counters due to cavern of souls. In the end, swapping vial for food chain would open the possibility of fast combo kills, but overall lessen the consistency and reliability of the deck (we all know how vial is essential and how our deck sometimes feels clunky without vial).
In fact i'm not totally convinced i would play food chain if recruiter was unbanned... probably i would just jam some copies of him in vial goblins. This way the deck would gain inevitability against other fair decks, and we could return to the old strategy crush every fair deck and heavy sideboard for combo.

(just sharing some thoughts, not arguing for the unbanning of recruiter although i feel he would be not too broken nowadays)

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IMHO, some viable points here... +1

Hi everyone, I've got a tournament report. :) Started out 2-0, and then lost the last four rounds. :/
I played my R/B classic list.

R1 Shardless BUG without Goyf 2-0
The games were interesting. G1 I had a vial and neither of us had much going on. My opponent blew up a deed. I played a matron wich was met with fow, and then I played my second Vial.
G2 went on for a while. It looked like I was surely winning when my opponent topdecked a Night of Souls Betrayal. But I had the last few goblins to finish him off, with an active port.

R2 ANT 2-1
He was on the play G1 and comboed t3, a turn to fast for me.
G2 I played some discard spells and had a Relic of Progenitus which prevented him from going of via his PiF in hand.
At one point G3 my opponent had 5 cards in hand. I played a Cabal Therapy, naming Dark Ritual. I hit two. Then I flashbacked CT, taking two Ponders, leaving my opponent with a single Lotus Petal in hand. The choice for me was between Ritual and Infernal Tutor, but I chose to go after his mana as he had play a volcanic as his first land drop, having fetched basics in the earlier games.

R3 Noble Fish (see Bahra's list) 1-2
I think this should be a good matchup for us, but TNN is still very good. This guy went on to split the finals.

R4 W/B Taxes 1-2
G1 He had Mom, SFM and a lot of other stuff while I had a slow hand.
G2 Lackey connected.
G3 I mulliganed a slow seven, a six w/o lands, and kept an unimpressive five with a lackey. I didn't get there.

R5 Elves 0-2
G1 I find is generally tough for us, and it was the same this time.
G2 I played a Lackey with Tarfire + Chieftain in hand, planning to kill his blocker to connect. He played a Fyndhorn Elves and I drew a Plague, and decided to trade to keep the Tarfire for after the Plague. Next turn I resolved Plague. He playd DRS and Wirewood Symbiote. I tarfired his symbiote and wasted his Cradle. But he played a second Cradle and NO.

R6 Miracles 0-2
I played bad at this point, but I don't think it was the reason I lost. I played Chalice on one G2 but wasn't prepared to fight SFM, although I'd kept a Scrapper in the deck.


Conclusions
I liked the deck in general. A third Tarfire or Pyrokinesis would have been sweet. Cabal Therapy overperformed. Plague didn't do much but might have had been good in some games where I didn't draw it.