Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hey guys,
is there really no 2 drop outside of Leonin, Relic Warder which can blow up artifacts AND enchantments?? I think from the fair deck side the TNN+Jitte+DoN+Push will give you guys a hard time for future events. This combination is not just popular now with the Duke winning list, all those 4c Delver Friedman versions already play this configuration!
I think even a cc3 creature like Reclamation Sage (In white of course) for example would still be good...No options?
If not I think you guys should maybe think about a 3rd CJ in the SB...
Edit: I'm currently switching to this deck too, that's the reason I try to help my biggest enemy :laugh:
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
@Manipulato
Yeah, options are surprisingly bad on that front. Leonin Relic-Warder is the best thing stapled to a creature at two or three mana, unfortunately.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Unless we play either the green or red splash. Manic Vandal, Rec Sage and Pridemage are all good considerations.
Anyways I think a start in this new direction we are taking is to start running another Council's Judgment. This card deals with so many problems we have in fair match ups.
If I ever go up to 4 in the sideboard I will tell you guys about my experience with a fun-of Ballot Broker. :D
As a note on the Black splash besides just running Orzhov Pontiffs and Kambals you guys do realize that you now have access to Perish. Also Sorin Solemn Visitor is a serious consideration but I would personally still sway towards not running it but being able to race effectively is nice.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gh0st_b1rd
Unless we play either the green or red splash. Manic Vandal, Rec Sage and Pridemage are all good considerations.
Anyways I think a start in this new direction we are taking is to start running another Council's Judgment. This card deals with so many problems we have in fair match ups.
If I ever go up to 4 in the sideboard I will tell you guys about my experience with a fun-of Ballot Broker. :D
As a note on the Black splash besides just running Orzhov Pontiffs and Kambals you guys do realize that you now have access to Perish. Also Sorin Solemn Visitor is a serious consideration but I would personally still sway towards not running it but being able to race effectively is nice.
Sadly Manic Vandal only kills artifacts :-/ And he's red of course...CJ is probably the most versatile answer for TNN DoN & Jitte but a creature would be way better of course because of Vial (uncounertable + helps in manascrew games) & Cavern (uncounterable) but well...
CJ can get countered by Daze or FoW and sometimes there are these shitty games where you stuck on 2 lands or ww is not given...
I think we can just hope that a white Reclamation Sage as a human gets printed near future.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
@iatee @_Medea not only Pontiff and Kambal seem good in the meta to come, Zealous Persecution also wins races and deals with hierarchs and TNNs. Black also provides discard and Lingering Souls as an option for grindy MUs where 2-for-1-ing is a must.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manipulato
Sadly Manic Vandal only kills artifacts :-/ And he's red of course...CJ is probably the most versatile answer for TNN DoN & Jitte but a creature would be way better of course because of Vial (uncounertable + helps in manascrew games) & Cavern (uncounterable) but well...
CJ can get countered by Daze or FoW and sometimes there are these shitty games where you stuck on 2 lands or ww is not given...
I think we can just hope that a white Reclamation Sage as a human gets printed near future.
As luck would have it they printed a W/R rec sage, Duergar Hedge-Mage.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
That feels terrible. I don't think I'd play that even if I had the Imperial Recruiters, as it seems pretty difficult to get double mountain. You really need the option of both, not just one or the other. Sometimes you have to hit Omniscience, other times it is Jitte you must worry about. IMHO it really matters.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
or you have plains, port, karakas...nice hedge mage
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manipulato
Hey guys,
is there really no 2 drop outside of Leonin, Relic Warder which can blow up artifacts AND enchantments?? I think from the fair deck side the TNN+Jitte+DoN+Push will give you guys a hard time for future events. This combination is not just popular now with the Duke winning list, all those 4c Delver Friedman versions already play this configuration!
I think even a cc3 creature like Reclamation Sage (In white of course) for example would still be good...No options?
If not I think you guys should maybe think about a 3rd CJ in the SB...
Edit: I'm currently switching to this deck too, that's the reason I try to help my biggest enemy :laugh:
*****There is Capashen Unicorn, (as well as devout witness and reliquary monk) which destroys both, however; it's a turn slower..
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Soltari Visionary is delightfully unplayable, except he dodges TNNs and other blockers. If you're ok paying 3 and waiting a turn for summoning sickness anyway, there's also the idea of maindecking Mangara again in the Banisher/Jailer slot. If paying 3 is ok but waiting a turn isn't, maindecking a removal spell other than StP is an option.
tl;dr plz print 2/2 Human Reclamation Priest.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I run 1 of both main and an additional Relic-Warder side. I have, however, dropped a Recruiter for Crusader #2.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gh0st_b1rd
Unless we play either the green or red splash. Manic Vandal, Rec Sage and Pridemage are all good considerations.
Anyways I think a start in this new direction we are taking is to start running another Council's Judgment. This card deals with so many problems we have in fair match ups.
If I ever go up to 4 in the sideboard I will tell you guys about my experience with a fun-of Ballot Broker. :D
As a note on the Black splash besides just running Orzhov Pontiffs and Kambals you guys do realize that you now have access to Perish. Also Sorin Solemn Visitor is a serious consideration but I would personally still sway towards not running it but being able to race effectively is nice.
Perish is actually a pretty interesting suggestion. obviously the primary use would be wrecking Elves, but if fair DRS/Leovold decks become a major part of the meta, that's a pretty good card.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I've been very happy with Relic-Warder, card is good.
Sure, a War Priest of Thune that hits artifacts as well as enchantments would be better but that isnt a card they're likely to print any time soon.
The enchantment removal is actually the important part of the card tbh, you have Revokers for artifacts.
If you just want a destroy effect, Seal of Cleansing is a good option but obviously not vialable or recruitable so plays quite differently
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Here's the other article I promised, talking about how I built my deck and what I want to try moving forward.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hey guys, here's a bad tournament report from Louisville. I wasn't going to play the main event because I don't have a deck, but I won a gpt on Friday and felt like I should play. I borrowed a d+t list missing some cards and played it cold, at Louisville for the first time ever.
9 plains
4 port
4 wasteland
1 Mishra’s factory
3 karakas
1 cavern of souls
1 horizon canopy
4 mother of runes
4 aether vial
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 flickerwisp
4 stoneforge mystic
4 swords to plowshares
3 phyrexian revoker
2 serra avenger
2 sanctum prelate
2 thalia, heretic cathar
1 batterskull
1 umezawa’s jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
1 eldrazi displacer
2 council’s judgement
2 cataclysm
2 ethersworn canonist
2 containment priest
2 rest in peace
1 gideon ally of zendikar
1 absolute law
1 seal of cleansing
1 pithing needle
1 path to exile
Decklist reasoning: This is a pretty stock list minus maindeck spirit of the labyrinth and 3 recruiters. I couldn’t find any recruiters so I just jammed two new thalia which seemed ok (it was mostly awful) and an eldrazi displacer (which was mvp). With no recruiters to get it, random maze spirit seemed bad so I shoved in the 4th stoneforge. 4th stoneforge and double serra avenger kind of seems like training wheels, but I need training wheels. For the record, I don’t think horizon canopy or mishra’s factory are worth it, and I think one should be a plains and the other either also a plains or a second cavern of souls. The manabase in this deck is pitiful.
Round 1 bye
Round 2 bye
Round 3: Mirror
Game 1: Opponent can’t beat jitte on a serra avenger, I am victorious
Game 2: Opponent can’t beat containment priest + eldrazi displacer wombo combo. Also, the containment priest was his.
Round 4: Bryant Cook on TES
Game 1: Opponent makes 12 goblins on turn 2, I make a batterskull and win the race.
Game 2: Opponent has the chain of vapor for Ethersworn canonist, then swiftly kills himself with an ad nauseum.
Round 5: Miracles
Game 1: Can’t beat opponent flipping all 4 terminus.
Game 2: Fight pretty hard against some wraths ‘ n stuff with displacer-wisp and get er’ done
Game 3: Mull to 5, slam into counterspell, terminus, jace. womp womp .
Round 6: Braverman on miracles
Game 1: He mulligans. I have a weak hand and have to full-steam into a terminus, but he doesn’t have it.
Game 2: He mulligans twice, misses a bunch of land drops, and I just get in there, baby.
Round 7: Intentional draw with Kevin Fang, he is much better at the d and t mirror than me.
Round 8: Burn
Game 1: Get burned out because double searing blaze double eidolon. Opponent seems sloppy.
Game 2: Opponent can’t beat an absolute law. Get rekt nerd.
Game 3: Opponent misses a sulfuric vortex trigger and dies with lethal burn in hand and me at two. Justice.
Round 9: Enlightened tutor rip-helm miracles
Game 1: opponent locks up the game and I scoop to a jace +countertop to try to have time to win twice
Game 2: I play very poorly and my opponent has it all and I die. Side note: am I supposed to play around daze??
Round 10: Bug delver
Pregame: I show up just as the round is supposed to start and am very frantic. My opponent is bummed about no free win.
Game 1: I draw a lot of ports and wastelands and ruin his day.
Game 2: I put a sword on a thing and kill his things, he hates it.
Round 11: BG depths
Game 1: He makes a marit lage and I have a flickerwisp
Game 2: He makes 2 marit lage, and I have a Swords and then an Eldrazi displacer.
Round 12: Mud
Game 1: I use my plow on a metalworker to try to play the mana game with my port, he punishes me with a bunch more sol lands and double wurmcoil.
Game 2: he plays some awful artifact that lets the player who flips higher cmc cards take the next turn? He flips some lands and triple-walks me and I win pretty easily. Card seems bad.
Game 3: I name mana sources with double revoker to keep him off mana and get immediately punished by kuldotha forgemaster off the teezy, have to cataclysm hoping he doesn’t have a platinum emperion or something. He does. I die.
Round 13: Infect
Game 1: took a pretty aggressive line of porting my opponent’s basic forest on turn 2 with the hopes of playing wasteland and vialing in a thalia and locking my opponent out of spells after that. Die turn 2 to land invigorate berserk, obviously.
Game 2: Die to an inkmoth nexus through 2 swords to plowshares, thalia, jitte. Some ridiculous combination of Inkmoth, Double dismember, force of will+blue card, daze, invigorate, berserk.
Round 14: Lands
Game 1: Opponent does nothing and I somehow wasteland+jitte my way to victory.
Game 2: rest in peace and absolute law are quite a beating.
Round 15: Elves
I die very quickly in two and drive back to Canada.
I’d like to confirm that I am better at playing death and taxes than Kevin Fang, as we finished with the same record and my list was substantially worse. Also many of my opponents had no business losing their rounds and played poorly. Also so did I.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
Great read. I am not too pleased with the emergence of Leovold. I tested Reid's list at my local legacy event and it was silly.
I was traditionally running a creature heavy sideboard without council's judgement. It seems I have to adapt and not leave home without at least two in the side.
I really like the idea of splashing black for pontiff and perish. What are your thoughts on a singleton bitterblossom in the side for some help against miracles? I know gideon is better overall but an early bitterblossom could be easier to land if you have a thalia out and are on the mana denial plan. I plan to try the build out this week.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Several of the people I know that play Miracles run 2x Spell Snare, much like Lossett does, and it's been good for them (and myself, I play it as well in my Miracles list), I feel like the Gideon is still better here, especially with TNN getting popular again. The +1/+1 is better vs. all the hate for the merfolk (g. Charm, ZP, E. Plague, etc.).
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Several of the people I know that play Miracles run 2x Spell Snare, much like Lossett does, and it's been good for them (and myself, I play it as well in my Miracles list), I feel like the Gideon is still better here, especially with TNN getting popular again. The +1/+1 is better vs. all the hate for the merfolk (g. Charm, ZP, E. Plague, etc.).
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Good point. I appreciate the insight.
Been putting off buying Gideon since his price spike but with the change in standard, waiting another 5-6 months doesn't seem worth it.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Im swapping out my gideon for elspeth personally.
Gideon's a 4 mana 2/2 in about 60% of games and a 5 mana 2/2 in about 30% of games, I've been very unimpressed.
Elspeth lets you fly over a TNN with any creature and doesnt die to 1 hit from it, even exalted. It's just as good against miracles IMO and in the matchups where the tokens are for chump blocking there's no difference.
