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I like that you mention Blessed Alliance. I've been running one of the board to test it out, and thus far it's performed fairly well for me. I haven't gotten into any situations where it's a total blowout, but it goes offer a fair number of options on most board states. I've cut my Banisher Priest for it, and haven't really looked back. Does anyone else have any experience with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Medea_
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Though this isn't a D&T article per se, I think this will be very useful to those of you attending SCG Balt.
Not that it matters, but I disagree that legacy players will be the strongest. The strongest magic players (pros, regular pro tour players, competitive players trying to get on the pro tour) have little reason to practice legacy beyond "it's more fun." They play standard, limited and modern when they have to.
People have been able to make a name for themselves in legacy precisely because the competition is so weak / devoid of the real spikes.
Definitely agree with this, it's a weird assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
A lot of us older players have been playing standard longer than legacy just because we had to break into 1.5 as well. We did it the same way 15 years+ ago, slowly buying mana drains, force of wills, and duals, whilst playing standard for the time being. It was cheaper to buy in back then, but I was 16 so my money was tight. I would think the pros had similar experiences, and that it's a little weird to think that this format is less competitive than others, when the dedication to an Archetype is most common here, meaning most people who play legacy know their list better because of how few options they have to play otherwise. Maybe it's true, but I doubt it.
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A guy at our FNM last night went 4-0 with D&T. Lots of BUG and Leovold decks going around (including me), and Sword of Body and Mind was an all-star for him. I asked if he read Thraben University and just laughed while showing me a picture on Facebook of a SOBAM board state where he tagged Medea_ :laugh:
Yeah, I had good laugh about that.
Also, since it hasn't been posted here yet: Wescoe/Enevoldsen sideboarding guide.
Went 5-0 at Legacy FNM last night as well... Beat Leovold BUG thanks to a game 1 SoFI on Mirran Crusader and game 2 had a swords for his first noble and a Council's judgment for his turn 4 True Name.
Still not on the SoBaM plan but have continued to play WaP in the main (with skull in the side) and have been impressed by it's performance v. Miracles and Mirror.
Rnd1: B/R Reanimator 2-1
Rnd2: Leovold BUG 2-0
Rnd3: Storm 2-1
Rnd4: BUG Delver 2-0
Rnd5: Miracles 2-0
I still love running 2 Prelates in the main as I feel that card is stupidly overpowered.
I tried something (to me - but I'm well aware that I'm not the first who had the rather bland idea) new at yesterday's FNM Legacy, and wrote a short post about it on Salvation: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...age=636#c15996
Anyone watched the 40 Card Friedman 60 Card Showdown vids on YouTube? What's your opinion of his efforts?
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re: the wescoe article. i posted some different philosophies i have on reddit. as i said there, wescoe/enevoldsen are experts and probably right, but curious if anyone agrees with these changes (which i am copying verbatim because i'm lazy):
-miracles: i like crusader and jitte in this matchup. having 3 equipment is a big deal since games go long and i like to have a target for my 3rd stoneforge. crusader + sword of fire and ice is a way to take them by surprise. i'd rather cut a couple of moms, since targeted removal isn't a big deal in the matchup
-eldrazi: i think the first sanctum prelate is better than the third mom. prelate on 2 is actually pretty good in this matchup
-mirror: gideon is a bomb in the mirror. not sure why you wouldn't bring it in
-reanimator: i'm having a hard time seeing flickerwisp ever being better than thalia. personally i bail on the entire stoneforge package, although there are moments where i wish i had access to batterskull
-elves: path seems miserable against them, since it just gives them the mana they want anyway. i should probably bite the bullet and do it since it can clear away symbiote to get jitte hits in, but it feels bad
-lands: i think we need to leave revokers in now, since lands players are all playing molten vortex, sometimes in multiples. i'd rather shave a plow or two
-burn: i think 2 judgment are a necessary evil since sulfuric vortex is so bad for us. i also somewhat like ethersworn canonist, although it's not amazing
Wescoe's not really a legacy DnT expert, he's just a really good magic player who picks up the deck once a year and figures it out as he goes along. I watched him make a pretty clear cut misplay vs my friend d1. Pros barely play legacy.
I agree about Crusader vs Miracles - you want fast clocks that need to be answered ASAP. And Gideon in the mirror is definitely a hay-maker, agree on Thalia vs Reanimator too.
Vs. Eldrazi, I cut all 4 Moms before any Thalias - she wears equipment well and Thalia + Karakas is a good wall vs anything but Reality Smasher.
vs Lands I like Palace Jailer a lot. It's a slow creature-less deck and once in a while you might even eat a 20/20.
Siding out Revoker vs Nic Fit is super bizarre to me. Pernicious Deed is their best card vs DnT.
Ethersworn comes in vs SnS, both as another generic hatebear that slows them down and as one of the few ways we can beat Omniscience.
Just curious: are the two basic Forests in an Elves deck really a big enough factor to not run Path against them? I'd treat Path as a net win in the matchup, but I haven't played it a lot.
@fifteenstepper @iatee
I disagree with a huge portion of the sideboarding guide. Some of those things I think are objectively wrong, while others are a different approach than what I like to do. To a certain extent, some of the information may be a touch outdated, but was accurate at one time (e.g. I think it's now very dangerous to cut all four StP vs Miracles since they have switched to the Mentor plan). There's some great information there, especially for a new player, but I wouldn't take it as gospel. I've put it up on my site under recommended reading, but with the caveat that I don't agree with much of what is there.
@kirbydsl
Path is acceptable against Elves. I don't think it's amazing, but it is playable.
I think Wescoe's SB guide is a direct parrot of Enevoldeson's boarding plan but you cant be so concise in a free weekly article. I think the way they board against Miracles reflects an agnostic perception of the Miracles deck the DnT player has seen game 1. I would even board that way myself if I either won Game 1 because my opponent wasn't doing anything or I only seen an Entreat.
Likewise vs. Shardless BUG. Game 3 is where my boarding plans change most vs Shardless. If they're the type to board out Goyfs or I have seen a Jitte, I will board Revokers back in in place of RIPs.
Their boarding plan vs Eldrazi is weird. Mother of Runes is practically a textless 1/1 vs Eldrazi but am skeptical that anxiety from opposing Karakases would warrant boarding out 2x Thalias. On a similar note if so many cards had to be allocated to the sideboard so aggressively why don't they just bring in Ethersworn Canonists if their plan is to just 2-1 themselves for a fatty each turn. If you cut 2 more Moms you get Canonists. And its also not like you will have great work compression vs Eldrazi anyways so you might as well if an opposing Karakas is that much of a concern.
To be fair I have been boarding very similarly to how they board for awhile now.
Hello. I'm attending an event this weekend with around 50/70 players. The meta should be many BUG variants, some Miracles, combo Reanimator and a few Taxes. There will be some other good legacy decks (Infect, Lands, Eldrazi, etc) but in smaller number. I have some concerns with my list.
LANDS
10 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
CREATURES
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
SPELLS
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SIDEBOARD
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Council's Judgment
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
1. I wanted to add another Prelate to main but i don't know what to cut or if it is even necessary.
2. I want to add a SoWaP to sideboard to fight mirror but i don't know what to cut.
3. Fairie Macabre or Surgical Extraction?
4. Have anyone tested Blessed Alliance yet? Wanted to add another TNN solution and Blessed Alliance seems a good option as it is also good against other matchups (Infect, Turbo Depths, etc)
1. The list that I run with is the same as yours, -1 Crusader +1 Prelate. Prelate is a house in so many matchups that I wouldn't want to run less than 2, while Crusader can be really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by gfernandes
2. I would cut a Containment Priest, you already have 5 cards against Reanimator and Sneak Attack decks tend to be pretty good matchups so I don't worry about them much
3. Macabre is my pick because it gets around Chancellor, and hitting two creatures is more valuable than the Extraction effect.
4. I've been messing around with Blessed Alliance, mostly because I lost to TNN Leovold at the GP, and its been pretty alright thus far. In my testing, Jitte is the card you're really worried about rather than True-Name, so I might just cut it completely for something that actually deals with the problem card.
I've been working out my board plan against TNN BUG, what do people think of Pithing Needle against them? I started out taking it in to shut down Jitte, but having it as a one mana answer to Deathrite Shaman has actually been pretty strong in multiple games.
Also, it's been mentioned that dropping mom #4 is a fine place for Prelate #2. It's what I play more often than not.
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I agree with Mirran Crusader, it's a creature that applies some real pressure and is nuts with any equipment. It's important to apply some pressure without overextending into Terminus (hence SoFaI is the best equipment in this MU). However, Jitte needs one connect and doesn't do much by itself, I agree on cutting it. As long as you can fetch SoFaI and Batterskull, you're fine. But Jitte is crappy.Quote:
Originally Posted by fifteenstepper
But it is slow. I always cut all Thalias as I want to be able to resolve Council's Judgment, hardcast my equipments if necessary and be less clunky with removal.Quote:
-eldrazi: i think the first sanctum prelate is better than the third mom. prelate on 2 is actually pretty good in this matchup
It's not. There are some people who don't board out Thalia (which is wrong, just to be clear), and there it will be a clunky 5drop. It's also soft to Revoker and Needle and does not help you against all the flyers and Jitte.Quote:
-mirror: gideon is a bomb in the mirror. not sure why you wouldn't bring it in
The Stoneforge package is soft to Thoughtseize and depending on the lenght of the game, Flickerwisp can generate some value with Recruiter to fetch multiple Faerie Macabres or what have you. I am also not sure whether the SB approach is correct, but it sounds okay.Quote:
-reanimator: i'm having a hard time seeing flickerwisp ever being better than thalia. personally i bail on the entire stoneforge package, although there are moments where i wish i had access to batterskull
I think no matter what you do, the matchup is like 5%.Quote:
-elves: path seems miserable against them, since it just gives them the mana they want anyway. i should probably bite the bullet and do it since it can clear away symbiote to get jitte hits in, but it feels bad
This is where I don't really like the guide because it does not discriminate between Lands (like the 43Lands thing) and Aggroloam (where you definitely want StoPs against Confidants and KotR)Quote:
-lands: i think we need to leave revokers in now, since lands players are all playing molten vortex, sometimes in multiples. i'd rather shave a plow or two
I agree on the Judgments, but not on Canonists. Mind that it also dies to Smash to Smithereens, which makes things more embarrising. If there is an artifact that gives my opponent targets postboard, it should better be one that gives me edge, not just being cute.Quote:
-burn: i think 2 judgment are a necessary evil since sulfuric vortex is so bad for us. i also somewhat like ethersworn canonist, although it's not amazing
offtopic regarding that article:
Legacy players actually suck. We have a lot of Legacy players around here who are playing the format for 10 years and still don't really have a deep understanding of the game. Hell, it even includes me, I only started to fully understand creature combat and damage racing ever since I started playing Death and Taxes. :D
But some Legacy players are still kinda like... living in a paralell society. But the people who play a lot of other formats competitively and have a deeper understanding for the game in general will be the ones who can do well on big tournaments even if they don't play the format very often.
Gideon is absolutely crushing in the mirror. I've won with it and been beaten by it enough times. If they didn't board out their Thalias, then a. You just Karakas their Thalia probably and b. You're probably winning regardless. 'Soft to Revoker and Needle' also goes for every other good card in the matchup.