[Deck] Merfolk

Hello Pelpopayo!
Tnx for kind words.

Without Wasteland they can recur the Chasm with Life from the Loam each turn, without paying life.
They can search for it with Crop Rotation and Gamble, copy it with Vesuva.
Keeping Wasteland in your hand for that final alpha strike is winning you that game.

Without Wasteland you have to prevent recursion with Relic of Progenitus or have Chalice on 2 to stop Life and Punishing Fire from doing their thing.
There is also the Venser, Shaper Savant which is nice against anything Show and Tell tries to put into play, while also being good against Marit Lage token, Glacial Chasm, SoF&I...

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

Hello Pelpopayo!
Tnx for kind words.

Without Wasteland they can recur the Chasm with Life from the Loam each turn, without paying life.
They can search for it with Crop Rotation and Gamble, copy it with Vesuva.
Keeping Wasteland in your hand for that final alpha strike is winning you that game.

Without Wasteland you have to prevent recursion with Relic of Progenitus or have Chalice on 2 to stop Life and Punishing Fire from doing their thing.
There is also the Venser, Shaper Savant which is nice against anything Show and Tell tries to put into play, while also being good against Marit Lage token, Glacial Chasm, SoF&I...

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Yes you're right! I always keep a hand with at least 1 chalice and a FOW if (I can) to counter aggressively his first big threats (Crop Rotation and Gamble) in order to buy time. As you say the most important thing is try to resolve a Chalice of the Void with two counters ASAP to stop Life of Loam and Punishing fire.

I'm just running only 4 counters (4 FOWS) in the main so winning the first round is not easy.

But with my sideboard everything completely changes.

I use these cards:

4 SWAN SONGS (counter agressively Crop Rotation, Gamble, Manabound, Exploration, Choke etc).
3 ECHOING TRUTH: (Marit Lake Token, Choke etc)
2 PITHING NEEDLE: (Rishadan port, Maze of it, Thespian Stage.
2 TORMOD`S CRYPT

It really works:smile:

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The Deck:

10 Island
3 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault

4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendillion Clique

4 Force of Will
3 Daze

SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

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So maybe a little more about card choices.

1) Manabase:

• 3x Wasteland - very good card against a field full of delver decks and omnishow decks that run Boseju. However I feel like 20 lands is a bit greedy.

2) Maindeck:

• 4x Chalice of the Void - I'll never leave my house without playset. The card was shining all the weekend even against belcher (stoping rituals / probes / tinder walls etc.).
• 3 True-Name Nemesis - why 3 instead of 4? I really don't like 3CC drops with only 20 lands. I took it out agains Omnishow decks etc. It was okay but not brilliant but I'll never play less than 3.
• 2 Vendilion Clique - the card was shining all day long. Against Miracles, Omni etc. I like this kind of instant speed threats.

3) Sideboard
Sideboard was created to avoid playing 1CC spell 'cause they don't cooperate well with Chalice. I definitelly regret that I didn't use 2 copies of Venser. This would probably won me the "in and win" game against miracles (i was twice defeated by MOAT ?!). And it can be cast with use of Cavern. The card that I never used was Tormod's Crypt but I'm sure that there hast to be some grave hate in 75.

I wouldn't be too surprised with Moat, as Mentors and Pyromancers flood the meta. Even Death and Taxes occasionally boards one and relies on fliers to get the job done.

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Originally Posted by kubalonek

So maybe a little more about card choices.

1) Manabase:

• 3x Wasteland - very good card against a field full of delver decks and omnishow decks that run Boseju. However I feel like 20 lands is a bit greedy.

2) Maindeck:

• 4x Chalice of the Void - I'll never leave my house without playset. The card was shining all the weekend even against belcher (stoping rituals / probes / tinder walls etc.).
• 3 True-Name Nemesis - why 3 instead of 4? I really don't like 3CC drops with only 20 lands. I took it out agains Omnishow decks etc. It was okay but not brilliant but I'll never play less than 3.
• 2 Vendilion Clique - the card was shining all day long. Against Miracles, Omni etc. I like this kind of instant speed threats.

3) Sideboard
Sideboard was created to avoid playing 1CC spell 'cause they don't cooperate well with Chalice. I definitelly regret that I didn't use 2 copies of Venser. This would probably won me the "in and win" game against miracles (i was twice defeated by MOAT ?!). And it can be cast with use of Cavern. The card that I never used was Tormod's Crypt but I'm sure that there hast to be some grave hate in 75.

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Hi Kubalonek!

I take a playset of both of them (chalice of the void and Vial) like you too.
In the majority of matchups they are big threats and the opponent always decide to counter with FOWS, etc or targered with abrupt decays.

That's not bad for us. Many times you have an opening hand with chalice of the void and vial.
If you are on the play you cast vial. If they cast a fow, ok in the second turn you cast chalice.

But if you get to keep both "alives" that's incredible then.


This is my deck:

20 LANDS
12 Island
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault

28 CREATURES
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis

INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Force of Will


OTHER SPELLS
4 Æther Vial
4 Chalice of the void

SIDEBOARD
3 Echoing Truth
1 Dismember
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
4 Swan Song
2 Tormod's crypt
1 Jitte

I want to add 2 Vendilion Clique (-1 merrow in the main and - 1 swan song in the sideboard).
As you know they are so good against a lot of matchups and also they can help you to filter useless cards (if you draw too many chalices or vials etc).

I'm still hoping to get 2 Vendilion Clique cheaper than now (as they were reedited).:rolleyes:

Best Regards

Quick question: Are there any builds that don't run 4x TNN? The 3CC seems a bit suspect.

Sure, someone either here or on Salvation just posted a list with 3. I feel it's a mistake though. I'm not aware of any significant finishes by a 3-Nemesis deck.

I'd say it's meta call - TNN is terrible against storm, show and tell, elves (bit better but still) and great against fair decks. If you expect lots of combo, 3 might be good.

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Originally Posted by kubalonek

However I feel like 20 lands is a bit greedy.

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Absolutely!

Not hitting land drops is a bigger issue than flooding imo.

PSA: We can always board out that 21st land if it's not needed, particularly on the draw.

Sorry if I'm rehasing old tech, but this thread is HUGE and I'm just getting back into the game after nearly a decade away from magic.

Anyways, I'm strongly considering taking Merfolk to a tournament on the 1st (My first since 2004). Here's what I'm looking at:


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
10 Island
2 Wasteland

4 Cursecatcher
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Cold Eyed Selkie

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 uezawa's Jitte
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Back to Basics
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Null Rod
1 Submerge

I realize the lack of Vial will probably seem like Sacrilege, but I think it's overdue. The good matchups are fine even without it, while the bad matchups (most notably Omni) benefit tremendously from having a few extra business spells main. Otherwise it's a fairly vanilla list, other than the presence of Selkie. He's only in because I'm expecting quite a bit of Mentor control in the wake of Lille, and he can single-handedly bury that deck.

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Originally Posted by Meddling_Mage

Sorry if I'm rehasing old tech, but this thread is HUGE and I'm just getting back into the game after nearly a decade away from magic.

Anyways, I'm strongly considering taking Merfolk to a tournament on the 1st (My first since 2004). Here's what I'm looking at:


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
10 Island
2 Wasteland

4 Cursecatcher
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Cold Eyed Selkie

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 uezawa's Jitte
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Back to Basics
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Null Rod
1 Submerge

I realize the lack of Vial will probably seem like Sacrilege, but I think it's overdue. The good matchups are fine even without it, while the bad matchups (most notably Omni) benefit tremendously from having a few extra business spells main. Otherwise it's a fairly vanilla list, other than the presence of Selkie. He's only in because I'm expecting quite a bit of Mentor control in the wake of Lille, and he can single-handedly bury that deck.

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I am totally on board with leaving out Vial (and the Null Rods in the board nice). People are still having success with the Vial/Wasteland build as well as Vial and Chalice together, but I much prefer Chalice and personally prefer to not run the risk of having uncastable one drops along side it. I like your list, I'll give the Selkie the benefit of the doubt for now. The one drops in the sideboard make me nervous because they come in for matchups where Chalice is also good right? I'm going for Mindbreak Trap over Flusterstorm for that reason, and a Wipe Away for more play against Omni/Miracles. Here's the list I may take to Richmond this Sunday:

4x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Silvergill Adept
4x True-Name Nemesis
3x Phantasmal Image
2x Vendilion Clique


3x Daze
4x Force of Will
1x Echoing Truth

2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Cavern of Souls
4x Mutavault
13x Island


2x Null Rod
1x Mindbreak Trap
3x Back to Basics
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
2x Submerge
3x Grafdigger's Cage (Tormod's Crypt?)
1x Wipe Away
2x Spreading Seas

The Grafdigger's Cages are violating my Chalice rule, so Tormod's Crypt may take over. Crypt is nice in that the cards are actually gone once you use it, since all hell can break loose after your Cage gets Abrupt Decayed EoT. I go off and on Spreading Seas (usually of) but I feel they give us some more play against some bad matchups like Lands/Maverick/DnT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meddling_Mage

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
10 Island
2 Wasteland

4 Cursecatcher
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Cold Eyed Selkie

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 uezawa's Jitte
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Back to Basics
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Null Rod
1 Submerge

I realize the lack of Vial will probably seem like Sacrilege, but I think it's overdue. The good matchups are fine even without it, while the bad matchups (most notably Omni) benefit tremendously from having a few extra business spells main. Otherwise it's a fairly vanilla list, other than the presence of Selkie. He's only in because I'm expecting quite a bit of Mentor control in the wake of Lille, and he can single-handedly bury that deck.

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Deciding to play without Vials have upsides and downsides, but those doesn't matter since you made that choice.
The problems I see, at least to me, are nine 3-drops with only 20 lands (Vial decks play 21 land + 4 Vial + better curve).
If you think that Selkie is playable than she has to be played in a Vial deck where you can deploy everything you drew. Otherwise you are leaning too much on drawing Reejerey for untapping lands.
With only 20 lands you could be stuck on two mana (or be Wastelanded) for too long.
The last big problem is 3 Daze on only 10 Islands.
That is my opinion of course, feel free to disregard everything I said and good luck in the tournament.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo

I am totally on board with leaving out Vial (and the Null Rods in the board nice). People are still having success with the Vial/Wasteland build as well as Vial and Chalice together, but I much prefer Chalice and personally prefer to not run the risk of having uncastable one drops along side it. I like your list, I'll give the Selkie the benefit of the doubt for now. The one drops in the sideboard make me nervous because they come in for matchups where Chalice is also good right? I'm going for Mindbreak Trap over Flusterstorm for that reason, and a Wipe Away for more play against Omni/Miracles. Here's the list I may take to Richmond this Sunday:

4x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Silvergill Adept
4x True-Name Nemesis
3x Phantasmal Image
2x Vendilion Clique


3x Daze
4x Force of Will
1x Echoing Truth

2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Cavern of Souls
4x Mutavault
13x Island


2x Null Rod
1x Mindbreak Trap
3x Back to Basics
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
2x Submerge
3x Grafdigger's Cage (Tormod's Crypt?)
1x Wipe Away
2x Spreading Seas

The Grafdigger's Cages are violating my Chalice rule, so Tormod's Crypt may take over. Crypt is nice in that the cards are actually gone once you use it, since all hell can break loose after your Cage gets Abrupt Decayed EoT. I go off and on Spreading Seas (usually of) but I feel they give us some more play against some bad matchups like Lands/Maverick/DnT.

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I have seen so much fear in sideboard builds given Chalice at one is in play. My sideboard have something like ten 1-mana spells and that wasn't a problem yet.
Flusterstorm works even with Chalice and can't be countered by single counterspell like Mindbreak Trap (important spell, probably the reason for its price).
When I have Chalice on the board that is probably because it trumps opponent's deck, having a dead card in my hand is not that backbreaking.
Crypt is better only against Reanimator (maybe something else), while Cage and Relic of Progenitus are better against everything else (fear of CotV should not affect this decision).
Good luck in the tournament.
I expect reports from both so there will be more stuff to talk about.

@Everyone
What did Back to Basics did for you (whoever runs it)? I have never resolved that, never saw any game that was affected by it and my sideboard slots are preciousss, so feedback is appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

I have seen so much fear in sideboard builds given Chalice at one is in play. My sideboard have something like ten 1-mana spells and that wasn't a problem yet.
Flusterstorm works even with Chalice and can't be countered by single counterspell like Mindbreak Trap (important spell, probably the reason for its price).

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This is incorrect, unless they respond to the storm trigger by using mindbreak trap mindbreak trap can target each copy of flusterstorm on the stack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

@Everyone
What did Back to Basics did for you (whoever runs it)? I have never resolved that, never saw any game that was affected by it and my sideboard slots are preciousss, so feedback is appreciated.

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It really depends on your board situation. Obviously it's no blood moon but you can get catch your opponents with their pants down with it. I've had opponents not cast any spells after resolving a back to basics. If you're behind, it doesn't do anything. Being ahead or even it can help lock down/swing the game in your favor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptHaddock

This is incorrect, unless they respond to the storm trigger by using mindbreak trap mindbreak trap can target each copy of flusterstorm on the stack.

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I am not talking about countering each other. I mean it is better to have Flusterstorm in a counter war than Mindbreak Trap which can be easily Force of Willed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

I am not talking about countering each other. I mean it is better to have Flusterstorm in a counter war than Mindbreak Trap which can be easily Force of Willed.

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What are the scenarios other than some High Tide builds (going to need more than that) where your opponent is Fow'ing your Mindbreak Trap? I probably read this out of context.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

I have seen so much fear in sideboard builds given Chalice at one is in play. My sideboard have something like ten 1-mana spells and that wasn't a problem yet.
Flusterstorm works even with Chalice and can't be countered by single counterspell like Mindbreak Trap (important spell, probably the reason for its price).
When I have Chalice on the board that is probably because it trumps opponent's deck, having a dead card in my hand is not that backbreaking.
Crypt is better only against Reanimator (maybe something else), while Cage and Relic of Progenitus are better against everything else (fear of CotV should not affect this decision).
Good luck in the tournament.
I expect reports from both so there will be more stuff to talk about.

@Everyone
What did Back to Basics did for you (whoever runs it)? I have never resolved that, never saw any game that was affected by it and my sideboard slots are preciousss, so feedback is appreciated.

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Fair points, I figured I might be going a bit overboard eliminating one drops, especially permanents. Crypt is also much better against Lands, seeing as Cage does nothing there. Storm/Reanimator scenarios are comparable I think.

Speaking of Lands (generally an awful matchup), Back to Basics rules here. Brutal for 12 Post as well. It is almost unbeatable in both of these matchups which are almost unbeatable for us otherwise. Remember to chump attack into Maze of Ith before you cast. Obviously great against any 3 color deck like Stoneblade which can sometimes be trouble, or any greedy manabase (Delvers). Bringing 1 or 2 in against Infect is also tempting. I've had good experiences and run 3 in the board because of how it improves our game against some rough matchups, but 3 may be high.

Thanks and yes, I'll report back here assuming it's the deck I run, which is likely at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

The problems I see, at least to me, are nine 3-drops with only 20 lands (Vial decks play 21 land + 4 Vial + better curve).
If you think that Selkie is playable than she has to be played in a Vial deck where you can deploy everything you drew. Otherwise you are leaning too much on drawing Reejerey for untapping lands.
With only 20 lands you could be stuck on two mana (or be Wastelanded) for too long.
The last big problem is 3 Daze on only 10 Islands.
That is my opinion of course, feel free to disregard everything I said and good luck in the tournament.

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Just here to support this, I really don't think it's just opinion. The manabase is going to often be the enemy of the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

@Everyone
What did Back to Basics did for you (whoever runs it)? I have never resolved that, never saw any game that was affected by it and my sideboard slots are preciousss, so feedback is appreciated.

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It's a trump for regular Cloudpost. Does a bit of work against Lands and MUD. Also reasonable against delver decks, but weakest against RUG delver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo

What are the scenarios other than some High Tide builds (going to need more than that) where your opponent is Fow'ing your Mindbreak Trap? I probably read this out of context.

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Omni Tell is a huge one. Miracles also when battling over Terminus. It's really important that Flusterstorm is difficult to interact with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo

What are the scenarios other than some High Tide builds (going to need more than that) where your opponent is Fow'ing your Mindbreak Trap? I probably read this out of context.

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That is more a problem for Trap itself. Opponent needs to "work" so that Mindbreak Trap could do its thing or it will just sit in hand. If he goes Show&Tell with counter backup I would rather have Flusterstorm.
Or Entreat the Angels with Counterbalance "lock" in place. From what I saw Mindbreak is a sideboard card for poor bluedeficient decks like Elves and Goblins rather than Island decks themselves.
At least I see it that way.

EDIT: 'nathed by TrevaBlues before hitting Submit.

Two very different take on merfolk top 8 an IQ this past days:

With a white splash:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=88201

A chalice build:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=88181

Thoughts?

Nihil Spellbombs without black mana, Stifles, 2 Leyline...
That list makes no sense.

yeah, weird :/