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I can't believe that so many of you guys have cut Thoughtseize from your lists. Thoughtseize is one of the best disruption cards ever printed.
It tells you your opponents entire gameplan and robs them of there very best card for just one mana. A turn one thoughtseize means that you will usually know for the most part what your opponent will be casting each turn and how they will respond to your spells often before they do. Why would you ever cut it?
I agree, if you go turn 1 ug sea + thoughtseize, you get there best card ad get to see how they will be playing. not only that, but its only 2 life. and it lets you know what you need to draw (or cantrip into) to better your position.
Guys, what would be the best sb to go to any form of tourney?
my sb currently is: 3 deed, 3 kgrip, 3 tormods, 3 beb, and 3 needles
what do you cut for thoughtseizes? spell snare??Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
main reason i dont play is a hand that has both thoughtseize and stifle, i want to keep stifle up jic cuz that is so back breaking.
if i thoughtseize and they have no relevant plays but they have 1 fetch and i was on the play w/ stifle, i just feel like i lost a great chance to put my opp in armageddon mode.
if you go thoughtseize t2, it loses a lot of value.
That's a whole lot of ifs that you have in your example. And what happens if your opponent instead plays a dual land and a Wild Nacatl or Putrid Imp instead. You're going to be kicking yourself that you didn't cast anything your first turn rather than Thoughtseize away their best card and find out what cards they actually have in their hands rather than just guessing.
If you just sitting around with untapped mana hoping your opponent drops and uses a fetchlands, the only tempo you are taking is your own.
you run daze for that play and snuff out if you are worried bout little guys turning at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
if you get a heavy sinkhole/wasteland/stifle hand, you basically turn all of zoo into 1/1 and 1/2 guys... and they never get to cast spells that matter except for maybe lavamancer which u just snuff out so they have no reach.
spell snare > thoughtseize for my play style because i get to counter relevant spells with it if i don't have the LD going and then resolve my own fatty if I did get to stifle/wasteland/sinkhole them early and ride it to victory.
i also do not run extirpate in the sideboard, do you?
Well yeah if you have a hand packed with LD of course you should focus on that venue. But thoughtseize doesn't interfere with going the LD route. It actually enables it by letting you know what lands your opponent has and what colors and mana they need for their spells. And no I don't play Extripate. I think it's a crappy card actually.
list your mb/sb hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
My list is right here... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15258
Not the same deck but the same core principles apply.
And my sideboard varies btwn some combination of Krosan Grip, BEB, Pithing Needle, Deed, Snuff Out, Duress, Leyline or something else based on what Im expecting, but never included Extripate.
bah, thats not team america thats eva green splashing stifle to cast get dreadnought into play as well as vision charms..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
Never said it was anything but. Regardless, it attacks the manabase with the same identical cards as this deck. Stifle and Thoughtseize coexist As they did/do in lots of TA lists that Ive played and played against and both are absolutely worth playing both here and there imho.
Would extirpate be a good sb card for this deck?
It depends? What are you worried about playing against? What does extirpate do to rectify those things and in which circumstance would you prefer it over a card in your maindeck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanabo
It is hard to accurately judge if a card like that is right for you for this deck in your metagame with out further information.
well my meta consists of alot of combo, and exturpate could be useful by removing tendrils, or brain freeze.
also, its a flexable card that can be useful against any deck imo.
also, does anyone know of a good sideboard that can be used in any setting? (fnm, casual, big tourneys)
How often is a deck reliably putting Brainfreeze or Tendrils into the yard that you rely on Extirpate to remove it? Are you sure those combo decks aren't already going for the throat when they finally play that kill spell?
My main concern with this card as of late is how powerful is it really? It can remove threats from a deck which is huge, but it requires your opponent to be openly exposing cards for you to do this? In many of these situations they have already Chanted you, Thoughtseized you or are winning with the first Storm card cast. Hardly ideal for Extirpate.
That being said it can be very good against other combo decks such as Entomb decks.
well i try to play a turn 1 thoughtseize, so if i can do that then i can extirpate their wincon.
Although this is no doubt a legitimate gameplan, I find that this is in itself narrow as you are effectively relying on two cards to hate them out and hoping when the one connects that they do indeed have the card you wish to hit which is not always going to be the case. Oftentimes proactive hate such as Relic of Progenitus, Leyline, etc... will offer more efficient / less erratic solutions if these are decks you are having issues with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanabo
yes i agree. well, if thoughtseize resolves, then extirpate is no problem because it has split second. and you would use it as a follow up to thoughtseize/
That is not my point. The point is when going for the Thoughtseize/Extirpate command the following have to be true:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanabo
You have Thoughtseize in hand.
You have Extirpate in hand.
Your opponent has their win condition in hand.
If even one of these in untrue the entire plan is kaput. Not to mention you have to go all in more or less to even see if they have the win condition. Along with this, in many situations, if you do not have the Extirpate then you are going to want to hit things other than the kill condition (making this a poor multi-turn plan).
Lastly we assume they are not running Burning Wish or Cunning Wish (not to say every or any lists are but it is something to consider) and just win anyways.
ok, but if we seize them and they dont have the wincon, we just wait for it and counter it. then maybe follow it up with the extirpate.
The examples you used of a "wincon" are storm cards. By definition I don't believe countermagic is going to win that fight.