Why exactly would you play Mndbreak Trap over Spell Pierce?Quote:
Originally Posted by cjva
Printable View
Why exactly would you play Mndbreak Trap over Spell Pierce?Quote:
Originally Posted by cjva
Spell Pierce takes care of 1 counter from their side. Trap take care of three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
Often when we play against blue control and if they are of to a slow start the stack looks something like this when we go of.
1: High Tide
2: (them) Counter
3: High Tide/reset/card draw
4: (them) Counter
5: Reset/card draw
6: (them) counter
7: Mindbreak trap. Resolve our part of the stack, empty yours.
I'v been playing 3 Traps in the board lately, and I'v come to the conclusion that its the total Nuts. (i often board out 2 FoW, couse FoW is bad card economy, and trap is good economy).
The nice part with trap is that they either are forced to let us resolve spells, or having 4+ counters in their hand when we only have 1 trap.
I would probably play some split of Mindbreak Trap and Spell Pierce. My reasoning for this is that Mindbreak Trap is really effective when they actually counter three spells. However, if they counter any less than that, it is much worse at its hardcasting cost (though still pretty decent). Spell Pierce, on the other hand, is useful for countering hate (e.g. Counterbalance) precombo, while it is still a semi useful counterspell during combo. The only problem I would have with Spell Pierce is against blue decks, because our High Tides give them extra mana too, which might be dis-synergistic with paying 2 for Spell Pierce.
Overall, I would probably play one Mindbreak Trap as a wish target, and 3 Spell Pierce/Disrupt (I don't know whether the higher countering cost is better than the cantrip, or vice-versa).
I would play Disrupt every day of the week over spell pierce.
Sometimes you have "free spells" from them, when they play a Goyf of something in order to speed up the clock. In that case they only need to counter 2 spells on the stack for mindbreak trap to be useful.
But mindbreak trap are of most use when you play against some other slow deck. They build up their hand with different versions of counterspells, and we build it up with cards we need in order to go off.
It is also a nice addition against ANT, Belcher and other rely fast combodecks.
What i would never to thou is having it as a wish target. The good part of the trap is that it counters for free. Having the need to wish for it (even thou i have done it pre-combo in g1 in order to guarantee my win) is far from an optimal play.
Saying that. I use mindbreak trap mostly becouse my meta is infested with blue based aggro control and combo (ANT and between 2-5 belcher in a 20-30 man tournament). Had there been more zoo and other decks (more like what i can see in the European or American meta) i might not have played it. If you don't have to fear ~3 counterspells when going of, mindbreak trap aint that good, and disrupt might be better.
It is as always when discussing the non-wish board of our SB, a metacall.
The last 2 tournaments i'v played i'v almost gone X-0-0 much thanks to the traps. What's keeping me from succeding in the task has been bad mulligan decissions.
I was bored this morning so i created a few formulas that might be useful during tournaments:
Using the brainfreeze + flash of insight trick:
D = #current cards in deck. 60 - cards in grave - cards in hand - cards removed from the game.
U = #Blue cards in graveyard
Z = Storm count
D - U - 5Z ≤ 0
If this statement is true you have approximately a 100% chance (and greater if the number is less than 0) of being able to organize your deck with the Brainfreeze + Flash of insight trick
Formulas concerning max. mana currently available: L = land R = number of resets in hand T = number of turnabouts in hand X = currently tapped lands
0 hightides active: L(1 + R + T) - X - 2R - 4T = Total mana available
1 hightide active: 2[L(1 + R + T) - X - R - 2T] = Total mana available
2 hightides active: L(3 + 3R + 3T) - 3X - 2R - 4T = Total mana available
3 hightides active: L(4 + 4R + 4T) - 4X - 2R - 4T = Total mana available
4 hightides active: L(5 + 5R + 5T) - 5X - 2R - 4T = Total mana available
Chance of getting card you need formula:
X = Cards in deck
C = Copies of card(s) you need in deck
H = Current drawing/seaching power i.e. if you had 2 impulses this would be 8
P = Cards you need that you know are on bottom of library
Q = Cards you don't need that you know are on bottom of library
%chance = 100H((C - P)/(X - Q))
note: if you don't remember cards on the bottom of your deck or your in a situation where the cards on the bottom of your deck are irrelevant just ignore the P and Q part
If you could program these formulas into a TI-83,84,89 during a tournament I think these could come in handy, especially the first one.
WOw :eek:
Man you can not use notes written before game start during a game and that count as notes!!!
OMG LOL!!!!
X = you
Y = formulas
X+Y= Game loss
Post like abbeyroad's make me love magic. =)
Anyways, the first one seems pretty easy to keep in your head, and seems pretty easy to calculate in head as well.
But if you need to freeze to FoI and stack your deck its pretty easy to just put all copies targeting yourself, and then resolve one copy at a time until you reace FoI, after that count blue cards in gy and cards in deck in order to see if you need to resolve more copies.
I oftan cast brain freeze with the top and the bottom copy on the stack targeting myself, and then spinn from there.
@seraphus
First: sorry wasn't quite sure if formulas are allowed during tournament games.
Two: If notes aren't allowed all the formulas (baring the first) are null except for online games and possibly casual; however, the first formula still has practical application. It is easy to memorize and all calculations should be easy to do in one's head. There are definitely a lot of times where i do not know if my storm count is high enough to do the BF/FOI trick and with the formula it would be quick and easy to determine.
This may be your play method but Solidarity is the most complexed deck in the hole format...
Adding this calculation will turn playing this deck impossible...
You have to test harder and harder, hours after hours, knowing rules and knowing the metagame and other cards this yes will put you on the path of victory and success...
This is my little peace of advice...
Regards.
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here: it's "piece" not "peace" and it's "whole" not "hole." Your last sentence is a monster of a run-on and the ellipses makes your post annoying to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
Also, the patronizing tone of your posts is irritating, and you honestly don't have too much to justify that tone.
Past that: Yes, I agree play testing is important and I have done quite a bit of that as well as quite a bit of reading through posts on here. However, the first formula above makes the deck easier to play (not more difficult). For example, let's say you are at a point where your storm count is six, you know you have 44 cards in your deck, and you have 9 blue cards in grave. Let's also say you have a reset in hand, but you would rather use it after the BF/FOI trick if possible. With the formula you would have a systematic way to determine this.
Moreover, one of the problems with play testing is that you often can't be too certain unless you have the mathematics (or some other type of analysis) to support your point. Just because every time you do X you win Y% of games does not mean that the play is necessarily good. If a systematic method could be developed for determining how good a play was then you can improve and not make the same mistake the next game. I believe that if one notates each game and goes back and analyzes each game systematically one will improve as a player and gain greater insight into the deck. Simply playing a bunch of games will improve you as a player to a point (imho), but you will reach a plateau where thorough post analysis of games become necessary (formulas aid you in this endeavor).
Thanks for the spelling correction, you are not the first but don't worry because i may need to speak in English here but the real deal is Magic and playing solidarity - that my friend i have earn the right with results on tournaments.
I will never use such strategy and i guarantee you - if you want numbers: 100% (simple right?) that the trick you refer is the less usual, less well played, and totally danger (if you are not playing with BF on sb). If you say that not using a FoI with X= 9 (or more because you add on your post that you also have a reset on hand) a good call by all means, sure, go on with formulas and the mathematic analyzes, because, and trying not to offending you, will lead you through an amount of trouble for nothing.
I hope to find people at the Gp with calculator as the first minute of the game starts i ll just say: Judge!
And as you refer: the plateau you want to achieve for sure isn't achievable by not knowing the rules.
I wrote my last post with the best intention i guarantee you otherwise if i didn't want to help i surely could just give a shit about you not knowing the rules or letting go forward with your great mathematical theory of how to play Solidarity...
Keep whatever words - with bad or good English - of my reply, sure if you have any more question someone will reply to you with better English...
I hope you improve as you want and win all the games you play with Solidarity.
Played a small local tournament today. 25 ppl. Went 3-2 (again)
R1: BW Land destruction with lots of duress, hymn, sculler aso. Cutest nerd I'v seen amongst magicplayers. She was a girl and i won 2-0
R2: Zoo He draws bad, keep a bad hand and i win 2-0 without any special problems.
R3: Stifle/nought. (my deck that a friend borrowed) First game he steal a game with Turn 2 Nought and counter backup. he was on the play and i die. Second game he resolve CB and Top with FoW x2 Daze and Reb x2 in his hand. And he draws more counterspells and kill me off with a nought a bit later. 0-2
Got to teach him a bit about priority thou. That was funny. =)
R4: ANT. First game i spin in respons and win (his mystical and my freeze make sweet sweet love). Second game i board in Trap x 3 and 2 Twincasts. When i win the stack looks llike this
1: (him) Chant
2: (me) twincast - chant you.
3: (him) Chant (in go into tank and figure out he has boarded REB's against me)
4: (me) meditate
5: (him) Chant
6: (me) Turnabout
7: (him) Chant (yes he had 4 chants and Domsday in hand)
8: (me) twincast Turnabout
Resolve first twincast. Mindbreak trap chant #3, 5 and 7. Resolve my twincast. Spin and kill him off.
R5: Zoo 1-2
First i win kinda easy when he keep a pretty dangerous hand. Nacatle *3 some burn aso but only 1 land.
Second i lose hard. He runs me over and i stand no chance.
Third he forces me to go off, i have reset x3 but no tide. need to draw one with my meditate or impulse. I do, but when i try to untap he fireblast me and i die. he still got green mana up and shusher in play.
All in all in pretty happy with the result. Some smaller improvement in my mulligan decisions and Im hopefully gonna win a mox this saturday. =)
Im still insanely happy with Mindbreak Trap and im more or less never sorry when i see 2 in my hand.
Hi to everybody just passing by to say unfortunately (because i did was capable of more) but also to say that i am happy to get second place at GP Trial with 30 players...
Dispel from Worldwake could be playable or not?
Dispel what? Please, if you refer to a card, quote it or at least give a link. Comments like the one above are plain worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
It doesn't draw you a card, so no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
DispelQuote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
u
Instant Common
Counter target instant spell.
#26/145
I think it could help win counter wars, but Mindbreak Trap seems like it fills that slot so much better, and Mindbreak trap is also good against fast combo.Quote:
Dispel
u
Instant Common
Counter target instant spell.
#26/145
I m still resilient about the trap because against control decks it doesn't seams to work...
I am going to explain: the new powerful counter deck is Bant or Probant deck with or without counterbalance the deck have an incredible fast clock compared to other control decks so imagine that we reach the fourth land drop and probably the next turn is going to be the last one because or the "little" creatures kill us or the Progenitus does if no card was wasteded the number of cards in hand is around 5-6 next turn or we draw a land or a spell card making tha number of cards in hand total to 6 at least.
The start of the combo play normally is Tide than if it's forced we can answer with force, (cards in hand 3 opponnent spells 1 ), after that we only have 3 lands if we have 4 we only have 2 cards in hand and in that case we need to have in hand the reset card the wish/trap and draw in case of 3 cards in hand or FoI in grave. The other player normally will Countered our counter and without care about losing their hand if he is sided in we face: Spell Pierce, Snare, Force, Daze and maybe Mindbreak Trap it self!
I am using Pact of Negation but the amount of hate that especially this deck uses is ridiculous: Mage, Tegg, Snare, Daze, Force, Pierce!
Hope to see a lot of Solidarity at Madrid GP, Regards...