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What would you guys suggest for anti combo sideboard cards? I already play 4 Cannonists, but I don't seem to have a lot of trouble with most matchups besides combo so I would love to devote a few more slots to it. The card that looked the strongest to me was Leyline of Sanctity since it also gets around thoughtseize, but I don't know what you guys think?
Sphere of Resistance. Possibly Chalice.
I have been testing my build that i posted earlier and i noticed that i need a few more mana sources. I also took a closer look at Dispatch again and decided that while its a great card the loss of reach and the one mana casting cost make it not good enough.
I decided to replace Dispatch with Shrapnel Blast. At first i was thinking about Galvanic Blast but the one mana casting cost scared me a way a little. You dont really want to play one mana casting cost cards at the moment if you can avoid it.
With that said i added three Great Furnace to the deck and cut one Ancient Den. I think i will go down to two Ancient Den and up the Furnance count up to four.
The last two remaining slots were filled with Frogmite for now.
Thi is what i ended up with.
22 Mana Sources
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Ancient Den
3 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
1 Glimmervoid
26 Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Master of Etherium
2 Frogmite
16 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Shrapnel Blast
Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
Any further comments or ideas ?
how was porcelain legionnaire and vault skirge, i have still to test them, and i am interrested in both cards
why no etched champions and springleaf drums and no disciple of the vault if playing arcbound ?
Hey,
After I've read nearly all important sites in this thread, I decided to show you my list and explain my choices and thoughts for Affinity.
General thoughts:
Arcbound Ravager or not ?
-> I think Ravager is one of the strongest cards in the deck. Even without Disciple. His main job is to confuse the opponet and make simple decisions very complicated. He makes removal useless and is some sort of removal magnet. And when he dies, he makes another creature stronger (especially Etched Champion profits here). Also it isn't that painfull to draw lands when Ravager is on the field.
Disciple or not ?
If you play black, I would play him. He is so good in pressing some damage through. He is also very helpful against combo decks like DFT and ANT.
Currently I know some people playing some sort of Landstill with Peacekeeper in the sideboard. Disciple plays around Peacekeeper very nicely.
Tezzeret or not ?
-> Tezz is great, but I don't like him in Affinity. I tested him against some of my friend and he wasn't that overwhelmig to me. Often he was clogging up my hand and came not before turn 4. And then he didn't do to much besides dying to a goblin horde or something like that ...
What to do against Null Rod ?
I played a small tournament and played against a guy who got it two times in the first round (After sideboarding). I think there isn't much you can do against it. Play discard or artifact hate.
If you are playing red artifact hate seems the best option. I often thought about Overload because it gets rid of Null Rod, Vial, Jitte. And is pretty much nuts against other affinity decks. Another option is Crush from Besieged. Deals with every single equippment, Rod, Vial, ...
Green could use Nature's Claim. But green doesn't offer much other cards to play with.
Discard I would run: Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, ...
Now for the list:
Affinity UBW
Creatures:
4 Etched Champion
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
2 Ornithopter
Non Creatures:
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
2 Thopter Foundry
Lands:
1 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Den
Sideboard:
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Duress
2 Deathmark
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle
It is a pretty standart list.
Etched Champion: This card is soooo insane. Against aggro decks like Zoo he is the matchwinner. Blocks every creature and can't be killed. Equipped with Cranial Plating he clubs everyone to death in ca 2 rounds.
I like him better then Master of Etherium for the following reason:
Champion is unblockable und unkillable. Master dies to every removal in the format: Smother, Swords, Path, Ghastly Demise, ...
My meta represents a lot of agressive lists like Zoo, Deadguy Ale, Goblins, ... and so I think the Champion is way better, then Master.
I think 4 3cc creatures are enough for 14 lands, 3 Moxes and 4 Drums. The maximum of Champions and Masters I would play is 6. Something like 3 Champions and 3 Masters, ... or something like that. But this could also be very clunky ...
Signal Pest: The new and improved Ornithopter ;). I absolutley love this card. Raises the preasure, is nearly impossible to block (Cranial Plating !), ...
Only downside: Signal Pest is only a good card, when other creatures or Plating is on the field. But creautres on the board is always the plan of Affninty ;)
Thopter Foundry: Got this one from Tim Morrisons list. Its a really good card, specially against agressive decks. Makes removal useless, gains life, blabla and so on ...
Sideboard:
Self explanatory.
Ethersworn Canonist: Against Combo.
Duress: Against Combo and Control
Deathmark: Against Elves, Bant, Maverick, ...
Nihil Spellbomb: Against Dredge, Reanimator, Loam, Lands, ...
Pithing Needle: Against Deed. And other annyoing cards but mainly Deeds ;)
New Phyrexia:
I think the mentioned Skirge and Legionnaire are very nice. Didn't get to test them yet.
I also want to test Whipflare. Seems like a nice card for the Sideboard
Don't know what to think about Slagfiend. Could also be very strong with Ravager.
Dispatch seems a good addition too. But a lot of people don't seem too satisfied with this card.
In the future I want to test some lists with red.
Perhaps something like URB or URW.
Another interesting build would be a simple UW build with main Canonists, Dispatches, ...
Anybody already tried Canonists MD ? What were your experiences ?
Why doesn't anyone use Copy Artifact? Is it smart to be going into battle with no artifact/enchantment removal in the 75? And no meaningful creature removal, at a min Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice?
Copy Artifact is "win more," meaning that it's a horrible topdeck when you have nothing game-breaking on the board to copy, and when you could use it to copy something good, you are already winning because you have something good.
I would recommend some artifact/enchantment hate if you are expecting people to sideboard cards such as Null Rod or Energy Flux.
Creature removal is not necessary because this deck wins faster than most other creature decks. It's just up to your personal preference. The best removal, in my opinion, if Galvanic Blast because it can also be aimed at the opponent.
i was just now thinking of trying out lightning greaves as a 2 of, i was simply overwhelmed by the power of etched champion, making opponents removal allmost useless, i would love to have another way to do so, plus haste would be quite a good ability speeding our deck up a bit
what do you guys think?
Lightning Greaves are good. But I don't know a single card, that I would cut in favor of Lightning Greaves.
General question:
How do you sideboard ? I often end up by taking out Myr Enforcers, Thopters and/or Thopter Foundry ...
i am thinking of cutting my 2 thopter foundrys for the 2 lightning greaves, well at least they deserve testing, and it would be rather awesome if a ornithopter with plating can not be killed/removed, and even has haste^^, also i do not like my etched champions to die to jitte
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...0528&type=card
Good card. Great card. Just not great enough.
I have played affinity religiously for the past 6 months now. After much success early, here lately it has been nothing but null rods and energy flux. I must assume then that with the stoneforge decks becoming ever more popular, this trend isnt going to end anytime soon, and its correct to assume that the hate is going to get worse. ASt this current time, im hanging up my affinity :(( for a while. let the hate die out, and ill p[ick it up again when it seems good again.
Hi, new to this thread, I started by trying to make a more controllish list using a lot of affinity cards then ended up going in more of a midrange/aggro route. This is what I've got now, and it plays a lot like zoo.
Lands/Mana
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Great Furnace
4x Ancient Den
3x Darksteel Citadel
3x Mox Opal
3x Springleaf Drum
Creatures
4x Vault Skirge
4x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Etched Champion
4x Frogmite
Equipment
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Spells
4x Mental Misstep
4x Thoughtcast
4x Dispatch
4x Galvanic Blast
3x Shrapnel Blast
No idea yet on what the sideboard should look like.
I haven't tried cranial plating yet, but it probably deserves a slot. I'd like to get back up to 4x shrapnel blast so I'm running the full 36 points of burn, but space is tight. I also looked at Glint Hawk in place of Vault Skirge but 1 is a lot easier than W, and lifelink is randomly useful. Plus it's an artifact to help get a t1 mox online.
I'm not sure how to describe how the deck plays out except as a faster zoo with better removal, acceleration, draw, disruption, and more fragility to hate. The mana is a bit fragile at 15 lands plus 6 moxes/drums for three colors, but its not a huge problem most of the time. Revoker just beats ten kinds of hell out of combo, naming either LED or Heritage Druid or something, combined with Misstep and the clock, you've got a decent combo matchup even pre-board. Although revokers lack of ability to hit wasteland does hurt some.
I've also been looking at meddling mage for the sideboard or maindeck, but am not completely sold on that. same with canonist. I know this list is a bit non standard and seems kind of thrown together, but its been holding up surprising well in testing so far. thanks. suggestions are always welcome.
Springleaf Drum wins games. To make up for that loss, add in the 4th Opal, a set of Ancient Tombs and some Chalices. That way, you could go for Tezz to help support the SB FoW and cast him on turn 2 off a Tomb, an Opal and an artifact land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver027
Mental Misstep has changed this deck for me. Until MM, Aether Vial was still very much worth running in metagames where this deck belonged (*I won't explain again why -- if you don't understand why Aether Vial was worthwhile, then you don't understand the card in Legacy). MM has forced me to move on to other versions I've been playing. Post Mental Misstep, this is the version I suggest you play:
// Lands - 16
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 City of Brass
// Conditional Mana Sources - 8
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
// Glue and Mana Source Enablers - 12
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Frogmite
// Scaling Bombs - 16
4 Cranial Plating
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Master of Etherium
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
// Other Bombs - 8
4 Etched Champion
4 Thoughtcast
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Disciple of the Vault
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
I've already covered most of the cards in this list in this thread. I'll briefly explain a few thoughts:
- Overall, the decks mana-curve is moving up. The mana-base is a bit stronger, having to accommodate a higher CC-curve and picking up the slack for losing Vial. I'm still testing 17 and 18 lands even. Mox Opal at 4 is necessary without Vial. You want to consistently make your MoE/EC drop and play Tezz on t3 or 4 whenever possible.
- Ornithopter isn't necessary when you have Pest (flying) and Memnite (freebie).
- Etched Champion is bonkers, winning you otherwise winnable games, both when you are down as a near perfect unremovable blocker and unblockable attacker. It alone muscles out either Enforcer or Disciple, playing a very similar defensive and offensive role, but usually in a less conditional manner.
- Disciple sits in the side, still very necessary against decks which pack plenty of removal or require his combo. He's an amazing card in the matchups where you want him, and in others, he isn't great -- reasonable sideboard material. I side him in often, I just don't have room for him in the main of a non-vial version of the deck.
- Tezz is consistently playable with this mana-base, making him an easy 4-of.
- I'm not even attempting to answer storm combo or any form of mass artifact hate.
- Grip is still the best answer for a ton of cards that just beat us otherwise. This deck belongs in a blue-metagame, and Grip goes with it.
- Revoker is a []D [] []V[] []D. Unfortunately, he isn't worth playing in the main, diluting a very aggressive aggro-combo gameplan against unknown decks in G1, but he is amazing sideboard material.
- Some metagames, Zoo/Burn/Sligh heavy ones in particular, should run 2-3 Thopter Foundry in the side. Otherwise, the card isn't worth it.
If you have any questions which I've not already answered in this thread or the old one, I'll be happy to answer them.
peace,
4eak
I don't know if my deck qualifies as deadguy or affinity but here it is anyways:
Creatures (28)
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Etched Champion
Artifacts (10)
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Spells (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares
Lands (18)
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
Sideboard (15)
4 Duress
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle
I basically use affinity as a metalcraft enabler and mana accelerant while I try to win with equipments.
So, is there no love for Vault Skirge? I can see that it may not fit in an extreme aggro version of the deck, but isn't it a good fit in a mid-range version. I've played with it a bunch and like it, but I'm on the fence. What are people's thoughts?
I had some other question, but I forget...
I love Vault Skirge. It's Thopters 5 - 8 just better.
I have played a few games with my new deck and Vault Skire either eat removal right away, carried a Plating for the win or just gave me enough time to kill my opponent.
It's a great addition to the deck in my oppinion.
I had some success today with a Vial Stoneforge Affinity build:
Got 3rd out of 25 at a local Tourney.
It had some smooth tricks that noone saw coming against them.
4x Seat of Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Inkmoth Nexus
3x Glimmervoid
3x Mox Opal
3x Springleaf Drum
4x Phyrexian Walker
3x Ornithopter
2x Vault Skirge
3x Frogmite
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Etched Champion
4x Master of Etherium
4x Aether Vial
4x Thoughtcast
1x Spell Snare
2x Cranial Plating
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
SB:
3x Seal of Cleansing
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Spell Snare
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Batterskull
Tournament Report:
Round 1: Team America
Game 1:
This was pretty straightforward. I start with Citadel, Drum, Walker and Vial and win over a big Master of Etherium + Frogmites. He struggled a bit but without many counters he couldnt outclass them.
In: 1 Spell Snare, 1 Oblivion Ring, 3 Surgical Extractions, out: Frogmites, SoFI & Vaultskirge
Game2:
This was interesting. It seems like he kept a low counter hand again and i start of with Drum again, getting my Vial forced. I extract his force. My Stoneforge Mystic resolves but he stifles his trigger. He wastes a land from me and wants to create a lock over Life from the Loam with wasteland. So I go for Cranial Extraction on his Wasteland which kind of destroyed his plan. I beat him a lot with my Stoneforge Mystic alone and an Etched Champion. He relies to sylvan library to find some answers in time but he doesnt. He lay his Tombstalker and the race starts. I was ahead because of the early beats but its getting way closer now. He snuffs my mystic out leaving me with only Etched Champion and flooded mana. He is at 5 life right there, while i am at 6. Its my turn and i cast a Master of Etherium which resolves trough his lack of Force(:P), giving me that 1 point on Etched Champion to win me the race against Tombstalker. Nice, that was close.
1-0
Round 2: MonoRed Burn
Game1: I see a 1st turn Mogg fanatic and decide to go with an early Vault Skirge. Stoneforge Mystic follows, fetching Sword of Fire and Ice. I equip my Vault Skirge with plating and sword to destroy his gameplan.
In: 1 Batterskull, 3 Ethersworn Canonist Out: Sword of Fire and Ice, Walker, Frogmite
Game2: This is similar, he just starts with Lavamancer this time. I open with a Walker to drum into 1st turn Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull. Batterskull resolves and seals the deal aside with Canonist and Master.
2-0
Round3: Hive Mind
Game1: I have full gas + 1st turn Thoughtcast and all my stuff hits the table.
I race this game in time without seeing any counter at all. Only thing i saw was an Intuition on Show and Tell.
Out: Spell Piece, Stoneforge Mystic In: Ethersworn Canonists, Surgical Extraction
Game2: I keep a solid Hand without hate though and try to race. Of course he has his turn 3 combo and finishs me just because of one turn ahead.
Game3:
I have the nuts. I keep a hand with Canonist, Extraction, Aether Vial, and double Master+2 seat of synod. He just brainstorms in his turns to find some combo peaces laying tomb, tomb and city after 1st turn island. I built my field up with vial, double master and lots of lands i drew. In his fourth turn he hardcasts Hive Mind to go with a shitload of pacts to screw me. In response to hivemind i just vialed in an Ethersworn Canonist. He is completely upset about what i just did(lol) and reads the card twice and then calls the judge. After the judge said he cant win this he asked another judge who told him the same. Staring at his 6 life or something and my double Master he just scoops then.
3-0
Round 4: Merfolk
Game1: I saw that coming, but i thought I had a much better matchup than I would. First game i simply overrun him with vial, vialed stoneforge mystic into plating, plating on etched champion. Then Tezzeret sees play and 1 turn later I win.
In: 3x Seal of Cleansing, 3x Revoker, 1x Spell Snare, Batterskull
Out: Frogmites, Vault Skirges and something i cant remember
Game2: He starts with Vial while i keep a hand with Seal of Cleansing and Phyrexian Revoker but not much behind that. I lay a Seal turn 2 and clunk his vial end of turn. He hardcasts a Lord of Atlantis while having Silvergill out already followed my a Mutavault and a Wasteland. On my position i placed a Revoker on Coralhelm Commander and a Phyrexian Walker. He tries to play a Jitte which I spell snare. I had like 3 non artifact permanents and my affinity count was too screwed for a decent Master. From there he just overran me with superior numbers.
Out: Seal of Cleansing In: Ethersworn Canonist
Game3:
I start with Vial, so does he.
I vial in a walker end of turn and wait til I can vial in my mystic.
He has a Silvergill out again showing me Rejerey. I vial my mystic for batterskull. He dismembers mystic before i can activate. OUCH. I resolve a huge Master of Etherium and another Walker. He had some wasteland to slow me down and 2 Mutavaults. After some attrition wars he left a vial open at 4.
I dont draw into the revoker and dont mind at all, so I attack with my Master, Frogmite and Walkers and he responds with vial: Sower my Master. So there he got me and i had no outs to that despite it was only a 2/2 on his side. After that i think i threw my nerves away and make some combat blocking mistakes for not blocking Lord of Atlantis but it didnt matter anyway. My Inkmoth Nexus had some trouble blocking big fish too and so my only possibility on resolving a Batterskull was dead. I surely lose 2 turns later.
Maybe Batterskull is just slow tough. Might cut him completely from my 75.
Round 5: UW Cawblade
Game1: Nothing special. Everything I cast resolves and plating on champion wins the game after seeing some brainstorms and squadron hawks + mystic fetching a SoBM.
In: 3 Revoker, 3 Seal of Cleansing, 1 Spell Snare, 1 Oblivion Ring
Out: Sword of Fire and Ice, vault skirge, Tezzeret, Frogmites
Game2: He plays some early Hawks while I play Stoneforge Mystic which fetches me a plating before it gets O-Ringed. Next turn I O-ring his O-ring to trigger stoneforge mystic into 2nd plating. I draw over thoughtcast into double Master. He gets a Meddling Mage out naming Etched Champion. How good I didnt have any. Its just attrition wars from now on, he flies for 2 each turn and i try to get some threats coming. I draw onto 3 Masters until my vial is ready trying to not catch counters on them. A Walker joins the fun with plating getting Equipped, swinging for 6 and getting blocked by a mage i think. He played another one naming Etched again. EoT i vial my first master. He still has some decent blockers from a Stoneforge into SoBM into 2 tokens milling me twice. So the slaughtery starts. Master after Master join each turn with 2 active platings being able to instant equip. Which I do and force him to block all my threads. His last try was Vendilion Clique on himself to find at least one StP. But fails.
Next turn 3 Masters are way too big. GG.
4-1
Yeah, so this was my first Affinity Approach, turned out quite well.
Only struggled against Merfolk which is a top deck at the moment.
Would have been able to win this if i didnt just fear that damn Null Rod which nobody boards against me at all and boarded Canonist instead of Seal. I really just needed that one more artifact body to win the game, but yeah.. Cant be perfect. I hope this inspires some people to play affinity again and to win some tourneys. Its really great with SFM, trust me. Fetched plating is a beast, but Batterskull is too slow to be any good.
I played Mystics in Affinity at my last local as well. Beat BUG Deed/Visions, BG Elf Aggro, U/w/r Stoneblade and Merfolk, losing to U/w Stoneblade. Different style of list, though. Never had a time where I wanted something other than Plating to fetch with SFM.