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The two Tarmogoyfs was a little odd. It seems like a big reason why he didn't beat High Tide in the finals was because his clock was slow. Also, Runed Halo in the board is weird. I guess he was expecting a lot of combo (not just Storm, but Enchantress perhaps)?
What do people think of Thrun VS Merfolk? Too clunky? Sure gets around counters and Submerge.
Just to be clear, he got the Sea and Taiga. lol Would be nice...Quote:
Originally Posted by stasis
It depends on the store and the type of tournament. In this store it was $25, although I had $9 store credit. First got Sea+Taiga, second Sea, third FoW+Dreadnaught, fourth got Goyf, and store credit on down to 8th.
(See here)
This 59 player tournament was $20. Different store. Other times the TO has $10 100% store credit tournaments.
Could have just been a budget/availability issue.Quote:
The two Tarmogoyfs was a little odd
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Sick finals, Eli lost. But despite having not much combo hate he drew well and really pummeled Alix in all 3 games. In games 2 and 3 Alix won when on the ropes, about to lose next turn. Game 3 in particular was totally dramatic, a real Gabe Nassif "here's my cruel ultimatum mana" moment. Eli doesn't cut Alix's shuffle off his ponder, and the card he flips is Time Spiral, one of like 3 outs in the deck I think. Amazing match. A bad matchup to be sure, but fun as hell to watch.
I think if he had Canonist in the board it might have been much different. Canonist + Mom is really punishing.
Tournament report by popular demand
// Lands
1 [IN] Plains (1)
1 [US] Swamp (2)
2 [A] Bayou
1 [A] Scrubland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [PT] Forest (3)
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [A] Savannah
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [OD] Terravore
1 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
// Spells
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 3 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 2 [US] Duress
SB: 2 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
The SCG website made an error, as there is only 2 Deeds in the SB not 3.
I did not get much time to test, but I know I wanted to play Green Sun's Zenith and turn 1 Dark Confidants. Mark Tocco suggested Stoneforge Mystic instead of a second Jitte and a singleton SoFI as a tutor target on Saturday night. In exchange I also suggested that he add a single Trygon Predator when he got rid of his Spell Snares in his Counterbalance list.
30 minutes before registration closed we ended up cutting Maelstrom Pulse from the SB for more Deeds to beat up Affinity, Merfolk and random stuff. I also suggested to Tocco to not play counterbalance in a field full of Zenith green decks and instead suggested Tendrils to crush mono creature decks. Nice audible eh?
I will also be pointing out some flaws in play and deckbuiling on my part and in Legacy's part.
Round 1:
Beat mono red burn. He showed my his double Blood Moons in his hand that did not anything. Pretty sure not playing cards that kill them in your mono red burn deck is pretty bad, unless somehow the format becomes dominated by Dark Depths...not to mention I made sure to fetch up basics in case he had Price of Progress.
Round 2:
Beat Green Sun Zenith Zoo. I ran out a Terravore, used stoneforge to get a SoFI(Jitte was already in my hand), put the SOFI onto my Terravore and he triple blocked my Terravore to kill it. I won that obviously.
Round 3:
Me versus UR Sneak attack/Show And tell
Punted game 1 when I could have used Mox Diamond to GSZ for a Knight of the Reliquary to find a Karakas. For some reason I decided that I had to play my Dryad Arbor and was thinking I would have to wait until turn 4 to play my Knight. I passed the turn and IMMEDIATELY noticed that I could have pitched Dryad Arbor to Mox Diamond. I obviously topdecked the Karakas when he Show and Telled Emrakul.
Game 2 he Brainstromed and shuffled away some lands for more business. Then I Vindicated and Wastelanded his mana sources. Along with my runner runner Thoughtseizes and Duresses that probably didn't matter after the 1st or 2nd one. Lucky noob eh?
Round 4:
Dredge with Life from the Loam, Darkblast and Dakmor Salvage...
My opening 7 was Verdant Catabombs, Green Sun's Zenith, Dark Confidant and assorted 2 and 3 drops. I thought about it for a few minutes and kept. I don't remember who played first but I Zenithed for Dryad Arbor, played Dark Confidant and did not draw another mana source for a turn or two. He kept his 7 and led off with Putrid Imp and Careful Studied away a few lands.
I did not see a dredge card for a few turns and thought he was playing that UGB Vengevine Madness crazyness. My mana screw eventually got to me and I died to 2/2 and 1/1 beats from zombies and imps and illusions.
Game 2 he mulliganed into leyline of Sanctity. Fortunately his dredges were whiffing up lands and random anti-hate cards and his deck's general slowness allowed me to finally draw a Vindicate for his Leyline and exile his graveyard with Nihil Spellbomb. Game 3 he did not keep a Leyline and runner runnered Nihil Spellbombs for the win.
I asked Mark Tocco if he would have kept my hand game 1, not knowing what my opponents were playing, and he said he would have. Would you keep my opening 7 in the dark game 1?
Round 5:
UWgr Counterbalance
Wastelanded and Vindicated his mana game 1.
He assembled Counterbalance and Top on turn 2 and I was never really in it as he always had something on top of his deck to counter my spells or Swords for my guys.
Game 3 was really interesting...on turn 3 I had a Stoneforge Mystic on the table and 2 lands in play. My hand is Marsh Flats, Thoughtseize, Tarmogoyf, Elspeth, Sword of Fire and Ice. I played thoughtseize into his 2 untapped lands and saw that he had Sower of Temptation, Engineered Explosives, Firespout, Swords to Plowshares and Scalding Tarn. I took his Sower of Temptation with my reasoning being that he removal to prevent my guys from getting equipped. And I already needed to get lucky and rip a 4th land for Elspeth and trying to also rip a removal spell for Sower was putting more pressure on my draw steps. I won that after he Timewalked himself to set Explosives on 4 to kill my Elspeth.
After the match I had disagreeing opinions. Some people said Sower was irrelevant as SOFI gave my guys pro blue. And some people said taking Sower was correct. Opinions?
Round 6: Gerrad Fabiano with Team America
Game 1 was a long grinded out affair with 1 for 1s and him Hymn to Tourching me. Towards the end of the game his life was close to 10 and I was at 12 from playing multiple Thoughtseizes. He has no cards, double Tarmogoyf. My board is lands that don't tap for black, Noble Hiearch, a 9/9 KoTR that i just played and a Vindicate in my hand. I started thinking about tutoring up double Wastelands to lock out his green sources and his last 2 goyfs. He untapped draws a Sylvan Library and plays it. I draw a Scrubland and tank. If I take out his Tarmogoyf then I can just kill him with my Knight is that I thought initially. But then somewhere in my brain I started thinking about how him digging up 3 cards with Sylvan Library was bad news. I finally decided to take out his goyf, I threw down the Vindicate and my hand guided it to the Sylvan Library. I paused and thought about my punt, then decided to suck it up and accept it and pass turn. Also my Knight was lethal if I just Wastelanded my own lands something that I missed as I stopped paying attention to life totals.
He drew a removal spell for Knight and I died.
Game 2 was fairly uninteractive as I mulliganed into a mana light hand and got Wastelanded to my first match loss.
Round 7: Classic sligh zoo.
He mulliganed into a 2 lander. I wastelanded his Savannah and thoughtseized him and left him with: Kotr and Qasali Pridemage in hand. Tarmogoyf and a lone Mountain on the board.
I went 4 after he drew runner runner Bolt and Chain Lightning but I quickly put some lands into my graveyard and killed him with giant Terravore and KotR.
Game 2 I attacked his mana base and he died with a lone mountain again.
One of the first legacy decks I started performing well with was Sligh-esque Zoo. However I found that a lot of my losses were from mana light draws or dieing to Wastelands. After getting my ass whooped in 2010 with Zoo I quit and started playing Tendrils. I finally switched over to 24 land Wasteland Zoo after Survival was banned and found the deck MUCH more consistent despite being a bit slower. Something to think about...
Round 8: UGW New Horizons
I won game 1 when he really didn't draw much reactive spells but plenty of creatures for my removal.
I sided out 2 Swords for 2 Edicts thinking he was NO Bant. He obviously attacked my mana game 2 and my Edicts sat there looking stupid as I was stuck on white mana.
Game 3 I sided the swords back in, but that did not really matter as I returned the favor and locked him out of mana game 3.
Round 9: Ug Elf ball.
I kept a thoughtseize since Jesus was always playing elf decks in most Consctructed formats. Being the lucksacking fish that I am, I drew another Thougthseize to get rid of a Glimpse of Nature and Fauna Shaman. I did not play around Vengevine when I tried to jump from 2 to 4 mana with Noble Hierarch instead of playing a Tarmogoyf to block. It should have been fairly obvious he was playing vengevine as he had Fauna Shamans and tropical Islands, but I was getting pretty tired at the end of the day. Tarmogoyf beats got there.
Game 2 he mulliganed and after I thoughtseized him and I saw that he had a Krosan Grip. I ran out Engineered Plague to kill his two elves as I figured there was no point in playing around Grip and getting 3 cards with my 1 card was good. He made a game out of it when he Intuitioned for 3 Vengevines but lucky for us, he didn't draw a second creature to blow me out. I also misplayed my Jitte by not equipping it main phase 2...
And this lucky fish makes it to top 8 at 8-1.
I quickly got eliminated in the quarter finals by Alix's very nice High Tide list. Props to him.
Things I want to change...
Put Hymn to Tourachs back in. Alix was my first combo opponent that knew how to Magic correctly and my pin point light discard draws were easy to play around. I guess the match would have played out differently if I drew more than 1 Duress effect each game, but it is what it is...
I also want another pridemage or 2 in the 75 as knocking out random artifacts and enchantments is something I wanted to do the whole day.
I wish I could brainstorm another list but I gotta start testing for an Extended PTQ this Saturday.
Thank you! This was very interesting and informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya
(I think that Round 4 hand wasn't worth keeping.)
I noticed that you run a lot of accel, but no true mana sinks (GSZ really isn't one). Do you think something like a singleton Chameleon Collossus would fit in? Just brainstorming, really.
Thanks for writing that up.
I put good cards in my deck so i can draw them. :)Quote:
Along with my runner runner Thoughtseizes and Duresses that probably didn't matter after the 1st or 2nd one. Lucky noob eh?
SOFI could be destroyed by EE making his sower relevant again. However, this would have left him with no answer to elspeth. I think either way you had the game. You also have 8 outs in your deck against sower (swords, vindicate) but no outs vs swords other than the discard you just used. This may sway the decision in favor of swords.Quote:
After the match I had disagreeing opinions. Some people said Sower was irrelevant as SOFI gave my guys pro blue. And some people said taking Sower was correct. Opinions?
I would not have. A single wasteland would have crushed you. Remember dryad arbor can be wasted.Quote:
Would you keep my opening 7 in the dark game 1?
there are several times where you "luck" into more discard. I agree with this.Quote:
Things I want to change...
Put Hymn to Tourachs back in.
you can play around submerge with mox diamonds and never getting a bayou. they have no answer to diamond :)Quote:
What do people think of Thrun VS Merfolk? Too clunky? Sure gets around counters and Submerge.
I don't think I'd keep this against an unknown. One Wasteland could easily put you out of the game.Quote:
Verdant Catabombs, Green Sun's Zenith, Dark Confidant and assorted 2 and 3 drops
As for the Sower... I wasn't there, so I'm not totally sure, but from what it sounds like I probably wouldn't have worried about it. The Swords to Plowshares seems like the best choice to take. At the end of his turn, drop SoFI with Mystic, then equip and swing on your next turn. He can't drop Sower or you'll just kill it. With no Swords, he'll have to try to EE@2 your Mystic. Once he drops EE for 2, you're free to play Elspeth. Don't make a dude until you get another 2 mana open to equip it with the Sword although unless he draws another removal for your Elspeth, he's really in a bad spot.
what do you guys think of Thrun, the Last Troll vs elspeth, knight-errant?
Thrun, the Last Troll is clearly better against force of will, but this can already be handled with discard. He is also stronger for stopping several small guys.
elspeth, knight-errant is better against Moat and Humility, which can also be handled with discard and vindicate.
WW seems easier to pay than GG however, especially if you only run 2 bayou.
I don't think it's an either/or sort of thing. I'd run 1-2 Elspeth MD if I wanted another versatile threat and I'd run 2 Thrun in the SB if I wanted an extremely resilient beater.
If you see more Thopters, Elspeth. If you see Stax, Elspeth. If you see MUC and more Counter-heavy decks, Thrunn isn't bad at all.
Very nice report! I enjoyed reading it. No Hymn made me really sad. How often did you get Mox starts?
-Matt
Great report! Any conments on how the diversified accel suit was? What's the reason behind it? I'm sure the hymns would have helped a lot against combo. Then again, the manabase would have to be very different. Cheers!
I found out about this tread from another forum, figured I would post here. I put together a GP Columbus Junk build about 3 weeks ago and planned on playing it in Memphis this weekend. I got out of Magic like a year ago, so I now only own 75 cards, lol. I got hooked into Legacy right before I stepped away from the game so I am looking forward to this tournament. As a once avid T2 player, I really feel Legacy is where its at. When I decided to go all in and build a legacy deck I choose the Junk list because it just felt like everything that Magic fun to me. It was interactive, it was creatures, it was hand hate, all that jazz, so I am pumped to see it do so well.
With the rise in combo I think I should keep my extripates in the sideboard. I didn't see many lists run them recently. They seem to good against most combo decks. Leads me into sideing in Duress as well. I have the standard 4 Hymn, 4 Thoughtseize, and 2 Verdict discard package. Against combo I would think brining in 3 Duress and 3 Exitraptes should clean the match up pretty well.
Say hi on Sunday to me if you see me, I will be the guy with a deck box that says all my cards I own are in this box, LOL.
Nice to have you here! Hope to see you place at the event!
-Matt
welcome.....Back to the game and to the forum....I know the feeling of coming back in.. I took a brake myself I played one night with a buddy that moved back to town and BAM! I'm hooked again....lol
Anyway I love the legacy format and I will not waste my money or energy on anything else....
Im alittle biased but I think you chose a great deck..Lol...Keep us posted on how you fair...
This is actually an amazing idea. It is unlikely time spiral decks can win with only 1 high tide! Even if you cannot discard it just extirpate it after they play the first and you should be good!? I think this needs testing. Do they keep one in the board for cunning wish? probably not. Also removing all of their timespirals or meditates seems to make it difficult for them especially when combined with your own discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc1010
The Mox Diamonds felt like staples that never should go as they provide much needed fixing. And once in a while you get a turn 1 Dark Confidant and the game is such a blow out. I don't remember the details of most games where I had a turn 1 Bob, as they ended pretty fast when my opponents got crushed in card advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
The Noble Hierarches almost ended up getting cut, but Mark Tocco suggested they stay as my deck was full of 3 drops for me to ramp into and it allowed me to get Knights or a Terravore on turn 3 with Green Sun's Zenith.
Taking lessons from NO Bant's Hierarch and Daze plan, the Wastelands play very well with Noble Hierarch, as its now a bit unfair when you still are up a mana source after Wastelanding your opponent.
Atm I am experimenting with maindecking 2 Gerrard's Verdict in my MB as it plays better on the current manabase.
I will experiment with Hymns, hopefully before the weekend, or just go back to the Sensei's Divining Top, Hymn to Tourach, no GSZ plan.
Perhaps birds of paradise will give you the BB for hymn. (instead of nobles)u
Here is what I plan on running this weekend. The main deck is identical to the GP Columbus list except I choose to +1 Forest and -1 Swamp. The sideboard is currently identical however I am considering lowering the Engineered Plague's to something more useful for the uprising of NO Bant/Show and Tell, and other Combo/Storm decks.
Not sure yet though, I don't want to over-hate and commit to many sideboard slots. I've toyed with the idea of adding Bitter Ordeal to side. You can hit between 2-4 cards from their library usually. Getting rid of both copies of Progentius and a enabler seems pretty good to me.
Extirpate is staying in for sure. It's amazing in the mirror and amazing against combo (storm/high tide). I'll post a report or something next week. Say hi if you recognize me. Hoping to just have a good time, and win a few games while I am at it. :cool:
// Lands
1 [ZEN] Plains
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [ZEN] Swamp
3 [A] Scrubland
2 [A] Bayou
1 [ZEN] Forest
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
// Spells
1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AP] Vindicate
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 3 [US] Duress
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
PS One of my favorite plays is to Verdict myself, grow my Knight, and net 6 life. So awesome.
Very solid and traditional list, it's nearly identical mainboard to the one I was running. Sideboard looks solid too, although I don't know if you need all 4 Plagues, as 3 is usually more than enough to demolish Goblins. I would try to fit in 1-2 Pithing Needles.
Is there any place that keeps track of archtypes at SCG tournaments? Not just top 16s, but like X% of the field was Goblins, X% was Merfolk, etc.
If not, for those of you who have been to a big tournament recently, do you feel the lack of Goblins in the top 16s is more a result of the them being cold to the meta (combo in particular) or a result of it just being less present?