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I love Sylvan Library and tested in some against Esperblade, but found the life loss to just provoke TNN beats on me. I wish it had just been the TNN/goose that I took out to test it. Those were my simple results though. I just think it's important to find ways to close out games, but I can see it being absolutely amazing vs Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
@Kingslayer: If you cut a creature to make room for sylvan library it won't be nimble mongoose, but Tarmogoyf. 1 Mana for a 3/3 shroud is still very good.
The idealistic game in my opinion would be: Drop Delver,knock my opponent down to approximately 10 life before it dies,than land a nimble mongoose and library which provides me enough counter and removal for any potential blockers and seal the deal.
If you have tarmogoyf instead of Nimble Mongoose in the same scenario it would be more difficult because you have to dig also for spells which protect the lhurgoyf.
Concerning True Name Nemesis:
Either you include the Fish in your 75 (maybe in the Maindeck) or you fight it.
I'm still in the testing period,today there is another big session here in berlin and 3 golgari charms in my sb are waiting to to dismember tnns
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Today there was the weekly wednesday tournament in east berlin so i went there with my current build of 4 delver 3 nimble mongoose 3Deathrite Shaman und 3 Tarmogoyf.it should be an experiment to cut a nimble mongoose (no joke ,honestly) for the 3rd shaman.
Well i went 4:0:0 and 8:1:0 in games which makes me feel pretty confident about the current list.
2:0 High Tide (always kinda freewin with infinite countermagic)
2:1 Bug Nic Fit (Explorer is annoying but a pretty even Mu i guess,depends on his manabase)
2:0 punishing Deedcontrol.
(My friend Holly wrote a primer about this deck a few minutes ago,check it out ! The Mu feels kinda 80:20 overall but maybe my opponent had some unfortunate draws.
2:0 patriot (g1 double Goyfbeatdown gets me ghere in a few turns. G2 was also pretty good,snaring a stoneforge feels so good and tnn got charmed 2 times.goose won finally.
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Gratz! I play the exact creature configuration too. Did you change the SB? In your last post you had only 2 DS main and 2 Rough in the SB. Did you change something in that case because of your new creature configuration?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Why do you play Dismember over AD? I think with 3 DS + 2 Seas its quite good castable and very flexible especially against equipment or Balance.
Greetings
Thx
I cut all roughs and now my sb has 3 charms.
Dismember vs Decay:
I wrote last week about those card here in the thread.
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Hello everyone, long time reader and first time poster on this thread.
Just wanted to share my latest take on the deck and some background info :)
I've been playing RUG for several years, with couple strong finishes in local tournaments. Haven't played legacy in a tournament for over a year or so i think (no tournaments in my city), but still actively tuning my deck and playing with friends when i could.
Anyways, after switching multiple times from RUG to bUrg im now at this conclusion:
Lands (19):
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
Creatures (11):
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf (Can't say no to this guy :})
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Nimble mongoose (Tested first 3 geese 1 shaman, liked multiple shamans more and usually 1 geese does the work)
Sorceries & Instants (30):
1 Green Sun's Zenith (Decided to give it a try, I rather play it MD than SB, usually finds the guy needed + flips delver)
1 Fire // Ice
2 Dismember (I like these more than decay, because the mana cost is easier and answers for stalker too)
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
Okay that's the maindeck, haven't missed rest of the mongeese so far, but we'll see after more playing :)
Sideboard:
2 Submerge
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 Rough // Tumble
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
1 Golgari Charm (Maybe second charm for rough, but I also have EE for TNN and I like versatile answers)
1 Trygon Predator (The techy tutor target, may seem weird for people but I like him [at least with new art xD]. I know there could be better alternatives but I like that it's a threat and naturalize at same time)
1 Vendilion Clique (Has been in my sideboard for quite a while, have been satisfied for this fairie wizard :})
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (Have been testing him also for a while, I love the card, and with shaman its easier to cast. Shines in control and Pox/Lands matches)
1 Nihil Spellbomb (First I had Cage but with Zenith and black I like this more. Also good against ***** and loam)
1 Engineered Explosives (As I said, I like versatile removal and EE is a fine example of it. Have worked in the past and has many uses against various decks)
So, there's the deck. Note that I've had only been testing with mws lately, but still have put lots of thinking towards the deck :) In the end I think the feeling is the important thing that matters when deckbuilding (and everything you do). I Believe there's no "Absolute Ultimate Truth"(or Decklist in this case), everything is subjective in the moment. Sorry if little OT, just wanted to say how I feel, and for me at the moment my deck as a whole feels good :)
Also I'm planning on going to GPT Paris in next Sunday with couple friends. Feels good after long time :)
Well, thanks for reading, feel free to ask questions. I post later how the tourney went. Peace guys! :)
Weekly Legacy @ Friendly Troll 20 players.
I brought my good friend HeisenbUrg. Same 75 that I played on Sunday.
I survey the room and see there are a few graveyard combo decks in the field.
Round 1 vs Dead Guy Ale - Wilkin is well known and placed in the money at GP Detriot. His deck is well known as the Delver killer and he's very good with the deck.
Game 1. I pretty much get crushed by discard and card advantage
Game 2. I sideboard in my grind package bringing in Sylvan Libary, Umezawa's Jitte, life from the loam and Golgari charm for his bobs and lingering souls and other tokens. I trade a delver for a bob, and slam sylvan library and proceed to see 10 lands over the next 4 turns including fetching and pondering.
0-2
Round 2 I get a bye for my superb round 1 performance
1-1
Round 3 vs Jack on Patriot
Game 1 We fight over delvers and mystics. I know my opponent has used daze and force. I play my 4th land and play Truename and ride him to glory
Game 2 We both keep slower/control hands, nothing is able to stick the table and lots of wasteland action taking place. My opponent cast jitte but has no bodies so i allow it to resolve. I have artifact mutation but want to wait until i need it or a better target comes along. Opponent lands delver. I have a bolt in hand, what the heck. I blow up the jitte for 2 saprolings and start swinging. I follow up with Truename, delver flips but i ignore it because the 3 bolts in my hands wins this race.
2-0
Round 3 vs Manaless dredge
Game 1 Turn 1 delver, turn 3 truename gets there with turn 4 tarmogoyf defending.
Game 2 Dredge gets out of hand fast and i scoop on his turn 3
Game 3 pithing needle on phantasmagorian is huge and i slow his pace to a crawl and win with delver equipped with jitte, a truename. While Goyf stays back to block.
2-1
So i finished 3-1 after a dismal first match up to prize.
HeisenbUrg record 31-6
@ Arbiter
I agree with you on the view that there's no such thing as perfect build. Especially given the different play environments we all experience. One thing I notice in my deck list vs the german list is that they don't really run much graveyard hate. For myself its almost certain I'll face a dredge or reanimator deck at an event. This is another factor for why I favor 4 Deathrite Shaman as well as a cage and surgical in the sb. I suspect that germany has a lot more BUG decks that Toronto because running dismember over abrupt seems like madness. There is probably more chalice of the void and counterbalance in Toronto that dropping abrupt decay for dismember seems like madness. Right now in the Toronto meta there is very little to next to no Tarmogoyf, a lot of those players are on the UWR plan.
1 goose is interesting since its such a late game card.
Indeed,there are no dredge players or reanimator players around here.
@tormod: nice record so far,keep on rocking :-)
I testet some tnns in the mainboard a couple days ago and had such opening hands:
Volcanic Island
Daze
Force if Will
Force of Will
Abrupt Decay
True Name Nemesis
Wasteland
I mulliganed this hand for several reasons:
Abrupt Decay is dead,no chance to cast it :(
There is no cantrip or 3rd land which guarantees the Turn 3 True Name to apply pressure.
This Hand is going to go into the mid/lategame where other decks do their job better than us.
Another hand:
Deathrite Shaman
True Name Nemesis
Underground Sea
Tropical Island
Wasteland
Wasteland
Daze
Would you keep this Hand vs an unknown opponent?
I did not.
This Hand enables a potential Turn 2 True Name ,sure.
The weekness is obv the liability to thouhtseize or inquisition of kozilek,because this hand goes all in for True Name.
If the unknown opponent is combo we are dead
If he is control we are probably dead
If he plays blade and Stoneforge (dazeproof) we are dead.
My actual main reason to mull the hand is the fact,that i can't wasteland and (!) drop a creature on Turn 2 to create a timewalk and to support the daze remaining in our hand for his Turn 2 plan.
Don't you have the same problems?
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
ty Sawatrix. You sparked some good discussions and I love the artifact transmutation tech.
I run 4 Shaman and 4 Delver, so my turn 1s usually involve tapping out with daze back up, or holding mana open for spell snare when I'm on the draw.
For your consideration, in those sample hands you showed. Mongoose instead of a True-Name wouldn't have made those hands any better. It would have made the second hand strictly worse. I think the second hand is good. It would be better if there had been a fetchland. Turn 2 True-Name w/ Daze back up is free wins against a lot of decks, and just as good as turn 1 Delver. Odds are you'll find a cantrip by turn 3 to find what you need to support that line of play.
To answer your question, yes there are hands I mulligan too. :smile:
I'm very curious, please share with me. What is the German meta like?
The german meta is full of combo right now.
Let me reflect the Top16 of 2013 here in berlin:
2 Ant
2 Sneakshow
2 Tezzerator
2 Team America
1 german ***** (me)
1 elves
1 pox
1 nic fit (md Ghost)
1 Dredge
1 UW Stoneblade
1 uw Miracle (carsten Kötter)
Combodecks: 6/16
Control: 6/16
Tempo: 3/16
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
-1 TezzeratorQuote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
+1 MUD
:wink: The Meta in Berlin is sometimes full of combo decks (mostly why enough players own combo decks as theirs 2nd or 3rd deck), so it happens that you have to fight through mighty storm mages (like Mon,Goblin Chief) or skilled Show&Tell wizards (like JPA) without a breathing pause. With any fair deck it can be a hard day if you wan't to play some tournament rounds.
So a with a tempo shell like bUrg you can have some very good matchups (as sawatarix proves with a solid score). You only have to watch out for the terrifying monsters like nic fit, they will eat tempo decks without a doubt. :tongue:
Hey sawatarix, im interested in your thoughts and list. with three goyfs you are playin 13 creatures, Which countersuite Do you have? three snare? otherwise im interested in your Board, you play 3 charms, how do you board against tnn? 3 charms, 2 artifact hate and red blasts is very much, what do you board out against esper and patriot?
The biggest difference I noticed is that UWR Delver is very popular here in Toronto. I attribute a lot of that to SCG influence on Toronto meta. There are still plenty of graveyard strategies in Toronto. BUG isn't very popular here at all. We have a our good fair share of combo and fair strategies. It would also appear that D&T might be more popular here than in Germany.
very Interesting.
So if uwr delver and death&texas decks are that popular in your city i would recommand 2-3 golgari charms in your sideboard.
Personally I'm not a big fan of dread of night as it is to specific to waste a slot in the sideboard.
Today there is a grand prix 2-byes trial in my hometown,i decided to give thrun a well deserved slot in my sideboard.
Let's see how it goes,feel pretty confidant (but sometimes that is not a good sign at all ,haha)
Load, Aim, Attack !
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/etuma9y5.jpg
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Went 2-1 yesterday at my local FNM with this list:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Nimble Mongoose
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Tarmogoyf
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Spell Snare
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stifle
4x Wasteland
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Submerge
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Flusterstorm
2x Pyroblast
2x Golgari Charm
1x Fire Covenant
2x Smash to Smithereens
1x Life from the Loam
1x Surgical Extraction
Before you ask - yes, 2 Mire, but just because i don't have others at the moment :wink:
First Game against Burn.
He Races me like mad, lands a Price of Progress for me on 6. My Wasteland was tapped, so i couldn't waste myself - way too greedy play there from me.
Second game he Burns my Delver and Shaman; he Pyroblasts my counters. Meh.
Second Game against Elves.
I stifled some triggers; bolted the core elves and Goyf+Thresh-Mongoose doing their Work both games.
Third Game against BUG.
Game 1, i stomp him with a delver and 2 Mongeese, countered his goyf+Delver.
Second Game i race him at the start, he decays my Delver later, he lands a Tombstalker, which gets dismembered EOT. I Daze his second Stalker - he scoops.
I am super satisfied with the 2 goyfs, played another Decay and a library in these slots before. The Deck feels perfect right now! :smile:
Gentlemen ,as i said earlier i went to the GpT here in Berlin,
managed to get in the Top8 and lost in the semifinals.
Around 30 Guys registered for the event.
Round1: 0:2 Sneakshow
Round2: 2:0 UR Delver
Round3: 2:0 Mirror
Round4: 2:0 UW Stoneblade
Round5: ID
-> 10 Points and in the Top8
Quarterfinal: 2:0 UWR Delver
Semifinal : 1:2 UWR Delver
I took in G3 a mulligan to 4 (!) and kept a hand with Usea Ponder Bolt and Thrun :D
Well in that Game the Magic God punished me to hard,unfortunately...
Notes:
-My friend Duc for getting the 2 Byes for GP Paris (UWR Delver)
- Thrun was awesome all day long
- Won many rounds 2:0
- I had 5x Mulligan 6
2x Mulligan 5
2x Mulligan 4
Just....Dafuq?! Usually the deck gives me great hands (with lands :D )
Thx for reading :-)
Next week i will get the byes in mainz for sure :D
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
congrats on your top 8. It looks like you saw fewer combo and more fair match ups. All those UWR decks looks like my meta.
Did you run 4 delver, 4 goose, 2 drs, 3 goyf OR 4 Delver, 3 goose, 3 drs, 3 goyf?
4 questions:
1) How was 3x Golgari charm? (currently, I'm on 2 golgari charm and 1 forked bolt)
2) How was Thrun? (what did u cut for it, I'm guessing you cut 2x rough and tumble for 3rd charm and 1x Thrun)
3) Did you miss not running rough and tumble?
4) How much of a factor was graveyard hate?
Deck: German ******** by Kai Thiele
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:13
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
Spells:29
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
Lands:18
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
3 Pyroblast
3 Spell Pierce
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Submerge
1) 3 charms were great so far,having a lot of outs against tnn and supreme verdict is great at the moment.
2) Thrun caused some laughter and many headaches yesterday when i cast it against uw stoneblade and uwr delver . Thrun gets also boarded in against the mirror and jund.
3) rough is a great card and one of the main reasons to switch from german ******** to oldschool rug delver.
However, golgari charms kills almost the same creatures at instant speed.
You can also run 2 charm 1 rough if jund and goblins have a big comeback i guess.
4) graveyard decks:
My sideboard does not have a single gy hate,i decided to fight these decks with countermagic instead.
Reanimator,Led-dredge,ant and oops all spells are combodecks with a few must-counter-spells.
Negate these spells and you will win most of the time.
(And the 2-3 Shamans will finish them completely off)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
I've been following this deck for a very long time and I've been reading up on it in here and I just want to say I cannot wait to give this deck a try. The name first got me interested because of the show Breaking Bad and after reading this forum this deck looks amazing! I've been a control player and midrange forever and this has changed that :) I'm very excited to contribute what I can and try to make this more popular outside of Europe :)