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This seems like it could be viable. Not going to be able to adapt until turn 4 realistically (unless you're doing some sort of gut shot/mutagenic growth build), but then it's 5/5 flying which should seal up a game, also can drop turn 1 to chip away at them until it comes online.
I guess you could think of him like Tombstalker, although delve is much easier... I'd definitely want 4x Thought Scour and/or Faithless Looting with the Salamander doe...Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
I mean there is the upside that you could cast and Adapt multiples since you don't have to delve the cards away...
If only Gitaxian Probe was still legal...
Alas, you can only adapt once as the ability only works if it has no counters on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
What I like about it is that it's a turn 1 threat with evasion and I find my weakest games with U/R are those when I can't play a T1 threat. Even turn 2 or 3 it is ok and it's a good late-game topdeck. The loss of probe slowed this deck down a bit anyway so swinging for 5 on turn 4 is ok, though inconsistent, but we have enough cantrips and bolts to make it work fairly regularly.
What I don't like is that it dies really easily to pretty much everything and opponent can always react to the ability if they have removal. As you note it's yet another card that really would benefit from a probe.
Its not a Tombstalker at all because one has delve and the other is instants and sorceries only. The card looks very underwhelming tbh. Instant and sorcery only for 7 is A LOT and hard to archieve, which means it is super slow and and has naturally not a synergy with Lavamancer at all. Furthermore the reason playing Reveler is not the body, its the card draw (!) so a 5/5 flyer with THIS much needed resources is not gonna cut it for a aggro/tempo efficiency deck like Ur Delver. Also the Salamander does not help you to win crucial matchups against control or combo because Miracles can ignore how big it is since they removal don't care and GControl also gets it quite easy with Bolt, Push and Edict. Against combo the Salamander is WAY to slow and requires way to many resources, if you try to pump it earlier and tap out it might be even a missplay to not have mana for your important counter spell.
Overall its a Cryptic Serpent which can be played T1 but is also much easier to remove and Cryptic Serpent is not being played ever in Delver shells so I dont even give it a chance.
Edit: Also how bad is it to play extra cantrips like Thought Scour for a single creature and putting maybe crucial burn spells in your GY which can deal direct damage to your opponents face?! UR is a tempo/aggro efficiency shell which means there is no place for setups or anything, the whole idea about Delver is playing efficient spells and creatures while Salamander is not efficient at all, it needs a lot to be set up which works in Standard but not in Legacy.
Yea, I know that.. I was referring to the fact that you can more reliably adapt two or three Salamander than cast two or three Tombstalkers since you don't have to delve away the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
While I'm certainly not sure this card makes the grade, and erring far more on the side that it doesn't, but I don't entirely agree with this assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Firstly, I don't think you would be aiming to adapt it for 1 mana, more likely for 3 mana. Yes it's a lot of mana but by the time it comes online your hand will probably be near empty anyway. Further, when you reach your first turn that it is useable, any additional 1-mana instant or sorcery you cast simply reduces its cost and cancels out.
I also don't think a direct comparison with Bedlam Reveller or Cryptic Serpent is useful. Either of those cards in your opening hand is terrible and similarly in the first few turns, but the Salamander always does something. It may not do much, but it can chip away with evasion for 1 damage, it can chump block stuff including Marit Lage, or it might even just eat spot removal that then can't be used on another creature, but it's never going to sit in your hand doing nothing.
Clearly Delver, Swiftspear or Goblin Guide are far better in your opening hand, but Swiftspear and Guide tail off in their usefulness as we move into the later game, while the Salamander becomes better because we're more likely to be able to adapt it, even possibly on the same turn it is cast.
I don't think the nonbo with Lavamancer is all that relevant either. Lavamancers are removal magnets and if you're able to active its ability more than once or twice then you're probably winning anyway and not adapting the Salamander isn't an issue.
Lastly, I definitely would not start playing faithless looting or thought scour for this card, it's not worth it and fundamentally changes the type of deck it is as you'd be building it heavily around the Salamander. It's entirely possible to dump 5-6 instants or sorceries into a graveyard over the course of an average game with this deck with just brainstorm, ponder and preordain, which makes the ability useable.
That said, I don't have high hopes for the card but I am going to test out playing it as a 2-of to see how it does.
Why is Niv-Magus Elemental lists doing so well, currently? Is the combo with (3) Flusterstorms really that strong? I can’t see how this old new technology is actually working.
Did a load of testing vs a friend over the weekend to try out Light up the Stage. I switched the deck into a generally more aggressive mode (see mainboard list below). I played it against D&T, B/U/W Stoneblade and Miracles.
I really liked Light up the Stage. It never felt uncastable and there was only one time a card went to waste which was when I exiled two lands and had already played one that turn. While a couple of counterspells also stayed exiled, speaking to my friend after each game the counters did force him to make different plays than he had hoped for and impacted his efficiency. It pretty much always ends up as draw 2 for 1 mana, which is insanely good, and at worst it gets rid of a couple of cards you didn't want to draw anyway. Casting it for its full 3-mana cost later on in the game to get prowess triggers was also pretty viable, the card just really helps you keep up the pace in the mid-game and dig for the extra bolts you need to win. I'm gonna keep playing with it for a while and might take it along to the London MagicFest in April, but may tweak a few more cards, I kinda want to get a second basic mountain in but also quite like Barbarian ring.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Light up the Stage
1 Fireblast
1 Price of Progress
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
hey, thanks for testing. I also tested Light up the Stage a little bit (like 5 or 6 games), 2 points I want to mention:
1. You only Spectacle if you dealt damage which means triggering Prowess is not working how it should be. That being sad you have plenty more cards which can deal damage and its just marginal, but it can be "akward" when having 2 Monastery Swiftspears in play and nothing to trigger except for Light up the Stage. So in this case it would be a bad draw engine. If you Lightning Bolt first for example to trigger Prowess, you can cast LutS for Spectacle cost to trigger prowess but that could lead to being tapped out which makes the card less powerful.
2. LutS is practically a draw engine but NOT a cantrip! That is a difference since you sometimes want Preordain over LutS for putting 2 lands which you dont need away to find your last burn spell right away. That being said since you virtually draw the 2 cards you would only delay yourself 1 turn which can be not a big deal but can also be a huge deal when playing against combo for example. So keep in mind that LutS does not give you cards you need, only 2 cards which you might need. Also If you are running the card you definitely don't want all 4. I was on 2 copies and you can maybe go up to 3 in the right build.
There is a bit of a nonbo with Swiftspear, but we played about 30 games and only twice did I sacrifice 1 point of damage by using LutS after combat. I think losing 1 damage to get 2 cards is not the worst. A few other times I hard-cast it in the mid-game to still get the damage which, again, seemed fine as you can save the cards until the following turn. Generally I prefer to cast cantrips ahead of LutS in the early game.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Casting it after a bolt and being tapped out is not the worst thing as having the cards available into the next turn mitigates the worst of this. The deck is so heavy on 1-drops you can usually use both cards the following turn.
Agree that 4 is probably too many, I will try lowering it to 3 or maybe even 2 and replacing with Preordain as having two of these in hand can feel clunky.
One further point to note is that the requirement for spectacle is that your opponent loses life, not that you do damage. One of the early games we played my opponent used a fetch in my turn to cast countermagic, losing 1 life and allowing me to spectacle.
This made top 16 at the SCG yesterday:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Pteramander
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Island
2 Mountain
3 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Risk Factor
1 Vapor Snag
3 Chain Lightning
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
Sideboard
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Blood Moon
1 Abrade
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vapor Snag
1 Forked Bolt
I wonder if the Steam Vents is there against surgical or is just a budget reason. I like the 2x Pteramander, but the full playset of Stormchaser Mage is too heavy in my opinion
Surprised we're not seeing many LutS lists as yet. Been doing more testing and the card feels solid in an aggressive shell.
How many copies are you trying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
Still playing 4. I was thinking of cutting it to 3, but it's so strong I think 4 is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by alvoi
Really nice. Did you cut the Risk Factors or something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
I never played with risk factor, this is my current mainboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by alvoi
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Light up the Stage
1 Fireblast
1 Price of Progress
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29628&iddeck=248318Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
SCG Team Open - Baltimore
Kevin King playing UR Burn Position: 14
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Pteramander
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vapor Snag
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Light Up the Stage
4 Ponder
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
SB
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Blood Moon
2 Abrade
2 Electrickery
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
Yeah a friend pointed this out to me last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by talpa
King had this to say on twitter: "Light up the Stage is the real deal. I found Pteramander is not worth building around but is good at triggering Spectacle and providing late game power."
I'm trying a list very similar to yours and it's working really good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Pteramander
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Light Up the Stage
2 Preordain
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
1 Forked Bolt
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
I'm not sure on the flex slots of Preordain / Forked Bolt / Grim Lavamancer, someone has some better options? Lavaman is very powerful and if well protected can win alone games against decks like D&T and Maverick
Cool, how was the Pteramander? I'm thinking of dropping the goblin guides for pteramanders and maybe cutting the grim lavamancers for a couple of Young Pyro to see how it plays. Would slow it down a bit but maybe let the deck reach into the mid-game better.