Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Misplayer
@ Kadaj
So I take it that you’ve found the matchups where Propaganda is game winning outweigh the matchups that can win through it (Aggro Loam, Stax, Landstill) enough to run 4.
Do you prefer to play Keg proactively or reactively? In other words, do you play it when your opponents have minimal threats out and allow them to play around it, or would you rather surprise them with it if they over-commit?
Lastly, on your sideboard, in what matchups does Repeal come in?
I have indeed found that Propaganda is worth the full 4 slots despite its ineffectiveness against certain matchups. It's far too good against Aggro and Aggro-Control (Goblins, Suicide variants, all of the stompy variants, etc) and doesn't really hurt the deck enough against control to warrant cutting it.
I always play Keg proactively. It's far too slow to be used reactively and my build doesn't run enough counters to be able to keep everything off the board. In fact, Keg's flexibility once played is another major reason why I prefer to EE, aside from the fact that I don't run Brainstorm and will not add fetchlands for one marginal board control card.
Repeal usually comes in against certain Suicide Variants, random aggro, and everything mid-range. I have brought in one or two against Goblins, but beyond that it's hard to justify cutting too many cards.
Just for reference, my swap against Goblins is:
-4 Counterspell
-2 Spell Snare
-1 Fact or Fiction
-1 Back to Basics/1 Island (Depends on whether or not it's Mono Red Goblins or a splash variant. For mono red, 1 B2B comes out, for splash variants the island comes out)
For
+4 Blue Elemental Blast
+4 Chill
I have on occasion seen fit to cut more B2Bs if it was against Mono Red or potentially more FoFs, and the card that would come in those cases is a combination of Repeal and the singleton Shackles.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
I have a question, Kadaj:
I've followed this deck since Zvi destroyed Standard with it a while back, and I like where it's gone. I've read through a lot of this thread but I haven't seen why you aren't running Faerie Conclave, even as a two-of. Is it because it comes into play tapped? I've been running two of them and I like when I draw them later in the game since it gives me stuff to do with my mana and it's a threat that's pretty difficult to deal with. Is it not worth the possible "loss" of a land drop?
Also, what is your current draw suite? Are you even running Impulse or do you just have Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fictions? I've been running Impulse, but I get frusterated when it doesn't really gain me any cards, and this deck is very card thirsty.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
I am not Kadaj, but I too play MUC extensively. B2B, the reason MUC is still relevant in today's meta, doesn't play well with CIPT lands.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Faerie Conclave is not good in this deck because, as Arsenal stated, the only reason you should ever play this deck is because of how much of an utter beating Back to Basics is. Conclave does not play well with B2B and doesn't really offer this deck anything it actually needs, hence it not being here.
My draw suite for this deck is just X4 Ancestral Vision and X4 Fact or Fiction, although I do have some other variants I'm keeping under wraps for now (muahahahaha secret tech >_>).
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baumeister
Also, what is your current draw suite? Are you even running Impulse or do you just have Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fictions? I've been running Impulse, but I get frusterated when it doesn't really gain me any cards, and this deck is very card thirsty.
Well, maybe you should post your list here so we can give a better advice since it also depends on land count, stack-oriented version or more board control, etc.
@ Kadaj:
It's probably Meditate, isn't it? =P
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doks
Well, maybe you should post your list here so we can give a better advice since it also depends on land count, stack-oriented version or more board control, etc.
@ Kadaj:
It's probably Meditate, isn't it? =P
Actually no, although I did give Meditate a shot for a while. I actually think it has potential to play a supplemental role if I ever decide to do the unthinkable and drop down to 8 counters. Then again, if I ever do that I'll probably just switch to Landstill and call it a day.
On a totally different note, I'm going to sing the praises of Foil at this point. In the builds running more bulk card-advantage the card is a godsend. No it's not perfect, but the added early game flexibility and the ability to be a hard-counter later in the game instead of a dead draw (like Force Spike) have impressed me a lot in recent testing. Another card that has been interesting as a 1 of or 2 of is Pact of Negation. I know I said earlier that it seemed a little too weak, but more and more I've found the added mid-game punch has actually been really useful, and nothing catches people off guard more than Pact out of nowhere.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doks
Well, maybe you should post your list here so we can give a better advice since it also depends on land count, stack-oriented version or more board control, etc.
It's a little weird, so bear with me.
Lands (24)
24x Island
Creatures (3)
1x Masticore
1x Morphling
1x Guile
Draw (10)
4x Ancestral Visions
4x Fact or Fiction
2x Impulse (at the moment)
Counterspells (11)
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
3x Spell Snare
Board Control (12)
4x Propaganda
3x Powder Keg
2x Veldalken Shackles
3x Back to Basics
I'm probably stuck in the past with Masticore, but it can be game changing. I'm sure Meluko is better, but I like the agressiveness of Masticore. I like having ten cards that draw cards, especially bombs like Visions and Fact or Fiction. I want to test Think Twice or something else that in place of Impulse so I can actually gain cards. Spell Snare has been a lot of fun, and can be, in some cases, more useful than a counterspell. Let me know what you think.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
@ Kadaj, any new test results or decklist changes?
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
I've been gathering the cards i need for MUC, and at the same time keep trying to figure out what i want to play in it. Was hoping to get some opinions on a couple ideas i had.
If i decide to run Jace Beleren as one of the 3 win cons, what in addition to Morphling should be the third?
As of right now my "list" is looking something like
11 Counters
4 FoW
4 Counterspell
2 SpellSnare
1 Daze
10 Draw
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Fact or Fiction
1 Flash of Insight
1 Jace Berelen
2 Win
1 Morphling
1 Rainbow Efreet
13 Control
3 Propaganda
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Powder Keg
3 Back to Basics
The 1 Daze i put in under the following theory:
Daze is at its best in two situations. One is when your opponent doesnt know that you're playing it, and taps out for an important spell which you counter. Two is when you dont actualy have Daze in hand but your opponent knows you play them, and is forced to leave a mana open for his important spells.
Both of these cases are more likely if you dont have many dazes, but just one. The first time you play it in a match its likely to be unexpected. After that your opponent will play around it, but you wont be wasting deck or hand space by holding what has become a useless card.
I had actuably started with having 1 mana leak also, but have cut it for space reasons.
I would also realy like to put a 1 of Clockspinning into the deck, but cant figure out what to get rid of.
Early on it can speed up Ancestral Vision to draw the 3 earlier, or speed up the counters on Powder keg to wipe the board a turn faster then expected.
Late in the game it can be played with buyback to either make jace be onesided or even speed up the decking kill with jace.
Can also screw up opponents Vials, EE's, Chalices and who knows what else to make these cards work against the opponent instead of for him (making his own chalice counter his spells is just funny as hell).
All this stuff is theory in my head for now as i've never actualy played a MUC deck, so i wont be surprised if its all shot down, but if possible i would much appreciate a reasoning as to why one or another of my ideas isnt good.
Thanks.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard
@ Kadaj, any new test results or decklist changes?
For the moment, the only change I've been fiddling with is replacing Spell Snare with Foil, which has been surprisingly solid. Beyond that my list remains unaltered, although I am still looking for things to tinker with.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Hello all!
I am new to this forum but certainly not new to MTG.
I guess some introduction.
I am a dutch dude, plays Magic since Urza Saga. Since i began playing, White was my favorite color. Esepcially the card Opal Titan. I was 16 or so back then. I think 5 years later i started to play tournamnets. It was then when i discoverd i wanted to play mono blue. Control magic was the coolest thing for me, especially when you see it played in casual games.
From there i kept playing Mono blue. Heck even this extended season i tried mono blue.
I am not really a forum guy if it comes to MTG, but with the upcoming set i have some concerns about this awesome deck. I feel it might collapse.
Before i do that, i wanne say i played 2 tournamnets the last 2 weeks. One of 40 men and one of 57 man last sunday in MOL Belgium. The 40 men tournament i ended up in top 8 but lost first match there vs eva green. The second tournament i ended up in the top 4. Also somewhere in January this year i won a tournament of 70 men with MUC. Got 6 win, 1 draw. We didn't paly top 8.
The decklist i played of the last 2 weeks, if you are curious
15x Island
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Morphling
1x Meloku
4x Sower of temptation
3x Kira, great glass sea spinner (or whatever it's called)
3x Fact of Fiction
4x Impulse
2x Powder keg
2x Back to basic
2x Vedalkan Shackles
4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell
4x Force Spike
2x Cryptic Command
Sideboard
4x tormod's crypt
2x Sun droplet
4x Chalice of the void
1x Back to basic
1x Powder Keg
3x Pithing Needle
I really love MUC but like i said, with the upcoming set i really fear the worst. The card in question is
Vexing Shusher :rg::rg:
Creature - Goblin Shaman Rare
Vexing Shusher can't be countered by spells or abilities.
:rg:: Target spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.
2/2
Not only is this card going to help goblins versus MUC and other blue based counter decks , it will also strengh up ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh decks versus MUC with red splash.
This card can't be answerd with our control utility. Sure we can take it over with shackles, but in order to resolve shackles we need it not to be counterd or destroyed. To Protect shackles we need to counter the threat and the problem appears again, we just won't be able to do that.
I have been brainstorming about what to do about this card, because i know it will be a played main/side board card when it gets out. And sadly i havn't thought of anything yet.
This card is as stupid as tarmogoyf for me or maybe even more. I hope some people do know a solution and would like to share it.
Thanks
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
My worry about Vexing Shusher is highly limited because in reality by the time it comes online it's really pretty irrelevant. It's not going to see play in Threshold, where it might matter, and it doesn't really matter in Goblins because it's still highly removable in the same way that every other threat in their deck is and the worst thing that could happen is a SCG coming down. But even then, that's really not a big deal against my version because if I'm winning before SCG comes down, chances are I'm still winning afterwards because I have multiple Propagandas down and a B2B choking their mana supply.
Sure Shusher will be a pain in the ass coming out of combo, but chances are you're not beating combo consistently anyway. You can still kill it with Powder Keg or Engineered Explosives, you can still steal it with Shackles, and more imporantly in the matchups it's going to show up you can pretty much ignore it.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RoddyVR
The 1 Daze i put in under the following theory:
Daze is at its best in two situations. One is when your opponent doesnt know that you're playing it, and taps out for an important spell which you counter. Two is when you dont actualy have Daze in hand but your opponent knows you play them, and is forced to leave a mana open for his important spells.
Both of these cases are more likely if you dont have many dazes, but just one. The first time you play it in a match its likely to be unexpected. After that your opponent will play around it, but you wont be wasting deck or hand space by holding what has become a useless card.
I had actuably started with having 1 mana leak also, but have cut it for space reasons.
While I like the idea, I don't think missing a land drop is worth it. You just can't afford it, because you want to drop as many lands as possible, and much more so in the beginning, where Daze would matter.
Another question that occured to me while testing:
What are the Repeals good for? I've had them in my Sideboard for quite a while, but they actually never did anything useful; everytime I boarded them in order to bounce permanents I couldn't counter fast enough (I guess Survival would be the main concern here), they weren't necessary or did not solve the problem.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Repeal is definitely the weakest slot in the SB, but I'm at a loss as to what could replace it in most cases. Whatever it is it would need to be a highly versatile card that can come in against almost anything and at least have a modicum of effectiveness. Perhaps Phyrexian Furnace? I don't know. For now I'm keeping Repeal in not so much because they've been outrageously effective but because there isn't a whole lot else that can come in.
I have on occasion considered boarding either Douse or Hydroblast in addition to the standard 8 pack of BEB and Chill, if not only because you can never have the Goblins matchup too good and they would help against random Red-Aggro crap. Then again, I think if I went to a major tournament right now I'd keep the repeals in, or perhaps swap them out for Cryptic Commands, just to test them out.
Re: [DTW] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nihil
So I can answer an early threat with this and save my FoW for a more important late game card :eek:
I'm actually thinking this card could be very solid in the deck.
The problem I've had with this deck against aggro is getting to turn 5-6 with enough life that Shackles or Propaganda can save me.
Sower of Temptation/Control Magic are too slow to deal with fast aggro.
For example, turn four, I need to be able to both answer the threat that snuck thru before and counter a critical spell they try to play.
Or to both answer a threat and have the mana to activate the Shackles I played last turn to steal another one to use as a blocker.
Turn 5, I want to lay down both Propaganda and deal with a threat that snuck thru.
This lets me do that where Sower doesn't.
This card comes down early, and lets me save my counters and FoWs for more critical midgame cards.
I like it.
I lose to Pox regularly because I just don't have enough lands on the table to play anything that can answer their Tombstalker.
The 1UU steal a creature with cc of 2 or less is too narrow to answer threats like Negators and Tombstalkers. This isn't.
So what do you guys recommend I cut for this?
Re: [DTW] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
So what do you guys recommend I cut for this?
The last two pages of this thread are filled with people just saying "Here is my list". Due to the fact that each one varies quite a bit from the previous, I think you should post your most recent list before anyone can really help you decide what to cut.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Fair enough. Here is my list...
24 Island
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Fact or Fiction
3 Powder Keg
3 Back to Basics
4 Propaganda
4 Vedalken Shackles
1 Morphling
1 Guile
I do see a decent bit of aggro in my meta which is why my build is so tuned against the aggro matchup.
I also play this deck in random multiplayer games where all sorts of crap happens.
So based on that, what do you think I should cut to make room for the playset of Curse of Chains?
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
-2 Vedalken Shackles
-2 Mana Leak
+4 Curse of Chains
That's assuming you absolutely want a playset of Curse, which may or may not be warranted. I'm of the mind that a total redesigning of the deck structure is going to be necessary to use Curse of Chains effectively, but I could be wrong about that.
Anyway, in your list 4 Vedalken Shackles is way too many as it is, so losing a pair for more effecient creature control isn't going to be particularly harmful, and Mana Leak is awful in general and is easily the weakest card in your list as a whole, hence why I suggest cutting it.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Forgive me if this has come up, but I searched the thread and I didn't find it anywhere.
The use of Meloku in the MUC list that recently won Hadley got me thinking, how is Oona as a finisher once Shadowmoor is legal? I mean, it is slightly more expensive, but I think the benefits outweigh that in this case. She's an alternate win condition (milling, which is incidentally immune to Blessing) that makes tons of tokens, doesn't bounce your lands, and incidentally is a 5/5 flying beater all on her own. Also, she can't be Shriekmawed (or, perhaps more relevantly, Ghastly Demised), being half black. The only thing I can see that might be an issue is that the number of tokens you get is dependent on how well you can guess colors, but I don't think that will be an issue all that much.
So what do people think? It seems to me like Oona can beat like Morphling, and control like Meloku, and overall makes one hell of a neat finisher.
Re: [Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pinder
...being half black
I believe the PC term is "halfrican."
