What about T.T.T. ("trying then talking")?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Cheese 2
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What about T.T.T. ("trying then talking")?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Cheese 2
I have a question for this would a kill that was more similar to the current thoughts in the vintage threads be good?
Is it silly for them to go for rector bargain?
The reason i ask is that almost assuredly a pile after hulk that does a similar thing: Rector, Accursed Centaur or Carrion Feeder, Children of Korliss. With rector into Lich for card drawing of 15-20 and probably another children of korliss, just thinking it was possible, and then the frame could be closer to the T1 version. Again not saying this is better just a thought.
What about the following cards?
1. [c]Show and Tell[/c] (you'll need more sacrifice effects other than [c]Carrion Feeder[/c] and [c]Cabal Therapy[/c] with this, though a Hulk on board should be broken against these no-clock hate decks.)
2. [c]Gustha's Scepter[/c] for the Sideboard against discard.
Doing a lot of techy things and drawing a lot of cool cards isn't really as good as winning the game, ya know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morim_Brightsmoke
Card tags don't work on the Source.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
Show and Tell is monstrously slow and leaves you open to Swords unless you have the means of sacrificing right there. Besides, the card is symmetrical, so if you drop Hulk with it they could easily drop Meddling Mage naming Cabal Therapy.
The Scepter seems slow, but I have not tested it so I cannot really judge it. It may work.
Mr. Nipples -
I'm just starting to try out this deck and loaded it up in apprentice. Out of my first 10 games I never saw a Hulk. Do you just mulligan till you see one? And, the first time I actually get hulk/flash the kiki is in hand...
Congrats on the win!
Quote:
Originally Posted by allaanon
you can win easily even with kiki AND Karmic guide in the hand. It works like this:
get Body Snatcher, Carrion Feeder, Bodyguard
lets BS' come into play ability resolve discarding Karmic guide. Sac BS to feeder and return karmic guide to play from the gy getting hulk. Sac hulk to get BS #2 discarding kiki to his come into play ability. Sac BS #2 to reanimate kiki and win. It is the same thing but requires 1-2 two more steps depending on if you have one or both in hand. The only card you absolutely have to have in the deck is Carrion Feeder.
That's wrong, you can still play Carrion Feeder around StP with him in your hand. Just play Flash-Hulk, go get Karmic Guide + Benevolent Bodyguard, and play the Carrion Feeder. It just makes the combo cost :1::u::b: instead of :1::u:.
Body Snatcher is pretty much busted in half in the deck, it gives you outs in so many different situations. It even lets you combo off without the Flash, theoretically. Or if there's a Hulk in your yard, you can Flash it to reanimate the Hulk.
I was the other person playing Hulk Flash in the Top 8 of GPT Richmond.
My list:
//maindeck
4x Brainstorm
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Flash
4x Protean Hulk
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Phyrexian Marauder
3x Shifting Wall
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
1x Chain of Vapor
4x Lotus Petal
2x Chrome Mox
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
4x Underground Sea
2x Island
//sideboard
4x Duress
4x Disrupt
3x Stifle
1x Massacre
1x Echoing Truth
1x Wipe Away
1x Rushing River
I didn't have the cards for the Kiki/Karmic Guide kill, and I like winning at instant speed, anyway, so I ran with this build. It's consistent and it's stupid. Here's a brief report:
Round 1: George Whittaker with UGw ********
Game 1: We exchanged friendly banter before the match, during which I found out he brought Gro. I convinced him that I am, as well, and he believed me even after I opened with an Underground Sea. My early game plays consisted of Brainstorms and fetchlands, so he didn't figure out what I was actually playing until I played a Mystical (for Flash) at the end of his third or fourth turn, untapped, and went off with double Force protection.
Game 2: My first play of consequence was a Lim-Dul's Vault at the end of his third turn. I looked at a couple of stacks before settling on this one:
Force
Hulk
Flash
Lim-Dul's Vault
(blank)
At the time, my hand included a Flash, an Echoing Truth, and a Duress, but I only had two lands. So, I untapped, drew, and played Duress, snagging a Stifle and leaving George with Disrupt, Mental Note, Werebear, and lands. He drew, and passed the turn, so I drew and attempted the Flash during his upkeep. I Forced his Disrupt, but he showed me another Stifle, which he had just topdecked. There went my Hulk. He played a tresholded Werebear, and passed.
I drew a useless Flash, and passed the turn. He attacked me down to 13, and played a Mystic Enforcer.
I drew the Vault, and passed. He attacked me down to 3, and passed back. I Vaulted at his eot, saw a Hulk in the top 5, and kept them.
I untapped, drew the Hulk, and played Flash. George played Mental Note, and scooped.
Round 2: Dominic (Happy Gilmore) with Hulk Flash.
Game 1: On the play, I kept an opening hand with Force, Brainstorm, Mystical, and Hulk, but with only a Lotus Petal for mana. I lead with Petal into Brainstorm, and found another Lotus Petal instead of a land. I used that Petal to play Mystical (what a shitty shuffle effect). I thought about not finding anything, but decided to go ahead and put a Flash on top.
Dominic tried to Flash me at some point, but he couldn't get past my Force of Will.
It wasn't until turn four that I made a land drop, and turn six that I made another, but those two lands were enough to play Flash and win the game.
Game 2: Dominic's draw was better this game, and I think he just outraced me (with counter backup).
Game 3: Dominic began this game, on the draw, with two Leylines of the Void and a Gemstone Caverns in play. That was a little intimidating, but it did leave him with only three cards in hand, so I Disrupted his eot Brainstorm.
Apparently, he needed that Brainstorm, because I was able to put together the combo, Mystical for the Echoing Truth, and go off without much trouble.
Round 3: Dan (nitewolf9) with Red Death
Game 1: He won the roll, and opened up with a Cabal Therapy . Unfortunately for him, my hand was full of tutors, and not Flashes (which he named).
At some point, Dan played a Duress, and I responded with a Lim-Dul's Vault, stacking both Hulk and Flash on top of my deck. His Duress actually whiffed, but I had a Hulk in hand, so he had to sacrifice his creature to Therapy it. Over the next two turns, I drew the combo and won.
Game 2: Dan opened with another Therapy on Flash this game, missing again. This time, my hand had multiple Disrupts and a Daze, as well as a Lim-Dul's Vault. His second-turn Flesh Reaver resolved, and I played Vault off of a Lotus Petal. I missed my second land drop, and passed.
Dan played a Cabal Therapy on his third turn, which I Forced. I think he flashed it back, and whiffed (named Brainstorm?).
On my turn, I drew the Flash to go with the Hulk I had from the turn before. I then tapped my Underground Sea for U, played a Shifting Wall for 0, and Dazed it, returning the Sea to my hand. I re-played the Sea, tapped it for another U, played Flash and won.
Round 4: Paul Lynch with UGw(r?) Threshold
We drew because we were at the top of the standings.
Round 5: David Gearhart (Deep6er) with Diddly DZL
We drew because David was absolutely terrified of playing against Hulk Flash.
Top 8: Jon (Mr. Nipples) with Hulk Flash
Game 1: I won the die roll, and opened up with the best hand I had all day. It was:
Hulk
Flash
Force of Will
Mystical Tutor
land
land
irrelevant blue card
My plan was to Mystical for Daze at the end of his first turn, and go off on turn two with double counterspell backup. I played a land and passed.
Jon played a land, a Lotus Petal, and a Flash. I Forced. He Forced back, and showed me the Hulk. I guess his hand was even better.
Game 2: I kept a questionable hand, which was questionable because it didn't win the game by turn two. I did try to go off before he did, but he stopped me, and I drew blanks while he assembled his own combo. He won from there.
This deck is fairly absurd, and there isn't a very good reason to play anything else right now. Those who disagree should feel welcome to come to the GP, where the Flash players will happily prove them wrong.
Like GodzillA said, we should all just make the best of it, and enjoy playing a broken deck for awhile. Flash will be banned on June 1st, and then we can get back to playing Legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
Nice format.
Is anyone else finding the name "Hulk-Flash" morbidly appropriate, since this is pretty much simultaneously the fastest and most powerful deck... ever?
Eerily so. Every time I've played recently, you either seem to play it or lose to it. On any turn before 4. It's rediculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Ok, so I'm the fellow that won the Richmond GPT and I've finally gotten around to writing my tournament report. I already posted my decklist earlier in this thread so I'll get right down to the report:
Round 1: Dan (nitewolf9) with Red Death
Game 1: I keep a hand with multiple Flashes and Hulks, but Dan has double Cabal Therapy both of which got flashed back. Not much you can do about that.
Game 2: I board in a bunch of discard, but don't need it because I am able to combo out early on.
Game 3: I have to mull down to five and keep a questionable hand for fear of mulling to four. I'm able to stall for a bit with my discard and I eventually find a flash, but I can't find Protean Hulk in time to stop the Negator beats. After the game I look at the top cards of my library and see a Protean Hulk two or three cards down. Very close game.
Round 2: I get the Bye.
Round 3: Kenny with Hulk Flash
Game 1: We both get stuck on one land and it's draw go for something like the first six or seven turns. I eventually draw my second land and by that time my hand is capable of going off with Force back up, so it does.
Game 2: I board in discard again along with Disrupt. I mull to six and keep a hand with Underground Sea, Mystical Tutor, Protean Hulk, and triple Duress. I Duress a couple of times hitting a Flash and a Stifle, Mystical for Flash, and then go off without any opposition.
Round 4: Someone with Iggy Pop
Game 1: He starts out with a Leyline of the Void in play and I nearly crap my pants! Fortunately the round hadn't started yet and we were told to shuffle up and redraw. I keep a hand with a second turn win, but I lose anyway because he was on the play and had the second turn win as well.
Game 2: I board in discard and Disrupts again, but don't need them because this deck is retardedly fast.
Game 3: He mulls down to four or five and I throw a couple discard spells at him to make matters worse. I had ample time to build my hand with cantrips and tutors and I win easily.
Round 5: Daryn Felton with Solidarity
We're both guaranteed to make top 8 with a draw so we ID and just chill for a while.
Top 8:
Quarterfinals: Alix Hatfield (Obfuscate Freely) with Hulk Flash
Game 1: My opening hand contains land, Lotus Petal, Flash, Protean Hulk, Force of Will, blue card, and something else. He plays a land and says go. I take my turn and win with Force back up. What a fucking retarded deck!
Game 2: He plays a Mystical Tutor for Flash early on. I Brainstorm and then cast a Duress which he responds to with a Lim-Duls Vault. My Duress resolves and I hit the Flash that he wished for earlier. A couple turns go by and Alix attempts to go off. I Daze his Flash, he Forces, and I Force back. Alix is left with almost no cards in hand and I have plenty of time to find my combo and win.
Semifinals: Daryn Felton with Solidarity
Game 1: Daryn looks at his hand, sighs, and says "fuck it, I'll keep it." He misses his second land drop and I'm like "Oh word? Flash?" and he scoops it up.
Game 2: My first turn play is a Cabal Therapy which nabs two Force of Will. I procede to rape the rest of his hand with my discard package for the next few turns. It's draw go for a while and at some point I attempt to cast a Duress. He casts a Reset in response and we get into a mini-counter war which ends with him casting a Brain Freeze for four copies. This left him with zero cards in hand. I eventually cast Flash, he Forces, and I respond with another Flash. He Remands his own force which I let resolve despite having counters in hand. He draws for Remand and then scoops for lack of an answer to double Flash on the stack.
Finals: Josh with CRET Belcher
Game 1: He's on the play and goes all in with a Burning Wish which I Force. From there I just cantrip into my combo and win.
Game 2: He starts the game with a Leyline of the Void in play, but he doesn't have a win condition. This games takes forever and this is partly because my opponent took a while to make his plays. I believe at one point he took like 5 minutes to decide what he was going to imprint on a Chrome Mox. But yea, it's draw go for a while and I eventually draw both Echoing Truth and my combo, but my only mana is a land and a Lotus Petal so I can't play both and I can't play the Impulse I have in my hand because I need it to pitch to Force in case he tries to go off. I eventually find another blue card and play Impulse at the end of his turn which finds me the land I needed. I take my turn, play my land, pass, and wait while he thinks about going off. While I'm waiting for him to make his move (which takes a while) I come to the conclusion that there is no possible scenario in which I lose the game. I have the Force for Belcher and Burning Wish and I just don't care about Empty the Warrens. He goes for Warrens, I bounce his Leyline EOT, and go off on my main phase.
So, this deck wasn't optimal and I had to make a few emergency additions, but it doesn't matter because this deck is absolutely broken. I was able to race or disrupt almost every other relevent combo deck in the format and I almost pulled out a close match against a deck filled with hate. Also, the sideboard disruption was huge for me all day and won me several games. This deck will definately show up at Columbus and I have no doubt in my mind that it will place in the top 8. Also, for anyone who wants to know, the changes I would've made to the deck are as follows: -3 Merchant Scroll +3 Lim-Duls Vault -2 Serum Visions +2 Mystical Tutor and in the sideboard -1 Chain of Vapor +1 Echoing Truth -2 Pithing Needle +2 Massacre.
Mini-Slops and Props
Props:
The Hatfields for putting us up for two nights
Everyone who lent me cards
Jesse Krieger, my tender Unicorn pal :wink: .
Slops:
Calosso. What are you a gay?
We have almost 40 pages about the most broken Legacy deck ever, and you want to turn it into a MishMash thread? Enough with the crappy name debate.
Does E. Plague (if anyone can get to 3 mana) on Zombies hurt the Kiki-Jiki version, that makes it so you can't sac stuff to Carrion Feeder and if I'm correct this is needed to combo out. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
You're correct. Plague-ing out the Carrion Feeder would stop it cold. BY the time you got priority to sacrifice something to the Feeder, state-based effects would have said Feeder in the graveyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
Other neat cards which stop this version include Cursed Totem and Suppression Field, both of which are droppable on turn one in the right deck.
You know I just thought of something funny:
You're either with Hulk Flash...or against it. That's the field of Legacy now. Does't matter what you play or how good you think your deck is...because this deck will kick your ass. As soon as you pick up that old, blue garbage rare from Mirage...you immediately put your opponent on the defensive. I never thought I'd see the day that Mirage held the key to the Magic Universe. Even Vintage isn't safe. I think I'm going to get sick.
I have a stash of about ten Flashes at my house (Asian, too). But I also have a couple shotguns for the vultures.
The worst part is that even though Mirage had some of the best artwork in the history of the game, the by-far best card from it manages to make a festering turd look like a work of art.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Legend
-Slay
Mirage is my favorite set of all friggin' time. The art, in all its' tropical jungle goodness (with Black people)! I thought the story was good too, it wasn't so out-of-this-world fantastic (like the Weatherlight Saga). Which particular card are you referring to? Flash?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slay
Yeah. The art on Flash fucking sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by URABAHN
But it continues the tradition of having combo decks based around blue instants whose art has no fucking relevance at all to the card's ability. Seriously, an Owl Scepter? Weird pink wrinkly guy? WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slay