I favor the 2 RiP, 2 S. Ex. split. Don't underestimate the value of knowing your opponent's hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by vennie
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I favor the 2 RiP, 2 S. Ex. split. Don't underestimate the value of knowing your opponent's hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by vennie
Right now I lack yard hate in my board. May just play 3x RIP. its just so damn good. Is it SB material for RUG?
Yeah, i'm aware. It's part of my board plan for them. Surgical just also has value in different kinds of match-ups, like High Tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by vennie
Like Scavenging ooze it can blank 2/3 of RUG's creatures. On the other hand it also blanks your Snapcaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
So, here's my take on Esper Stoneblade:
Creatures: 13
4 SFM
4 Snap
3 Bob
2 Clique
Artifacts: 4
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 EE
Planeswalkers: 3
3 JTMS
Instants: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords
3 FoW
1 Counterspell
Sorceries: 6
2 IoK
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
Land: 22
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruin
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Wasteland
1 Scrubland
My thoughts on the initial board were:
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Perish
2 Spell Pierce
1 FoW
2 Flusterstorm
3 RIP
1 PTE
2 D-Sphere
What you guys think?
Nice list there but I am still hesitant on playing Bob with quite a few high casting cost cards in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapless Researcher
On a sidenote: Does this deck need card filtering options like sensei's divining top or ponder? Recently the lists have been cutting ponder altogether but some still play a single top in the mainboard.
Bob is fine with all the Brainstorm effects in the deck. They basically turn your storms into Recalls if you have 0cmc cards in hand.
Recently started playing this again... I've been on and off about it since mystic was standard legal. Right now Im tired of Jace (even though he's better than all) so I cut him. Instead I enhanced the early/midgame (more aggressive curve, better wastelands etc). What do you think about it?
CREATURES (12)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Dark Confidant
SORCERIES (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
INSTANTS (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Spell Pierce
ARTIFACTS (2)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
LANDS (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Meddling Mage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Perish
I think you should definitely be running V Cliques.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan
You have too many lands for this list. With 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder and a lower curve, you could easily cut to 20 (and still play 4 Wasteland). You'll get flooded often. I'd trade 2 lands for 2 Vendilion Clique or something as good as that Fae.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan
@thread, this is my latest list, and I've been tinkering with Trinket Mage, and it's been okay.
Lands [23]
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures [11]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Trinket Mage
Spells [21]
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Lingering Souls
1 Counterspell
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Artifacts [5]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard [15]
3 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Force of Will
Looks a lot of a toolbox list, but it works fine. Mishra's Factory have been pulling their weight pretty hard against almost anything. They carry equipment like a boss. Nihil Spellbomb is fine, but maybe Tormod's Crypt is better in that slot.
Any comments or criticism?
I love a good Trinket Mage toolbox. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
I was playing him, but recently switched to squeeze in Bobs (not sure how that'll go, I'll be testing them tonight lol). I personally like Tormod's Crypt over Nihil Spellbomb in lists that run Trinket Mage, just because once you have 3 lands you can go ahead and nuke their graveyard without needing that extra 1 mana to play Spellbomb.
I tested Bob's and i'm just not sure they belong here yet. I decided to cut the number down to a couple. Having multiple bobs out was really living on the edge with five 5 CMC cards floating in the deck.
You should never play multiple Bobs unless you have a brainstorm loop. Having a board presence is only beneficial when you have a an aggro role in a matchup. Playing multiple Bobs without the brainstorm is setting up for disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo
As an example, if you have Snap/Brainstorm going, then Bob in multiples is ok, but the dream is having 2 Bobs with Jace. You can use the 0 ability to put 0cmc cards on top, and then confidant into them to optimize card advantage. The real trick is leaving a fetch on top if both cards are lands, so you can shuffle the second away in the event that your Bobs die. You can also risk it if you have a dependable source of life gain ie Jitte or Batterskull.
It adds another layer of decision making to the game, but it can be stellar if navigated properly.
This turns the deck into a pseudo vintage Snap/Jace control deck.
Def pseudo Vintage snap bob bc no Tinker Blightsteel, Time Vault or tutors moxen time walk recall lotus. Ah Vintage Madness!!!
We can't have all the toys. This is Legacy after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblaze4lif
We can't have all the toys. This is Legacy after all. This is the core engine of that build though, so it can't be all bad. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblaze4lif
Im liking that Trinket Mage toolbox. Ive been playing with 2x Explosives and 1 Relic of Prog. Maybe you are right about just playing Crypt though. I Do love search relic up and nuking both yards to negate Goyfs and Deathrite Shaman altogether though...
If you're in Esper run Nihil Spellbomb. It's a repeatable cantrip and hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Hey guys, quick questions about Esperstone Blade. I'm going to a tournament this Sunday and I'm still workin on the optimal build in order to win. Here is my current decklist, please take not of 2 things:
-I do not own more than 1 JtMS
-I do not own EE
-I do not own more than 1 Vendilion Clique
Is it still possible to run an Esper deck? Should I switch to something else, like BW? Would I/do I have chances?
Thank you!
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Island
11 Swamp
2 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Vindicate
SB: 3 Lingering Souls
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDX
If you dont have Jaces you would do better with tempo esper version (lingering souls, delvers and dazes). http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...9&iddeck=63964
What does IE stand for? Only thing I can think of looking thru your list is inquisition of kozilek but thats IoK for short.. Cabal Therapies seem very weak in your list.
Engineered Explosives, my bad. Was EE.
As I heard, Tempo Esper is a plain bad deck. What can you say about it?
"Optimal" is a strong word. If there was an optimal build, everyone would play it; but really it depends on your meta and, of course, the cards you have available.
Without the addtional Jaces, I think your best bet is to look at what Joe Bernal played at one of the SCG Opens earlier this year: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=998894
It's more or less Deadguy Ale with a blue splash. How it will perform in today's meta is different matter. Bobs can be Terminused (unlike Jace), and in my experience Miracles can be pretty resilient against Liliana if they have a Top going (I've survived through Liliana's ultimate a few times now thanks to Jace and/or Top).
Anyway, you don't need Mindbreak Trap since you play blue. If it's combo you're after, Flusterstorm is probably better for that.
Played UWr tonight with shocks and a trinket mage package. Beat Goblins and mono white stoneforge death and taxes. Lost to Junk Doran (Deathrite Shaman is really good) and Modern Pod combo :( drew no counterspells for pods... Anyway, the deck felt great. Jace Archotect of thought in place for my 3rd JTMS that is in the mail was great. Drew some cards and played a Mind Sculptor and it pitches to force! To be fair he doesnt seem awful vs goblins! Thalia was a tad annoying. Also I may run a path to exile, as I found myself wanting a T1 swords effect almost every game.
Thank you for the tips, I'll look at it. However how is Flusterstorm better than Mindbreak Trap when it comes to combo?Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
It is actually castable since it is one mana, and it is actually a very good way to win a counter war vs other control decks. Its more versatile
I am a little inclined to disagree. Flusterstorm is a proactive spell, meant to push through your own threats. I can see it vs ANT maybe, but apart from that it'd be better to just load up on things like Spell Pierce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Actually Flusterstorm is better as a defensive counterspell because when you are trying to push a combo piece and have Flusterstorm to push it through with, your opponent can just cast a second counter targetting the original spell. When you are on the defense and cast Flusterstorm with X storm, your opponent can counter just 1 of them with FoW and needs to pay for the rest of the copies if he wants to push through.
What do you guys , think about baleful strix ?
It needs a few changes in the manabase to make it works. But I think it is a good card in this deck because it works well with umezawa's jitte and sword of feast and famine, it protects Jace and makes card adventage.
The fact that it cycles , make you hit your sideboard cards and brainstorm more often.
It also handles nimble mangooze wich can be a real problem somethimes, against tempo and aggro decks it is a very good at doing what you are trying to do.
At worst against combo decks , you can allways pitch them to force of will (since you rarely want to pitch brainstom,vendillion,...)
It is also sometimes good with academy ruins against tempo and aggro. Baleful strix handles tarmo,cliques,lackey,delver, so you can save your STP for ooze,dark confidant,deathrite shaman,goblin pildriver,...
This is the list , I am testing now.
4 stoneforge mystic
3 baleful strix
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
4 StP
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
1 jitte
1 sword of feast and famine
1 batterskull
3 jace
2 inquisition
2 thoughseize
1 spell pierce
1 ponder
1 EE
23lands
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
4 tundra
4 underground sea
1 riptide lab
1 academy ruins
1 island
1 plains
1 karakas
1 scalding tarn
1 marsh flats
Sb:
3 rest in peace ( dredge,RUG,reanimator,team america(tarmo,shaman,snap ) side out snapcaster
1 pithing needle ( uw miracles(top) goblin(waste-vial) merfolk(vial-mutavault) + a lot of random stuff
2 fulsterstorm (combo)
2 divine verdict ( RUG,gob,maverik,merfolk,...
3 engineered plague ( gob,elves, random Bitterblosom+dark confidant decks.,infect,...
1 vendillion clique (combo,control
1 spell pierce (combo , control
1 thoughtseize ( combo , control
1 detention sphere ( omnitell , control,...
As you can see , there are a lot of cards against control and combo. First of all because I have a lot to side out(stp,strix,sometimes EE,jitte) and also because I did cut some spell pierce from the maindeck (for strix).
I chose 3 rest in peace for the hate-grave slots even if it is not great with snapcaster mages. It is also usually great to play few differants kind of hate so it is more difficult to play around.(cabal therapy,nature'claim,...
But I think rest in peace is very good because it is also a great card against RUG unlike some other grav-hate.
It shuts down tarmo , mangooze , also somtimes sideboards cards: life from the loam or ancient grudge'flashback.
Most of the time you side in rest in peace you want to side out snapcaster mage anyway.
Flusterstorm is obv great against decks like show n tell or high tide , also reanimator,..but it isnt so great against control decks because it doesnt counter vendillion clique,jace,top and counterbalance. Thats why I only play 2.
Has anyone played Venser, Shaper Savant in their 75? I've seen it in some sideboards, and while I can see how it can be generally useful, I'm not sure which matchups you'd want to bring him in. Any ideas?
Here's my current 75, which has been performing well:
ESPER STONEBLADE:
CREATURES: [11]
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
INSTANTS [15]
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
PLANESWALKERS [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
ARTIFACTS [4]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
SORCERIES [4]
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
LAND [23]
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
SIDEBOARD:
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Lingering Souls
SB: 1 Vindicate
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
I was running 2 Inquisition of Kozilek in the board, but I found that a majority of the time I was putting them in was to fight red aggro strategies, so I typically will side out 2 Thoughtseize, and add in 1 Spell Pierce and 1 IoK.
I also run a single Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the side, in place of the 3rd Lingering Souls we typically see. I'm not completely sold, but it does carry a fair amount of weight in the mirror. It's also nice very mid-range decks like Maverick, allowing me to fly over their defenses to snag Jitte counters.
The 1 of Oblivion Ring is really just Vindicate effect #2. Decent versus a lot of decks, never bummed to see one, performs well enough.
Any thoughts of suggestions? I'm going to a large triple power event in the coming weeks (Team games, and I'm on legacy), and I expect a pretty wideopen field. I've been trying to keep the deck flexible for a wide variety of decks, but still as consistent as possible. Any thoughts or feedback are much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDX
I would drop the liliana for Lingering souls. Add another Stoneforge and possibly 2 Jitte total
I would also drop cabal for inquisition of Kozilek. 4 discard total so 2 and 2 between thoughtseize
I'm not sure strix is quite good enough for this deck. I tested with it a bit back, but found that it was just inferior to supreme verdict in a lot of cases. Versus maverick, verdict is just a beating, while strix usually holds them back until they find a swords or they just use the swords stuck in their hand. Versus Rug, it makes forked bolt even better (2 for 1 vs 2x strix or 1x strix/clique). In the control matchups, the 1 power was just a bit too slow to be a real clock, while verdict helps trump angel tokens (if you can survive 1 hit).
Your testing may prove different though, so if you have any different results by all means post them. I really like strix and want it to work lol.
Here's my current SB for UWr. Pretty much a stock list Maindeck. I do have only 3 Snapcasters, and 1 Detention Sphere in its place maindeck.. Otherwise its pretty stock.
2 Spell Snare
3 Red Blast
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path To Exile
2 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Rest in Piece
1 Sulfur Elemental
Kind of all over the place I know... My current Meta has a lot of Red decks, and a good amount of stoneforge style decks. Is Spell Snare worth the slots?
I think Magus of the Moon hurt you more than other decks. Aside from Lands.dec, what do you want to bring this in against? Ditto with Sulfur Elemental, it just hurts your SFM and kills off your Lingering Souls (or Timely Reinforcements for that matter) if you run any (though I could see an argument for bring it in against opposing Lingering Souls).Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I'm not convinced that Rest in Peace is right if you run Snapcasters. I would rather see Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus if you are UWr. As I splash black, I take advantage of Nihil Spellbomb, which is an absolute beating against Dredge in conjunction with Academy Ruins.
Spell Snare is narrow; ran it as a 2 of in the side for a long time, didn't bring it in all that often. It's not terrible though, just not worth it in my meta. If you face hordes of Goyfs and Bobs, it's worth having.
REB I'd rather have Spell Pierce of BEB. I find Blade Control has problems with red based aggro strategies, and BEB a Sulfuric Vortex or a Price of Progress has saved my life many times. That being said, it doesn't remove Delver. Your call really, maybe a 2/1 split?
Timely Reinforcements seems pretty decent. I like that it gives another body to hold a Jitte, and slows down the aggro gameplan.
I'm pretty happy with Supreme Verdict on a whole as well. I think you want 2 forms of mass removal though, so maybe up it to a 2 of.
What decklist are you running now?
You're definitely going to want to shave that down to a 15 card sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Fair. I Realized I took out the Supreme Verdict for standard, then when I put it back in I didnt cut a card lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
To whoever posted abou tneeding more mass removal, I already run 2x Verdict Main and 2x EE
Also I don't play black so no Lingering SOuls for me to kill off with my own sulfur guy. Wouldn't be a good thing to make my stoneforge into a 2/1? My Meta has a good amount of Thalia's running around. Otherwise here is my current list:
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Jace TMS
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage
1 Detention Sphere
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Mishra's Factory
SB:
3 Red Blast (Show and Tell based decks)
2 Spell Snare (Seems like a decent catch all. Haven't tested)
2 Disenchant (There are enough targets being played to warrant this)
1 Path to Exile (Extra Spot removal for pesky Lackeys, Moms, Deathrites, other scary 1 drops)
2 Timely Reinforcements (Red decks, Goblins, UR Delver)
2 Magus of the Moon (12 Post, Greedy Junk based mana bases, Sol Land based decks, RUG)
2 RIP (RUG, Dredge, Reanimator)
1 Sulfur Elemental (Thalia, Lingering Souls, MoMs)
I think I will probably go Tormods Crypt over Relic in the MB. Sometimes you need that hate the turn you fetch it off of mage. Detention Sphere seems a bit clunky, not sure what to replace it with though. When I get V Cliques, I'll probably just drop the trinket mages for 2x Clique.
I still think you want some number of Elspeth in the main. Though, it's definitely a "nombo" with Sulfur Elemental :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Is Rest in Peace really necessary though? Maybe I'm just in love with Academy Ruins, but recurring either Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb (which gives you the draw too) versus Dredge, along with "infinite" Engineered Explosives, is amazing. I'm not convinced it's right, but to each his own.
The Magus of the Moon is more justifiable with so many basics. Why not just run Blood Moon though? It doesn't die to creature removal, though do you keep it Magus so you can occasionally kill it? If you are worried about RUG and Junk, I think Magus is going to be too slow to stop their game plan.
The Sulfur Elemental seems interesting, and certainly is strong versus Maverick/D+T/LS. If it does work out well, I think you'll want to up it to atleast a 2 of to ensure you hit it more often.
The deck is getting there! Slowly but surely :D Now to attack the manabase :P
Haha it's getting there! I havent really needed more than 2 EE any game yet so I don't see the need for Academy Ruins sadly. And I like RIP because of it's flexibility, and when I am bringing it in, I am making sure that it is hurting my opponent much more than it is hurting me. The one reason I have debated Academy Ruins is because sometimes my batterskull/Jitte dies and Im like :/ Maybe Ill try it out in place of what? Maybe a Hallowed Fountain?Quote:
Originally Posted by mini1337s
I like your list a lot. I was playing something very similar a few months ago and it ran very well. Personally, I would cut the Magus in the sideboard, as well as the Snares. Your maindeck against RUG is very well off and Junk is not a bad match-up. I would add 2 Oblivion Rings, 1 Humility, and 1 more Sulfur Elemental (he's insane). How have the Timely's been? I never found them necessary because you play Betterskull, which just beats all those decks you listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Timelys so far have been alright. It does help to get the bodies out there to pick up a Jitte. To be honest I havent used it much. I tested it against UR delver and I probably don't NEED it. My Meta has a good amount of goblins in it, so I think it would be solid to chump or something. What is a good way to beat Goblins? (Other than Jitte) I guess Humility is pretty solid vs them?Quote:
Originally Posted by learntolove6
Edit: How about like 2-3 Geist of Saint Traft in the board for the Miracle MU? to be honest the mirror and miracles I havent tested too much and I am severely worried about this MU.