[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

@Acclimation: AWESOME REPORT! Very helpful. Thank you! You did great. Those games where we draw an opening hand of awesomeness, and then don't see land for 20 cards, suck.

Dave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidHernandez

@Acclimation: AWESOME REPORT! Very helpful. Thank you! You did great. Those games where we draw an opening hand of awesomeness, and then don't see land for 20 cards, suck.

Dave

---

Thank you!

I have long since accepted that those games happen, and they don't stop me from playing the deck.

Because when you run hot with this deck, it's amazing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

Thank you!

I have long since accepted that those games happen, and they don't stop me from playing the deck.

Because when you run hot with this deck, it's amazing.

---

I completely agree. Just today I was thinking about a game I had where I mulled to 4 and never saw a mana source. Then drew for several turns and still never saw a mana source of any kind. I had seen 25 cards and not a single mana source. As you say, those games happen.

Then the next game you win on turn 1. #awesomeness

LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alastair

4 Painter
4 Grindstone
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Chains of Vapour
1 Echoing Truth
1 Grafdiggers

---

Thinking of trying this, since it looks fun. In my metagame there are a LOT of UW(R) decks, who all play several Rest in Peace in their sideboards. I am actually considering to running a single Helm of Obedience in the sideboard for when they drop Rest in Peace.

Great showing Logan - sucks that the variance gods weren't entirely on your side.

Thanks for the report. It sucks when this list mana screws you.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

The deck giveth the deck taketh.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

The deck giveth the deck taketh.

---

"So say we all!"

d.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

The deck giveth the deck taketh.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

---

Blessed be the name of The Lords Grislbrand and Emrakul.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

Okay, now for the real stuff. Legacy Open, 9 rounds of Swiss. This time, I have my notes in front of me, so it should be somewhat more detailed.

Same list, same sideboard plan.

Round 1: Jund 2-0

Jund is one of my favorite match-ups with this deck. They rarely interact on the stack, rely too much on Deathrite Shaman to clear the graveyard, and I've played against it more than any other match-up.

Game 1 He mulligans and I thoughtseize him, seeing a hand of land, land, Abrupt Decayx2, Liliana, and Tarmogoyf. I nab the Goyf, and Therapy the Liliana on the next turn. I get him on the third turn when my Gitaxian Probe reveals more land and the same Decays.

Game 2: I get him on the third turn after he plays 2 Deathrite Shaman. Needle too good here.

As it turns out, it was this guy's first Legacy tournament. Was pretty cool though, and not even remotely butthurt.

Round 2: Ant 2-1

Continuing the trend of getting paired against my friends, I get paired up against my friend, Chris.

Game 1 I combo on t1, but am unable to draw into any Lotus Petal. I finish the job on t3.

Game 2 We ravage each other with discard, and end up playing land, go for 3 turns. He eventually topdecks an Infernal tutor and gets me (was at 12 due to aggressive Probing and Thoughtseizing).

Game 3 I have the t1 Entomb, t2 Shallow Grave, so I go for it. He Extirpates my Griselbrand in response to the Grave. I have Emrakul in hand, and proceed to draw lands and brick on cantrips. He eventually attempts to combo from 14 life, and on his Infernal Tutor, realizes that he boarded out Ad Nauseum for Telemerin Performance and doesn't have the mana to combo with Past in Flames. He goes for Performance, mills most of my library and gets Children of Korlis. 3 Turns go by before I top deck my last Shallow Grave and Discard to pitch Emrakul from my hand and win. That was a game I should have lost, but got extremely lucky. Never give up until lethal is presented, folks.

Round 3: Maverick 1-2 (This guy placed top 16)

Having used up all my bullshit luck last round, this one goes poorly for me.

Game 1 I get game 1, but have to get him over the course of 2 turns. He GSZ for a Gaddock Teeg the turn before I go off, and I brick on my draw 7s- all I needed was a Lotus Petal to seal the deal. I get him next turn with Children of Korlis fueled draws.

Game 2: He gets out multiple bears, but Massacre takes care of them. The turn before I go off, he top decks a Maze of Ith, and between that and his Karakas, he gets me.

At this point, he asks me if I go to Opens often. I say yes, and he looks at the slip and goes "Oh shit, you're Logan Creen, I watched you stomp people on Twitch!" #egoboost

Game 3: I get out a Massacre, hit some good discard, Needle a Karakas, but ended up having a clock put on me with a Sword of Fire and Ice. He is tapped out and attempt to go off after he gets in one swing with the Sword. Unluckily for me, he drew Extraction off of the Sword and seals the deal.

Round 4: Burn 2-1

This guy also recognized me. As soon as we sat down, he asked "you still playing that reanimator list?" My ego is loving the recognition, but the loss of surprise is annoying me.

Game 1 I keep a somewhat risky hand with some discard after he mulls down to 6. I look at his hand and see Chain Lightning, Grim Lavamancer x2, Rift Bolt, and 2 Mountains. I end up getting a Griselbrand up, but my life total was too low to do anything, and I was unable to draw into anything to help me out.

For sideboarding, I took out -4 Probe, -1 LDV, and -1 Reanimate for +3 Silence and +3 Chain

I blind Therapy turn 2 naming Pyrostatic Pillar, and see that he has Ensnaring Bridge, a Lavamancer, and a Flame Rift, alongside some land. I combo from 14 life, getting him with Tendrils on my second main phase with a little help from Children of Korlis.

Game 3 He opens with a Grafdigger's Cage, and follows up with a Goblin Guide and a Rift Bolt. I Silence on his upkeep to prevent Rift Bolt from coming down. Next turn he plays another Guide and then I Chain the Cage on his End step. I combo off on the next turn, but brick on my draw to seal the deal, and pass with 8 life to his 12. He groans about being greedy and not playing the other Cage he had in hand over the Goblin Guide (I Therapied them on my second main phase). Crossing my fingers that he doesn't draw into a 4 damage spell, he draws into Sulferic Vortex- which throws a kink into my plans. Luckily, I kept Brainstorm, an Entomb, and Emrakul and had enough land to Brainstorm away Emrakul, Entomb, then Shallow Grave, winning with 1 life (I had to fetch). #toocloseforcomfort

Round 5: Miracles 2-0

If there was one match up I didn't want to play against, it was Miracles (RUG too, but I feel more confident in that).

Game 1 I Thoughtseize and see a hand of Top, Counterbalance x2, JTMS, Vendillion Clique, and lands. I nab the Top, and pass. Next turn, I follow up with a Therapy and nab Counterbalance. He ends up drawing nothing but land, and I Entomb at the end of his 3rd turn. He flashes Clique in on my draw step, and I Shallow Grave in response. Ended up winning that turn.

Game 2 I get my turn 1 Thoughtseize Misdirected; I pitch my Emrakul and get a shuffle. He Flusterstorms one of my Reanimation attempts, but over the course of 3 turns I reanimate Griselbrand and swing in.

This round, while not a free win, I felt like I won pretty easily. I kept him on the back foot all game and was able to win without much resistance. He brought in Flusterstorms, Humility, Pithing Needle, Karakas, Rest in Peace, and a Relic of Progenitus. A mountain of hate, and only saw 3 pieces (I thoughtseized RIP on my first turn).

Round 6: Sneak and Show 2-0

Game 1 I get in some discard, then get out Griselbrand on t4. He brainstorms, but found nothing. I reanimate Children twice, and attempt to Tendrils him when I can't get an Entomb for Emrakul. I didn't keep track, but I knew it was 10. He insisted that I only cast 9 spells, and that one of my Petals I cast the turn before. We argue back and forth (I forgot that he played a spell on my turn), and just swing in for game anyway.

Clearly this guy is a huge scumbag.

Game 2 though, my deck has my back. My opening 7 was land, ritual, entomb, shallow grave x2, thoughtseize, ponder. He plays a fetch and passes. Praying for a Lotus petal, I draw and get one. I thoughtseize and see land, ashen rider, petal, emmy, and bs x2. I take the Brainstorm. Play the Petal, rit, and entomb. He brainstorms, gets grumpy and lets me proceed. I draw 14 and get that Emrakul. I swing in, and he throws his hand into his graveyard and starts to scoop his lands and graveyard. I scoop up my land and hand, and he goes off saying that I should pick up my cards until he does, since some people would call a Judge. I have 2 friends watching our game (one standing over his shoulder game 2 due to tight space in the rows). He angrily makes a faint line on the slip, so I call a judge over to get him to actually sign it so we don't get called up to the Judge center later. He glares at me and I finish packing up and leave. Seriously, fuck that guy and his shitty attitude. As I walk away, my friends catch up and we start laughing. Apparently he drew a Grafdigger's Cage and a Spell Pierce off the brainstorm. That justice.

Round 7 Sneak and Show 2-1

Game 1 I keep a hand with Emrakul, Griselbrand, 3 fetches, and 2 Ponders. Risky, but my gut told me to go for it. I draw a Probe and see he's on Sneak and Show. I Cantrip and discard and keep him from comboing. He eventually goes for it and I put in Griselbrand. I draw and do Children things and get him with Tendrils.

Game 2 I Surgical his Misty Rainforest to get some info on his hand. As it turns out, he only had 1 Misty Rainforest in the deck, but a couple of counterspells in hand, as well as Sower of Temptation, Emrakul, and Griselbrand. Eventually, he attempts to Show and Tell when I have Griselbrand in hand. I consider dropping my land instead, in case he drops Sower. Decide to #YOLO and go for Griselbrand, figuring I had a 50/50 shot at him putting in not Sower. WRONG. I draw 7, but don't draw anything useful. End up dead to my own Griselbrand.

Game 3 I Surgical his Brainstorm after he mulligans and sees Tidespout Tyrant, a Petal, and a Show and Tell. I have Griselbrand in hand, as well as a Dark Ritual and a Shallow Grave. He shows and I tell, then he plays the Petal to bounce my Griselbrand. I draw 14 in response, then kill him on the next turn.

Round 8 Esper Deathblade 0-2 (This guy top 8'd)

And now it all goes downhill.

I win the roll and get this hand: Rit, Rit, Shallow Grave, Reanimate, Entomb, Entomb, Probe. Being the greedy fuck that I am, I keep it- I draw any IMS and I win. I Probe, see no counterspells and draw... Brainstorm! 5 turns later and I draw my first land. By then he had the counterspell to stop me, and lethal on board.

Game 2 I get another stacked opener that only needs an IMS to go off. I mull down to 6 and get yet another hand that needs an IMS to go off t1. Deck is taunting me. Mull to 5 and get 2 lands, Ponder, Dark Rit, and Brainstorm. Luckily he mulled to 5 as well. Neither one of us draw any business, so he just drops Snapcaster Mage into play. I spin my wheels cantripping while he gets another Snapcaster. I get an Entomb and Shallow Grave after I cast Lim-Dul's Vault, but he has the counterspell to stop my Shallow Grave. Snapcaster beatdown and Tar Pit get me the turn after.

Round 9 Team America 1-2

I was sitting at 34th at the beginning of this round, and my opponent was 41st, so we discuss drawing, but since there was no incentive for him to do so, we play it out for the hell of it. So far, my two losses were from people who were x-1 still, so I figure that I could maybe squeak into top 16 if I won.

Due to seeing two Daze from my Probe, I'm prevented from going off early, so I cantrip for lands and discard to slow him down. I resolve LDV and after 5 life find what I need. He flips a Delver with a third Daze after I get rid of one. With lethal on board next turn, I have the mana to fight through both Daze. I swing, and decide to draw 7 for yolo tendrils. I hit my land drop and play Children and draw more cards. I Shallow Grave Children and draw even more. I have 5 mana floating, 5 B from rituals and 2 blue available from Mox and my last Petal, and 5 cards left in my deck. I brain storm and don't hit tendrils. Cast LDV with 4 cards left. We're both laughing at this point, so I flip over my deck, and Tendrils was the bottom card. I put it on top and draw it with Probe. Tendrils for 36. Game was silly and left us with 15 min on the clock.

Game 2 He sticks a Cage and 2 Deathrite Shaman, and despite landing a Needle and Chain on Cage, I brick on my draws and die to 2 turns of Deathrite Shaman swings.

Game 3 we have 5 minutes left and try to play fast. I attempt to combo, but he has the Spell Pierce the first time. I stick a Griselbrand and swing after he taps out for Vclique, and brick on draws again. He lands a Tombstalker and gets me on a fast clock. I stall out with Children, but he ends up getting me on t5.

So, I ended up placing 51st, 6-3 record. I was stoked to be 6-1, but just got unlucky on my mulligans and draws. In general, I found that a lot of my bricks were due to not having a mana source to continue comboing. I almost want to make room for another Mox, Chrome or Diamond (probably Diamond), but I'm unsure what to cut. I'm rather fond of Probe, I feel that cutting a land might be right but could make our opening hands a bit worse, and our other slots have their uses. I'm thinking that I could cut the 3rd Thoughtseize for it and retain consistency.

Other things I noticed: I won more on t3 than usual, with multiple games in which I reanimated twice over two turns to win. I did use Children much more than I have in the past. The sideboarding choices were all correct. I chalk up my losses due to hitting the bad end of variance.

Would still play the deck as is in another tournament, very much confident in the list, but would like to play around with Mox Diamond. Unfortunately, I had to give back the 2 Underground Seas I was borrowing, so testing isn't going to happen on my end in the near future.

Props:
Getting mentioned indirectly in the top 8 profile for casting Lim-Dul's Vault
Getting a t1 win versus a scumbag
Placing in money
Getting recognized by multiple people
Winning a game that I shouldn't have won
2 Chainz being stuck in my head all day

Slops:
Playing against my friends during events
Bad opening hands/mulligans ruining my run at the end

---

Congrats on the strong finishes.

I tried Tinfins myself after playing lots of TES and ANT games for a little diversification :)
Can't settle on a list though.
I have the feeling that the decklists I tried suffered from some inconsitencies.

In your report you mentioned that you are playing your same list as always, using the same boarding plans, but I am unable to find it...scrolling back lots of pages.

The only thing I found is that you are playing 61/14 ;)

Is it possible to share your list?

Thanks in advance.

Regards Chris

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-05-03-13-1/

Currently in bed, so here's a quick link.

I talked about sideboards on page 70 or 71 IIRC. It was a long post, with another post nearby talking about various hate people bring in for us.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-05-03-13-1/

Currently in bed, so here's a quick link.

I talked about sideboards on page 70 or 71 IIRC. It was a long post, with another post nearby talking about various hate people bring in for us.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

---

Thanks for the fast reply. I will definitly give it a try :)

No problem! It's Koby's creation, and I have had lots of success with it.

Biggest problem I have comes from needing a petal to continue comboing, but it doesn't come up too often.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

No problem! It's Koby's creation, and I have had lots of success with it.

Biggest problem I have comes from needing a petal to continue comboing, but it doesn't come up too often.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

---

I tried to solve this with a second Chrome Mox instead of a dual. Not sure about it yet. Neither would have mattered in 40 goldfished games.

I seem to struggle with finding Entomb in those Games where I did not start with one. Tried a list with more Griselbrands and exchanged Ponder for Careful Study. Study was nice to get some fat into the grave, but in all other situations and especially in board games Ponder is superior by far...addionally...more Griselbrands on starting seven suck as well :D

What I am pretty sure on is that 4/3 protection suit fits me better than 4/2/1.

I am probably not mulliganing right with this deck. If I do not kill on turn 1 or 2 I am not satisfied ;)

But I will definitly give this list a try. Like the sideboard too. Started with Lelay's list from Stormboards with a transformational board.

Greetings Chris

I'd gauge the Turn 1 win percentage is around 20-30% of the time. Adding Turn 2 kills to that metric bumps it up to about 50-60%, if not more. I don't have exact numbers on this since I have not kept any statistics whatsoever. It's all based on experience.

My list is shown on my log (see signature), or this recent top finish. I recently pushed the Silence to the SB in a tournament anticipating lower amount of combo decks. It's the same 75 however.

I was going to post a detailed note about my Sunday tourney where I placed T4, but my browser ate the post before I finished it, so here's Version 2:

41 players @ Card Addiction Legacy
R1: Classic Reanimator (2-1)
R2: Quad Laser Dredge (2-1)
R3: Cheater Miracles [maindeck REB] (2-0)
R4: Esper Stoneblade [heavy counters] (0-2)
R5: Loam Depths (2-0)
R6: ANT (ID)
T8: Esper Stoneblade [different player] (2-0)
T4: ANT (0-2)

Won a Tropical Island. Woot!

I managed one Turn 1 kill, vs the Miracles player when he mulliganed to five. It contained no lands!
I hard cast Griselbrand once, also vs Miracles when he was Brainstorm locked without a 2nd Island.

It's hard to beat a Esper Stoneblade holding 2 Counterspell, 1 FoW, 1 Flusterstorm when your opponent has 5 lands in play to your 1.
Don't keep a hand that contains 2 Griselbrand and Emrakul unless it also has a Dark Ritual, discard, and Shallow Grave along with a land. You'll lose otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindlash

I tried to solve this with a second Chrome Mox instead of a dual. Not sure about it yet. Neither would have mattered in 40 goldfished games.

I seem to struggle with finding Entomb in those Games where I did not start with one. Tried a list with more Griselbrands and exchanged Ponder for Careful Study. Study was nice to get some fat into the grave, but in all other situations and especially in board games Ponder is superior by far...addionally...more Griselbrands on starting seven suck as well :D

What I am pretty sure on is that 4/3 protection suit fits me better than 4/2/1.

I am probably not mulliganing right with this deck. If I do not kill on turn 1 or 2 I am not satisfied ;)

But I will definitly give this list a try. Like the sideboard too. Started with Lelay's list from Stormboards with a transformational board.

Greetings Chris

---

Several of us have seen this kind of problem. If you're going to run a 61/14 list from previous posts, try 14 land, 1 Chrome Mox, and one Mox Diamond. It seems to work really well. The Diamond shows up right in the middle of combo-ing off, and gives you that one mana source you need to cast your Dark Rituals and win.

Currently I'm running 15 lands, 1 Chrome, 1 Diamond, and I'm much happier...but I've taken a turn from the traditional Tin Fins list and added Daze along with Careful Study.

Dave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindlash

I tried to solve this with a second Chrome Mox instead of a dual. Not sure about it yet. Neither would have mattered in 40 goldfished games.

I seem to struggle with finding Entomb in those Games where I did not start with one. Tried a list with more Griselbrands and exchanged Ponder for Careful Study. Study was nice to get some fat into the grave, but in all other situations and especially in board games Ponder is superior by far...addionally...more Griselbrands on starting seven suck as well :D

What I am pretty sure on is that 4/3 protection suit fits me better than 4/2/1.

I am probably not mulliganing right with this deck. If I do not kill on turn 1 or 2 I am not satisfied ;)

But I will definitly give this list a try. Like the sideboard too. Started with Lelay's list from Stormboards with a transformational board.

Greetings Chris

---

Lim-Dul's Vault has been a big help in making the deck more consistent. I love casting it on t2 to secure a t3.

As Koby mentioned, the Silence was dropped to the board due to less combo being around.

In fact, if you click on his blog, read the Tinfins hands post, it has a lot of good info on mulligans and how to play things out.

Last thing to note, I highly recommend learning how to play with a reactive sideboard. Many of the transformational ones are slower, and learning how to fight through hate makes you stronger with the deck.

Quote:

---

It's hard to beat a Esper Stoneblade holding 2 Counterspell, 1 FoW, 1 Flusterstorm when your opponent has 5 lands in play to your 1.
Don't keep a hand that contains 2 Griselbrand and Emrakul unless it also has a Dark Ritual, discard, and Shallow Grave along with a land. You'll lose otherwise.

---

That's how I lost to Deathblade! 1 land vs gorillion counterspells.

Quote:

---

I'd gauge the Turn 1 win percentage is around 20-30% of the time. Adding Turn 2 kills to that metric bumps it up to about 50-60%, if not more. I don't have exact numbers on this since I have not kept any statistics whatsoever. It's all based on experience.

---

I've played a lot of games and feel like this is accurate. I should probably keep some statistics, but that's too much work.

Quote:

---

41 players @ Card Addiction Legacy
R1: Classic Reanimator (2-1)
R2: Quad Laser Dredge (2-1)
R3: Cheater Miracles [maindeck REB] (2-0)
R4: Esper Stoneblade [heavy counters] (0-2)
R5: Loam Depths (2-0)
R6: ANT (ID)
T8: Esper Stoneblade [different player] (2-0)
T4: ANT (0-2)

Won a Tropical Island. Woot!

---

Good showing! Sucks that the detailed report got eaten.

Went 4-0 and a local legacy event tonight. I don't usually do tournament reports but I figured i'd throw this up. I ran Koby's list with a 15 card SB (3 chain of vapor).

Round 1 vs. Dredge

The pilot doesn't usually play legacy and was just filling in so we had an even number. I won 2-0 by outracing him, nothing really notable happened.

Round 2 Vs. Lands

I win game 1 on turn 2.

Game two he goes chalice for one on t1, and I cant find an answer before I get hit with a 20/20.

Game 3 was long. He gets an early chalice on 0 and sphere of resistance. I get a Grizzle into play twice but can't storm out, leaving him at 6 life. I end up keep a land to drop, petal, entomb, shallow, chain of vapor, entomb, and ponder. He end up with another chalice at 0 and another sphere of resistance. End of his turn, I bounce his sphere. He decides to play confidant on his turn instead of recasting sphere. This misplay costs him the game, as on his turn I have just enough mana to get out another grizzle and seal the deal.

Round 3 vs. Junk Depths

Game 1 is a t1 win.

Game two is really long. I get a couple grizzle swings in but im playing through chalice at 0 and thalia. I get her down to 6 life, with tendrils and a ritual and jst enough mana to go lethal. However, I dont realize I have no lands left in my deck when I fetch. I scoop, neglecting to realize I should have tendrils for 4 and hoped she died to her Dark Confidant, but im at 4 looking at thalia, bob, and knight of the reliquary and I scooped thinking I was done for.

Game three I win on turn 3. Turn one she plays double mox diamond, chalice at 0, chalice at 1, my turn two I land a serenity and 6 for 1 her. I combo out on my next turn.

Round 4 vs. Burn

I decide to draw for the money on the line, but we played the games anyway and I ended up winning. I was a little worried about playing burn and dying when trying to combo, but I probably should have played it out. G1 I fizzle while comboing, not getting enough to to tendrils and has to swing the grizzle.

Game 2 I win on turn 2 or 3, easy game.

Game three I go off t2 and draw my entire deck, got to 100 life for fun, and cast tendrils for about 40.

All in all it was a great tournament. Won some cash and had a good time. Serenity was an all star and LDV was amazing every time I had it, including being able to imprint it against a port/ wasteland deck. I definitely think the U/B/W version is the one to play.

Cheers!

Another good showing! Team Griselbanned doing work this week!

Getting a 6 for 1 off of Serenity feels so good- I did that to a friend playing lands last Friday while we were play testing.

All these great reports, making me want to start running this bad boy again. FWIW, I've stuck to the 13 land/2 mox configuration and have been pretty happy with that when going off. I don't feel like I get screwed any harder than when running 14 lands, although I haven't been keeping stats so I could be completely talking out of my ass.

Regardless, congrats to all of you guys for the great finishes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

All these great reports, making me want to start running this bad boy again. FWIW, I've stuck to the 13 land/2 mox configuration and have been pretty happy with that when going off. I don't feel like I get screwed any harder than when running 14 lands, although I haven't been keeping stats so I could be completely talking out of my ass. Regardless, congrats to all of you guys for the great finishes.

---

I think that particular mana configuration works for you because you're better with the deck than I am. You know when to keep and when to mull, and when you mull, you know what to keep again. I'm still figuring that out.

I think that makes a huge difference in how the deck runs. For now, with my level of experience with it, I keep finding myself in situations where I don't have enough land in my opening hand or first mulligan to play the deck to a win.

You'll note I've gone to 15 land(!), a Mox Diamond, and a Chrome Mox. I LOVE the Diamond. So far in test runs I am not forced to mulligan, and I'm seeing turn 2 kills regularly. I'll test it tonight at the tournament. Hopefully we'll have 5 rounds so I can give a good accounting. We never cut to top 8 (which is horrible because the top two always split and ruin everyone else's changes of winning).

Dave

My impression about the mana base is that against metagame without a saturation of Wastelands and Stifle, 13 lands would e sufficient (albeit, on the lighter side). The decision to bump up to 14 was to combat potential Wastelands, Dazes, and Stifles.

In construction, it's intended to more or less mirror TES from a mana base/accelerants stand point. This is purposefully done to obtain a higher percentage of Turn 1 & 2 kills. Mulligan decisions are a prerequisite requirement of the early game kills. (well, and being lucky to have Entomb and Dark Ritual :P)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

]Mulligan decisions are a prerequisite requirement of the early game kills. (well, and being lucky to have Entomb and Dark Ritual :P)

---

Yes! I agree. Also, Swamp/Entomb/Dark Rit/Goryo's in the opening hand is awesome...

I do however, concede that most configurations will work upto 15 lands. They trade the explosive/glass cannon approach for more consistent mana. I suspect, but have not been able to empirical test, that the higher land counts will have a slightly higher fizzle rate due to dead draws. If the Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal count is not reduced, I don't think it will make much of an impact if you draw <land> or <Ponder>; so maybe I'm just bullshitting. Something to think about...

If we are running 15 lands, I like the mox diamond idea. At 14, I think I would prefer a second chrome mox, especially if we are playing 2 LDV. But the land configuration as is has worked very well for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidHernandez

I think that particular mana configuration works for you because you're better with the deck than I am.

---

That is the funniest thing I've read all week! I'm a terrible combo player because I tend to have zero patience and just go all in...maybe that's why 13 lands works out for me. Also I still run one basic Island. I just felt like I wasn't having as much trouble going off as I was hitting Tendrils mana afterwards. Also, more often than not I've already played my land for the turn by the time I get Grizzlebees in play, so every land drawn off him is garbage. It seems to me that a lot of combo guys loathe Chrome Mox, but it really hasn't bothered me that much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

That is the funniest thing I've read all week! I'm a terrible combo player because I tend to have zero patience and just go all in...maybe that's why 13 lands works out for me. Also I still run one basic Island. I just felt like I wasn't having as much trouble going off as I was hitting Tendrils mana afterwards. Also, more often than not I've already played my land for the turn by the time I get Grizzlebees in play, so every land drawn off him is garbage. It seems to me that a lot of combo guys loathe Chrome Mox, but it really hasn't bothered me that much.

---

No, seriously, I think I use extra lands as a crutch because I don't mulligan properly. Or I don't keep hands that I should...because I don't recognize there's a winning combo coming.

Last night I was VERY happy with my deck build, but I lost two matches and took myself out of the running because I'm stupid. I had Daze in hand and a tapped Island. Opponent taps out to swords griselbrand. I don't daze. Really?? I didn't even see that I had the Underground in play. Stupid. Then, another match I Dazed a spell I should have let resolve, and the next turn the dude went off. Stupid.

I'm my worst enemy.

But I'm learning, and the deck is strong. I'm getting better with it. Hopefully in this case I CAN fix stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidHernandez

No, seriously, I think I use extra lands as a crutch because I don't mulligan properly. Or I don't keep hands that I should...because I don't recognize there's a winning combo coming. Or I mull hands I should keep.

Last night I was VERY happy with my deck build, but I lost two matches and took myself out of the running because I'm stupid. I had Daze in hand and a tapped Island. Opponent taps out to swords griselbrand. I don't daze. Really?? I didn't even see that I had the Underground in play. Stupid. Then, another match I Dazed a spell I should have let resolve, and the next turn the dude went off. Stupid.

I'm my worst enemy.

But I'm learning, and the deck is strong. I'm getting better with it. Hopefully in this case I CAN fix stupid.

---

You may have some of my other problem with combo: I get nervous playing it for no reason. I miss shit all the time because I get all tweaked out, even if it's an 8-man with a bunch of guys I see every week. I honestly need to play this and maybe TES some more to get over that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

You may have some of my other problem with combo: I get nervous playing it for no reason. I miss shit all the time because I get all tweaked out, even if it's an 8-man with a bunch of guys I see every week. I honestly need to play this and maybe TES some more to get over that.

---

That's a good point. I used to play slow UW Miracle decks, then Death and Taxes. I have the pieces for ANT and will practice with Tin Fins and ANT. Good observation by you. I'll take that suggestion and get comfortable with combo.

Thanks.

I very ooccasionally miss something but I have a strong background of storm-based combo predating the banning of mystical. I am currently becoming more and more irritated by a lack of options for more entomb effects. Dammit all.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I sometimes forget, mid combo with emrakul in hand, that I can entomb and reanimated children-it just takes a sec to remeber lol.

On another note, at least in my meta I think this deck is very well positioned. We are faster than other combos, and I, at least, am overrun with non blue midrange dark depths decks.

Whoa. Doo eet.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-05-03-13-1/

Currently in bed, so here's a quick link.

I talked about sideboards on page 70 or 71 IIRC. It was a long post, with another post nearby talking about various hate people bring in for us.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

---

I like this list so far. Seems to be pretty consistent.

How would you board against Maverick, Patriot and Elves with it?

Greetings Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindlash

I like this list so far. Seems to be pretty consistent.

How would you board against Maverick, Patriot and Elves with it?

Greetings Chris

---

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778798


UWR blade: -1 Reanimate -4 Probe -1 Ponder -1 LDV
+2 Silence +3 Chain +2 Massacre

Death and Taxes: +2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate

(Death and Taxes and Maverick attack along the same angles and the cards we care about are the same, so I just use the plan for D&T)

Elves I usually just board out the Swamp and go balls to the wall since I'm faster than they are, but you could also bring in both Massacre. They have DRS, and some discard against us, but that's usually it. MAYBE Relic, but I've never seen it.

For all you guys making small misplays and getting nervous while playing- just be ballsy. If you play fearlessly, your opponent will be afraid of you. The more you do it, the easier it becomes, trust me.

Then again, I played DDFT for a year before picking up the deck, so this was a large step down in difficulty for me (still has a lot of hard decisions and I occasionally mess up).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acclimation

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778798


UWR blade: -1 Reanimate -4 Probe -1 Ponder -1 LDV
+2 Silence +3 Chain +2 Massacre

Death and Taxes: +2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate

(Death and Taxes and Maverick attack along the same angles and the cards we care about are the same, so I just use the plan for D&T)

Elves I usually just board out the Swamp and go balls to the wall since I'm faster than they are, but you could also bring in both Massacre. They have DRS, and some discard against us, but that's usually it. MAYBE Relic, but I've never seen it.

For all you guys making small misplays and getting nervous while playing- just be ballsy. If you play fearlessly, your opponent will be afraid of you. The more you do it, the easier it becomes, trust me.

Then again, I played DDFT for a year before picking up the deck, so this was a large step down in difficulty for me (still has a lot of hard decisions and I occasionally mess up).

---

I should learn to read more carefully. I saw your plan against UWR Blade in an earlier post but thought of some old Punishing Fire Stoneblade build for whatever reason :)

Since I use the same plan for Maverick and Death and Taxes in my ANT build too I should have been able to answer most of my questions myself :)

But thanks for your reply.

I guess you bring in and out the same cards against Team America / BUG Delver as you do against Shardless BUG and Jund due to Deathrite Shaman, Nihil Spellbomb and occasional permanent hate?

Greetings Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindlash

I guess you bring in and out the same cards against Team America / BUG Delver as you do against Shardless BUG and Jund due to Deathrite Shaman, Nihil Spellbomb and occasional permanent hate?

Greetings Chris

---

Correct - the Chain of Vapor handles many of the existing problems. Silence loses its efficiency against BUG builds due to their discard + counters. Alongside with DRS, they attack us from all three angles. This makes it a difficult (but not unwinnable) match.

This weekend I took TinFins to the SCG Atlanta event, I wasnt planning on playing but I was offered the deck and couldn't say no. The list is the general Koby list with the addition of +2 Echoing Truth ( Should have been [card] Hoodwink [/card] / -2 Chain on board. Here are my matches in order Sneak and Show (Win), U/W Stoneblade (Win), Goblins (Loss), Elves (Win), Shardless Value (Win), Mono Red Sneak (Loss), U/R Delver Burn (Loss), Elves (Loss), Murica Delver (Loss).

RD1, Very nice guy from TN who I have played multiple events with. He leads Volc -> Ponder -> Probe, I show him my hand witch has Griselbrand with no other gas/ Info. Eventually I grind him out with Thoughtseize / Therapy and Combo kill.
G2 he mulls to 5, I keep a nuts hand and when he hits 4 mana I silence him, he spell pierces and passes. I cantrip a few times, then he casts a S&T and Griselbrand hits the table for me and then I win.

RD2, Chinese Student from Emory, very little English but an amazingly nice and talented player, Han was his name.
G1, Probe to see Thalia x2, Revoker, SFM, TNN, Tundra, Gate, Clique. Therapy Thalia, combo kill on T2
G2, He T1 Karakas into Tutor for Cannonist, I pack it up and move to SB.
G3, T1 Probe Therapy away a Humility, cantrip a few turns and Griselbrand and hardcast Emrakul

RD3, New to legacy player, on Goblins.
G1, Mesa into Lacky, pass, played Swamp, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave so fast and kill him after I looped Emrakul a few times.
G2, T1 Relic into T2 Thalia, I kept a reasonable hand to deal with those threats but my mana was taxed.
G3, Thoughtseize Relic, He rips relic T1 and casts it, Rips Thalia, WL and Port get me.

RD4, Jeff, Elves, Said something about fun and interactive magic.
G1, T1 Storm Kill
G2, T1 DRS into T3 Hoof
G3, T1 DRS but doesnt draw mana, Taps DRS to cast GSZ for DA so he can cast scooze next turn with mana. I killed him though.

RD5, Local friend Mike who is on Shardless BUG, we both know what we are on, so we have a very friendly casual game of magic.
G1 I got the T1 kill.
G2 He T1 DRS and I ponder into Rit for the T1.

RD6 Local who is on Mono Red Sneak Attack, Same deck I played in GPDC to a lifetilt.
G1 No notes, I T1'd him.
G2 No notes, He T3'd me.
G3 Chalice on 1, Chalice on 2, Sneak Attack + Griselbrand , Worldspine, and Blightsteel
I made the whole table laugh with my comment "SO This is how it feels to be on the otherside"

RD7 Played Andrew Schnider, Local friend and UR Delver Patron
Quick 2 losses, we played the night before so he knew what I was on, knew how to interact, so I was okay losing to my friend.

RD8 Hayden on Elves
G1, T1 DRS, I snap off the Rit, Entomb, Grave for GB and show him my hand and he concedes.
G2 / G3 Were both Double DRS / Therapy / Thoughtseize games, I had no hand.

RD8, Tired, Wanted Food, No top 64, Derp

I really still love the deck and hopefully have the oppertunity to play it at GPNJ this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon

RD3, New to legacy player, on Goblins.
G1, Mesa into Lacky, pass, played Swamp, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave so fast and kill him after I looped Emrakul a few times.
G2, T1 Relic into T2 Thalia, I kept a reasonable hand to deal with those threats but my mana was taxed.
G3, Thoughtseize Relic, He rips relic T1 and casts it, Rips Thalia, WL and Port get me.

---

I think it's a rite of passage to lose to Goblins.

Seriously, I've lost against that deck more than I care to admit to as combo.


Good effort though, keep practicing and you'll be in good shape!

Losing to goblins is soooo demoralizing. :( i feel your pain! I lost to goblins in a GPT with Tin Fins right before GP Denver to an Earwig Squad. Twice. Sometimes they just get you. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .dk

Losing to goblins is soooo demoralizing. :( i feel your pain! I lost to goblins in a GPT with Tin Fins right before GP Denver to an Earwig Squad. Twice. Sometimes they just get you. :)

---

Yeah I had to walk outside and get air. Its really stressful to lose to a match that feels like 90/10.

I will play TinFins again when the time comes (When my friend gives it to me) but for now back to the Belcher / SI / Doomsday side of the world!