[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by menloe

You got a link to the Wordpress? I'd love to read it.

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I have no idea, but I think he is referring to https://mtgmaverick.wordpress.com/.

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Originally Posted by aspsnake

I have no idea, but I think he is referring to https://mtgmaverick.wordpress.com/.

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Cheers!

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Originally Posted by aspsnake

I have no idea, but I think he is referring to https://mtgmaverick.wordpress.com/.

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Yes, thats the link. I felt that it would be cool to have something similar to thraben university but for Maverick. I haven't updated since that tournament. But I have previous TRs on my previous laptop.

@NEELY: I acknowledge your perspective about consistency. However I feel that because the meta is shifting to a non-delver
meta, the deck should shift as well.

There is a Legacy GPT that's coming up this Saturday. I will run your list (no CC, no Leovold, none of that, however some SB cards needs to,be change in correspondence to the store's meta). I will write a TR and post it on my blog.

@ thunderknight

What is the meta like? A lot of combo, miracles or 4c piles?

What is the meta like? A lot of combo, miracles or 4c piles?

It honestly depends who shpws up.I expect their to be fair decks (DnT and shardless), BR Reanimator. And Trinisphere decks (Mono red, Lands, Etc)

I think my main contention with collected company at this point is that the matchups is best in imo are against value packed BUG/4C decks and Miracles. However I think GSZ is also just as good in those matchups. So to replace GSZ with CC is like trying to fix what's not broken.

I have heard people say that CC can complement GSZ but I don't think it really fills the same role. The power of GSZ is in card selection, not outright value.

Beyond the matchups where value would be good, against combo decks CC is terrible. GSZ is a fine card to find T2 gaddock teeg etc. off a T1 dork against decks like storm or to find QP mage against sneak attack/omni. It's also good in grabbing scavenging ooze/drs in the matchups it matters.

My last point about CC is that though most of the time it hits and can be insane you do have times where it whiffs or in the mid to late game you just flashed in EOT DRS which for 4 mana is underwhelming. It's a drawback to a card that is already pushing it.

When CC first came out I desperately wanted it to work. It sometimes works beautifully which makes the card feel justified. But on an overall scale it just costs too much for an effect that can whiff and can be crap to variance.

I think if you want to go the value route planeswalkers are your best bet. They are more consistent and even though they allow time for you opponent to re-act you know if they stick they can start to take over the game turn after turn.

Hey everyone this is my first post here I wanted to say that this deck is super fun to play -- so much so that it makes me not want to play any other deck or format.

I've been trying a variety of things on and off for the past year, and for now I've settled on a maindeck that is 5 cards different from Dan's "stock" list. I'm definitely not trying to claim my changes are good, but I really like them.

-2nd Bayou
-Gaea's Cradle
+Thespian's Stage
+Dark Depths
Part of this change is cost -- a 2nd Bayou and a Gaea's Cradle are expensive. But besides that, even if it makes the deck worse and less consistent on average, I enjoy having the combo because it lets you win games that you otherwise would have no chance of winning.

-4th Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-4th Mother of Runes
+Tireless Tracker
+Titania, Protector of Argoth
I really don't like seeing Mother of Runes or Thalia in duplicates. I realize that I should be playing 4 for consistency and also so I can replace them when they die, but I'd rather run fun GSZ targets.
I'm not sold on Tireless Tracker and it would be the first card I would change if I were to change anything, but I'm still trying it out.
Titania has won me many games. It's a dead card unless the game goes long, but having a tutorable card that can win many late games is awesome.

-Sword of Light and Shadow
+2nd Sylvan Library
I tried Sword of Light and Shadow for awhile but I was not impressed. I'm willing to believe I was just playing it wrong, but I don't think I ever got value off of its return a creature ability because I never seem to have creatures in my graveyard. Also, one time I got wrecked because it protected my own creature from my own mother of runes so that sucks :)
I love having two Sylvan Libraries in the maindeck -- if they weren't so bad in duplicates I would run 4 but I personally would want to see 1 in every single matchup.

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Originally Posted by EkajArmstro

Hey everyone this is my first post here I wanted to say that this deck is super fun to play -- so much so that it makes me not want to play any other deck or format.

I've been trying a variety of things on and off for the past year, and for now I've settled on a maindeck that is 5 cards different from Dan's "stock" list. I'm definitely not trying to claim my changes are good, but I really like them.

-2nd Bayou
-Gaea's Cradle
+Thespian's Stage
+Dark Depths
Part of this change is cost -- a 2nd Bayou and a Gaea's Cradle are expensive. But besides that, even if it makes the deck worse and less consistent on average, I enjoy having the combo because it lets you win games that you otherwise would have no chance of winning.

-4th Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-4th Mother of Runes
+Tireless Tracker
+Titania, Protector of Argoth
I really don't like seeing Mother of Runes or Thalia in duplicates. I realize that I should be playing 4 for consistency and also so I can replace them when they die, but I'd rather run fun GSZ targets.
I'm not sold on Tireless Tracker and it would be the first card I would change if I were to change anything, but I'm still trying it out.
Titania has won me many games. It's a dead card unless the game goes long, but having a tutorable card that can win many late games is awesome.

-Sword of Light and Shadow
+2nd Sylvan Library
I tried Sword of Light and Shadow for awhile but I was not impressed. I'm willing to believe I was just playing it wrong, but I don't think I ever got value off of its return a creature ability because I never seem to have creatures in my graveyard. Also, one time I got wrecked because it protected my own creature from my own mother of runes so that sucks :)
I love having two Sylvan Libraries in the maindeck -- if they weren't so bad in duplicates I would run 4 but I personally would want to see 1 in every single matchup.

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The combo is fine and probably wins you some games. But, realistically I have won so many games with cradle and can have absurd turns. I preach consistency, I want to do well, cute cards are fun but if you want to give yourself the best chances to win I wouldn't. I have played 2 library a lot but I felt like adding main deck decay that I had to cut 1. Sword of light and shadow is the 2nd best sword and goes great against decay, stoneforge decks. Also reoccurring pridemage is amazing. Thalia and Mothers are too good not to play 4, sorry!

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Originally Posted by NEELEY

The combo is fine and probably wins you some games. But, realistically I have won so many games with cradle and can have absurd turns. I preach consistency, I want to do well, cute cards are fun but if you want to give yourself the best chances to win I wouldn't. I have played 2 library a lot but I felt like adding main deck decay that I had to cut 1. Sword of light and shadow is the 2nd best sword and goes great against decay, stoneforge decks. Also reoccurring pridemage is amazing. Thalia and Mothers are too good not to play 4, sorry!

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I have also never been a fan of the combo off of knight play. If you have an active knight of the Reliquary, you win, especially with the dumb things that cradle can power.

Sword of light and shadow is for swords to plowshares matchups and the combo with Pridemage, which is my favorite hatebear.

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Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun

I think my main contention with collected company at this point is that the matchups is best in imo are against value packed BUG/4C decks and Miracles. However I think GSZ is also just as good in those matchups. So to replace GSZ with CC is like trying to fix what's not broken.

I have heard people say that CC can complement GSZ but I don't think it really fills the same role. The power of GSZ is in card selection, not outright value.

Beyond the matchups where value would be good, against combo decks CC is terrible. GSZ is a fine card to find T2 gaddock teeg etc. off a T1 dork against decks like storm or to find QP mage against sneak attack/omni. It's also good in grabbing scavenging ooze/drs in the matchups it matters.

My last point about CC is that though most of the time it hits and can be insane you do have times where it whiffs or in the mid to late game you just flashed in EOT DRS which for 4 mana is underwhelming. It's a drawback to a card that is already pushing it.

When CC first came out I desperately wanted it to work. It sometimes works beautifully which makes the card feel justified. But on an overall scale it just costs too much for an effect that can whiff and can be crap to variance.

I think if you want to go the value route planeswalkers are your best bet. They are more consistent and even though they allow time for you opponent to re-act you know if they stick they can start to take over the game turn after turn.

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I can understand that justification. When I resolved company, the creatures that it spat out won me games the that i knew I was dead. As someone who also wants company to be a justifable card, I think it requires a slight adjustment.

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Originally Posted by NEELEY

The combo is fine and probably wins you some games. But, realistically I have won so many games with cradle and can have absurd turns. I preach consistency, I want to do well, cute cards are fun but if you want to give yourself the best chances to win I wouldn't. I have played 2 library a lot but I felt like adding main deck decay that I had to cut 1. Sword of light and shadow is the 2nd best sword and goes great against decay, stoneforge decks. Also reoccurring pridemage is amazing. Thalia and Mothers are too good not to play 4, sorry!

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I have actually had the opposite experience with Cradle in the context of consistency. The games where I have 2-4 creatures that makes Cradle great I would be winning regardless. Cradle just gets super bad if you have 0-1 creatures in play--which is often in games 2-3. The great thing about the Depths combo is that even if they sweep the board twice in a game, a topdecked Green Sun's Zenith can still just make a 20/20 and win despite only have 1 creature in play.

Leaning on a card that only does something when you already have a developed board feels a bit meh in the context of "aiming for more consistency."

I do agree that the card is super powerful, and when you have a full board, adding a Cradle makes your strong position even stronger. The opposite is true for Depths where you only ever search for it when you're in a bad position. So when you're behind on board, or when they've stripped your graveyard, or if you have no evasion creature. When in a position where you need outs because you're behind--Depths gives you that out. Cradle needs for you to already have a bunch of stuff out and an equipment/scooze that is hopefully also out to abuse the mana with. However, you never mind searching for it with your KotR when you have a board presence already out there.

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

I have actually had the opposite experience with Cradle in the context of consistency. The games where I have 2-4 creatures that makes Cradle great I would be winning regardless. Cradle just gets super bad if you have 0-1 creatures in play--which is often in games 2-3. The great thing about the Depths combo is that even if they sweep the board twice in a game, a topdecked Green Sun's Zenith can still just make a 20/20 and win despite only have 1 creature in play.

Leaning on a card that only does something when you already have a developed board feels a bit meh in the context of "aiming for more consistency."

I do agree that the card is super powerful, and when you have a full board, adding a Cradle makes your strong position even stronger. The opposite is true for Depths where you only ever search for it when you're in a bad position. So when you're behind on board, or when they've stripped your graveyard, or if you have no evasion creature. When in a position where you need outs because you're behind--Depths gives you that out. Cradle needs for you to already have a bunch of stuff out and an equipment/scooze that is hopefully also out to abuse the mana with. However, you never mind searching for it with your KotR when you have a board presence already out there.

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From a power standpoint, Gaea's Cradle is one of the(if not the) most powerful cards in the format, being able to fetch, play and equip a sword or jitte in the same turn can be back breaking and can be used to rebuild after removal or two up the velocity to win before a sweeper, lock or combo.

The Dark Depths combo is going to specifically be good against decks where the board will stall. Getting an active Knight for two turns is game winning no matter what he is fetching/doing. We can all come up with situations where one would be better than the other, but Maverick already has ways to beat board stalls ie Mom/Swords to where having the ability to slam on the accelerator should be much more effective/needed.

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Originally Posted by aspsnake

Hi,

that's a very interesting approach! I would personally play 2x mb +1x sb, as there are much more than D&T where Sanctum is not-so-amazing, including Maverick and decks with 1,2,3-cost removal. There are decks like RUG delver though that get obliterated by this card if it resolves. I would even consider playing 2x Caverns (Hierarchs are humans, huh), since with Prelates they aid to throw delver decks from the roof.

I also think that in your particular version Hierarchs are justifiable. They are really bad to -1/-1 effects and forked bolts, but you can just lock those effects out with Prelates. Additionally, since Sanctum Prelates are very bad fighters, Hierarchs compensate for that, giving them +x/+x when attacking. But watch out for graveyard strategies: I see that you play 3x Faerie Macabre in sb, but I'd in your place diversify the hate a bit.

Another thing I would strongly consider playing in your list is the Thespian Stage + Dark Depths combo. In e.g. Death & Taxes matchup, it makes Prelates very valuable: you can turn off Swords and kill them with the combo if they are not expecting it. Same for Miracles.

Now a drop of criticism. I'd play Garruk over Gideon honestly. Another thing I really disagree with is B/G sword in the place of U/R: what are you even doing against a Fish? Once resolved, True-name just wins the game if you don't have an U/R Sword and/or Zealous Persecutions. If I were you, I'd also add 1-2 Council's Judgements to sb to have some extra Fish protection post-board. It also helps against a huge variety of things.

I made a slightly alternative take on your deck here: https://deckstats.net/deck-12830141-...5b4872712.html, might give it a try.

Now, a short guide to naming stuff with Prelate:

It's quite important that your opponent can respond to Prelate. If they have a Brainstorm in hand and you are likely to name [1], they will probably respond with it. If they have an Abrupt Decay and you are likely to name [2], they might just kill something on your field. If they don't respond, it might be a signal that they don't have the card. But don't overdo the logic, your opponent could make mistake too ;)

Delver decks: [1] if you don't know which delver, between [1] and [2] if it's BUG (trust your gut feeling: do they have an abrupt or a push)? I often pick 2 as it doesn't shut my own Swords.

Show&Tell: pretty much always [3], except rare cases if you somehow suspect a Pyroclasm or a naked Sneak Attack. Some weird people still play the [12]-mana sorcery that draws the deck, but this is very unlikely.

Miracles: [1] if you don't have a Mom and [6] if you do. If you have Mom+Teeg, go for 3 and lock them out pretty much completely.

Nic Fit: [3], [3], [3]. Yeah, they might have an AD, they might have Cabal Therapy, but with no information just name [3]. They often don't run much non-PD removal. If it's the Jund combo Scapeshift version, or Jund Punishing Fire version, [2] can be a decent pick too. But [3] is still decent since Pernicious Deed and Toxic Deluge send our deck to oblivion.

Burn: trust your gut. Before sideboard, often [6] is a good idea since it finishes many games real quick, but [2] can be also decent if your manabase feels icky to Price of Progress. Naming [1] is usually not so interesting since they often have already played their 1-drops by the time your play Prelate, and many people try to minimize 1-drops, especially non-creature, due to the popularity of Miracles. After sideboard, [2] is almost always a best pick, since they very often bring in 4x Smash to Smithereens and extra Searing Blazes.

Pox: [2], couldn't go wrong with that.

Infect: This one's tricky. [1] is pretty much the obvious choice, but [3] can be also decent if you rely on a Swords in your hand. Remember that they can kill us with the infect land or unblockable creature and a couple of Hierarchs without even casting anything.

Storm: before sideboard, [2] seems like a neat pick, against both versions: it shuts AD and their every wincon except a natural draw of lots of Dark Rituals (not Cabal Rituals!) and Ad Nauseum/Past in Flames, which is unlikely. Post-board, due to Massacre, [4] is a better option unless you've got a Teeg incoming.

Eldrazi: [2] to lock out chalice-for-1, post-board you can also name [3] for Dismember or [7] for All is Dust, but it's best to just side them out.

Dragon Stompy: [4] unless you have some kind of information that could suggest a better number.

Merfolk: [5] for Force or [2] for Jitte and Daze. Overall, quite useless, side them out.

Goblins: useless, can name [1] for Tarfire and Vials but be sure not to screw yourself with the Swords.

Bant: [1].

BUG control: [2], unless you sense a Liliana. If this is a cascade version, [0] for Ancestral Visions is a very decent pick too.

Loam/Lands: [2].

Reanimator: I personally prefer to name [2], as they have 8x 2-mana reanimations and 4x 1-mana ones. Also shuts AD and Collective Brutality.

Aluren, Dredge: [4].

Food Chain: [3].

Elves: padawan jedi sense you should train. [4] is natural not to die next turn from a Natural Order, but a good Glimpse could be easily stopped by a [1]. If you can Zenith for Teeg the turn after, locking both seems like a good idea, the order is up to your senses.

Goblin Charbelcher / Oops, All Spells: congrats, if the game went on to you casting a Prelate then something terrible happened to your opponent's hands. Either way, can't go wrong with a [4].

Hope it helps! Please don't hesitate to correct me if you think I'm wrong somewhere, or add ideas.

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Thank you so much for the in depth reply! I have been testing prelates all week and have been impressed. I cannot believe that the Maverick community as a whole has not embraced the new card. All of the slower combo decks immediately become even to favorable match ups with 3x prelate. Mom-Prelate shuts down food chain/aluren which can be difficult for straight maverick and prelates give you a way to almost pick apart an opponent Death and Taxes style.

Even in match-ups without tons of targets(obviously game 1) Prelate can be used to set up scenarios that are unbeatable for example an active knight with prelate on 1 to prevent swords to plowshares against DnT. Prelate on 3 with sword of feast and famine is almost unbeatable by BUG as they lose the ability to answer the sword.

Many match-ups have interesting creature combinations and prelate values that I am learning and still trying to figure out. The interaction with sword protection also makes the color/number combinations more interesting. i.e. prelate on 6 with a sword of light and shadow against miracles or the already mentioned prelate on 3/sword of feast and famine and I am sure that there are more combinations that need to be found.

Prelate on 2 is really good to block abrupt decay in order to get an active sword, and prelate on 1 is good against all of the cantrips in the format.

I went back to the Deathrites and upped the fetch count just to increased the turn 1 "hatebear" factor against certian graveyard decks. I havent had a problem with the fish as Mom is a beating against them and the swords I use blank their removal as well, with pridemage wrecking equipment the fish is just a 3/1 blocker against a Knight of the Reliquary. That being said, I added some sideboard respect for the fish.

Why would you play Garruk over Gideon? Gideon automatically makes a stream of 2/2's and can pump the whole team if allowed to live. He also is the fastest clock from a planeswalker against decks that have issues blocking as cracking in for 5 is no laughing matter.

Right now I am at:

Prelate Maverick

Creatures(25)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells(8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Things(5)
1 Sylvan Library
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of LIght and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Lands(22)
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst

Sideboard(15)
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
3 Containment Priest
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Boujka Bog
1 Council's Judgement

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

From a power standpoint, Gaea's Cradle is one of the(if not the) most powerful cards in the format, being able to fetch, play and equip a sword or jitte in the same turn can be back breaking and can be used to rebuild after removal or two up the velocity to win before a sweeper, lock or combo.

The Dark Depths combo is going to specifically be good against decks where the board will stall. Getting an active Knight for two turns is game winning no matter what he is fetching/doing. We can all come up with situations where one would be better than the other, but Maverick already has ways to beat board stalls ie Mom/Swords to where having the ability to slam on the accelerator should be much more effective/needed.



Thank you so much for the in depth reply! I have been testing prelates all week and have been impressed. I cannot believe that the Maverick community as a whole has not embraced the new card. All of the slower combo decks immediately become even to favorable match ups with 3x prelate. Mom-Prelate shuts down food chain/aluren which can be difficult for straight maverick and prelates give you a way to almost pick apart an opponent Death and Taxes style.

Even in match-ups without tons of targets(obviously game 1) Prelate can be used to set up scenarios that are unbeatable for example an active knight with prelate on 1 to prevent swords to plowshares against DnT. Prelate on 3 with sword of feast and famine is almost unbeatable by BUG as they lose the ability to answer the sword.

Many match-ups have interesting creature combinations and prelate values that I am learning and still trying to figure out. The interaction with sword protection also makes the color/number combinations more interesting. i.e. prelate on 6 with a sword of light and shadow against miracles or the already mentioned prelate on 3/sword of feast and famine and I am sure that there are more combinations that need to be found.

Prelate on 2 is really good to block abrupt decay in order to get an active sword, and prelate on 1 is good against all of the cantrips in the format.

I went back to the Deathrites and upped the fetch count just to increased the turn 1 "hatebear" factor against certian graveyard decks. I havent had a problem with the fish as Mom is a beating against them and the swords I use blank their removal as well, with pridemage wrecking equipment the fish is just a 3/1 blocker against a Knight of the Reliquary. That being said, I added some sideboard respect for the fish.

Why would you play Garruk over Gideon? Gideon automatically makes a stream of 2/2's and can pump the whole team if allowed to live. He also is the fastest clock from a planeswalker against decks that have issues blocking as cracking in for 5 is no laughing matter.

Right now I am at:

Prelate Maverick

Creatures(25)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells(8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Things(5)
1 Sylvan Library
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of LIght and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Lands(22)
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst

Sideboard(15)
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
3 Containment Priest
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Boujka Bog
1 Council's Judgement

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Gideon is a fine choice.

I would say the advantages to Garruk are his mana cost is much easier to hit then double white. He's more flexible in general as he is also removal and can flip to be a tutor effect and still make tokens. I wouldn't say either is strictly better but I think Garruk might suit Maverick a little better (I have won games being able to tutor for things like mother of runes, popped other annoying DRS etc..) . Both are solid. Garruk is definitely more fragile.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

From a power standpoint, Gaea's Cradle is one of the(if not the) most powerful cards in the format, being able to fetch, play and equip a sword or jitte in the same turn can be back breaking and can be used to rebuild after removal or two up the velocity to win before a sweeper, lock or combo.

The Dark Depths combo is going to specifically be good against decks where the board will stall. Getting an active Knight for two turns is game winning no matter what he is fetching/doing. We can all come up with situations where one would be better than the other, but Maverick already has ways to beat board stalls ie Mom/Swords to where having the ability to slam on the accelerator should be much more effective/needed.

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I don't disagree with your assessment on the power of each card, or the purpose of each card--I was merely pointing out that the myth that you run cradle for consistency is false. Both cards have pluses and minuses depending on what board state you like being ready for.

Cradle is great if you're hoping to have a bunch of dudes and you want to do things a turn faster. The card is bad if you don't have equipment or things to sink the mana into, and gets awful if they sweep the board.

Depths is great if you're worried they have sweepers or a heavy removal package or if you are the type of player who wants flexible outs to bad board position not normally available. But be prepared to have your mana base be slightly more awkward to fit this monster that you never want to search for (except when you're losing) into your 75.

Which being better "overall" is arbitrary and different people will give different reasons why their opinion is correct--I am not arguing against any of that.

If you really want "consistency" then you'd run neither and opt for something more bland, but flexible--like a Tower of the Magistrate, or a Cavern of Souls, etc... Something that gives mana untapped and has some bonus on top of that. One that doesn't care if you're ahead or behind. But I am of the opinion that Maverick can't afford to not run inconsistent (but powerful) cards. Cradle is one of those cards, depths is another.

I do believe we are in agreement on the power of both cards. Lets just leave it at that.

I think Punishing Maverick needs to take a hard look at the 5cc warrior that was revealed, plus the Red Mentor. Both seem very good here.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

I think Punishing Maverick needs to take a hard look at the 5cc warrior that was revealed, plus the Red Mentor. Both seem very good here.

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This is a more general question; when making Punishing Macverick, what stops you from going full Aggro Loam?

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

This is a more general question; when making Punishing Macverick, what stops you from going full Aggro Loam?

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Threat density. I playtested it hard a while back (Pre-GP NJ) and felt I just lost the game if my 1-2 threats died.
I liked having Thalia instead of Chalice, etc, etc.

Punishing Maverick's worst situation is that you need to cut Thalia 1.0 from the list. But she's so ridiculous right now lol. In the right room, you could make the decision that pfires > thalia but for a large scale event I'd lean on Thalia all the way.

How often do you guys find yourself chain wastelanding with Knight?

Most of the time, I find him as a big beater/wall and not much else... I know he is one of the reasons the deck exists but I am currently questioning his usefulness in the current meta.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

How often do you guys find yourself chain wastelanding with Knight?

Most of the time, I find him as a big beater/wall and not much else... I know he is one of the reasons the deck exists but I am currently questioning his usefulness in the current meta.

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I think Knight is super important. Aside from trying to get an equipment online she's the only real heavyweight creature we pack. I don't always go to chain wastelands but I have had enough games where I have and it's pretty much led me to victory. If knight is small it's at the very least a good way to interact with them and start growing her.

To me there are enough gurmag angler/eldrazi/goyf etc.. that having a creature to compete with them in terms of P/T is very important.

The other huge thing about Knight for me is karakas. Having knight makes marit large feel much less scary and decks like show and tell rely off either A) setting up sneak attack with multiple red sources or B) relying on Omni.

I would never cut Knight personally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

How often do you guys find yourself chain wastelanding with Knight?

Most of the time, I find him as a big beater/wall and not much else... I know he is one of the reasons the deck exists but I am currently questioning his usefulness in the current meta.

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Please don't take this as flaming, but I don't think you're playing the deck correctly. KotR is the best creature in the deck and it has been nothing short of amazing.
Read the pages of this thread to get a better idea of what to play/sequence. 9 times out of 10 I am wasteland-ing the opponent prior to attacking with her. On rare occasion (especially if topdecking in the late-game), she switches to pure aggro to finish off a depleted opponent.

What is your current list? I just did well a few weeks ago with Vial-Maverick.