Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Speaking of SFM builds, this is where I'm currently at with my 4-colour plan:
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Brainstorm
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 other fetch land
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Phyrexian Tower
---
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pithing Needle
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
---
The deck is naturally strong against both aggro and control - is there a way to threaten combo reasonably? I don't think moving Teeg to the maindeck is a good idea with 4cmc planeswalkers. Maybe JTMS should become a Kaya - he's hard to cast and Kaya helps against combo decks as well as Miracles. I do think a Leovold and a Nissa, Vital Force should probably go in somewhere, and some copies of Lost Legacy would probably help against combo decks out of the sideboard.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
That's a really sweet list Navsi, would like to try it. I strongly suggest testing Leovold as a 1 of in your maindeck, I think he's the BUG version of Gaddock and never irrelevant. He should go pretty well with the maindeck discard, against combo you can try to hit combo-pieces in their opening hand and then remp into GSZ for Leovold shutting down their cantripping for more combo pieces. And Leovold is naturally good vs the non-combo decks.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ulysse95
I don't get what you mean...
Repeating, but just in case : Glissa's first strike + death touch made her a serial killer. Strenght/thoughtness doesn't matter if the opponnent creature doesn't have first neither double strike or an accurate protection or any other indestructible ability.
you can't get it because I was completely wrong abt the deathtouch/first strike rule.
tbh I thought glissa will die after blocking smasher but of course not. first strike is a state based action and therefore smasher will die before any damage can be dealt to glissa.
sorry :eyebrow:
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cherson
you can't get it because I was completely wrong abt the deathtouch/first strike rule.
tbh I thought glissa will die after blocking smasher but of course not. first strike is a state based action and therefore smasher will die before any damage can be dealt to glissa.
sorry :eyebrow:
Some rulings here, First Strike is not a SBA. A creature with First Strike basically gets to deal damage first in the First Strike portion of the Combat Damage (there is the normal combat phase after first strike for non first strikers) step during the Combat Phase. After dealing damage then we have a SBA check and the creature with Deathtouched marked damage from Glissa dies from SBA
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
Speaking of SFM builds, this is where I'm currently at with my 4-colour plan:
---
The deck is naturally strong against both aggro and control - is there a way to threaten combo reasonably? I don't think moving Teeg to the maindeck is a good idea with 4cmc planeswalkers. Maybe JTMS should become a Kaya - he's hard to cast and Kaya helps against combo decks as well as Miracles. I do think a Leovold and a Nissa, Vital Force should probably go in somewhere, and some copies of Lost Legacy would probably help against combo decks out of the sideboard.
I agree : Leovold deserve a main deck slot.
Along your fetchs, I think you should try 1or 2 ash barrens, isn't it?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ulysse95
Ash Barrens
I don't think it's worth it in this list.
- It doesn't give us any colored mana in our opening hand on turn one, and wants a mana of input before it does on later turns.
- Worse with Tireless Tracker
- We already have plenty of lifegain in the deck to offset fetchlands' costs
- Colorless mana isn't super useful because we play quite a few full-color spells
I think Ash Barrens would be best in a deck with more use for the colorless mana, maybe as a way to splash Thought-Knot Seer etc more easily in a three-colour deck? Manabase something like this:
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Underground River
3 Ash Barrens
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Wastes
11G/11B/10U/11C turn one, 14/14/13/11 if you have time to landcycle. Seems like it could potentially support a blue NicFit shell, making up for the usual blue weakness (lack of finishers) with Thought-Knot Seer and maybe Reality Smasher?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
How about a Junk + Colorless list so you get to abuse the white hatebears into Thoughtknot Seers in G2/3..? Seems like a better plan than Rhinos FTW vs. ANT/TES. Clock + disruption wrapped into 1 neat little package.
11 initial sources is too low for black and green though. We really want to be able to either Cabal Therapy or play a green card T1 reliably.
I just wouldn't know for the life of me how we'd ever be able to make the manabase stable without it growing too big.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
Speaking of SFM builds, this is where I'm currently at with my 4-colour plan:
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Brainstorm
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 other fetch land
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Phyrexian Tower
---
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pithing Needle
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
---
The deck is naturally strong against both aggro and control - is there a way to threaten combo reasonably? I don't think moving Teeg to the maindeck is a good idea with 4cmc planeswalkers. Maybe JTMS should become a Kaya - he's hard to cast and Kaya helps against combo decks as well as Miracles. I do think a Leovold and a Nissa, Vital Force should probably go in somewhere, and some copies of Lost Legacy would probably help against combo decks out of the sideboard.
Have you considered Rafiq of the Many?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
How about a Junk + Colorless list so you get to abuse the white hatebears into Thoughtknot Seers in G2/3..? Seems like a better plan than Rhinos FTW vs. ANT/TES. Clock + disruption wrapped into 1 neat little package.
11 initial sources is too low for black and green though. We really want to be able to either Cabal Therapy or play a green card T1 reliably.
I just wouldn't know for the life of me how we'd ever be able to make the manabase stable without it growing too big.
I remember trying out Nic Fit with Colourless Eldrazi splash quite a lot of pages before. Does not really work and I really died to my manabase quite a lot of times. Ash Barrens feels much like a instant speed uncounterable Traverse :confused: but I doubt if it will make the colourless splash work in Nic Fit
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fireiced
I really died to my manabase quite a lot of times. Ash Barrens feels much like a instant speed uncounterable Traverse :confused: but I doubt if it will make the colourless splash work in Nic Fit
"Like butter scraped over too much bread."
The deck has its limits. Unfortunately, this is one of them.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fireiced
Nic Fit Planeswalker Analysis, updated through Shadows over Innistrad has to be updated for Nissa being the sexiest cherry Nic Fit has ever gotten in a walker after Garruk Relentless :cool:
In the mediocre legacy league ran on twitch over the summer, Danny Batterman ran a nic fit Planeswalker control deck and his list had:
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Karn Liberated
1 Narset Transcendent
I can't recall how good Narset seemed, but I would not be surprised if either Ob Nixilis Reignitied or the new Nissa could work as 5-drop walkers which the list does not have any of. Ob Nixilis in particular seems like an improved Narset, providing both guaranteed card draw as well as removing troublesome creatures. Even using the new Nissa to recur Deeds could be solid.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
There are also some YouTube games online. Abzan nicfit planeswalker.
https://youtu.be/P6T_k1565MI
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
http://i.imgur.com/WhNqAaSh.png
http://imgur.com/WhNqAaS
RURIC THAR missing in the SB
Dipping my foot back in. This is my starting point for the online meta. Likely buying the rest this evening when I get home from work.
Suggestions and comments are always welcome.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Good old Chemfy, he was nice enough to upload a playlist of him playing nic fit (rhino version and the pw version) after I asked him to. He made some misplays but I was still happy to watch some videos of the deck in action.
He plays Bobmans rhino list and the abzan Pw posted by Arian some months ago.
Ps: Arian, have you been tuning the abzan PW version during this months? I played the deck a lot and want to know your current opinion on it
Current opinion is that I haven't played it at all or worked on it at all since the Grand Prix -- Sneak has gotten all of my attention. I will note that Gitrog is definitely not a card that should be in the deck any more -- he is, unfortunately, not quite as good at his role as other cards that fulfill a similar function better or for less mana.
That's about all I've got -- sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Another Thursday Legacy is done.
Went 3-0 in the tournament, 1-1-1 in my league match, against Miracles. Didn't have the official league standings nearby but as far as we could figure, I'm currently in first place. Which is a pretty nice feeling against a field of T1 decks.
The Miracles outcome is really unfortunate (though not unusual), but it was also interesting so I want to talk about it.
Game 1 involved a T2 Counterbalance/Top lock. With some good piloting to play around things, and my first land being a Cavern of Souls though I was able to play through it well for awhile. Eventually though, I just got overwhelmed. I didn't get a Top in that game, and while I did get a Tracker I only got one card from it before it was removed. I also lost my Dark Confidant to a Terminus without flipping anything because I had to keep a board presence going. For a long time I had a Dryad Arbor that was slowing down my opponents Jace but he eventually got me with an ultimate after a string of drawing 4 Windswept Heaths in a row.
Game 2 looked grim early on after yet another T2 Counter/Top lock. A few turns in my opponent attempted a Venser/Karakas lock but I was able to stop him, the next turn he established a Clique/Karakas lock though. Fortunately, I was SDT flooded in this game and had 3 of them, so I was able to cash them in for cards with shuffles, and manipulate things so that I could keep the cards I wanted away from the Clique. After a few turns though I was able to string together a Qasali Pridemage and Abrupt Decay and break both locks. It was a tough battle from that point on though because I never broke 3 lands on board (Bayou, Swamp, Stronghold), however I did have a Carpet of Flowers going. 2 resolved Sorin LoI's, an Eternal Witness, Dark Confidant, and something else later though I was able to stick enough to the board that I got there.
Game 3 started like normal with a T1 Top for both of us, from there though I was able to quickly pull ahead, Abrupt Decay the Counter/Top lock for the third game in a row, double Therapy his Brainstorm, Clique, Moat, and Jace, and leave him empty handed. The beats kept coming too with a Ranger of Eos providing a lot of power to the board. The game ended with me being 1 mana short of finishing things with a Sorin emblem.
So with those summaries out of the way, what I want to talk about is Cavern of Souls, and the importance of playing fast.
First Cavern. Yet again it has proven itself. This card is just good, it changes how you construct your deck a bit but from my experience with it over these past few weeks the results can't be denied. It wrecks Chalice of the Void plans, it lets you play through Counter/Top, it takes a land vs spell slot in the deck, and it can even be tutored with KotR (though I haven't had this one come up yet, it's a little slow). Against the prison decks, or Miracles, or Eldrazi, my win percentage is way higher in games where I have Caverns than where I don't. Sneak is doing something similar by landing a Sneak and then putting cards into play in a way where they can't be countered. That's one of the keys to the format right now. If you're not running them, I would highly suggest making the deck adjustments and doing so.
Second, playing fast. My Miracles match tonight went 1-1-1 instead of what should have been a 2-1 and I can perfectly see where the misplays were made. In about 3 turns over the 3 games I tanked and had to think about my plays, but otherwise it was near instantaneous (which is not always the easiest thing against a Miracles player who is taking shortcuts to save on the clock). Combined, this was probably a minute I could have saved. The biggest time waster though is shuffling. Something I've been trying to work on is getting faster at shuffling. It uses a ridiculous amount of time in 50 minute matches. If I could have shaved even 3 seconds off every shuffle in that match, there would have been atleast 2-3 more turns in the final game.
I have some idea of what I need to do but does anyone have a good shuffling technique? If I can get decent at it in the next couple weeks I want to try riffles because they're fast and effective. I'm still looking at playing in Louisville in January, but one of my requirements if I play Nic Fit is that I have a good shuffle due to the clock.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fireiced
I remember trying out Nic Fit with Colourless Eldrazi splash quite a lot of pages before. Does not really work and I really died to my manabase quite a lot of times. Ash Barrens feels much like a instant speed uncounterable Traverse :confused: but I doubt if it will make the colourless splash work in Nic Fit
I'm a big fan of Ash Barrens. It can probably work in a G/B/C build, but not G/B/X/C. It's a fantastic card, and I'm definitely going to play one once I can start altering my list again (locked due to a 12 week league). But you can't expect too much out of it. I think 1 copy over the 8th fetch is a good number for it.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
RURIC THAR missing in the SB
Dipping my foot back in. This is my starting point for the online meta. Likely buying the rest this evening when I get home from work.
Suggestions and comments are always welcome.
Our high priest has returneth! Welcome back!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
I have some idea of what I need to do but does anyone have a good shuffling technique? If I can get decent at it in the next couple weeks I want to try riffles because they're fast and effective. I'm still looking at playing in Louisville in January, but one of my requirements if I play Nic Fit is that I have a good shuffle due to the clock.
Congrats on the result! It seems your list is doing quite well. As for shuffles, I just do 7 mashes and then offer my deck to my opponent. Takes me a couple of seconds each.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Good to see you again my good man [emoji2] I hope you will smash rhinos into other people's faces again someday!
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
So thinking about builds some more.
I'm looking at something like this as a core for the deck:
6 Ramp Creatures (Veteran Explorer + Deathrite Shaman + Sakura-Tribe Elder)
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Zenithable Finisher (normally Sigarda, Primeval Titan, maybe Atraxa)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Color-specific Removal (Swords, Path, Punishing Fire)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Color-specific filter/cantrips (SDT, or Brainstorm in blue)
11-12 flex slots
21-23 lands
Does that look like a reasonable 'core' list to you guys? I get that sometimes things get dropped (some lists run 5 ramp creatures, or no Tireless Tracker) but I feel like the list above is as close to a core decklist as we can get.
