[Deck] The Gate

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Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411

Im planning to play TheGate again this weekend on a small tourney and im in somewhat of a trouble, because i dont have my Extirpate's yet....

At the moment, this is what im planning to have as my sideboard:

3 Dystopia
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Pithing Needle
3 Faerie Macabre
3 ______ (in this slot, there should be 3 Extirpate)

I am looking forward to see one or two "Lands"-player and perhaps even a "Reanimator"-player, can you give me a tip what i could use against them?
I thought about "Tsabo's Web" or "Planar Void" or "Leyline of the Void" - but i feel like the Leyline is bad since you have to mulligan aggressively to get it. Last time at the tournament, i was playing against that "Lands"-player and even after mulligan to 3, i did not get to see a Leyline on my opening hand. Has anyone tested "Tsabo's Web" and is it in any way usable against any other deck aside from "Lands" ?
I also thought about "Cremate" since it gives you a card back after removing a card :) What do you think?
(I am aware that Extirpate is the best choice, but as i said, i won't be able to have my 3 Extirpate by saturday :( )

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Against decks like Reanimator, you'll obviously want to bring in Faerie Macabre and Extirpate, depending on what kind of build they are running. Those cards really help seal the deal as they are basically unstoppable counters to an already punishing discard package. Mystical Tutor is gone, so there really are no tricks involved here.

Lands is a deck I've tested against with Tsabo's Web to some interesting results. The problem is, a lot of folks aren't running Lands a lot where I play (or in any big event that I've played in recently) to warrant its inclusion. It works awesome - don't get me wrong - but it is certainly more of a meta call than anything else.

Extirpate is good in both of these match-ups and has become increasingly more effective against Vengevine-Survival variants. I have even begun thinking about shifting Faerie back into the main to help contend a little more easily with those decks Game One as opposed to accepting a little more difficult match. Faerie serves multiple purposes, so it just might not be a bad idea to whisk him back into the main and see how it works. I've been doing some extensive research on The Source notating the number of people running into that deck (V.S.) and it has a very strong Game One against most decks in the format, due in large part to the overwhelming nature of the deck's speed and unexpectedness.

I tested against Vengevine Survival because the deck is getting popular here.
It's really fast! Faerie probably works well against them,but Extirpate works woders!
Anyways game 1 is really tough because they are really fast, but if you see a Noble Hierarch on the table turn one you must kill it!

Which should be "do-able" if you play 3 Deathmark + 4 Innocent Blood :)
And even if you don't have that, you can still try a Cabal Therapy on Survival on turn 1. If not for any of those solutions, duress could also help.

I should test this matchup, because on the paper, i am not very scared playing TheGate against VengevineSurvival :)
...this is ofcourse as long as u can prevent Iona....
Iona hitting the board without having an active Dystopia, that is kind´a game over i guess....
But post-board, you also have Needle, Extirpate and Dystopia. Is this really such a hard matchup ?!

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Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411

Which should be "do-able" if you play 3 Deathmark + 4 Innocent Blood :)
And even if you don't have that, you can still try a Cabal Therapy on Survival on turn 1. If not for any of those solutions, duress could also help.

I should test this matchup, because on the paper, i am not very scared playing TheGate against VengevineSurvival :)
...this is ofcourse as long as u can prevent Iona....
Iona hitting the board without having an active Dystopia, that is kind´a game over i guess....
But post-board, you also have Needle, Extirpate and Dystopia. Is this really such a hard matchup ?!

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When I sided I didn't board in Needles because I didn't know what to cut! Extirpate and Dystopia seemed enough. But obviously Needle on Survival is a good call.

Anyways no, it isn't a bad MU. Game 1 they can be really fast, that's it. Game 2 with SB cards it's much easier.

I played another 20-man tournament today, and sure thing i played TheGate :)
Here is a quick summary:

Opponent 1 : Belcher
I know the guy who is playing it. He is a really good player AND has the "drawskill". He wins the diceroll, kills me first turn with a belcher. Game 2 he wins by turn 3, even though i had him discard a belcher. Why? Well, he had another one in his hand :)
0-2

Opponent 2 : Zoo
Hard match, but with all my removal i can finish him off game 1 with a Persecutor. Game 2 i am flooded and he just beats me to death with Nacatl. Game 3 is a close call, but i can manage to win it with double Bitterblossom.
2-1

Opponent 3 : Aggro Loam (Confidant, Loam, Knight of the Reliquary, Countryside Crusher)
Game 1 is a close call in which i can get him down to 3 life while i am at 5. Too bad he has a Maze of Ith which disables whatever i want my Jitte on. I can't handle the lifeloss from Bitterblossom and am really pissed off. Game 2 i get my Leylines and Faeries in. I start, put Leyline of the Void, Swamp on the table and cast Duress. After that, i drew 7 lands and lost to triple Goyf. This was hilarious - in a bad way.
0-2

Opponent 4 : Raffinity
I was really scared of this matchup, but my opponent is new to Legacy (and i think kinda new to Magic in general). There is not much to say about this besides that i won because of his many mis-plays :). If a good player plays Raffinity, i think TheGate has zero chance.
2-1

Opponent 5 : Merfolk
Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord -> is that enough explanation :D ?
In all seriousness, game 1 i was screwed and game 2 he was so epic fast that i could not catch up.
0-2

So i lost 3 games and won 2 games. Maybe it's me, but summing it up i had 2-2, 2-2 and 2-3. This were the last 3 tournaments. So i allways placed somewhere in the middle. I currently think about changing the deck in a manner, that it won't be TheGate anymore. After playing it in 3 tournaments and countless rounds on MWS, i see the potential and the upsides this deck has, but it is too inconsistent in my opinion. You just draw and hope for the best. You have allmost no business on your opponents turns. I can't really point the finger at what the problem is, but i don't feel like TheGate is that much of an over-the-top deck :) Its kinda fun to play (when you are not screwed or flooded) but it has not much tricks going on. I feel like i need tricks, something "imbalanced" that just hits your opponent in the face but thats a personal thing.....

Has anyone had the unfortunate experience of flipping over a Spinning Darkness with Dark Confidant? Do you side Bob out for the matches that Darkness comes in for? I've been thinking about boarding Soul Reap as a Deathmark replacement...

Soul Reap sounds really bad on the paper. I see no advantage over Diabolic Edict or Smother or Doom Blade or .....
Also i really don't get how destroying a "non-green" creature is a replacement for "destroy a green or white creature" in today's legacy...
Read Hollywood's starting post about Deathmark. If ever, go for the other removal options i stated before. I personally would not want to miss Deathmark though. Hell, i even considered playing a fourth main :)

The problem "bob+spinning darkness" has never happened to me in practice, and even if it happens, its "only" a loose of 3 life after having played it, which is acceptable. Versus Zoo you could board out confidant for Spinning Darkness, in all other matchups (except burn ofcourse) i would never board out Confidant. He is a beater which provides card-advantage and as long as you can get a Jitte or a Nighthawk on the table, the loss of life is close to irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411

Soul Reap sounds really bad on the paper. I see no advantage over Diabolic Edict or Smother or Doom Blade or .....
Also i really don't get how destroying a "non-green" creature is a replacement for "destroy a green or white creature" in today's legacy...
Read Hollywood's starting post about Deathmark. If ever, go for the other removal options i stated before. I personally would not want to miss Deathmark though. Hell, i even considered playing a fourth main :)

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I suppose I wasn't clear. What I meant was that Soul Reap might be a good card to board in for Deathmark in the match-ups where it would be a dead card. Of course if they have no green or white creatures, then 'non-green' is not an issue. Also, it's targeted removal unlike Diabolic Edict and has more flexibility than either Smother or Doom Blade. Your suggestion would leave me helpless against anything Red, Blue, Black or cmc greater than 3, whereas a MB/SB combination of Deathmark and Soul Reap hits every creature possible.

I can't think of many creatures in Legacy that smother would not hit, aside from those with shroud, which Soul Reap won't hit either.
Give me some examples of creatures that are played often and cost more than 3 mana :)

Sorry to say, but I'm dropping this deck. It's too limited.
I will get back to my Blue lists that don't lose to topdecked cards.

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Originally Posted by pippo84

Sorry to say, but I'm dropping this deck. It's too limited.
I will get back to my Blue lists that don't lose to topdecked cards.

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That is an epic problem i don't like about TheGate too :D

@Hollywood:
I was wondering how you were going about switching to MD Faerie Macabre. Apparently Survival just did really well, so we need to prepped for VV's.

So far I've been quite pleased with how Vendetta worked out, although my first tournament with it ended in a 1/4/0 disaster.
My opponents were Merfolk (twice), Goblins, Bant Survival and UGR Faeries... I think I just made too many mistakes in boarding as well as in playing.

Well, in my Opinion double Merfolk + Goblins is a really bad pairing :/

How did the Bant Survival matchup go? Can you report a bit on that match?

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Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411

Well, in my Opinion double Merfolk + Goblins is a really bad pairing :/

How did the Bant Survival matchup go? Can you report a bit on that match?

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How can you say that these are bad pairings?

This deck is designed to beat aggro. It sucks against control and combo. I would play this deck all day long with those MU's!!

But as I already said I dropped the deck yesterday..

With 4 Duress, 3 Hymn to Tourach and 3 Cabal Therapy (and also Bitterblossom) i would not say that this deck sucks versus control. I allways felt like the control matchups are mostly good for me.
Versus combo you have to mulligan UNTIL you get at least a Duress in your opening hand, then it is "do-able".
Aggro is not in all cases a good matchup. Getting swarmed (like Goblins and Merfolk tend to do) is not an easy thing to deal with.
At the moment, there are only 4 matchups that i consider bad from the experience i have and those are:
Merfolk - if he speeds out and swarms you
Goblins - see Merfolk
Belcher - It is just too fast and can win, even if you get out keyspells, IF he top-decks 'em again.
Tendrils - Without mindbreak trap in the sideboard, i don't know how to beat this deck :/

I think all other matchups are winnable and at worst some are hard.

My list from the weekend:
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Bitterblossom

2 Cabal Therapy
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Vendetta
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Wasteland
18 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Duress
3 Leyline of the Void
4 Spinning Darkness (I'm NEVER going to cut it!)
3 Oblivion Stone (sloooow - but there's not much else left)
3 Pithing Needle

Against Bant...
Despite a 1st turn Inquisition (taking Retainers over Noble) he gets down Survival (topdeck). He Swords my Confidant and I can't handle his creatures. A fat, double-striking rhino seals the deal for him, because don't see any more removal.
Game 2 is ended by a turn three Iona, that I had unfortunately hit with my turn 2 Hymn... :(

Btw, this was the only match, that went 0-2 against me. The last one (Faeries) I won 2-0 and against each of the tribals I went 1-2 in the end.
This actually makes me feel like I should have won at least one more round.

Does this mean you lost all matches except Faeries?
I dont really understand what you mean by "stole game 1 or game 2" :) Does it mean you have gone 1-2 versus all those decks?

Hollywood, If I'm reading the SCG results right, it appears you went 4-3-drop. Care to actually address this now, or are we still playing head-in-the-sand?

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Honestly, this deck is good in a lot of categories, but not really great at anything. It isn't as fast or agressive as Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk, Elves, Dredge, Combo, etc, nor can it protect itself or establish board position as well as Lands, Countertop, Blue anything, or Stax. Explain to me what the Gate does better than any of Legacy's leading archetypes?

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4-3-drop reminds me of all the results i had so far :/ (except that i never drop, i'm in for the fun :P )
Would be really nice if you could give us a quick resumee of what you were playing against, which sideboard you chose and why you did.....so...mediocre.

Btw @ Esskay: can you give me link to the tournament? Google doesn't like me which means i did not find anything....