[Deck] Dragon Stompy

I keep trying different things out in my list and right now have cut the Moltensteels, Hellriders, and Yetis for 4x Flametongue Kavu, 4x RPD, and 1x Anger. I've found that I've really liked having the Kavus against the more creature-based decks right now like Maverick and Stoneblade. For some reason I just seem to like RPD more than Moltensteel. The life loss from Moltensteel has lost me games, so I'm liking it less and less as I go. Anger I've wanted to try for a while as it seems pretty good with a Jitte and just running into combat naked. Next turn hasty Flametongue Kavu?:smile:

I tried my "reliable" list (I describe it on the previous page) on the tournament. I finally played with 10 Mountains, 4 Trinis and 7 Moons main. Plus a Blood Moon sb. The full-foul package of hate.

Arc-slogger, Lord, Jaya, Jitte just kicked ass in each game, whether it was vs monocolored decks or decks an early Moon could handle (if I played first and no basic was fetched).

I beat Merfolk 2-0, and then we played another one and won that too. He played blue-white but I got him. Moon, Slogger and Lord were beasts. Those 2 fatsos cleared the board, once in each of the 2 games.

Game 2 I lost 1-2 vs Thopter - Sword of the Meek deck...and that was close. On the game I won, he Chilled me 2nd turn:)

Game 3 I won 2-0 vs doomsday combo. Highlight: he silences me for two rounds, but I keep leveling kargan dragonlord, who makes the kill. Next game I resolved a trini and a chalice, and all went well.

Game 4 I'd probably win 2-1 vs white-endless-life-deck. We were 1-1, an third game it ended a tie...the time was up. Jaya could burn him before he'd do the Nomads En-kor - Task Force - gain life card combo, if we had a couple more rounds. But the time was up and I had to leave. So just because I liked the concept of his deck, and maybe because I had delayed him a little, I gave him game 3, wishing him good luck!

(Game 5 I was gone)

More highlights:

- Revokers and other artifacts ignoring Chill.
- Early Trinispheres making the game slow just for the one-side (not mine:) and without the anxiety of getting hellbent with trini connected.
- Board control cards -that can deal fast dmg too, 2 in 1. (Sloggers, Lords, Jayas, Jittes)
- Just 2 Revokers main for the first game, 4 for the second if needed.

Missplays:

- Attacking with Jaya and level 0 Kargan, when Merfolk's board was clear, but he had charged up Vials.

- Not attacking Tezzeret with Revoker and Magus because he had a 5-5 artifact as a bodyguard. Notice here that my Revoker was disabling Thopter Foundry, but I had no other choice, I should have attacked, losing Revoker and Magus slowing down Tezzeret. He didn't have sword of the Meek yet.

- Not checking if the life-gain guy would lose by library death first, even though he had 500,000 life! He did play fetchlands..

Maybe I'll edit this post, to add more play mistakes, highlights, and sideboard choices if I remember any.

I was happy, my list worked well. And I had fun. I had the feeling I could even win the tournament, packing all those large guys that bombed the board or the opponent!

Zupponn: I'm really curious about the games that you lost due to Moltensteel's cost.

Please tell me, did that happen when you had to cast a second one?

Just one Moltensteel in the entire deck has been working very well for me!
Plus 2 Kargan Dragonlords.

I had Ancient Tomb out and was using it to cast Moltensteel and Trinisphere, while my Chalice got Dazed, falling to 10 life. Moltensteel ate a piece of removal and Snapcaster and maybe another creature beat me down before I could recover. I believe that Force took out my second creature. Just not having those extra couple of turns to draw something relevant felt bad IMO.

Getting caught up on the thread.

It doesn't look like anyone is testing sword of war and peace since I was touting it a while ago. I'm surprised, seeing as how pro-white is more relevant than ever and the pro-red is better due to RU(G) Delver/burn popularity.

Another fellow was talking about just making the fastest DS deck possible. I also haven't seen much Priest of Urabrask in recent posts.

I'm going to modify my list so I won't bother posting but I'll give my 2cents. I'm not a fan of werewolves or other ambitiously costed 4/5CMC "bombs" that aren't really that reliable or great. DS is tricky enough (especially hellbent) without also having to pay that your opponent lets it flip. Kruin Outlaw could have been a different story had it costed 2R.
I'm torn on moltensteel dragon vs rakdos pit dragon.
For me, it's not just about having 4 toughness to survive bolt. If I don't play rakdos pit dragon I'm likely to not want to play gathan raiders either. Gathan raiders are so good in the hellbent list you might as well run rakdos pit dragon.
Even with Moltensteel, not having gathan raiders makes me concerned about the beef needed to seal the deal.

With DS, I honestly feel that if you're not running seething song and you're running lord of shatterskull pass you're doing it wrong if you are able to level him up to 6. Also, do you really find yourself having so many threats that the werewolf's buff adds that much damage? Given their equal vulnerability, questionable flipping nature at their CMC, and their cmc in general, I just feel other options are better.
DS wants to finish games quickly. It quickly runs out of gas with its abominable card disadvantage and lack of threat density (admit it, a wasteland on your tomb or saccing your City of Traitors has cost you games more than once).


Obviously, Priest of Urabrask is not a scary creature. However, I feel that it supports what Dragon Stompy wants to do, which is apply pressure as fast as possible. Plus, it's the nuts with equipment (meaning being able to cast/equip faster).

Captain obvious here, but in the early game you want to play a lockpiece and then win before they can recover. I'm pretty comfortable saying that if they can answer the lockpiece and your threats you're likely going to lose. DS only survives in the long game if they get lucky topdecks post board.

Priest of Urabrask and Sword of War and Peace have been more than amazing.
Trinishpere has always been a topic of conversation but I'm a huge advocate. I've rode a couple of priests and a magus of the moon under trinisphere to victory many times. Sowp gives us relevant protection and perhaps the most Dragon Stompy oriented triggered ability yet. Swinging for 10 with a magus of the moon while they have a fist full of cards will make a believer out of anyone.
The priests get more bodies on the field without slowing down the resolution of important lock bombs or other threats like gathan raiders. Let's say they answer your magus of the moon or gathan raiders. It's still easy to get a 2-4-6-maybe 8 damage in with that priest.

Dragon Stompy needs to race. There are just too many situations that exist in Legacy that will make a Dragon Stompy player scoop.
Unfortunately, I hate to say that going second is a major blow to this deck. They say that if the die roll is so important, then the deck has bad design. I believe this is true and displays Dragon Stompy's swingy nature. This deck isn't for the meek if you're not comfortable gambling on the G1 roll or mulliganing often if needed.

Sorry for the rambling nature. It tends to happen when I don't get to talk about Dragon Stompy for too long.

Quality locks:
Blood Moon
Magus of the Moon
Chalice of the Void
Trinisphere

Super explosive:
Sword of War and Piece
Priest of Urabrask
Gathan Raiders
Rakdos Pit Dragon

Flex:
Phyrexian Revoker (great in my meta)

That's what works for me.

Keep it up. Love this deck. Excited for a 3CMC (3 or 2R) creature to be printed with some kind of lock built it or ridiculously power creeped, as always.

Have fun,

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Originally Posted by Zupponn

I had Ancient Tomb out and was using it to cast Moltensteel and Trinisphere, while my Chalice got Dazed, falling to 10 life. Moltensteel ate a piece of removal and Snapcaster and maybe another creature beat me down before I could recover. I believe that Force took out my second creature. Just not having those extra couple of turns to draw something relevant felt bad IMO.

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That's one match:) If he didn't have that removal, you'd probably be amazed with this dragon. One bad thing is that the casting cost's life loss works against the amount of pump you can give, but again, he's a stable 4/4 flying firebreathing beater.

@ Octopusman: I do like your idea, and I haven't tested it. The current metagame seems suitable for sword of war and peace... My problems are:
1) I do not intend to give $120 for 3 swords..(although I can test it on workstation, I enjoy it more when I test lists I can actually play in a tournie).
2) I want to play things that are always (or almost always) useful, like Jitte. The swords give protection against certain colors. What if you play against Merfolk or The Gate?
However you have made me curious and so I will test before I say more.

How many swords do you play?..I'm guessing about 3-4?

I like Lord of Shatterskull Pass , and not because of his ulti. I like him because of his 6 toughness that is a lot better that 5 toughness imho. He can't be dismembered and the level up ability compensates for the poor topdeck mode of the deck (you can always lvl him up if you topdeck like shit). If you topdeck good he still is an excellent defender-attacker with just a single level-up.

If you play Priest of Urabrask, then yes, equipments seem like a good solution. I had tried priest along with a couple Phyrexian Metamorphs, which can copy him and let you play one more free spell if you play them both. But I didn't try equipment with that build, I should have.
Try adding 2-3 Metamorphs in the Revoker slots, and leave 2-3 Revos SB.

I got a little bored with hellbent's instability. If I were you I'd play 3 RPDs and a single Moltensteel.

I'd like to see your sideboard if you please.

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Originally Posted by 0dysseus

How many swords do you play?..I'm guessing about 3-4?

I'd like to see your sideboard if you please.

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I think 4 is definitely too many. I generally like having a equipment every 2 out of 3 games or so. I run 2 sword of war and peace and 1 jitte.
To be honest, I can get frustrated with equipment because by the time you cast it and pay for the equip cost they can remove the creature and set you way back. I've also had a sowp on the table and no creature when just dropping one and connecting once would have sealed the deal.

Like I said, my curve stays pretty low, only going into 4CMC for the pit dragons, but I am kind of 3CMC heavy. I don't run seething song (it's difficult to then cast a three cmc spell and a two cmc spell turn one since I don't have a lot of two drops besides chalice, 1 jitte, and usually a few revokers). Also, since I generally plan on having one of my sol lands wasted or getting manascrewed, I can't rely on the turn 2 seething song + 1 mana into two 3cmc threats.

With all of the accel and the priests I definitely want to see one every game. However, I generally never want to see two and therefore I know it's not realistic to try to see it every game in a deck with no card advantage or brainstorms+shuffle.

If I do see two equipment, there's equal chance it will be a sword and a jitte.
Casting equipment off of priests feels good because it usually means you are able to attack while equipped as soon as summoning sickness wears off. In less bursty decks or SMF decks, sometimes they don't see the equipment cheated into play until a turn and a half after the creature hits play (though often it's a batter skull which is a different story).

Our mana goes from either 3 to 5, 2 to 4, 3(sol+guide) to 4, 2 to 3, or 3 to 4. Sometimes a wasteland can put you at a dreaded 2 or 1 mana.
The spells in your hand should enable decent plays based on what the mana situation is going to look like. I'm afraid that I feel Dragon Stompy isn't just about spamming 3cmc spell. Since we need to make the most of each card, you must eke out as much value per turn as possible.
Personally I just feel that 3, 3cmc, equips is too much since I haven't been running a full set of revokers as of late.
I quit playing arc-slogger (who is a champ) when I stopped playing seething song lists. Seething Song can kind of help enable hellbent, which I mentioned is still my preferred approach, however it can be replaced by priests which provide a body.

I try to make the deck as consistent as I can. I feel that dropping a sol, mox, song, and then an arc slogger or batter skull is kind of asking for it. That leaves you with a couple of cards and if they follow up with a plow + wasteland or answered slogger with a force of will that's pretty much gg.

Sure they can force your magus of the moon, trinisphere, or sword of war and peace cast off of a priest, but they would have done that anyway and it likely leads to some beats plus your next play is likely getting through. Maybe next turn you're dropping a jitte, equipping and swinging which puts you way ahead when it's as early as turn 2.

Sorry for not being more elaborate - I should be working.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think. I already know how good sowp is under magus/3sphere. :)

It is expensive. I picked up 2 for cheap a while ago and didn't notice they had gone up in price so much. Standard is to blame, I guess. Kind of silly that it'll probably not go down a lot once it rotates even though it's pretty unanimously the "worst" sword. Like I said, it just happens to work great in this deck.

The protections are gravy that stop most of the format's removal. I'm also not concerned with life gain since I'm likely going for hellbent. The real power lies in the fact that since you can power it out early while they're helpless, it just ends games. A non-buffed hellbent pit dragon can easily swing for 22.

I just feel that swinging for 10 with a gathan raiders or magus of the moon early should be done if the option is available.


I can't remember my exact board right now. I can tell you that there is affinity and mud in my area and therefore I was running shattering spree (great with priest ;) since it can push through chalice. Tribal in many forms is also around so I was running firespout and ratchet bomb for them to overextend into (though not so great against goblins). Tribal always tended to be a longer game if I didn't get swarmed by turn 4 while I look stupid with my 1 threat.
I know I have at least 2 Anarchy in the board but I'd probably add more these days.
I'll have to double check the rest but I know my preferred grave hate had been Crypt. However, since I also pilot dredge I know Crypt isn't that scary but it buys more turns than cage and I'm against cmc1 cards in the board for the most part anyway (spree is an exception since you can put copies on the stack). I have lost to Dredge with Dragon Stompy more than once and I'm not sure the best way to combat it outside of fringe answers like Silent Arbiter (and then they ancient grudge or natures claim him anyway). However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to run blasts to deal with Delvers...
The problem is, we're short on cards in this deck already. It's stupid not to run chalices against delver.dec however if you're on the draw, you kind of look like an ass holding chalice and not a blast. With only 4 chalice effect, your odds of finding one in your opening 7 isn't that great. You can run chalices and blasts to increase your chances of not bending over to an early delver but then you are potentially shutting off even more cards.

Not much that hasn't already been said.

My sideboard was mainly built to:
Sweep white permanents
Sweep token swarms
Blow up as many artifacts as possible with 1 card
Grave Hate
And sometimes risk killing my own creatures to Sweep with Firespout


Problems I would love to have answers for (in color):
Reanimator
Emrakul.dec
Progenitus
Hive Mind (although I'm not too worried about facing this deck these days but it is an autoloss - Sundial is stupid, kthx)
Liliana(?)
Snapcaster advantage
Moat

The above either win instantly or we just can't keep up against the reusable advantage they get over the course of multiple turns.
Although I did race and win vs. a progenitus with sword of war and peace ;)

Topor orb? meh
Chaos Warp? meh (not like you're casting it on iona, emrakul, or prog anyway).

Glad to see there's activity here. Sometimes this thread is dead for long periods of time when the meta isn't in a position for this deck to exploit.
I wish that moon hosed dryad arbor but most people aren't going for the natural order these days it seems.

@ Octopus:

Welcome back! I had wondered where you scampered off too.

In regards to some of your suggestions:

@ Sword of War and Peace: This seems like a fairly relevant sword for us to be running as its static defenses are what the field is main streaming right now. I've no particular issue with this. In fact, I may even test it out in the Jitte slot of my deck. But seriously? Sword is THAT high? Damn. It is the worst sword of the lot and as such I never even bothered getting one. -.-'

@ Gathan Raiders/Rakdos Pit Dragon: I'm not quite sure why you're so confident in Gathan as a creature. A 3/3 body is useless and a 5/5 may as well be considered useless with the prevalence of equipment. Even running your own equipment doesn't negate the power of Stoneforge decks.
The problem I have with RPD, as well as Hellbent is that it forces you to run weaker mid-late game cards in the hopes you'll get nuts draws in the opening 7. Sure, Opening up into solid acceleration that lets you empty your hand and throw a Hellbent RPD on the field is just swell, but in reality our deck rarely treats us this well. The fact of the matter with this deck is that most opponents, especially in this meta, are able to survive those initial few turns and then what are we left with but subpar creatures and acceleration? I'm not denying the strengths of RPD in those initial turns but to me he is a card that plays somewhat like Belcher does: Its nuts assuming you're opponent doesn't have 1 of many answers to it.
Moltensteel, although he can't push through quite so much damage, is a much safer card choice. At 4 colorless he can be much more readily cast than 2RR. He already has Flying, is above burn range, and can still fire breathe. Not to mention being an Artifact means he can't be answered by Mom. I know you don't think 1 toughness is entirely relevant, but considering how popular UR Delver has become yes, it is, because now to kill of a Moltensteel they either have to chump block/burn or use 2 burns to get rid of him. They can't just Bolt or throw a Delver at him like they might with RPD.

Ultimately our arguments just boils down to playstyles. Yes, I know, the decks design almost forces you to give up the mid-late game but its my opinion that you don't have to make that sacrifice. I've tailored my deck towards having a much stronger mid-late game while not sacrificing early game efficiency. I've still got much testing to perform with my lists but since doing such I've noticed my win ratio increase dramatically.
No, I'm not going to advocate everyone here switch to an artifact-based list like myself. I've been posting decklists and in-depth breakdowns to try and provide the pros and cons of my strategies. However, I will say that it is important to not just blithely assume based on past experience that this deck is always going to be strongest when using stupid acceleration in the early game. Sometimes it can be quite conveinant when you get past those initial turns and don't automatically enter into topdeck mode to shuffle through all the crap acceleration and lock pieces to find those few good creatures.

@ SB:
Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to Emrakul (Pehaps run a Conquering Manticore for funsies! Jk).
Pyroblast is what I use to great success against Snapcaster.
Obviously you know about Anarchy, Reds only real answer to any type of enchantment destruction. I'm assuming its for Enchantress that you're trying to deal with Moat, but perhaps if you wanted to stall the opponent out maybe Gravity Sphere? The card is essentially worthless but if the deck isn't Enchantress then this hurts them as much as it hurts you. :p

On a separate note, I was browsing through some old sets and found a couple cards. Figured I'd post this just for fun, not feigning they'll be competitive: Combust, Defender of Chaos, Omen of Fire.

Forlorn Egoist

Omen of fire is hilarious.

I hear you loud and clear regarding the hellbent points.
I honestly feel that from personal experience that the longer the game goes on, the less likely I am to stabilize and win. Maybe this is because I'm hellbent. I've just always had a ton of success with the gathan raiders and the pit dragon.
I'm a little concerned about not being able to imprint the molten steel but if I replace main deck revokers with something red it will balance out, I suppose.

I'll try messing around with that. Don't get me wrong - I totally acknowledge the importance of 4 toughness over 3. I used to play Serendib Efreet :tongue:.

I'd like to try molten steel. Being an artifact makes me feel it's really fragile though. It's not like I'll have the revokers for the qasali pride mages, it seems.

Hmmm. Something to think about. I do love combust as well. Although the store is always out of them and I've been too lazy to order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Forlorn Egoist

Not to mention being an Artifact means [Moltensteel Dragon] can't be answered by Mom.

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What? Moltensteel Dragon is definitely red.

I'm just so disappointed in Rados Pit Dragon's three toughness. It's balanced though.

Moltensteel scares the crap out of me because there are many games where I do a tremendous amount of damage to myself with Ancient Tombs as it is.

If you use one tomb you're at 14 or lower to cast this one creature. Seems so risky.

How aggressive do you get with the pump? Let's say you've cast it on turn 2. On turn three you're at 12 life let's say (Turn 1 Tomb plus mox or guide for a lock piece). On Turn three, do you pump it? If so, by how much?
Assume your opponent is around 18-20 based on fetching.

What if you know they're playing lightning bolt or price of progress?

If you pump it by 6, that puts you at 6 and then at 8-10. You could swing for the kill if they're below 10 on turn 4.

It's funny how many decisions it makes you make. If you pump it by a lot and they destroy it, you just f'ed yourself.

Even without molten steel I've been so low on life I couldn't cast spells due to tomb.

Decisions decisions. Oh well a playset of foil molten steel is like $8. :)

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

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Originally Posted by bganns

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

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I like it. If you're getting whipped by stoneforge.dec maybe you could justify it. Are you? It's fantastic that it's free. If they got a batterskull that's a big gain. Decent for hitting vial against random folk?
It's great that it's for game 2 and 3 because they're likely fetching into islands once they know the deck so they're less likely to be mountains.

I would like to see a sideboard that focuses on beating our difficult match ups in a major tournament. It seems we're decently poised against the top decks already. Make those matchups better or try I make the miserable ones better? Not rhetorical. Appreciate thoughts on maybe multiple sideboards and reasons why you'd run one over another based on recent results. I don't have the time to put work into it now.

Maybe boil is good right now too.

Again, I think I'd still like to see a sideboard that prevents or can answer something like Iona on red. I don't think cage is the answer.


What funny? I think they'll have Karakas in FTV Realms because all of the best reanimator targets lately have been Emmy, Iona, Elesh, Jin. Coincidence?
EDH rejoice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bganns

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

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Free is always good and it dodges chalice but I think with G/W Maverick taking up such a large chunk of the meta Shattering Spree is still the best choice.

As mentioned though if you are up against a lot of Stoneblade then by all means side that in.

Against Ionna i can see only two options: remove her from the grave in response or as son as she get there (Faerie, Tormod etc) or have a Torpor Orb in the field.

I don't believe Topor Orb prevents Iona's naming of a color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heroicraptor

What? Moltensteel Dragon is definitely red.

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Yeah.... you're totally right. At the time I was thinking about Etched Champion when I was writing and somehow got it in my head the same applied to Moltensteel. You are 100% right. Thank you for catching that.

@ Torpor Orb vs Iona, Shield of Emeria:

The Orb has no affect on Iona's ability because its a static ability which creates a replacement effect. Her ability says "As Iona ETB," not "When Iona ETB." Thus Orb doesn't affect Iona's ability.

Forlorn Egoist

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

@ SB:
Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to Emrakul (Pehaps run a Conquering Manticore for funsies! Jk).
Pyroblast is what I use to great success against Snapcaster.
Obviously you know about Anarchy, Reds only real answer to any type of enchantment destruction. I'm assuming its for Enchantress that you're trying to deal with Moat, but perhaps if you wanted to stall the opponent out maybe Gravity Sphere? The card is essentially worthless but if the deck isn't Enchantress then this hurts them as much as it hurts you. :p

On a separate note, I was browsing through some old sets and found a couple cards. Figured I'd post this just for fun, not feigning they'll be competitive: Combust, Defender of Chaos, Omen of Fire.

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I think Chaos Warp is worth considering for SB space. It works as a solution to Moat but also can take out Planeswalkers, Equipment or Creatures.

I'd consider Sulfur Elemental before Defender of Chaos. Nuking Mother of Runes and Lingering Souls seems like a bigger perk than First Strike.

I like stingscourger for answering emrakul but it's worthless against iona and progenitus.

I think against show and tell and/or hive mind we don't have much choice but to run blasts.
What do we lose against show and tell / hive mind if we take out chalices? I don't think anything, really.
Would you leave in trinisphere or take it out? It might delay them a turn if they can't pact the same turn they drop hive mind, but that's probably not enough to race them.

I feel it's a losing situation vs. reanimator as well. A chalice at 1 slows them down a tiny bit if you're lucky enough to not have it countered or otherwise if you're lucky enough to land it before their entomb/careful study/reanimate. They've got other ways to dump cards in the gave + exhume.
Moons hurt them but just like the above example, a lot has to do with the die roll and if they're holding counters.

Tough problems to solve in mono-red. Still thinking...

Okay, so I edited my post with these suggestions but then the effing thing timed out so here I am.

As for dealing with Iona, GY hate (Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus/Faerie Macabre) are probably the best answer. You could also rely on Surgical Extraction to Exile her once she hits the GY. Arena of the Ancients is a pretty nice answer to Legends although it won't negate Iona by any means it can at least stall until you dig for an answer. You could also take her out with Phyrexian Metamorph.

For uncompetitive but funny suggestions: Crooked Scales, Duplicant is unrealistically expensive but at least it lets you retain the creature. Noetic Scales would do the job as well considering all their Reanimated creatures generally have power greater than 7, of course, you also have to be aware of your own hand total. Of course, if they never have blockers then you only need 1 creature thats attacking. Predator, Flagship also answers a great deal of annoying creatures with Flying including Emrakul and Iona.

I'm still working on the Proggy answer but as he isn't in my meta it'll take some time.

Edit: Y'know, Noetic Scales actually isn't quite so horrible a card as it answers KotR, Emrakul, Progenitus, Iona, nearly all Reanimator creatures, and whathaveyou. I'm not saying I'll plan on using it as my metas don't really have NO/Reanimator/S&T/SA decks, however, I could see it as being a viable card to playtest.

Forlorn Egoist

Hmmm. Can't metamorp answer progenitus as well?

Looks like metamorph is the way to go.