[DTB] Blade Control

Here's my current UWR version, if anyone cares:

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Geist

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Path to Exile
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight's Errant
(38)

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Island
3 Wasteland
(23)

SB:
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Disenchant
2 Wrath of God
1 Path to Exile
3 meta slots
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Please let me know what you think are the most debatable choices and why.

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Originally Posted by Slime

Hi everyone,

I've been having lots of trouble in the past beating Maverick and Death & Taxes with blade control. My most recent try to improve those matchups without giving up to much in the others involves Humility with Enlightened Tutor.

I've been cutting down the creatures to the bare minimum of 4 Stoneforge Mystics and 4 Snapcaster Mage while playing 1-2 Enlightened Tutor, a Humility and a Engineered Explosives in the main.

So far, I'm very happy with this configuration, as turn 2 mystic into turn 3 batterskull + tutor into turn 4 humility is one of the few ways to completely dominated the Maverick matchup. Additionally, the Enlightened Tutors gives you the opportunity to run a silver bullet sideboard.

Has anyone else tested Humility/Enlightened Tutor in blade control and/or has any thoughts on this?

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Very clever, so Batterskull will become 5/5 and the token will stay on the board even if Batterskull becomes unattached. Sweet interaction.

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Originally Posted by klaus

Here's my current UWR version, if anyone cares:

...<list was here>...
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Please let me know what you think are the most debatable choices and why.

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Well there are a few small things that stick out to me...

For UWR I don't like the basic Mountain unless you're running Grim Lavamancer and are going to need red every turn. It's probably better as a Plateau or another Plains (for your WoG/Elspeth)

I've never liked 4 Jace, it makes you pretty heavy on the 4 drops and sometimes he just doesn't get there. I've been really happy with a 2 Jace/1 Elsepth, or a 2/2 split.

This also lets you get a slot or two for an additional Geist, SFM, or V.Clique.

Any particular reason for SoFaI over Umezawa's Jitte? If you're looking to suit up Geist and beat through ground dudes I think Feast and Famine is often better for that. Jitte will be a lot easier to trigger than SoFaI unless you run some more fliers than just the two Clique.

Love the EE and hard Counterspells.

So, I'm gonna start...

1. I wouldn't play four Jaces, in the early game he always gets pitched to force of will and later on, when you landed your jace, the second one rather should be a removal-spell or counter, imo
2. The Split between Geist and Clique is just fine, personally I only run 2 Cliques, additionally, I think the mana-hungry spells are a bit too many in your list...
3. Cutting on Stoneforge is a thing I also did and it works out
4. The Countersuite is a bit light, but adding a Counterspell is not the optimal choice given that manabase and 4 Spell Snares are not really needed
5. The removal suite is wonderful, one Path won't be drawn normally before the late game, where he shines and the lightning bolts give you a high amount of flexibility with snapcaster

As you see, I do agree on nearly all of your choices for this controllish UWR-build.

Thanks for your feedback guys.
You might be right about that Mountain - I guess I'll replace it with the 4th Tundra for a while and see whether I miss it.

So Jace #4 could be anything basically. I'm pretty sure Clique #3 would be my personal choice as well.

Are 4 plow effects enough for a W0G-less list? I also run 2 PtE, along with 3 SCM, and those PtE seldom are dead draws.

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Originally Posted by Slime

I'm playing Tormod's Crypt (Academy Ruins in the main), Canonist, Energy Flux and Seal of Cleansing in the board.

Are there any enlightened-tutorable bullets against control decks? (Stoneblade, BUG Landstill)?

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Not "Silver Bullets" as you might intend it, but SDT and Crucible both provide so much long-game value that they might be worth considering if you're already running the ETs (which I'm not sure is the best).

Many lists ran 1 Crucible in the sideboard even without the Enlightened Tutor. it has been really good in games that tend to go long. Seems like a natural addition to SB that do have the Tutor package.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slime

I'm playing Tormod's Crypt (Academy Ruins in the main), Canonist, Energy Flux and Seal of Cleansing in the board.

Are there any enlightened-tutorable bullets against control decks? (Stoneblade, BUG Landstill)?

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Energy flux seems a bit narrow, considering that affinity and stax decks (if you even manage to resolve tutor) see little play. Seal of cleansing is decent if you don't play oblivion ring MD (which you should, imo).

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Originally Posted by Slime

Are there any enlightened-tutorable bullets against control decks? (Stoneblade, BUG Landstill)?

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Tutor is inherently a poor strategy in these MU due to the CD it generates and the fact that your opponent is likely to have an answer to whatever you're gonna get (if only in the form of counters). Crucible is pretty decent as was mentionned, and B2B could surprise a BUG control player so it's worth a try (they typically run 0 basics).

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Originally Posted by anwei

Not "Silver Bullets" as you might intend it, but SDT and Crucible both provide so much long-game value that they might be worth considering if you're already running the ETs (which I'm not sure is the best).

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Imo, if you really want those in your 75 (which seems perfectly reasonable), they should be MD. It will save you SB space for real hate cards.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

Very clever, so Batterskull will become 5/5 and the token will stay on the board even if Batterskull becomes unattached. Sweet interaction.

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I don't like the whole 'tap out turns 2-4 getting your business out' plan. One peice of removal here upsets your whole stategy; meanwhile you're letting your opponent develop with no interaction (no removal, no counters), hoping that T4 Humility will work out for you.

Then, once Humilty is out there, you just neutered the rest of your creatures. Snapcaster, Spellstutters, Geist, Clique, Stoneforge, everything except Mishra's and Mutavaults (and your Germ). You're really resting your entire strategy on that early Batterskull.

Humility is a great card in decks designed to abuse it. I really don't think Stoneblade is one of them. And I don't think trying to be hyper-aggressive is the correct strategy against Maverick.

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Originally Posted by Stan

Are 4 plow effects enough for a W0G-less list? I also run 2 PtE, along with 3 SCM, and those PtE seldom are dead draws.

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I'm a big fan of Engineered Explosives. I run 2 MD, and 2 Wraths in the side.

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Originally Posted by matunos

I'm a big fan of Engineered Explosives. I run 2 MD, and 2 Wraths in the side.

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I'm a fan of EE myself - for the straight UW version I'd replace it with spot removal / Ponder however. The third color is crucial to make this card worth its money.

I ran my list yesterday with only 4 Stoneforge 2 Vendilion Clique as guys. I cut the second piece of equipment. While there were lots of times I got to go "Stoneforge Mystic, no search, go.", I didn't lose any games for lack of a second piece of equipment, nor did my first piece of equipment ever get blown up.

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Originally Posted by Anusien

I ran my list yesterday with only 4 Stoneforge 2 Vendilion Clique as guys. I cut the second piece of equipment. While there were lots of times I got to go "Stoneforge Mystic, no search, go.", I didn't lose any games for lack of a second piece of equipment, nor did my first piece of equipment ever get blown up.

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I can't see why you'd ever cut Snapcaster Mage.
Sure it's debatable whether 3 or 4 is the correct number.. There's no doubt he's become a core spell in many blue decks and Stoneblade is his perfect fit imo.

It'd be helpful to get a better understanding of your reasoning if you posted your list.
Would appreciate it.
Cheers,
Klaus

Counterbalance/Top is a much less conditional source of late-game advantage than Snapcaster Mage, and better in the mirror.

I'm thinking of running EE in either the MD or the SB (mainly to deal with 1 drops like Nimble Mongoose and Mother of Runes). However, I'm considering dropping a basic Island for like an Underground. I don't want to splash and I'm not interested in supporting a third color. The advantage being that I can fetch into 3 colors for EE if I need to, but the downside is that my mana base just got weaker. There's really not that many problem three drops in the format right now other than KotR and Liliana, but Legacy is a wide format and it might have its uses. Worth the downside?

Also, I think I've ultimately decided that it isn't worth it, but I was looking at Kira, Great Glass-Spinner (or Mother of Runes) as a possible way to protect Stoneforge (and equipment holders). It seems like everyone is gunning for SFM and she's losing some of her edge. It might just be that Spell Pierce is all around more useful.

Another card I've been looking at again is Spellstutter Sprite. I was one of the first to drop Spellstutter after the MM age, but now that one drops have finally re-established themselves in the format, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up a couple. The biggest problem (and the same problem I've always had with them) is that they are tempo negative. One drops like to get played on turn 1, Spellstutter can't come down until your turn 2. You can hit their topdecked one drops sure, but it still doesn't help your early game. Still though, Mongeese like to come down once threshold is hit...

Another thought I had was that I'm not convinced Vendilion Clique is as much the powerhouse that it once was. Looking at recent top 16's, the biggest reason I'd see for keeping them MD is the prevalence of Stoneforge. They tap SFM, cast Clique, and profit. However, it might be better to add more early game help so that we can reach our planeswalkers and a three drop sure isn't going to help against linear aggro and tempo plans. And then, assuming Clique is no longer worth the MD slot, is it then worth the SB slot? I'd be inclined to think so, but perhaps there are better bullets out there.

One last thing... Riptide Laboratory. Useful? I love it for it's cool factor, but realistically I think I can count the number of games I've used it on one hand. It might simply be better to shore up your colored sources or even run a miser Academy Ruins for either EE or equipment.

I totally agree with your sentiments on riptide lab. It's good on occasion, but postboard when you can rebuy crucible, crypt, EE, and equipment Academy Ruins might be the correct call. Being able to use riptide lab is good, but ridiculously mana intensive.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I'm thinking of running EE in either the MD or the SB (mainly to deal with 1 drops like Nimble Mongoose and Mother of Runes). However, I'm considering dropping a basic Island for like an Underground. I don't want to splash and I'm not interested in supporting a third color. The advantage being that I can fetch into 3 colors for EE if I need to, but the downside is that my mana base just got weaker. There's really not that many problem three drops in the format right now other than KotR and Liliana, but Legacy is a wide format and it might have its uses. Worth the downside?

Also, I think I've ultimately decided that it isn't worth it, but I was looking at Kira, Great Glass-Spinner (or Mother of Runes) as a possible way to protect Stoneforge (and equipment holders). It seems like everyone is gunning for SFM and she's losing some of her edge. It might just be that Spell Pierce is all around more useful.

Another card I've been looking at again is Spellstutter Sprite. I was one of the first to drop Spellstutter after the MM age, but now that one drops have finally re-established themselves in the format, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up a couple. The biggest problem (and the same problem I've always had with them) is that they are tempo negative. One drops like to get played on turn 1, Spellstutter can't come down until your turn 2. You can hit their topdecked one drops sure, but it still doesn't help your early game. Still though, Mongeese like to come down once threshold is hit...

Another thought I had was that I'm not convinced Vendilion Clique is as much the powerhouse that it once was. Looking at recent top 16's, the biggest reason I'd see for keeping them MD is the prevalence of Stoneforge. They tap SFM, cast Clique, and profit. However, it might be better to add more early game help so that we can reach our planeswalkers and a three drop sure isn't going to help against linear aggro and tempo plans. And then, assuming Clique is no longer worth the MD slot, is it then worth the SB slot? I'd be inclined to think so, but perhaps there are better bullets out there.

One last thing... Riptide Laboratory. Useful? I love it for it's cool factor, but realistically I think I can count the number of games I've used it on one hand. It might simply be better to shore up your colored sources or even run a miser Academy Ruins for either EE or equipment.

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I like EE for the same reason you mention: it can wipe out those cheap 1-2 drops (and the occasional 3 drop). I took them out when I took out the red splash, but I think that may have been a mistake even without the splash, given all the Mongooses and Delvers and whatnot out there. Anyway, I'm back on the red splash myself. And I have found more value from Academy Ruins (mostly from recycling EE) than I ever got with Riptide. (I also run Karakas, so I can cheaply bounce Geist/Clique, or opposing legends.)

If you're going to splash for the EE, though, I wouldn't recommend black. You can throw a Volcanic in and give yourself access to REB/Pyroblast in the board (even if you go without bolts/etc. in the main), or if you add a Tropical you can utilize Krosan Grip. Then again, I suppose with black you have Vindicate available.

I moved Vendilion to my SB, as I just wasn't getting the value that I wanted out of him in random matchups like I am with Geist, and I wanted to fit my EE back in. I don't know about the mirror; I still think Geist is preferable there. I think Vendilion can be of value against certain combo decks though, where all Geist provides there is a clock, and you can usually cheat out a Batterskull without worrying about removal (as long as you have enough mana left to counter/disrupt the combo, of course).

I've thought about Kira as well, having had so much trouble facing it in Merfolk. The downside is that it also hinders your ability to equip; though I suppose you can just equip twice (during which your target will be vulnerable). It's also somewhat limited... if you're running Geist, he has hexproof anyway, and other than him, most of your other creatures are expendable. Between Geist's immunity and your counters, I'm not sure Kira adds all that much in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I'm thinking of running EE in either the MD or the SB (mainly to deal with 1 drops like Nimble Mongoose and Mother of Runes). However, I'm considering dropping a basic Island for like an Underground. I don't want to splash and I'm not interested in supporting a third color. The advantage being that I can fetch into 3 colors for EE if I need to, but the downside is that my mana base just got weaker. There's really not that many problem three drops in the format right now other than KotR and Liliana, but Legacy is a wide format and it might have its uses. Worth the downside?

...

One last thing... Riptide Laboratory. Useful? I love it for it's cool factor, but realistically I think I can count the number of games I've used it on one hand. It might simply be better to shore up your colored sources or even run a miser Academy Ruins for either EE or equipment.

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EE is awsome, blows mothers and goose, also takes care of jitte/SoXX/Geist, I was playing 1 U.Sea and it was never a problem.
On Riptide I just think it is win more.. cut mine months ago.

Oh yeah, I always forget Kira messes up your own equipment. Mother of Runes is still somewhat of an option, but it's uses are limited to protecting SFM or clearing the way for Geist.

As far as EE, I chose Underground Sea because I didn't think one Volcanic was enough to support REB. The Black is marginally useful at least if I ever want to cast a mid-late game Surgical without the two life.

Do most people still run Wraths with EE? I think my current configuration is going to be 1 EE MD, 1 EE SB, 1 Wrath SB. EE hopefully clears out the resilient 1 drops and Swords/Path finishes everything else, but I still have a miser Wrath if I'm overrun.

As far as Geist vs Clique... I definitely prefer Clique. I think the flying body alone is relevant against more decks. Not to mention that it can 1-for-1 Mongoose. My thinking though is that neither might be that impressive MD. I'm running 3 Jace and 2 Elspeth and I think planeswalkers in general provide a better wincon.

At 3 cmc, Geist and Clique both occupy that awkward space where they are too slow to be protection, but not quite the power level of a consistent finisher. I may be wrong, and maybe some sort of pressure is just required at the 3 drop area, but more planeswalkers and more counters/removal seems like a stronger plan to me. If there were a strong W or U planewalker at 3 cmc... holy shit.

Also, I'm having trouble deciding when to side in SoFI/Jitte. SoFI would be great against RUG and they both are great against decks with Mother of Runes (although Jitte probably is better there). The problem is that I don't much want to go up to 3 equipment, even post-board, and both of those decks run big green dudes. Maybe against RUG, I can point my Plows at Goyf and rest assured that SoFI can handle everything else, but against Maverick, I can't imagine siding out my pro-Green sword.