[Deck] Vial Goblins

hi there guys, i'm planning to go to a big tournament this week end and i'm trying to put togheter a good list


4 waste
4 cavern
4 ports
11 mountain

4 lackey
4 matron
4 ringleader
4 warchief
2 chieftain
2 mwm
1 siege gang
1 krenko
1 murderous redcap
1 stingscourger
1 prospector (or chirurgeon)
1 tuk tuk

3 gempalm
4 vial
4 tarfire
1 pirokinesis
61

3 chalice
2 blood moon (or 1\1 split between magus)
4 faerie macabre
2 pyrokinesis
1 piledriver
1 sharpshooter
1 tuktuk
1 stingscourger

unfortunately i had very little time to play in last months and this is what i came up at the moment.

what i like:
-classic mana base, a lot of basics
-6 lords give us all the haste we need to win games out of nowhere
-2 mwm: he's too versatile and useful in many situations to play less than 2x
-2 finishers: krenko if i'm sure he will connect, otherwise i fetch sgc (i love kiki-jiki, but i'm not able to find room)
-murderous red cap is great in grindy MU since he potentially can be 4x1 (2+1 burn damage, 2 chumps)
-3 gempalm: free uncouterable removal (usual stuff) 3 is the minimum number imho
-1 pyrokinesis MD can take us out from bad situations many times
-faerie is fast, uncounterable and free, even if not powerful as other GY-hate cards (relic, tormod crypt, cage, rip, leyline..)

what i don't like or i'm not sure:
-61 MD
-no MD sharpshooter, only one in 75
-moons: they still worth their slot with the new rule? in wich MU you use them? what's your opinion on moons atm?
-chalice-tarfire nonbo: always hated it even if i have 6 non-tarfire removal spell after SB + sgc + redcap
-piledriver as SB card vs combo, what do u think?

other iteresting sb cards could be: thorn, sphere of resistance, needle, cage

thougts and suggestions are very apreciated

Quote:

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Originally Posted by egoblinsw

My reasoning is usually this: Against decks that Thalia/Thorn affects are good against, the clock is very important. Thalia doesn't completely shut them out of the game, it just buys us time. Therefore, a 2/1 is great.
Against decks where Blood Moon is good, it's often just GG. Therefore, any way we can make it more difficult to kill is worth it, because it locks them completely out of the game.

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It seems reasonable, thank you :smile::smile:

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what i like:
-classic mana base, a lot of basics
-6 lords give us all the haste we need to win games out of nowhere
-2 mwm: he's too versatile and useful in many situations to play less than 2x
-2 finishers: krenko if i'm sure he will connect, otherwise i fetch sgc (i love kiki-jiki, but i'm not able to find room)
-murderous red cap is great in grindy MU since he potentially can be 4x1 (2+1 burn damage, 2 chumps)
-3 gempalm: free uncouterable removal (usual stuff) 3 is the minimum number imho
-1 pyrokinesis MD can take us out from bad situations many times
-faerie is fast, uncounterable and free, even if not powerful as other GY-hate cards (relic, tormod crypt, cage, rip, leyline..)

what i don't like or i'm not sure:
-61 MD
-no MD sharpshooter, only one in 75
-moons: they still worth their slot with the new rule? in wich MU you use them? what's your opinion on moons atm?
-chalice-tarfire nonbo: always hated it even if i have 6 non-tarfire removal spell after SB + sgc + redcap
-piledriver as SB card vs combo, what do u think?

other iteresting sb cards could be: thorn, sphere of resistance, needle, cage

thougts and suggestions are very apreciated

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I don't think haste lords let you 'win games out of nowhere' when you have no deck slots for attackers (Piledriver/Rabblemaster). Neither are you playing pingers (Sharpshooter/Sparksmith) so the only creature that really needs the haste is Krenko. Ringleader has haste already and when you have 6 slots on goblins that all have haste themselves and give each other haste you are inevitably going to double up on this effect which has some pretty severe diminishing returns.

I don't think Redcap is necessarily a 'bad card' but if you want a 4-mana Goblin that deals targeted damage to creatures I think it's a significantly inferior Lightning Crafter.

After testing with KikiJiki for a while I think there are arguments that it's just better than siege gang (especially if you add lightning crafter).

From your maindeck I would
-1 Redcap
+1 Lightning Crafter

-1 Warchief/SGC
+1 Kiki Jiki

-1 Warchief
+1 Sharpshooter

-1 Gempalm/Warchief/Chieftain/MWM
+0

I would play Chirurgeon over Prospector.
This is not the exact goblin list that I would play in a tournament but I think that these small suggestions are improvements.

I don't think you want to bring in Chalice in the matchups where you want Tarfire, both because it stops you from casting your own one-drops (tarfire/vial) but also because it makes your Ringleaders worse in matchups where you want to be trading resources. An exception might be Elves, but even they still have GSZ -> Rec Sage.
Piledriver sucks as a SB card vs combo imo because aggro draws are generally too slow to beat combo without disruption, and all anti-combo sideboard cards you want to draw are not Goblins so they are nonbos with Piledriver. Unfortunately you are Mono R so you are limited in the anti-combo cards you can play but maybe some red blasts could be acceptable.

Hey Guys iam going tot a tournament this sunday and i wanna show up with the following list.
My meta is full off Grixis Delver, Elves, DenT, en other creature based decks

Any comments are welcome.

4 mountains
4 cavern of souls
4 wastelands
2 badlands
2 rishadan port
3 bloodstained mire
3 wooded foothills

4 aether vial
4 goblin lackey
4 goblin matron
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin warchief

1 Earwig Squad
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Krenko
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki Jiki
1 goblin Churgeon
3 Mogg War Marshall

3 Gempalm incinerator
3 tarfire
1 warrenweirding

Sideboard:
2 pithing needle
1 pyrokinesis
1 Warren weirding
2 surgical extractions
1 perish/engineered plague
1 pyroblast
1 tuktuk
2 tormods crypt
1 relic of progentius
3 cabal therapys

The mainboard is not that special except for Wort, Boggart Auntie.
I still think she might be worth playing, for example in grindy games where you can keep casting tarfire/gempalm/stingscourger every turn or even sac ringleader/matron over churgeon en keep on creating card advantage.
I'am not sure if its gonna work but in the middle/late game it can sure approve some card advantage and keep us away from dying because of terrible draws.
Im intrested what your guys oppinion is on Wort, Boggart Auntie for helping us in grindy games.

Mainboard is build for beating fair decks, the sideboard is build on killing combo especially decks that use there graveyard, i would like to fit some bloodmoons or chalices in there but not sure what to cut for it.

All advice is welcome thx in advance!

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

I don't think haste lords let you 'win games out of nowhere' when you have no deck slots for attackers (Piledriver/Rabblemaster). Neither are you playing pingers (Sharpshooter/Sparksmith) so the only creature that really needs the haste is Krenko. Ringleader has haste already and when you have 6 slots on goblins that all have haste themselves and give each other haste you are inevitably going to double up on this effect which has some pretty severe diminishing returns.

I don't think Redcap is necessarily a 'bad card' but if you want a 4-mana Goblin that deals targeted damage to creatures I think it's a significantly inferior Lightning Crafter.

After testing with KikiJiki for a while I think there are arguments that it's just better than siege gang (especially if you add lightning crafter).

From your maindeck I would
-1 Redcap
+1 Lightning Crafter

-1 Warchief/SGC
+1 Kiki Jiki

-1 Warchief
+1 Sharpshooter

-1 Gempalm/Warchief/Chieftain/MWM
+0

I would play Chirurgeon over Prospector.
This is not the exact goblin list that I would play in a tournament but I think that these small suggestions are improvements.

I don't think you want to bring in Chalice in the matchups where you want Tarfire, both because it stops you from casting your own one-drops (tarfire/vial) but also because it makes your Ringleaders worse in matchups where you want to be trading resources. An exception might be Elves, but even they still have GSZ -> Rec Sage.
Piledriver sucks as a SB card vs combo imo because aggro draws are generally too slow to beat combo without disruption, and all anti-combo sideboard cards you want to draw are not Goblins so they are nonbos with Piledriver. Unfortunately you are Mono R so you are limited in the anti-combo cards you can play but maybe some red blasts could be acceptable.

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tnx kiwi, a lot of work to do here ;)

_haste lords gives haste to every single goblin. even if no one is powerful by itself as piledriver, being able to play them and attack immidiately is very powerful. not to mention the best part: cost reduction and +1+1 effect. warchief is the card i want to see every game, maybe i could cut 1 chieftain..
rabblemaster is heavy but in this kind of list i would play it only as sideboard card against combo decks or elves (maybe i'll do it, what do you think?)

_right, more disruption=less goblin=piledriver less powerfull, but our disruption isn't enough to cut them out of the game completely, so make pressure is still the key i guess

_personally i don't love kiki-crafter combo. even if sometimes it let us win for free, i found my self trying to fetch combo pieces too many times instead of building an effective game-plan. if one of them is killed our plan will fail miserably. chirurgeon may help this strategy more than prospector, but i prefer to try it a bit prior to a tournament

_i don't like lighniing crafter because he's too slow. many times he'll die befor to being able to tap for burn, moreover if the championed creature is killed while he's on the stack he will die instantly. i understand that championing can re-trigger ETB effect, but i was never impressed by it when i tried it out. i'm not saying kiki-crafter shells aren't interesting, but there are both pro and cons and i would like to test it properly and not to play them without confidence, also because i'm not sure it fit my playstyle

_madcap is faster!!
he enter - he shoots
he die - he soots again
he don't need to champion anithing
he chump like a boss

_SGC is my favourite finisher. i'm still deciding what to do, but i love to play 2x usually
he enter, he bring guys. stifle is not a thing at this moment and he will connect for sure. moreover he can shoot things.
kiki can be stifled if target is killed, krenko can die before tapping. karakas can be an issue for both

_sideboard is not clear to me atm.. my friends expect to face many combos, so i have to figure out what to do. maybe cutting moons in favor of artifact-based disruption
why you suggest red blast? is great vs show and tell, omni show and cunning whish, but vs other combo i don't know

_chirurgeon is great, i agree

just my 2 cents, i know there are far more experienced goblin player than me here so every single suggestion is very precious
i'll try to put a better list togheter tomorrow ;)

Re: Wort
The question you really need to ask yourself is if your opponent lets you untap with a 4 mana 3/3 legendary Goblin how often is it going to be better than Krenko? Krenko also gets a serious boost from any lords whereas Wort doesn't. Against opponents where 1 Disentomb per turn is good then Goblins should be favored in that matchup anyway.

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moreover if the championed creature is killed while he's on the stack he will die instantly

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Champion doesn't target, if your opponent wants crafter to die to the champion ability then they need to kill every single other goblin you control in response to the trigger.

I don't think of Kiki and Crafter as being important for the combo aspect, they are just 2 very powerful cards by themselves that happen to have this extra potential. If your opponent 'stifles' your Kiki Jiki by killing the target you won't even be very unhappy about it because that's 1 more removal spell that didn't target your Kiki Jiki.

The argument that Redcap is good at both pinging and chumping is very suspect for me, if your opponent has a big creature that you need to chump then the ping won't kill it so it's like an expensive MWM in this situation and if your opponent has lots of little creatures is Redcap really better than free bolt every turn? When you have so many ways to give it haste (especially in your build) the argument that Crafter will die before shooting anything is also less convincing.

Re: Pyroblast, maybe Thorn is better? I splash black so I play discard, not exactly sure what the best mono red option is.

I think Rabble is so good that it should be in the maindeck but I know that most people consider this very unorthodox.

Quote:

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Champion doesn't target, if your opponent wants crafter to die to the champion ability then they need to kill every single other goblin you control in response to the trigger.

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k, never figured that, tnx for the tip

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I don't think of Kiki and Crafter as being important for the combo aspect, they are just 2 very powerful cards by themselves that happen to have this extra potential. If your opponent 'stifles' your Kiki Jiki by killing the target you won't even be very unhappy about it because that's 1 more removal spell that didn't target your Kiki Jiki.

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after few test in the last weeks i think those 2 card are meta-depending: i found them very bad vs combo where we need race fast. in a combo-heavy meta i'd prefer run 2 piledriver instead

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I think Rabble is so good that it should be in the maindeck but I know that most people consider this very unorthodox.

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do you have a tested shell where rabble works well?
it's not a matter of orthodoxism. it's a strong card for sure and he apply a lot of pressure, but the "must attack" ability looks wierd to me since usually we are the little guy on the field

In a combo-heavy meta you shouldn't be playing Goblins with many Piledrivers, because you shouldn't even be playing Goblins at all.
If Goblins is the only deck you have available then playing a bunch of Piledrivers may maximize your chances of winning in that meta but it's not something you should be happy about.

My current maindeck list is:

4 Cavern
4 Wasteland
4 Port
5 Fetchlands
3 Badlands
3 Mountain

4 Vial

4 Lackey
1 Chirurgeon
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Sparksmith
1 Stingscourger
4 Matron
1 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
1 Chieftain
2 Rabblemaster
4 Ringleader
1 Krenko
1 Scrapper
1 Lightning Crafter
1 E Squad
1 Kiki Jiki

3 Tarfire
2 Warren Weirding

This is 58 cards
At the moment for these last 2 cards I am playing 1 more copy of Chieftain and Rabble but you could play e.g. 1 more Gempalm or the 4th Tarfire.
I'm still not 100% sure if maindeck Earwig Squad is worth it but I am mostly happy with everything else.

Quote:

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do you have a tested shell where rabble works well?
it's not a matter of orthodoxism. it's a strong card for sure and he apply a lot of pressure, but the "must attack" ability looks wierd to me since usually we are the little guy on the field

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You will always be the little guy on the field. There is no realistic way to have enough Chieftains that your Goblins (Warchiefs, MWM Tokens, Lackey, Matron, Ringleader etc) will be big enough to battle with Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler, and there will always be creatures that you can't attack into very well regardless of the size of your creatures, e.g. True Name, Baleful Strix. How do you win if all the opponent's creatures are bigger? As a creature deck with a lot of free creatures, you have to either go very wide so that you can make big alpha-strike chump-attacks and not care, or play removal so that your little guys can attack unopposed.

The problem with trying to go wide is firstly that it is very slow, especially in a deck where a lot of the cards have expensive mana-costs and are not focused around attacking (Matron, Ringleader, many of the utility guys like Scrapper, etc). Threats in current legacy are very powerful now, so if your opponent has their own aggressive start with Delver/Goyf/Angler (along with a bit of disruption) you may find that as the goblin player you are put on the defensive in an early stage of the game, and are unable to build a board that can effectively attack. The other problem is that (even in goblins where you can refill your hand relatively easily) committing multiple resources to the board makes you vulnerable to sweepers.

The second strategy is to play removal so that your small creatures can safely attack, or that you delay the opposing aggression enough that your powerful lategame can take over. Goblins has a number of acceptable options for this. Tarfire is great because DRS is the best creature in legacy at the moment and 2 damage also kills the most widely played aggressive threat (Delver). Weirding is also acceptable and having a maindeckable way to kill TNN is pretty nice. Gempalm can easily scale up to kill Angler while generating a 2-for-1. It seems like this is the direction that most goblins players have been heading in recently (a lot of people are playing x4 Tarfire plus other removal, whereas pre-DRS Tarfire was often considered only as a niche 1-of, for example).

These two strategies (go-wide or removal) are in opposition with one another, because playing a removal on an opponent's creature is spending a card on something that is not contributing to your own board position. You can't successfully try to do both things at once. One option is therefore to completely focus on the removal plan and forego having any cards focused on attacking. Just try to trade resources at every opportunity while grinding with Matron and Ringleader. In specific metagames (or matchups), this strategy is probably a good idea. The problem (that you all know) is that your combo matchup becomes atrocious the further down this road you go, and you lose the ability to race decks that aren't necessarily trying to race you, but have another way of trumping your lategame (either because they will eventually find an unanswerable card that locks you out, like Solitary Confinement, or their endgame is some massive unstoppable threat, like Entreat the Angels).

What we therefore need is a card that is good at attacking, but doesn't rely on having much of a board position (because the metagame dictates that we dedicate so many slots to removal spells). Rabblemaster perfectly suits this role. A few points about the card:

- What I suggest most people cut from their lists to play Rabble are the lords (Chieftain / Warchief). These lords do not have much synergy with a removal / resource trading gameplan. Once you have no/fewer lords in your deck you can be less worried about 'all my goblins must attack' because there are fewer copies of cards that you are upset about chump-attacking into things.

- The cards in Goblins that you REALLY don't want to attack with all have tap abilities that you can activate pre-combat so that you don't have to attack with them (Krenko, Kiki, Sharpshooter, etc).

- If your opponent chooses to use their Tarmogoyf to eat a Ringleader or Matron or Lackey that was forced to attack, instead of blocking your Rabblemaster, they are going to be eating a ton of damage from the Rabblemaster, and you are replacing the goblin that died with the free token from the Rabblemaster anyway, so your attack next turn will still be the same size (unlike Piledriver).

- If your opponent does block the Rabble instead then the Rabble is probably big enough that it will trade with whatever blocked it (like Piledriver), but you still have the free token leftover (unlike Piledriver).

- Spitting out a free token every turn is a nice combo with a lot of the other goblin cards (Chirurgeon, Krenko, Gempalm, Sharpshooter, Sparksmith, Kiki, Chieftain)

- Rabble is very synergistic with waste/port because it advances your board by itself while not requiring any mana to be spent. If you attack with Rabble and then tie up your opponents mana, then you didn't play any extra spell but neither did your opponent, and you get to make an even bigger attack the next turn with the free token. (This is significant because this deck has very few ways to abuse wasteland other than vial. It's hard to get ahead on board early unless your lackey is connecting, and without vial you want to keep all your lands in play to cast 4- and 5-drops in the lategame.)

- Similar to the above point, Rabble is very good with other disruption like Thoughtseize, whereas Piledriver and other goblins aren't. (You use a card and spend mana to disrupt your opponent, but with Rabble you still get to develop your attackers while doing this)

- If you play Lackey on turn 1 and use it to play Rabble on turn 2 (19). On turn 3 you make a token and attack for at least 6 (13). Assuming you can play at least a 2/2 and 1/1 goblin (either hardcast or from the lackey trigger) by the end of turn 3 then on your turn 4 combat you will be attacking for lethal. It's difficult to think of situations where Rabble actually goldfishes slower than Piledriver. (Ok, but they are absurd nutdraws requiring specific cards like Lackey into turn 2 warchief plus double piledriver and something else).

- Because Rabble is a high-power non-synergy-dependent card it makes the deck more resistant to mulligans and things like Hymn to Tourach

I feel there's a list out there that utilizes frogtosser banneret and chrome mox.

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If Goblins is the only deck you have available

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exactly, put togheter a legacy deck (even if a "cheap" one) took me almost 2 year and a decent amount of money, so I'll play with gobbos now while slowly puting togheter something else. so i can adapt it to the meta, but not change deck at wish. moreover is the deck I know better in the format and wich I feel more comfortable with even if not the strongest at all

your list is the most 1x intensive i've ever seen :tongue:

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You will always be the little guy on the field. There is no realistic way to have enough Chieftains that your Goblins (Warchiefs, MWM Tokens, Lackey, Matron, Ringleader etc) will be big enough to battle with Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler, and there will always be creatures that you can't attack into very well regardless of the size of your creatures, e.g. True Name, Baleful Strix. How do you win if all the opponent's creatures are bigger? As a creature deck with a lot of free creatures, you have to either go very wide so that you can make big alpha-strike chump-attacks and not care, or play removal so that your little guys can attack unopposed.

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of course i didn't meant we need to be bigger than them with lords (we aren't fish!), just that rabblemaster will often forse us to chump-attack with some buddies (mainly lords, sgc or prospector)

i see there are a lot of interesting points about rabble master. is a very strong card but require a change of perspective about the deck since he doesn't allow "controllish" game style and force us to take the proactive-aggressive role instead.
i think the best way to understand if he works is to try it, i'm looking to do it in future

Hi.

I'm an old reader of this forum. I hadn't registered because my bad English but I finally decided to do it to try to give you my opinion about this deck. Thus, I can also keep practising my writing... and I'm sure you'll be able to understand what I wanna say.

Anyway, It's been many years playing Legacy, I'm not a pro one but I've been piloting this deck for years. Honestly, I reckon it's not a good time for goblins...and this is because you are the good pair against almost every deck...

Why? It's simple, because the metagame and the new cards. Every deck might update their strategies looking for the best way to adapt itself to be competitive in the meta. Goblin's cannot. I don't remember a good card for this desk since Cavern of Souls.
In juxtapostion, we need to deal with: deathrite shaman, fatal push, abrupt decay, toxic deluge... Besides, the growth of TNN's decks has caused the people includes: eng plague, golgary charm, zealous, marsh casualties, edict ...

My 75's and then my reasons.

Lands (22):
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
5 Mountains

Artifacts (4):
4 Aether vial

Creatures (29):
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringsleader
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Krenko Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Grenzo Dungeon Warden

Spells (5):
3 Tarfire
2 Warren Weirding

Side (15):
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sudden Demise
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin King


I've always been a defensor to not splashing this deck, but some circunstances made me change my mind.

Deck analysis:

Lands:
First of all, there is no ports in my list. It's been a long since the last time I played them. They are a very powerful tool but I'd prefer to be fast and, nowadays, I think Ancient Tomb is better than ports in this list. There are a lot of goblins that it comes earlier with tombs (matron,ringsleaders,, shooter, krenko... combinations of two 1R 1Rx cards), you'll be able to play vial around daze as well. Post side, tomb is a good friend of Chalice, Thorn, Blood Moon, demise, magus...

The rest of the land base is quite similar to the regular. The splashing is optional, I think it is necessary to be able to clean TNN or playing discard cards but it makes you lose more life (fetchs+tombs...)

The creatures selection is st that depends on each player/meta... but there is st that I assume is non-negotiable and I don't go to discuss:

4 Goblin Lackey (the trol who always makes your opponent frown)
4 Goblin Matron (goblin tutor)
4 Goblin Warchief (double speed)
4 Goblin Ringsleader (cards advantage or clean sht on the top)

Then:

2-4 Gempalm Incinerator
1-2 Stingscourger
1-2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Krenko Mob Boss

I used to play 3 piledriver, then I realised than it always was a -2 piledriver in G2/3 against almost decks so I decided to play only one... (you always have the matron tutor...)

I love stingcourger (synergy with lackey/ good against delve famous fishes/vampire... good against delver / good against reanimator decks / good as a finisher vaporsnagging the blocker/...) You always want one in your opening hand. I play 2... (sometimes 3)

2-3 gempalms I think are necessary, only can be stifled and also have synergy with lackey.

I had to read several times Krenko ability to believe it, so must be in.

The rest:
2 Mogg War Marshal (I don't see nothing special on these but I like them)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (There are a lot of d&t and Stoneforge decks so I think I need to play one copy)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon (annoying and useful)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (d&t, elemental token, elves..., many times is going to side in game 2, but it is + because sometimes you don't know what cards should be out :D)
1 Grenzo Dungeon Warden (funny card, I think this is not a deck to win a gp so enjoy :D Honestly, it is a very circunstantial card and is a nombo with ringsleader but you can cast almost every creature in the deck, even with x=0) Besides, 50% of your deck are creatures... and you can activate without tap it. A lot of time you've got the vial on 2 and a tomb untapped...


Side:
All the cards on the sideboard are quite common except maybe Collective, sudden, magus and king.

- I wish I could play 3 Collective. I love that card, you can have a bad duress when you need, a bad removal or attention, the third ability also help us because we lose so much life. You don't need to escalate. Be patient.
- Sudden Demise is an strong massive removal against so many decks (grixis, 4c control, d&t, infect,...) I like it and a I play it.
- You can play magus with vial, you can play an unexpected third blood moon.
- Gobling king is maybe the weakest tool of my side and so many time is changed for another card basically because it is an easy target. But there are a lot of decks with red and that may become unblockable your goblins. Maybe a I tried another posibilities.

If you win the 1st, sometimes is better to step aside some lackeys because you are not going to start and then turns them in a slow options. G3 (they should come back). Remember you can play cost 1 creatures with chalice and cavern. But be careful with vial.

Some pairings advices: (%s are, of course, made up)

TES. -> You are gonna lose and you know it so relax. 95% you'll be losing the 1st. You can try to fix it with side and a good locker. Almost every card in the side are in... all of your removal will be out, slow cards too. You'll be happy to know that you are playing ancient tombs...

-4 Ringsleader
-3 Gempalm
-2 Warren
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Tuktuk

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 Collective brutality

Lands.-> It is quite possible you lose too, not without fight.
The only chance to beat your opp in the 1st, is being the fastest. If it is a long game, you need to consider to concede. Remember that your vial always on 2 to be able to play stingcourger against marit. Your wasteland are a useful tool, do not change it by an opponent bayou... Surgical is an strong card against land too.

-4 Ringsleader
-3 Gempalm
-2 Warren
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Shooter
-1 marshall

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+3 Moon pack

Death and taxes -> 50% I don't think d&t a bad pair... Basically the first to play a vial will probably the winner.

Be careful with: the obvious, mother of the runes, jitte, sword of fire and ice, flyers.
Remember that: you play similar strategy so take advantage of that. If you are able to play a surgical over stp your goblins will be free way. In G2/3 play around cataclysm, do not put all your cards onto the battlefield. Remember to save your removal for cards you cannot deal with (fly/mothers/...) do not waste them on thalias, they are cute.

-2 Ringsleader
-2 Marshall
-1 Grenzo
-1 Piledriver

+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Collective Brutality

Grixis.

This is one of the most stronger legacy decks at the moment. So it will be hard to beat it. But not impossible. A bad choice and you're dead.

Remember that:
It's obvious but I've seen many mistakes with that: Don't waste your removals in cards you can deal with.
Remember the priority: delver (kill it), pyromancer (kill it, it is faster than you), deathrite (kill it only if it is useful to got a lackey effect or if you have plenty of removals), tnn (you only play 2/75 cards to kill it, don't fail it :D), gurmag (just block it or return to his/her opponent hand)

You need to play a quick vial, it is your card, do not keep a hand with 3 lands and cost 2/3 creatures because probably there won't be turn 3... (actually use this with every pair)

Siding... I don't usually play the moon pack. It's going to kill u with lightning or red cards.

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Collective Brutality
+1 Goblin King

(well, now that is difficult)
-2 Ringsleader
-1 Grenzo
-1 Stincourger
-1 Tuktuk
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Shooter
-1 Marshall

To be continued:
UBx control
Sneak and show
4C control

Any comment or correction are very welcome :D

All the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheinp

Hi.

I'm an old reader of this forum. I hadn't registered because my bad English but I finally decided to do it to try to give you my opinion about this deck. Thus, I can also keep practising my writing... and I'm sure you'll be able to understand what I wanna say.

Anyway, It's been many years playing Legacy, I'm not a pro one but I've been piloting this deck for years. Honestly, I reckon it's not a good time for goblins...and this is because you are the good pair against almost every deck...

Why? It's simple, because the metagame and the new cards. Every deck might update their strategies looking for the best way to adapt itself to be competitive in the meta. Goblin's cannot. I don't remember a good card for this desk since Cavern of Souls.
In juxtapostion, we need to deal with: deathrite shaman, fatal push, abrupt decay, toxic deluge... Besides, the growth of TNN's decks has caused the people includes: eng plague, golgary charm, zealous, marsh casualties, edict ...

My 75's and then my reasons.

Lands (22):
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
5 Mountains

Artifacts (4):
4 Aether vial

Creatures (29):
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringsleader
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Krenko Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Grenzo Dungeon Warden

Spells (5):
3 Tarfire
2 Warren Weirding

Side (15):
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sudden Demise
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin King


I've always been a defensor to not splashing this deck, but some circunstances made me change my mind.

Deck analysis:

Lands:
First of all, there is no ports in my list. It's been a long since the last time I played them. They are a very powerful tool but I'd prefer to be fast and, nowadays, I think Ancient Tomb is better than ports in this list. There are a lot of goblins that it comes earlier with tombs (matron,ringsleaders,, shooter, krenko... combinations of two 1R 1Rx cards), you'll be able to play vial around daze as well. Post side, tomb is a good friend of Chalice, Thorn, Blood Moon, demise, magus...

The rest of the land base is quite similar to the regular. The splashing is optional, I think it is necessary to be able to clean TNN or playing discard cards but it makes you lose more life (fetchs+tombs...)

The creatures selection is st that depends on each player/meta... but there is st that I assume is non-negotiable and I don't go to discuss:

4 Goblin Lackey (the trol who always makes your opponent frown)
4 Goblin Matron (goblin tutor)
4 Goblin Warchief (double speed)
4 Goblin Ringsleader (cards advantage or clean sht on the top)

Then:

2-4 Gempalm Incinerator
1-2 Stingscourger
1-2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Krenko Mob Boss

I used to play 3 piledriver, then I realised than it always was a -2 piledriver in G2/3 against almost decks so I decided to play only one... (you always have the matron tutor...)

I love stingcourger (synergy with lackey/ good against delve famous fishes/vampire... good against delver / good against reanimator decks / good as a finisher vaporsnagging the blocker/...) You always want one in your opening hand. I play 2... (sometimes 3)

2-3 gempalms I think are necessary, only can be stifled and also have synergy with lackey.

I had to read several times Krenko ability to believe it, so must be in.

The rest:
2 Mogg War Marshal (I don't see nothing special on these but I like them)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (There are a lot of d&t and Stoneforge decks so I think I need to play one copy)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon (annoying and useful)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (d&t, elemental token, elves..., many times is going to side in game 2, but it is + because sometimes you don't know what cards should be out :D)
1 Grenzo Dungeon Warden (funny card, I think this is not a deck to win a gp so enjoy :D Honestly, it is a very circunstantial card and is a nombo with ringsleader but you can cast almost every creature in the deck, even with x=0) Besides, 50% of your deck are creatures... and you can activate without tap it. A lot of time you've got the vial on 2 and a tomb untapped...


Side:
All the cards on the sideboard are quite common except maybe Collective, sudden, magus and king.

- I wish I could play 3 Collective. I love that card, you can have a bad duress when you need, a bad removal or attention, the third ability also help us because we lose so much life. You don't need to escalate. Be patient.
- Sudden Demise is an strong massive removal against so many decks (grixis, 4c control, d&t, infect,...) I like it and a I play it.
- You can play magus with vial, you can play an unexpected third blood moon.
- Gobling king is maybe the weakest tool of my side and so many time is changed for another card basically because it is an easy target. But there are a lot of decks with red and that may become unblockable your goblins. Maybe a I tried another posibilities.

If you win the 1st, sometimes is better to step aside some lackeys because you are not going to start and then turns them in a slow options. G3 (they should come back). Remember you can play cost 1 creatures with chalice and cavern. But be careful with vial.

Some pairings advices: (%s are, of course, made up)

TES. -> You are gonna lose and you know it so relax. 95% you'll be losing the 1st. You can try to fix it with side and a good locker. Almost every card in the side are in... all of your removal will be out, slow cards too. You'll be happy to know that you are playing ancient tombs...

-4 Ringsleader
-3 Gempalm
-2 Warren
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Tuktuk

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 Collective brutality

Lands.-> It is quite possible you lose too, not without fight.
The only chance to beat your opp in the 1st, is being the fastest. If it is a long game, you need to consider to concede. Remember that your vial always on 2 to be able to play stingcourger against marit. Your wasteland are a useful tool, do not change it by an opponent bayou... Surgical is an strong card against land too.

-4 Ringsleader
-3 Gempalm
-2 Warren
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Shooter
-1 marshall

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+3 Moon pack

Death and taxes -> 50% I don't think d&t a bad pair... Basically the first to play a vial will probably the winner.

Be careful with: the obvious, mother of the runes, jitte, sword of fire and ice, flyers.
Remember that: you play similar strategy so take advantage of that. If you are able to play a surgical over stp your goblins will be free way. In G2/3 play around cataclysm, do not put all your cards onto the battlefield. Remember to save your removal for cards you cannot deal with (fly/mothers/...) do not waste them on thalias, they are cute.

-2 Ringsleader
-2 Marshall
-1 Grenzo
-1 Piledriver

+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Collective Brutality

Grixis.

This is one of the most stronger legacy decks at the moment. So it will be hard to beat it. But not impossible. A bad choice and you're dead.

Remember that:
It's obvious but I've seen many mistakes with that: Don't waste your removals in cards you can deal with.
Remember the priority: delver (kill it), pyromancer (kill it, it is faster than you), deathrite (kill it only if it is useful to got a lackey effect or if you have plenty of removals), tnn (you only play 2/75 cards to kill it, don't fail it :D), gurmag (just block it or return to his/her opponent hand)

You need to play a quick vial, it is your card, do not keep a hand with 3 lands and cost 2/3 creatures because probably there won't be turn 3... (actually use this with every pair)

Siding... I don't usually play the moon pack. It's going to kill u with lightning or red cards.

+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Sudden Demise
+2 Collective Brutality
+1 Goblin King

(well, now that is difficult)
-2 Ringsleader
-1 Grenzo
-1 Stincourger
-1 Tuktuk
-1 Chirugeon
-1 Shooter
-1 Marshall

To be continued:
UBx control
Sneak and show
4C control

Any comment or correction are very welcome :D

All the best.

---

Hey there, happy to see you've decided to join our conversation! I have some thoughts on your deck choices and your sideboarding approach.

Your maindeck looks pretty good to me, with the exception of stingscourger. I really don't think he's particularly good, especially since you're playing 2 maindeck edicts, and they handle many of the same problems. I always play 1 Sting, but he usually gets boarded out unless I'm playing against Reanimator/Sneak and Show. I also think the omission of Skirk Prospector in a list with 4 warchiefs doesn't make a lot of sense, as he powers out some of the more explosive turns we can do. You could use an additional red source as well. He also does double duty on getting fighting Jitte while you look for tuktuk scrapper.

Since you are splashing black, I also think 1 Earwig Squad is a must. He makes your combo matchups so much better, since against ANT he wins the game on the spot, and against many of the fair decks he can rip out all the most dangerous cards (all the sweepers like Deluge, E Plague, or the stoneforge package of Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Batterskull for example). Earwig is one of the prime draws to black in the first place.

The ancient tomb approach looks reasonable to me, though 4 might be too many? I'm concerned you don't have enough red or black sources. I too have felt that Port isn't very good right now, and so I have a manabase that looks like this:
23 land
4 waste
4 cavern of souls
4 Mountain
3 Badlands
6 red fetches
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven


Your sideboard has some interesting choices. 3 Chalice seems good, but 2 Thorn of Amethyst seems like a little bit of overkill. I think your sideboard lacks slots for the fair matchups, particularly against equipment. An additional Tuktuk Scrapper, Kolaghan's Command, or Abrade are all quite powerful options for artifacts. Alternatively, you could add some Pithing Needles, which would boost your matchup % against Lands, any equipment decks, and Sneak and Show. A card I also really like the idea of in an ancient tomb list is Warping Wail, which is fantastic against Show and Tell decks, Reanimator, Storm, while also hitting most of the key creatures of the format: Deathrite, Young Pyromancer, Stoneforge, etc. With ancient tombs powering it out on t1, I'd be tempted to even maindeck it. Also counters toxic deluge :D

Collective Brutality seems good, especially because you're gonna be hurting yourself a lot. I generally prefer Cabal Therapy, but if you're running 3 chalices, I can see why your prefer Brutality.

Matchups:

TES is indeed an awful matchup. Your sideboarding here is good as far as I can see here.

Lands: I think it's pretty even. We can actually go pretty long against them. Boarding out Ringleaders against a Punishing Fire deck doesn't make any sense to me, since we need to overwhelm them with sheer numbers. 1-2 creatures isn't gonna cut it. I'd also leave in 1 gempalm and 2 warren weirdings. The gempalm is because almost all Lands decks will board into Tireless Tracker, and we need ways to deal with it. The weirdings shouldn't be cut because they answer Marit Lage. Tarfire on the other hand, is almost useless.

Collective Brutality does not seem good in the matchup: We can only really hit Gamble, Loam, Crop Rotation, and Punishing Fire, and they can recur both Loam and P Fire. Duress just isn't good against them.

Getting a Chalice on 1 and 2 locks them out, I'd probably put it on 1 first to protect against a quick Crop Rotation kill, then 2 to stop Loam and P Fire. Chalice on 1 does stop our own surgical extractions unfortunately, so maybe Chalice on 2 is always better?

Death and Taxes: I've done a lot of testing against this deck, and war marshal is very important. We need gempalm to be able to kill 2 toughness creatures ASAP and war marshal is the best way to do that. We're the control deck in this matchup, so boarding out ringleader doesn't make a lot of sense here either. I can see bringing out 1 because of mana curve issues, but ancient tomb means you can get him out very quickly normally.

I agree with boarding in Sudden Demise (seems fantastic!), but Surgical seems terrible and Brutality is somewhat medium. Surgical might snipe a set of StP, but they also bring in Path to Exile as removal, and have already cast at least 1 StP. It's card disadvantage unless they have the second in their hand. Most of the time, surgical will rot in your hand. Brutality is okay in this matchup, but discarding cards is a serious cost; furthermore, fetching out a badlands against D&T is somewhat dangerous, since they will probably wasteland it immediately. Cabal Therapy is much better here since you can get the equipment from Stoneforge out of their hand, and then cast it a second time, preferably saccing a Mogg War Marshal :wink:

Grixis (delver): Ringleader, War Marshal, Chirugeon, and Sharpshooter all seem strong in the matchup. Sharpshooter is the best answer we have to a Young Pyromancer, so leaving him in is a must. Since all of their removal spells are "destroy" (fatal push) or direct damage (lightning bolt), Chirugeon seems great for protecting important creatures like Warchief. Instead, I'd side out some number of Lackeys (all of them on the draw, there's no way in hell you're getting them to hit on the draw), and Krenko, since he just dies to lightning bolt. Goblin King seems pretty sweet here :laugh: I know a lot of Goblins players like Blood Moon in this matchup, since they usually can't do anything with it in play (they play 0 basics). I'm unsure about it, but it's worth considering since you could consistently play it on t2 with Ancient Tombs. If there's a card that Grixis Delver is terrified of, it's blood moon. Overall, it's a pretty close matchup, but I actually think we're slightly favored. We've had a member of our community go 8-0 against Grixis Delver at GP Vegas awhile back on a Warren Instigator build, so I think that shows that the core of the deck is well set up to beat Delver.

Hope this feedback is interesting to you, happy to see some new posts on this forum!

Hello Goblins,

I'm thinking abouth how good is abrade in meta??Could u help me rate my Sideboard?

4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Blood Moon
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void

I want remove this cards to replace it with Abrade:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I'm running instigator list, so i think that sharpshooter is too weak in this list... without warchief and no skirk prospector... i think that i can use another card.

Quote:

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exactly, put togheter a legacy deck (even if a "cheap" one) took me almost 2 year and a decent amount of money, so I'll play with gobbos now while slowly puting togheter something else. so i can adapt it to the meta, but not change deck at wish. moreover is the deck I know better in the format and wich I feel more comfortable with even if not the strongest at all

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Ok, you can play anti-combo goblins if you want, but even then Rabble is close to being as-strong or stronger than Piledriver imo.

Quote:

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your list is the most 1x intensive i've ever seen :tongue:

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I admit this does look kind of silly but for example you can look at slots like
1x Sparksmith
1x Gempalm

Of course if you wanted you could just make this 2x Gempalm 0x Sparksmith and you probably wouldn't notice much difference. You still have 2 slots that are strong removal options. Likewise, you could play 2 Sparksmith and 0 Gempalm and maybe not notice much difference either (considering the metagame at the moment that option is probably worse, but if you are playing against Elves all the time then 2x Sparksmith would be better, for example). I think that with 4 matron in the deck the flexibility to have access to both cards outweighs the 'benefit' of having more copies of the one that is maybe slightly better in most matchups. I definitely don't advocate for playing 1 of copies of random situational goblins, but I find that needing Stingscourger and Tuktuk Scrapper comes up too often to cut those (even though they are not very good cards). Earwig Squad is also a very situational option and like I said I am not 100% sure about its inclusion, but the rest fit within a more general category, like 'Finishers', 'Removal', 'Attackers', 'Card Advantage' etc. Within each category I think it's good to have a diverse range of options as long as you don't pick ones that are too situational (for example I think Tarfire, Weirding, Sharpshooter, Sparksmith, Gempalm, and Crafter are all good enough to have in the maindeck as removal options, but like I said a few posts back, Murderous Redcap probably isn't. There is some level of critical thought, I'm not trying to play as many different Goblins as possible just for the sake of it (otherwise I would just -1 Tarfire or -1 Weirding and +1 Redcap).

Quote:

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of course i didn't meant we need to be bigger than them with lords (we aren't fish!), just that rabblemaster will often forse us to chump-attack with some buddies (mainly lords, sgc or prospector)

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- I don't play prospector and I don't play SGC. This would still be true if I didn't play Rabble at all. I don't think you need 2 1-mana sac outlets and Chirurgeon is just better than Prospector, and I think SGC is not as good as Kiki Jiki. If you are very attached to SGC/Prospector then maybe this nonbo is worth considering.
- I agree that Rabblemaster is a nonbo with lords in some matchups which is why I said that to play Rabblemaster you should cut most of the lords to make room

Quote:

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i see there are a lot of interesting points about rabble master. is a very strong card but require a change of perspective about the deck since he doesn't allow "controllish" game style and force us to take the proactive-aggressive role instead.
i think the best way to understand if he works is to try it, i'm looking to do it in future

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Like I said before, you can play this 'all control' game if you want to, but if you are playing Piledriver or multiple Chieftains (and Warchiefs, to a lesser extent) then you are already playing cards in your deck whose main role is just to attack. To test, just cut these cards for Rabblemaster and see how it plays.
It doesn't really force you to change the playstyle much. If the board state is such that playing Rabblemaster would force you into a lot of awkward combat steps then you always have the option to just not cast it (I find this rarely ever happens).

On an unrelated note, I basically agree with everything 1GoblinLackey said 2 posts above this.
Collective Brutality just doesn't feel like a very good sideboard card. If you are using it for the discard then it's worse than Duress/Thoughtseize and if you are using it for the -2/-2 then it's probably worse than whatever Goblin you are boarding out for it. If you anticipate playing against a lot of Burn then I think it could be okay.

In general I feel that people over-sideboard in matchups against fair decks that can be beaten by the main plan of matron/ringleader (thereby making that plan worse by boarding in non-goblins). The main exception to this is DNT where you need extra artifact hate because the plan of 'Tarfire your guy, make a 2/2' can't beat SoFI/Jitte.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey

Hey there, happy to see you've decided to join our conversation! I have some thoughts on your deck choices and your sideboarding approach.

Your maindeck looks pretty good to me, with the exception of stingscourger. I really don't think he's particularly good, especially since you're playing 2 maindeck edicts, and they handle many of the same problems. I always play 1 Sting, but he usually gets boarded out unless I'm playing against Reanimator/Sneak and Show. I also think the omission of Skirk Prospector in a list with 4 warchiefs doesn't make a lot of sense, as he powers out some of the more explosive turns we can do. You could use an additional red source as well. He also does double duty on getting fighting Jitte while you look for tuktuk scrapper.

Since you are splashing black, I also think 1 Earwig Squad is a must. He makes your combo matchups so much better, since against ANT he wins the game on the spot, and against many of the fair decks he can rip out all the most dangerous cards (all the sweepers like Deluge, E Plague, or the stoneforge package of Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Batterskull for example). Earwig is one of the prime draws to black in the first place.

The ancient tomb approach looks reasonable to me, though 4 might be too many? I'm concerned you don't have enough red or black sources. I too have felt that Port isn't very good right now, and so I have a manabase that looks like this:
23 land
4 waste
4 cavern of souls
4 Mountain
3 Badlands
6 red fetches
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven


Your sideboard has some interesting choices. 3 Chalice seems good, but 2 Thorn of Amethyst seems like a little bit of overkill. I think your sideboard lacks slots for the fair matchups, particularly against equipment. An additional Tuktuk Scrapper, Kolaghan's Command, or Abrade are all quite powerful options for artifacts. Alternatively, you could add some Pithing Needles, which would boost your matchup % against Lands, any equipment decks, and Sneak and Show. A card I also really like the idea of in an ancient tomb list is Warping Wail, which is fantastic against Show and Tell decks, Reanimator, Storm, while also hitting most of the key creatures of the format: Deathrite, Young Pyromancer, Stoneforge, etc. With ancient tombs powering it out on t1, I'd be tempted to even maindeck it. Also counters toxic deluge :D

Collective Brutality seems good, especially because you're gonna be hurting yourself a lot. I generally prefer Cabal Therapy, but if you're running 3 chalices, I can see why your prefer Brutality.

Matchups:

TES is indeed an awful matchup. Your sideboarding here is good as far as I can see here.

Lands: I think it's pretty even. We can actually go pretty long against them. Boarding out Ringleaders against a Punishing Fire deck doesn't make any sense to me, since we need to overwhelm them with sheer numbers. 1-2 creatures isn't gonna cut it. I'd also leave in 1 gempalm and 2 warren weirdings. The gempalm is because almost all Lands decks will board into Tireless Tracker, and we need ways to deal with it. The weirdings shouldn't be cut because they answer Marit Lage. Tarfire on the other hand, is almost useless.

Collective Brutality does not seem good in the matchup: We can only really hit Gamble, Loam, Crop Rotation, and Punishing Fire, and they can recur both Loam and P Fire. Duress just isn't good against them.

Getting a Chalice on 1 and 2 locks them out, I'd probably put it on 1 first to protect against a quick Crop Rotation kill, then 2 to stop Loam and P Fire. Chalice on 1 does stop our own surgical extractions unfortunately, so maybe Chalice on 2 is always better?

Death and Taxes: I've done a lot of testing against this deck, and war marshal is very important. We need gempalm to be able to kill 2 toughness creatures ASAP and war marshal is the best way to do that. We're the control deck in this matchup, so boarding out ringleader doesn't make a lot of sense here either. I can see bringing out 1 because of mana curve issues, but ancient tomb means you can get him out very quickly normally.

I agree with boarding in Sudden Demise (seems fantastic!), but Surgical seems terrible and Brutality is somewhat medium. Surgical might snipe a set of StP, but they also bring in Path to Exile as removal, and have already cast at least 1 StP. It's card disadvantage unless they have the second in their hand. Most of the time, surgical will rot in your hand. Brutality is okay in this matchup, but discarding cards is a serious cost; furthermore, fetching out a badlands against D&T is somewhat dangerous, since they will probably wasteland it immediately. Cabal Therapy is much better here since you can get the equipment from Stoneforge out of their hand, and then cast it a second time, preferably saccing a Mogg War Marshal :wink:

Grixis (delver): Ringleader, War Marshal, Chirugeon, and Sharpshooter all seem strong in the matchup. Sharpshooter is the best answer we have to a Young Pyromancer, so leaving him in is a must. Since all of their removal spells are "destroy" (fatal push) or direct damage (lightning bolt), Chirugeon seems great for protecting important creatures like Warchief. Instead, I'd side out some number of Lackeys (all of them on the draw, there's no way in hell you're getting them to hit on the draw), and Krenko, since he just dies to lightning bolt. Goblin King seems pretty sweet here :laugh: I know a lot of Goblins players like Blood Moon in this matchup, since they usually can't do anything with it in play (they play 0 basics). I'm unsure about it, but it's worth considering since you could consistently play it on t2 with Ancient Tombs. If there's a card that Grixis Delver is terrified of, it's blood moon. Overall, it's a pretty close matchup, but I actually think we're slightly favored. We've had a member of our community go 8-0 against Grixis Delver at GP Vegas awhile back on a Warren Instigator build, so I think that shows that the core of the deck is well set up to beat Delver.

Hope this feedback is interesting to you, happy to see some new posts on this forum!

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Thanks for the warm welcome!

I really appreciate your comments. As I said, I've been playing a long time but it doesn't matter, after I read you, I've realised a lot of think to improve and this is cool. Thanks.

First of all, I've seen you play 23 with Karakas and Pendel, there are nice cards, but I'm not sure to be able to include them. I'd prefer the tombs. Karakas is a perfect warden for krenko and it is also good against some decks but 80% of the time is a nonbasic plain... Are u playing Thalias in your 75s? Pendel, ufff, more than a half of my goblins are not 1/1 and 1/1s like matrons... I could let them die after trigger :D

I agree maybe 22 are not enough and sometimes I miss red sources so I really have to consider to check it out.

I'm going to test your changes (some of them :D):

- Earwig Squad. Is the typical card that you know you have to play but I never resolved in a satisfying way... Besides, with tombs it comes earlier... I going to test it again.
- Skirk, I love skirk, I really do it, but I have no spot, I'm going to think about it.

so maybe there won't be 23 lands but I can test with one copy of skirk:

Main:
+1 Earwig
+1 Skirk
-1 Sting (I buy it)
- 1 Grenzo (life is hard) / -1 tarfire (I need to think that)

Side:

Maybe, I haven't taken reasonable decisions, my meta was full of tes and maybe I've got too many cards against that, so this -2 Thorns could be the correct choice. And, I really don't trust in my gobling king so its gonna be out to. I'm thinking about the wails, even in the main deck... maybe I test it... so next weekend I gonna test with:

-2 Thorns
-1 King
+1 Kolaghan / +1 Abrade (I'm going to think which one)
+2 Needles (I don't like to play just one in a deck without bs/ponder, I think is too random)

Talking about the match up:

Lands: I've completely forgotten the trackers so you're rigth with the palmagema, at least i need to keep 1. I still thinking about -2 warren, most of the lands player use to activate marit lage at the end of my turn turning my warren in a useless card. It's true I can force it with a wasteland but, I don't know, they never help me to deal with it... Collective also kills trackers :D

Chalices... well, x=1 or 2, both are useful against lands, but they always have decays or krosan to break it, so, I'm afraid, it's just a temporal solution...

D&T: Collective is weaker than therapy here. That's right, but it also useful as a removal. I like it because it's a polyvalent card, but I'm aware that in some parings there are some stronger cards. I don't like either side my ringsleaders, I know they are my WC so many times but when the number of creatures in my deck is being cut... I have no options... Abrade is nice against d&t :D

Grixis. I definitely wasn't thinking very well what I wrote, I going to check your link trying to clarify my thoughts :D

I really appreciate your feedback!!!
Thanks.

Hi gobs,

Chiming in on the Rabblemaster/Piledriver discussion:
I'm currently playing 1 of each. I like Piledriver's OTK potential, and it being 1 mana cheaper matters in combo races. On the other hand, I have been loving rabble in the grindy matchups. Jund and Sultai often end up with both of us topdecking, and Rabble is AMAZING in topdeck wars.

It's taken me a long time, but I've also come around to more tarfires. I went from 1 TF 4 Gempalm to 3 TF 2 Gempalm, and I like it. It's much easier to force through lackey, and Matron->Tarfire is much easier than Matron->Gempalm.

Got top 4 at a local even, around 40 players I believe with the ol' gobbos. I'm pretty bad at remember how matches went but I'll write what I remember.

First the list.

4 waste
4 cavern
4 ports
10 mountain

4 lackey
4 matron
4 ringleader
4 warchief
2 chieftain
2 mwm
1 siege gang
1 krenko
1 lightning crafter
1 stingscourger
1 chirurgeon
1 tuk tuk
1 Kiki-Jiki

2 gempalm
4 vial
4 tarfire


3 chalice
2 blood moon
2 pyrokinesis
2 piledriver
1 sharpshooter
1 tuktuk
1 stingscourger
3 Grafdigger's Cage

R1: Elves
Played against a buddy of mine, he was on a spicy 61 card list with crop rotation and in one of the games he crop rotated for a pendelhaven and saved his elf from my sharpshooter. Then he attacked and I blocked to kill off a goblin and then wiped his board. I ended up losing the match, but it was a buddy of mine who knew I needed the points for our master series event and gave me the win. He proceeded to go undefeated in the rest of the swiss.

Win (2-1)

R2: Infect
Got deck checked and I wrote down my list wrong so I got a G1 loss. Luckily I got him twice in a row. Sharpshooter again doing work keeping his board down. I kept him off of colored mana in the first game we played as well which made it pretty easy to take control of the game.

Win (2-1)

R3: Grixis Control
Another buddy of mine. Game 1 I kept him stuck on just a badlands and a deathrite with no fetches in the yard, loving the fetchless build. The next 2 games he wins by landing true name and draining me with shamans. He goes on to make top 8.

Lose (1-2)

R4: Mono - R stompy
G1 he ramps out a magus of the moon, I play a mountain and a vial. Next turn vial in lackey and tarfire his magus and he blows a firey confluence to kill the lackey and my vial. He runs out of cards, I hit ringleaders and win. G2 was similar where I could kill any threat he played while just playing a bunch of lords.

Win (2-0)
R5: Lands
I get stomped here and a 20/20 flies into my face G1 and G2 pretty quickly. I learned that its better for me to just balls to the wall agro this one out.

Lose (0-2)
R6: DnT
G1 he gets fancy putting in flickerwisp bouncing his recruiter to get more flickerwisp and has a serra avenger out. I have a warchief and ringleader out and drop sharpshooter, ping a flickerwisp, he tries to flickerwisp it and I gempalm his serra to untap and wipe his board up. G2 I got out both sharpshooters and he couldn't compete.

Win (2-0)

Get into top 8 at 8th place.

Revenge match vs Grixis control.
G1 was great trading of resources and my pressure was too much ending the game with a sharpshooter ping to the face. We were both at 1 from him hitting me with true name and draining with shaman. Again shaman was unable to tap for mana consistently.
G2 Was a stomp by True Name again and getting drained out by 3 deathrite since he hit more fetch this time.
G3 I killed everything he put out and got some really nice tempo plays since I noticed he didn't have removal when he let my first warchief live. I krenko him into oblivion.

Top 4
Lands rematch
G1 I am off to a great start and have him on the ropes, he plays tabernacle, and I remind myself to remember the triggers and that I can pay for it and keep deploying lords and go wide around his mazes. I draw the next turn forgetting all the tabernacle triggers and my board is wiped. Doh. I eventually lose that game.
G2 I swarm him with haste lords and MWMs and buff them all with chieftain to get him down to lethal too quickly for him to handle.
G3 Was a very long game where I was able to keep very good pressure all game but eventually he started a glacial chasm lock when I had lethal up. I was sitting on a chalice and 2 mana on board and a cavern in hand, while he had wasteland over on his side of the field and I needed to get that chalice on 2 to stop the glacial lock. I end up waiting too long to get the 4th land and put it down just a turn too late and he gets me with the 20/20.

We ended up all splitting at Top 8, and I got enough points to qualify me for the masters series in my area, so I was happy with my result.
Sharpshooter did work all day, fetchless was great vs the DRS decks. Overall very happy with this current list. Chirurgeon didn't do anything special. Probably going to switch back to skirk. 22 lands felt light, but it worked out. I feel like this list is pretty close to optimal at this point. Championed a few ringleaders and matrons with crafter to deter some board wipes which worked out nicely.

Sorry my memory sucks and my match write ups weren't very descriptive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sagratho

Hello Goblins,

I'm thinking abouth how good is abrade in meta??Could u help me rate my Sideboard?

4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Blood Moon
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void

I want remove this cards to replace it with Abrade:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I'm running instigator list, so i think that sharpshooter is too weak in this list... without warchief and no skirk prospector... i think that i can use another card.

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Abrade is solid, it never is really astounding, but is so very versatile!

Your board is very heavy on combo hate, which seems fine to me. Abrade would definitely help with the fair matchups. I kinda feel like 5 Thorn/Chalice effects might be too many, so a second pyrokinesis could be in there. You list will be very weak to elves without a Sharpshooter.

@Everyone discussing Piledriver vs Rabblemaster. I personally think Rabblemaster seems absolutely awful in most situations. Goblins already has way too many 3 drops, making my primary beatdown creature cost 3 just doesn't make sense to me. The attack with everything downside also seems terrible, any significantly sized blocker becomes an abyss. Thalia, Leovold, Baleful, Angler, TNN etc all get to eat your lords in combat. Pro Blue on piledriver is more relevant now than any time I can remember, now that people seem to be relying on Baleful Strix as their primary defensive creature.

@Quackers, nice run and appreciate the report! Happy to see some more results posted here.
How did you like having the piledrivers in the sideboard only? Were they worth the slots/when did you bring them in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey

Abrade is solid, it never is really astounding, but is so very versatile!

Your board is very heavy on combo hate, which seems fine to me. Abrade would definitely help with the fair matchups. I kinda feel like 5 Thorn/Chalice effects might be too many, so a second pyrokinesis could be in there. You list will be very weak to elves without a Sharpshooter.

@Everyone discussing Piledriver vs Rabblemaster. I personally think Rabblemaster seems absolutely awful in most situations. Goblins already has way too many 3 drops, making my primary beatdown creature cost 3 just doesn't make sense to me. The attack with everything downside also seems terrible, any significantly sized blocker becomes an abyss. Thalia, Leovold, Baleful, Angler, TNN etc all get to eat your lords in combat. Pro Blue on piledriver is more relevant now than any time I can remember, now that people seem to be relying on Baleful Strix as their primary defensive creature.

@Quackers, nice run and appreciate the report! Happy to see some more results posted here.
How did you like having the piledrivers in the sideboard only? Were they worth the slots/when did you bring them in?

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Completely agree with the rabblemaster/piledriver issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheinp

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I really appreciate your comments. As I said, I've been playing a long time but it doesn't matter, after I read you, I've realised a lot of think to improve and this is cool. Thanks.

First of all, I've seen you play 23 with Karakas and Pendel, there are nice cards, but I'm not sure to be able to include them. I'd prefer the tombs. Karakas is a perfect warden for krenko and it is also good against some decks but 80% of the time is a nonbasic plain... Are u playing Thalias in your 75s? Pendel, ufff, more than a half of my goblins are not 1/1 and 1/1s like matrons... I could let them die after trigger :D

I agree maybe 22 are not enough and sometimes I miss red sources so I really have to consider to check it out.

I'm going to test your changes (some of them :D):

- Earwig Squad. Is the typical card that you know you have to play but I never resolved in a satisfying way... Besides, with tombs it comes earlier... I going to test it again.
- Skirk, I love skirk, I really do it, but I have no spot, I'm going to think about it.

so maybe there won't be 23 lands but I can test with one copy of skirk:

Main:
+1 Earwig
+1 Skirk
-1 Sting (I buy it)
- 1 Grenzo (life is hard) / -1 tarfire (I need to think that)

Side:

Maybe, I haven't taken reasonable decisions, my meta was full of tes and maybe I've got too many cards against that, so this -2 Thorns could be the correct choice. And, I really don't trust in my gobling king so its gonna be out to. I'm thinking about the wails, even in the main deck... maybe I test it... so next weekend I gonna test with:

-2 Thorns
-1 King
+1 Kolaghan / +1 Abrade (I'm going to think which one)
+2 Needles (I don't like to play just one in a deck without bs/ponder, I think is too random)

Talking about the match up:

Lands: I've completely forgotten the trackers so you're rigth with the palmagema, at least i need to keep 1. I still thinking about -2 warren, most of the lands player use to activate marit lage at the end of my turn turning my warren in a useless card. It's true I can force it with a wasteland but, I don't know, they never help me to deal with it... Collective also kills trackers :D

Chalices... well, x=1 or 2, both are useful against lands, but they always have decays or krosan to break it, so, I'm afraid, it's just a temporal solution...

D&T: Collective is weaker than therapy here. That's right, but it also useful as a removal. I like it because it's a polyvalent card, but I'm aware that in some parings there are some stronger cards. I don't like either side my ringsleaders, I know they are my WC so many times but when the number of creatures in my deck is being cut... I have no options... Abrade is nice against d&t :D

Grixis. I definitely wasn't thinking very well what I wrote, I going to check your link trying to clarify my thoughts :D

I really appreciate your feedback!!!
Thanks.

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Against Lands, Warren Weirding can kill a Marit Lage if you use a Wasteland, Port, or Blood Moon during your turn, or if they have to use it to block lethal damage. It's not relevant every game, but it should help a little bit. I'm not good at sideboarding though, so I don't know if that's good enough to keep it in.