I'd take this deck anyday blindly and see what havoc I could do with it at a large scale event with the least amount of funding to box the enemies down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante
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I'd take this deck anyday blindly and see what havoc I could do with it at a large scale event with the least amount of funding to box the enemies down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante
I'm taking this deck to a tournament tomorrow so here's the list I'm going to play:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
2x Akroma, Angel of Fury
4x Arc-Slogger Creature
4x Gathan Raiders Creature
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Sulfur Elemental
3x Blood Moon
4x Seething Song
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Snow-Covered Mountain (No particular reason, except that they all have the exact same art...)
Sideboard
4x Pithing Needle
3x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Trinisphere
1x Blood Moon
4x Pyrokinesis
I hope I'll preform well, but the meta is very random, so I'm still open for suggestions...
Im not to familiar with the deck, but if i was to make a quick suggestion...
From what i hear taurean mauler is some kinda good, especially in a deck that can reliably play it turn 1 or 2. I know its counter intuitive to the decks gameplan but does it realy matter. If your opponents not playing speels anyway so if they do manage to play spells, why not penalize them for it. You can probably take out the sulfurs for them and it will improve your list enough.
Yah dragon stompy is probably the strongest choice for a random meta: difficult to hate out, consistent, and screws most decks with its bullets.
this is a list very close to the one that I currently use.Quote:
Originally Posted by overseer1234
I can only agree about SB (MAYBE -1 Needle +1 Crypt)
and tell you that I personally dislike Arcslogger 4x but I don't think it is a huge difference.
Why 1 MD SoL&S ? Only because you're afraid of multiple Jitte or because you really want protection from StP ?
Please write a report and GOOD LUCK!
Or you can not cut Sulfer Elemental who as testing clearly shows is better than Taurean Mauler, not add Taurean Mauler, and not make your deck worse.:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
Thank's for the advice, I'll try to take some notes and write a rapport (never done that before) but the only changes I'll make are going to be the sideboard -1needle and +1 crypt
About the mauler thing, well I just don't have maulers so sulfur's gotta do..
And about the 4 slogger's: just as taco said, the longer I play with the deck the more threats I want in it...
Cutting a Needle from your sideboard is not the right decision ever. I can't stress this enough. I have never ever been dissatisfied with quad Needles in sideboard. I've had a lot of matches where I wished I could run 8. I'd probably run 5 or 6 in board if it were legal. When making a sideboard, you start with 4 Pithing Needle, then you add the other 11 cards.
As for Sulfur Elemental versus Taurean Mauler (versus Red Akroma), I don't agree with either of you. Neither one has clearly established itself as outclassing the other.
I think you can argue this point for aeons and not have a clear answer. There are times when Mauler is superior, and times when Sulfur Elemental is just a mad tricksy bitch and crushes face. And there are times when Akroma's power level is just off the charts, and she can be similarly tricksy with the Gathan Raiders con.
I will say that I spent a week playing all three of them in 23 and 24 threat shells (With standard mana, 4 Moon, 4 Chalice, 0 Trini, and 2-3 Jittes accordingly), and while I'm still not sure who the powerhouse is, I'm ever so slightly leaning towards saying Sulfur Elemental >> Red Akroma >> Taurean Mauler. However each of these guys has their moments, and you're probably not making a wrong decision by running whatever arrangement of them you're most comfortable with.
The only thing I have to say about this deck is that if you don't know for sure that moons aren't going to be huge, md 8. It's still eating the format.
Damn. I played my DS between vintage rounds against other legacy decks and the games usually went like this: I win the die roll (I'm reeally good at that) play something in the line of city/tomb + mox/ssg -> moon effect.
Opponent: Fuck you, scoop.
That opening wins me the game every time they don't have FoW. If they have, then we might actually get to play a little.
So my advice is to play the moons if you don't suspect they aren't good for some reason. (The bad thing is that you don't know their deck but you can take an educated guess that they don't play a lot of basics.)
I fully agree with Deviant on the Moons.
The 8 moon effects is what got me hooked on the deck in the first place.
Back when Ravnica was legal in T2, I played a Magnivore deck that used LD, Moons and later Magus of the Moon to completely eat my local FNM meta.
I mean people were playing what, 1/2 basics LOL. When a Moon stuck the opponent entered scoop fase. After a couple of FNM's people started to play mono white weeny with mainboard disenchant and other hate and Sacred Ground in the board just to hate me :laugh: .
Mike
First game I obviously don't know that the opp. is playing mono-red. (chances for this in my meta would be close to zero. I have, however, faced the mirror match :laugh: ) so I would go for asap-moon if possible. If not, 1st turn chalice-1 is a good start also. Or if you play them - trinisphere.
Second and third game - just figure out what will hurt them. Pyrokinesis is awesome, chalice&trini are good. This deck is no one-trick pony. Also; Arc-Slogger is godsent against decks that want to play a lot of small critters. And so is jitte.
And the differences in sideboarding are very dependant upon your sb. There are a lot of meta-dependat slots. I for one, play REBs because everyone and their mother plays blue in my meta. The md leaves very little room to be creative but the sb isn't carved to stone. Although I agree with Taco about those Needles - play four.
(And by the way: if Tacos opinion deviates from the rests - He's probably right, listen to him.)
As for piloting this deck - it's probably the most aggressive one in the format. We have practically no late game whatsoever. The exception is if you run akromas and are against some landstill variant with no pressure upon you (read: UW) you can "topdeck" into 8 mana and hardcast akroma ftw. Doesn't sound very good now does it? So if locks don't come or they do nothing just try to steal the win with f.e. a flying a dragon to the dome and cast seething song or something for 16+ dmg.
Just remember that even though we have a lot of locks in here, we are no lock-deck. We play them just to slow the opponent down enough to beat face in time.
Seems like an awfully high ratio of red decks... If there really *are* too many, I simply would choose a different deck. It depends on your build... If you're trinisphereless, your equipment is key... Prioritize sulfur elemental and arc-slogger. Burn is rougher if you're trinisphereless. Against those 3 decks, if no turn 1 Lackey, chalice at 1, Burn, chalice at 1, then 2... Sligh... depends, but generally at 1, then 2. For boarding, remove blood moons. If the matchup is burn or sligh, I would remove magus of the moon... Lower threat density, but you have more cards to affect (not control) the board, not to mention removing a card that simply deals damage to you on top of getting removed by a 1cc card. Goblins, they stay in... Remember that it still locks down wasteland/rishadan port. Blood Moons usually go out... Depends on how much wasting/Rishadan they have. Akromas, if you have them, go out. Pyrokinesis/Cave-in/Pyroclasm/Rolling Earthquake/Trinispheres go in. Maximize trinispheres against burn and sligh... less of a priority against Goblins, perhaps 2-3 against them. If goblins, pithing needle goes in for Vial/Goblin Tinkerer/SGC. Just remember not to rely on your disrupting artifacts too much... Shattering Sprees suck. Be very wary of shattering spree into fireblast for burn/sligh. You can't do too much about it... just factor that possibility into your decision-making.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasa_batora
If you have a lot of sligh and burn just run 4x md 3sphere
OK, I often discuss about this...
Which Card is generally better in the Sideboard?
Pyrokinesis or Pyroclasm...
Both of them have Advantages and Disadvantages, but Clasm seems better imo, because it doesn't interfer with Trini. And it looks better against other Aggro...
any Suggestions??
The biggest issue with Pyrokinesis is its lack of synergy with Trinisphere... However, you put that into consideration that when you have to cast a pyrokinesis, generally, you have not gotten the trinisphere up yet, so the point is mostly moot. It depends on the type of aggro. You can cope with an opposing pit-dragon, sea drake, or serendib efreet with the Pyrokinesis and most other decks with the Pyroclasm. Look at your metagame... No one is "better".Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill
I think the best answer is whats in your meta? Like you said both have their advantages, if you expect a lot of say Gobs? Then run Clasm, if you think you'll see more midrange decks then Kenesis is probably the better call. If you really don't know what your going to see then either go with your gut or run some kind of split.
I don't really see what the big deal with red decks is. I don't know of a red deck where DS is any worse than even, and that would be the DS mirror match.
1. Chalice of the Void for 1 and Umezawa's Jitte are how you beat Red decks pre-board. Obviously, put low priority on Moons once you see the opponent has red in their deck. Against any red deck, higher toughness creatures are your priorities to get out. Burn is tough if you don't run over 20 threats, because if you overcommit to a threat without a Chalice, they will often (correctly) decide that getting rid of your threat is the best option. Then you get to try and draw a threat while they melt your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasa_batora
2. Same way as before, only this time your Blood Moons say "Pyrokinesis" on them. Or Trinisphere, if you run them sideboard and your opponent is Burn. If you don't run Trinisphere, board in the Pyrokinesis anyway. You can always Pyrokinesis your own shit to get Hellbent faster in a distant pinch, and some burn decks run Fanatic/Spark/Ball Lightning. If you won the first game and the red deck is Goblins, boarding out Chalice for Pithing Needle is a good idea, as Needle is better against Goblins on the draw.
3. I generally side out one Magus for one Jitte, since I currently run 24 threats and keep Jitte #3 in my sideboard. Beyond that, all you should be doing is sending in Pyrokinesis for Blood Moon, except for possibly Trinisphere in for Magus against Goyf Sligh.
4. I assume Ancient Crypt means Ancient Tomb, and the answer is still usually no. Chalice for 1 and Jitte will usually fix things anyway.
5. Again. All red matchups get Pyrokinesis for Blood Moon. Needle comes in for Chalice against Goblins when you're on the draw. If you run Trinisphere in board, it comes in against burn, but not Goblins. As for Goyf Sligh, this is your call. I wouldn't board in the Trinispheres, but you could get decent results from doing so when you're on the play, and they would likely take Magus of the Moon's slot.
Pyrokinesis, unless you expect a ton of Empty the Warrens. Pyrokinesis is just flat out better than Pyroclasm in the modern metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill
I took this deck to a tournament to day so here's the report (this is my first report, so I don't know if it's good enough...)
Maastricht 1 March 2008
Participants: +/-30
Deck: Dragon Stompy
Decklist:
Main Deck:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
2x Akroma, Angel of Fury
4x Arc-Slogger Creature
4x Gathan Raiders Creature
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Sulfur Elemental
3x Blood Moon
4x Seething Song
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Snow-Covered Mountain
Sideboard:
3x Pithing Needle
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Trinisphere
1x Blood Moon
4x Pyrokinesis
Match 1: Strange combo with helm of awakening and egg’s…
G1: I start with T1 blood moon, and some threats, he tries to go off but fizzles and my dragon takes it home.
G2: I have an insane draw here with T1 chalice on 1, T2 trinisphere, T3 Chalice for 2, T4 magus of the moon, and turn 5 dragon GG, he didn’t have a chance…
Record: Matches: 1-0-0 Games: 2-0
Match 2: Affinity
G1: T1 chalice for 1, T2 slogger Good game…
G2: My deck kills me as I draw no threat’s and to much mana, so he kills me with arcbound stinger and frogmite…
G3: T1 trini, and hè doesn’t find a 3rd land, so my raiders take it home for me.
Record: Matches: 2-0-0 Games: 4-1
Match 3: B/w Deadguy ale
G1: T1 Moon, T2 chalice for 1 and he show’s me his hand witrh only white cards, no white sources…
G2: I take a mulligan to 5 and go for the T1 slogger since I don’t want to mull to 4, he finds edict, and my hand gets clogs up because of no mana…
G3: T1 chalice, T2 raiders, T3 moon, I keep drawing more threat’s than he draw’s answer’s and I eventually win....
Record: Matches: 3-0-0 Games: 6-2
Match 4: Goyf sligh
We Took an Id but still played a casual game
G1: Chalice for 1, magus of the moon, and a pit dragon kill him…
G2: I draw chalice, trini, magus, but he somehow just burns me down with the help^of rift bolt, incinerate, price of progres, I don't draw enough threat's and than he has 6 mana to throw 2 fireblast’s to my face so I die because of his burn and ancient tomb damage…
3: chalice for 1 and 2 + trini and hellbend raiders is something he just can’t stop…
Record: Matches: 3-0-1 Games: 8-3
Match 5: Bomberman/Salvager combo
G1: he counters my disruption, answer’s my threat’s and wins with his combo…
G2: same as game 1, but then worse because he has chill…
Record: Matches: 3-1-1 Games: 8-5 and my first top 8
Top 8: Deadguy Rock
G1: keep a good hand on the draw, but he goes thoughtseize on my blood moon, and play’s around my chalice sow doran an goyf smash my face.
G2: Mulligan T6: T1 magus of the moon on the play and GG
G3: Mull to five, still no moon, T1 chalice for 1, T2 chalice for 2, he vindicate’s my chalice, I drom slogger, he drop’s an 5/6 goyf, I throw 30 cards of my library at it, he plays another goyf and I die.
Record: Matches 4-2-1 Games: 8-7
I really love playing this deck, even though I lost a match that I should have won, because of the deck being it's inconsistent self again...
All in all it was a verry fun tournament :)
I was testing against a teammate playing U/G/r with DS and i was blown away.
the only game I won was with a first turn 3sphere, other than that he totaly blew dragon away. He plays basics (6 duals, fetchs, no moon effect) but blood moon did nothing. 1 game i managed to hold back his green mana until fire/ice hit my MotM. U/G/r really is giving me the most problems. How do you deal with thresh first game ? CotV is great but that`s only 4 cards, without 3sphere main first game is really hard
Against UGR, the MVP are Gathan Raiders and equipment, with Arc-Slogger a close second. Moons are only effective if it's turn 1 on the play and if it's Blood Moon (Magus gets burned); otherwise, you should focus on resolving a big dude that can't be Bolted and that will tear through Tarmogoyfs.
That is why playing a mammoth early on in the game gives the user an edge in doing large amounts of damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
Magus later on to damper the field so that way they waste burns to the face rather than find an easy way out to get rid of it.