[Deck] Reanimator

I have a quick question regarding Iona, Shield of Emeria. Does its "As Iona comes into play" clause make it work differently than a "When XXX comes into play" triggered one? In other words, can your opponent respond to you naming White with a Swords to Plowshares like they could for a "When XXX comes into play" or does the "As" prevent them from playing spells immediately?

Also, has anyone come up with a conclusive sideboard yet for this deck? I find one problem after the first game is deciding what kind of hate (if any at all) your opponent will board in against you. Should you always assume that they will board in hate and then board in based on your predictions? i.e., if you know they are playing black, there's a good chance Leyline might come down, so board in bounce spells. Is this guessing a good strategy? If you predict wrong, then you could run into a lot of useless Echoing Truths.

I have the following board so far:

3 Echoing Truth (Leyline, general problem permanents)
3 Engineered Explosives (Relic, Tormod's Crypt, rush swarm decks)
3 Pithing Needle (Relic and Tormod's Crypt, I've been thinking of adding a 4th)
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury (extra creature for decks heavy with white)
1 Woodfall Primus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sickening Dreams

Really, only the first 9 cards am I really sold on.

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Originally Posted by Linkin Pac

I have a quick question regarding Iona, Shield of Emeria. Does its "As Iona comes into play" clause make it work differently than a "When XXX comes into play" triggered one? In other words, can your opponent respond to you naming White with a Swords to Plowshares like they could for a "When XXX comes into play" or does the "As" prevent them from playing spells immediately?

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It isn't triggered so you can't response by plowing it. Just like Meddling Mage and Pithing Needle. It can't be Stifled either

Benie

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Originally Posted by Linkin Pac

Also, has anyone come up with a conclusive sideboard yet for this deck? I find one problem after the first game is deciding what kind of hate (if any at all) your opponent will board in against you.

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The two worst hoser cards against Reanimator are Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus. IMO, Chalice of the Void is a great choice. For zero cost, it can stop your opponent from laying down any Crypt; for only 2 mana it will stop them from using Relic.

The problem with that is that it can't stop both at ones. Chalice seems weak in your function, I'd much prefer something like Null Rod or even Pithing Needle. Before you see which hate the other person has, Chalice is pretty useless, after all.

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Originally Posted by JeroenC

The problem with that is that it can't stop both at ones. Chalice seems weak in your function, I'd much prefer something like Null Rod or even Pithing Needle. Before you see which hate the other person has, Chalice is pretty useless, after all.

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Null Rod, ok, but Pithing Needle? It has the very same problem that you just complained about - you can only use it against one or the other, but not both.

Also, Chalice shuts down many combo decks as well. It's also useful against Elf or Goblin decks with a lot of 1-mana creatures. For just two mana, Chalice completely stops any Dreadstill deck.

Nice. Chalice for 1. Shut off the Lackey and you shut off your Reanimate, Mystical Tutor, Careful Study..

I think you're overestimating how good Chalice is. It's a good card, but most likely not here in Reanimator.

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Nice. Chalice for 1. Shut off the Lackey and you shut off your Reanimate, Mystical Tutor, Careful Study..

I think you're overestimating how good Chalice is. It's a good card, but most likely not here in Reanimator.

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Well, if your opponent is playing Relic or Goblins, then in Game 2 I'm assuming that you've swapped out 1-cc spells in your deck with Chalice. I know that hurts, but it is usually worth the trade-off.

It also depends on how badly you need to protect your graveyard. If you can hardcast your big creatures, or have other ways of getting them out (Polymorph, Natural Order, etc), then Void, Crypt, or Relic aren't necessarily an automatic loss.

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The problem with Reanimator isn't that its inconsistent. Actually with Mystical Tutor and Entomb, its stupidly consistent. It's that it generally loses to top deck removal and counters. 4 FoW isn't enough to win counterwars, and Duress/Thoughtseize doesn't take care of topdecks.

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Play shroud guys. Run Spell pierce.

Going to throw a list together for tonight, see how it runs in a countertop/landstill meta.

EDIT: Does the animate dead/akroma not work anymore? And if so, what does that mean for animate/inkwell or anything else with shroud?

Nope, Animate Dead / Akroma doesn't work anymore due to the new oracle wording.

Oracle text: Enchant creature card in a graveyard
When Animate Dead enters the battlefield, if it's on the battlefield, it loses "enchant creature card in a graveyard" and gains "enchant creature put onto the battlefield with Animate Dead." Return enchanted creature card to the battlefield under your control and attach Animate Dead to it. When Animate Dead leaves the battlefield, that creature's controller sacrifices it.
Enchanted creature gets -1/-0.

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Originally Posted by Madmaniac21

EDIT: Does the animate dead/akroma not work anymore? And if so, what does that mean for animate/inkwell or anything else with shroud?

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Animate Dead will work on Inkwell. It does not work on Akroma. If you use it, she will come into play, but then the enchantment will be destroyed immediately and she will go back to the graveyard.

I've been doing a lot of testing since my last posts. My maindeck has remained the same except that I've changed my manabase to:

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
5 Swamp
7 Fetchlands

And my sideboard has changed to:

4 Echoing Truth
4 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierece
3 Ravenous Trap/Leyline of the Void Split
1 Hurkyl's Recall

I started testing Spell Pierece as a lark, really. Thinking "I wish I could run a counterspell in my board." And what it turned into was a great all around answer for problem MUs (Chalice aggro, Stax and Dreadstill) By boarding in Spell Pierece I'm able to keep a hand on the play that doesn't put Iona into play on turn 1 becuase I will have a means of dealing with whatever piece of hate that comes down.

The Echoing Truth/Krosan Grip split is simple:

If your opponent is playing blue, you board in Krosan Grip for the hate pieces that are going to come in. If you're going to have an answer for a hate card, let's not screw around with it getting countered. Also, by default a deck that is playing Blue is going to take a little longer to win as they spend the first X turns cantripping.

ELSE board in Echoing Truth. Eva Green boards in leylines, Zoo brings in crypts. Aggro decks do... something. Whatever they are going to board in it can be hit with Echoing Truth. Truth can also bounce some creatures if you need it to. Also, not affected by chalice @ 1, and unlike Chain of Vapor, it can't be used to return a creature if they play a problem card after you have a threat down.

Just my observations from testing.

Raven's Crime? Instead of Putrid Imp.
-Discard outlet.
-You can discard it for Study withoud any fuss, because it's still usable. Reanimator can do with a very few lands, so the rest can be discarded for it. And If you don't have any fatties in hand, you can get your opp to discard.
It's just sorcery speed but I think it's worth a try.
What do you think?

:0:

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Originally Posted by Torpere

Raven's Crime? Instead of Putrid Imp.
-Discard outlet.
-You can discard it for Study withoud any fuss, because it's still usable. Reanimator can do with a very few lands, so the rest can be discarded for it. And If you don't have any fatties in hand, you can get your opp to discard.
It's just sorcery speed but I think it's worth a try.
What do you think?

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I gave consideration to Raven's Crime when I was constructing my list but I decided to pass on it because I seldom want to be shipping my lands to the graveyard for the retrace cost and Putrid Imp blocks, which is odd to say that I want a block, but I really do.

Raven's Crime also does not allow me to discard with an Exhume on the stack (Specifically after a Crypt or Relic has been activated) which is huge.

and lastly, I use Tombstalker, so I sometimes want to be able to dump excess cards in a hurry to cast the stupid thing. Raven's Crime wouldn't afford me that ability.

Also, Raven's Crime gives my opponent the ability to choose what to discard, and I intend for them to have several dead cards against me even prior to an Iona coming into play. So the benefit isn't so hot for me.

But, perhaps it would be good in some kind of B/g Loam/Reanimator deck where you can have the solid back-up plan of using manlands and wasteland to disrupt your opponent.

That sounds interesting enough to try to assemble.

Another problem with raven's crime is the fact that warren's weirding, edicts and gatekeeper of malakir are evil. Putrid imp is cool at this.

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Originally Posted by Maveric78f

Another problem with raven's crime is the fact that warren's weirding, edicts and gatekeeper of malakir are evil. Putrid imp is cool at this.

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I fully agree here and should have started that earlier. That have been multiple games won thanks to Putrid Imp giving his life to protect Iona or any other fatty from an untimely demise.

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Originally Posted by Folkien

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [u] Underground Sea
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Island

// Creatures
2 [JU] Hapless Researcher
1 [DVD] Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 [CNF] Inkwell Leviathan
1 [JU] Phantom Nishoba
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
1 [ALA] Empyrial Archangel
3 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
1 [PS] Rushing River
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [US] Exhume
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [DVD] Dark Ritual
2 [MI] Mystical Tutor

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The snow-covered land are just fetiche.
Rushing river and wipe away are amazing when you're playing against chalice of the void.
Putrid imp and hapeless researcher are just defensive against any kind of "target player sacrifice a creature" cards.
And the fatties with shroud are just un-freaking-believable.

I don't know what could be a right side, i'm using this so far

3xShow and Tell
4xEchoing Truth
1xRushing River
3xPithing Needle
1xMolder Slug
1xBlazing Archon
1xSundering Titan

expecting feedback, saludos

I'm overwhelmingly in against using Mystical Tutor in the deck, I'm glad to see that at least you're only using it as a 2-of.

I don't know if you're really using enough blue cards to support Force of Will, but there is good news. Its called Spell Pierce. It counters everything that you want it to without being Force of Will.

As far as your creature selection - in my deck I wanted to figure out what the most important creatures to have on the table would be, for me its Iona, Shield of Emeria. I run 4 (3 right now, but that may change) to have the maximum chance of being able to discard an Iona to Putrid Imp or Careful Study and win the game with her. I suggest you find the same thing, even if you don't think that creature is Iona. You pack as many of your best creature and then back it up with a few special needs creatures.

Phantom Nishoba has happily been outclassed as the Lifegain option. You may not move on to Sphinx of the Steel Wind. It may not gain 7, or trample, but it does fly, both attack and block, have protection from Tarmogoyf and kill just about anything except Akroma before it can touch it. The only downside is that while in your graveyard all Tarmogoyfs will likely get +1/+1

I have ranted about the glories of Putrid Imp and I'm glad to see you using him, but he really shines if you can fit Cabal Therapy into your deck. Therapy is the most unbalanced discard spell ever (Aside from Balance) an if you have a creature to spare, can turn unassuming hands into devastating fits of ripping your opponent's hand apart.

I would never run FoW in reanimator, just 'case it already runs so much card-disadvantage I need all the cards I can get as is. That's just me though.. my deck literally drops its hand so fast, by turn 2-3 I'll be down to like 1 card half the time ;P

I've always been a fan of Duress, but glad Shake mentioned Cabal Therapy 'cause I was almost thinking of trying something... a friends been using Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy in a dark depths deck and its just brutal.
I'm deffinitely interested in testing Bloodghast & Therapy in Reanimator just because its that good.
If I think about it, it would work great with putrid imp as well, which can be used to throw a fatty in the GY then sac to cabal therapy. Bloodghasts offer more aggro... sorta like adding Starch to the deck to thicken it Lol, but what I mean is say I'm running careful study/Buried Alive, having cards like Bloodghast not only offer great synergy with Therapy but provide another means of beating opponent

http://www.tipo1.it/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13569

Iona Reanimator gets 4th out of 135.

Venturini Stefano - IONA Reanimator - Top 4

1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta

4 Dark Ritual
3 Reanimate
3 Mystical Tutor
4 Entomb
2 Ponder
2 Intuition
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Duress
4 Careful Study
3 Exhume
1 Wipe Away

2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Blazing Archon

Sideboard:

4 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Reverent Silence
1 Damnation
1 Wipe Away
3 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam

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Originally Posted by Master Shake

I'm overwhelmingly in against using Mystical Tutor in the deck, I'm glad to see that at least you're only using it as a 2-of.

I don't know if you're really using enough blue cards to support Force of Will, but there is good news. Its called Spell Pierce. It counters everything that you want it to without being Force of Will.

[...]

Phantom Nishoba has happily been outclassed as the Lifegain option. You may not move on to Sphinx of the Steel Wind. It may not gain 7, or trample, but it does fly, both attack and block, have protection from Tarmogoyf and kill just about anything except Akroma before it can touch it. The only downside is that while in your graveyard all Tarmogoyfs will likely get +1/+1

I have ranted about the glories of Putrid Imp and I'm glad to see you using him, but he really shines if you can fit Cabal Therapy into your deck. Therapy is the most unbalanced discard spell ever (Aside from Balance) an if you have a creature to spare, can turn unassuming hands into devastating fits of ripping your opponent's hand apart.

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I've been trying your approach and I'm in love with Tombstalker, I think it's a clever adition which just adds consistency, allowing yo to do something while you assemble your combo pieces.

@ Creatures: Iona is obviously the MVP, just naming white against decks running white is "shroud enough". Against things like Canadian Threshold, naming blue wins you the game, and there are just too many examples. Sphinx is also nice against aggro decks not packing Path to Exile (and even against those, it can win you the game before the can exile her).

I've also toyed around with a more blue version, removing some stuff in order to pull some FoWs, Brainstorms and a pair of Mystical (mostly to up the blue count), and it hasn't disappoint me, although I haven't had a large amount of relevant testin. However I am very unsure about Dark Ritual.