Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Well Lewis has obviously tested his deck, and I haven't, however it's anything but "standard" card choices.
First and foremost I'm not sure I see the point of white with only 2 Plows. He admits Merfolk is a tough matchup, running more spot removal would help with that.
Random Isochron seems like a good idea actually, but Deed + Wish in the same deck is definitely new... or it's so old we've forgotten about it.
Tempest of Light in the wishboard is funny, but how often do you really run into Enchantress? Tsabo's Decree is even funnier, but aren't you already in a pretty good board state against tribal if you can resolve a 6 mana spell?
I do like that he has outs to Iona in every color, and several ways to deal with Shroud guys. Perhaps the best argument for keeping a white splash is the psychological effect of the Reanimator player seeing a Tundra, automatically assume 4 Plows, and name white w/ Iona.
Are 2 Loams necessary? Seems he might be overvaluing wastelock, and you never want to draw a second.
He says he wants to fit in a 4th Jace, but, I think some more 1cc spot removal or Edicts would serve the deck better.
Heck, what do I know, I'm just a goober on a message board.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I imagine that Loam's function isn't primarily for a wastelock, but rather for card advantage and consistently hitting your landdrops against stifle/waste. In that respect, the second loam is like an additional land.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dearleader
I imagine that Loam's function isn't primarily for a wastelock, but rather for card advantage and consistently hitting your landdrops against stifle/waste. In that respect, the second loam is like an additional land.
It can also help recur Mishra's Factories that get murdered, so that you're not left with zero win conditions apart from Jace 2.0's ultimate.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I agree that there's several uses for Loam, which makes it interesting that the "evolved" list cut Loam entirely. (as described in the recent article= http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...In_Legacy.html) Still too slow perhaps?
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
This is my first time to post here but I have been a member of these forums for a long time now. I have also been using 4C Landstill since it came out (with Stifles and Disenchant maindeck.) but switched to BGW rock for about a year because of Merfolks.
Anyway, here is a build that I used during the side event in GP Manila 2010 and I landed 8th spot out of 127 players (5-1-1). Sadly, it was just straight swiss because we had no time to do the top 8. If we did, we would finish later than the main event. lolz
Here was my build during the event:
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Fact or Fiction
1 Misdirection
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Innocent Blood
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Humility
1 Decree of Justice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monastery
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Plains
1 Island
SB:
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wrath of God
1 Disenchant
1 Misdirection
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Extirpate
3 Ivory Mask
4 Leyline of the Void
There is no Jace because I don't have it (and I don't think I will spend that much) but if I was able to borrow one, I think I will remov 1 Humility. I really love the deck.
Let me explain some of the unusual cards in the deck.
Misdirection - our meta is really wacky because there are many legacy players that we don't usually see. One tournament, the meta was merfolks, then black with discarders during another tournament, next thing you know red in your face burn would come up in the next. Its really wacked so I always put the MD MisD. ?I know I only have 19 blue cards but there were times it helped a lot.
2 Humility - sometimes, I think P.Deed is too slow and there are times that I don't have the mana to clear the board at once. I chose Humility in cases of going against big creatures. Sometimes, Rock decks come up as well as Bant. There were many times that Humility has protected me against 10/10 KotRs or Progenitus. But sometimes, its also not that good of a card in hand. As I said, if I have Jace TMS, I would remove the other Humility.
SB:
I SBd against my weakest matchups. Leyline of the Void, Extirpate, and E. Truth for Ichorid and Reanimator, Ivory Mask and MisD for Red Burn and, even if it sounds silly, Ad Naus (many times have I protected myself and brought this card down), BEB for Gobs, Zoo, and Burn, Disenchant for artifact shenanigans, Wrath of God for extra creature kill (usually I board out 1 Humility and put in Wrath in case they have something for Humility)
Here were my matchups and a quick report:
Round 1 - Reanimator
Game 1 - I can't remember who played first but I think he did. He played fetch, cracked it, went for Underground Sea. He played Thoughtsieze which I Forced because I was holding a juicy hand of Innocent Blood and Standstill. He was done. He played Careful Study on his turn. He discarded a card and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. I played a fetchland. He Reanimates Sphinx and loses 8 life. It died with Innocent Blood. I was able to put Standstill in play and was able to control the game from there. He had no counters in hand and no business spells. Nantuko Monastery for the win.
Game 2 - In comes Leyline of the Void and it comes into play in turn 0. He was having trouble with it and I was able to build my mana base and I was pretty much confident I can protect it. My Mishra's Factory was sort of going all the way. There was Standstill in play when he broke it with Mystical Tutor calling for Show and Tell. I was ready on what will be put into play because if it was Iona, I was holding Innocent Blood, Swords, and Echoing Truth. He played Show and Tell, and he brought down Woodfall Primus. I brought down another Leyline of the Void which I got when he cracked Standstill. He destroyed the other LoTV, but still needed to deal with the new Leyline of the Void. I played Innocent Blood. Factory all the way to the win.
1 - 0
Round 2 - A rogue deck. UGW Hunting Grounds Thresh control
Game 1 - When he played a Seaside Citadel, I was wondering if he was playing Bant. I played a second turn Standstill. No lands came after that and he was on the roll with his lands. He was able to bring down Hunting Grounds and had lots of cards from his lands and Deep Analysis. I was pretty interested on what the deck could do as it also had Nantuko Monastery. He then played Living Wish and got Mystic Snake. I knew that if I played a spell, he will use Hunting Grounds and then bring down the Snake to counter everything. I tried to sneak out of the Snake by playing Standstill which he countered with the Snake. Then I thought that was good bait, I played Elspeth but he was holding another Mystic Snake. Eventually I lost because he had more lands, and he had a ton of counters (counterspell, Absorb, Memory Lapse, the works). I did notice though that he had no Force of Wills (or nothing came out), or Wastelands.
Game 2 - it ended in an instant. A judge came and he was asked for the legibility of his deck. He got a game loss for misregistering his deck. His deck was a total of 64 in the list and was only using 60. He wrote 4 Counterspell twice. Measly win for me. (not really proud of the win)
Game 3 - We were land dropping. I was able to get to 5 lands. And seeing how his deck worked, it had no removal for end of turn triggered shenanigans like cycling Decree of Justice for two and then playing Standstill on my turn. I think he tried to counter it but I was able to protect it. I was attacking for two when during his turn, he has decided to play Wrath of God to kill the two scldiers (he was far away from getting into Threshold for the Nantuko Monastery as he was not able to discard). From Standstill, I got Extirpate. I Extirpated his Counterspell first and removed a Counterspell in his hand. He had Memory Lapse. So I countered the Wrath to bait the Lapse and completely took out his counters. He Lapsed it and it was good. It was easy riding from there. Nantuko Monastery and Mishra's Factory came into play plus Elspeth.
2-0
Round 3 - Dredge
Game 1 - He played Gemstone Mine. I shivered because it was dredge. He was dredging to oblivion. I was thinking of stopping the horde with Engineered Explosives for 0, but he had 2 Ichorids, about 2 Narcomeobas, and a 7/7 Golgari Grave Troll. I scooped when I was down to 12.
Game 2 - I had Extirpate in my hand and was a risky hand. I played it. I think he mulled and during his turn, he just drew and said done. I played a land. He discarded Golgari Grave-Troll during his turn. I Extirpated it and found only in his hand is a Golgari Thug for a dredger, and a Putrid Imp. He did nothing on his turn to discard the Thug. I Extirpated it to delay him again. I was also able to hardcast Leyline of the Void. He then played a land, played Putrid Imp. I misplayed here because I could have played Standstill the turn before in order to draw some cards. In order to protect myself, I played Explosives for 1 to destroy the imp in case he topdecks Ray of Revelation (which I saw in his deck from Extirpate) and destroy LoTV. I was able to control the game here as Elspeth and Mishra's factory tag-teamed to victory.
Game 3 - It was a turn 0 Leyline. I was getting into control mode when time was called up. Mishra was my only beater in play and it was not enough. I wish I had Hatred in my SB so I could win. :P
2 - 0 - 1
Round 4 - BW Ale
Game 1 - He discards my hand to oblivion as I didn't know what deck he was playing until he fetched for a Scrubland. I lost as I was drawing no business spells. I was drawing the deck's specialty, land...
Game 2 - Humility came down. All of his creatures were 1/1. Problem is, he brought down to Bad Moons into play so everything went up to 3/3 from his end. I got Pernicious Deed. I blew up everything except for Humility. I won.
Game 3 - No business or draw spells. Just land. Yeah! I am proud of you Landstill! You live up to your job.
2 - 1 - 1
Round 5 - UG Faerie Goyf deck.
Game 1 - I played Standstill. He tried to Daze my Standstill, I countered it. He allowed it and Standstill goes through. He played Mutavault. I shivered. I thought I was playing Merfolk, a bad matchup for me (although still winnable). He attacked a few turns but I was able to play Mishra's Factory and stopped it. He then played Cloud of Faeries. It was killed. After dropping a few creatures and killing everything that comes into play, he conceded as there were no more cards in his hand and I had a load of manlands in my end.
Game 2 - the same thing happened in game 1. This time though, he was able to drop Goyf. Everything was killed. He ran out of juice and I won.
3-1-1
Round 6 - In-your-face Red (Possibly my worst matchup)
Game 1 - He played Mountain (I hoped it was Goblins) and he played Rift Bolt. Another bad matchup for me. Probably the worst. In-Your-Face Red is something that I cannot stop. I tried to race with my lone Mishra's Factory but eventually, I died.
Game 2 - He played a one land hand. He discards about 3 times. He discarded Price of Progress because it was uncastable. I made a misplay as I had Extirpate in my hand. I only realized it the turn after. I Extirpated Price of Progress only to find out he had 2 more holding in his hand. I thanked God for that. I was then able to play Ivory Mask. Yeah. From what I heard, red has no enchantment removal.
Game 3 - I was able to bring down Ivory Mask again but this time, he was now on a red creature beatdown. (Also forgot that Hellspark Elemental had trample and is not a spell when it comes from the GY). I was able to bring him down to 12 when the last 5 turns came up. Turn 1 was with him and he suspended Rift Bolt. On my turn, I went for an all out attack with 2 Nantuko Monasteries and a Mishra's Factory. I was down to 5 by this time. He was computing something when he played Volcanic Fallout. I knew something was up and it might be a double Volcanic Fallout (even though it might kill him) or something next turn since he had a lot of mountains. So I STPd my Mishra's Factory to bring me back to 5 life and he would still be at 2 life (2 Nantuko Monasteries and Volanic Fallout) so I can finish on my turn. During his turn, we thought that Rift Bolt would be fizzeld but it was stopped and backtracked. Good thing a judge was there. I asked if Rift Bolt should still be played as long as it had a legal target. Since I cannot be the target of Rift Bolt, he needed to target himself. She said that is correct. My opponent had to target himself. I won.
4-1-1
Round 7 - Countertop Slivers
Game 1 - He had a whole lot of land on his side. And he had Sensei as well. I guess he really had nothing as not a lot of slivers came into play. I killed Crystalline with Innocent Blood, and killed other one. Even if he had Counter-Top going, he was still playing lands. Humility came in to seal the deal. I won.
Game 2 - A Vial came into play on the first turn. I tried to FoW it. He Dazed it. I played Engineered Explosives for 1 as I can't get my engine going with that bothersome artifact. I was glad I was able to destroy it but he played another one. Good gracious. The only slivers he was able to drop were Muscle Sliver, the white version of Muscle Sliver, and Crsytalline. I was attacking with my Nantuko Monastery and he tried to chump block it. I was supposed to put it in my GY when it was noticed that Monastery has first strike and would not die to 2 3/3 slivers. He was able to drop another one I think but I played WoG (first time in the tournament to play my WoG). It lasted for a few more turns. I was really making the wrong plays here as I was threatened by Vial. I only noticed it some more turns that he had two counters on the Vial, and was not dropping a lot of Slivers. So after getting the right amount of land, I played Elspeth, Standstill. Next turn, I attacked with Nantuko Monastery with Elspeth's pump ability and brought him down to 1 life. When he drew his card, he conceded.
5-1-1
Most used cards from the SB:
Extirpate
Disenchant
Wrath of God
Echoing Truth
Well thats my short report (should this be in the reports section? I'm not sure because we still don't have the t8 decklists. Give me a warning if I'm wrong) I do have some questions when it comes to the experiences of other people.
1. Which would be better? Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds? Or do a 1-1 split between the cards and put them in the deck?
2. How does Academy Ruins work for everybody here? I like the recursion it does but sometimes, I want to rip it for drawing it too early.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Another BUG Landstill deck: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36662
No recursion engine as Jace allows for an alternate win conditions not contigent on anything other than a stable board. Thoughts?
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
It's identical -- card for card, even the sideboard -- to the list that Charles Gordon took 13th place with at the Star City Games Legacy Open in Seattle a couple weeks back. Which happens to be the list that I've also enjoyed the most in my recent testing. I like the simpler mana base compared with that from a version that also runs white, like Lewis Laskin's, and four Jace is absolutely correct (if terribly, terribly expensive at the moment).
The hardest matchup that I've tested yet has been ANT, since it basically comes down to whether I'm holding a counter for his Chant or enough of them to survive a Duress or Thoughtseize, but that deck is going to be much, much less prevalent shortly (about which I'm kind of sad, to be honest). I haven't done a broad variety of testing with it, though, to be perfectly honest, mostly just against the ones that show up most frequently at my local weekly events.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Is anyone working on this still? It seems like it has potential, especially now that ANT is rotating. Will the removal package change though?
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CorpT
Is anyone working on this still? It seems like it has potential, especially now that ANT is rotating. Will the removal package change though?
I am, for what it's worth. I've been pretty happy with my main, for the most part. It's identical to the list Arsenal posted above, except I've dropped one Wasteland for a second Island, which I'm not sure was the right decision. I might put the fourth Wasteland back in and drop a fetch instead, or maybe one of the Underground Seas. I've had really good success with it, except versus Dragon Stompy and New Horizons, the former of which absolutely wrecked me with early moons and chalices, and the latter of which got lucky Wasteland topdecks and kept me off my mana. I'm not sure what, if any, changes should be made to account for these matchups.
My sideboard has been in a state of constant flux, to the point where I can't even post what I ran because I don't remember. I'm thinking of putting in a few Life from the Loam to deal with Wasteland locks, and maybe running a Forest main. I dunno. I'm open to ideas.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fdiv_bug
I am, for what it's worth. I've been pretty happy with my main, for the most part. It's identical to
the list Arsenal posted above, except I've dropped one Wasteland for a second Island, which I'm not sure was the right decision. I might put the fourth Wasteland back in and drop a fetch instead, or maybe one of the Underground Seas. I've had really good success with it, except versus Dragon Stompy and New Horizons, the former of which absolutely wrecked me with early moons and chalices, and the latter of which got lucky Wasteland topdecks and kept me off my mana. I'm not sure what, if any, changes should be made to account for these matchups.
My sideboard has been in a state of constant flux, to the point where I can't even post what I ran because I don't remember. I'm thinking of putting in a few Life from the Loam to deal with Wasteland locks, and maybe running a Forest main. I dunno. I'm open to ideas.
Cool. My group has been working on this too. We've changed around the removal suite a little to include Smother and not Innocent Blood. So far we've been doing pretty well with it. Our issue has been around Zoo with a lot of burn. I was playing Burn last night and it just seemed like pre- and post- board the Zoo match up was rough unless you drew a lot of spot removal so that you could stabalize at a relateively high total and then fight off the burn with counters.
Have you done much testing against Zoo? Any thoughts or expereince? The other aggro MUs weren't nearly as bad, even Merfolk, because none of them really had the isntant speed reach that Zoo has.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
So, here's my most recent list, that I've been quite pleased with:
4 Standstill
4 Spell Pierce
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Innocent Blood
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Life from the Loam
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Propaganda
3 Perish
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Life from the Loam
1 Helm of Obedience
The two Loam main could conceivably live in the board full-time, depending on your meta; locally, we've got approximately 4 times as many Wastelands as players in any given event, so I've liked having them main. They come out against Zoo, CounterTop, and Dredge, among others. The single Helm in the board was a "Crud, I need a 15th card," kinda thing and is one of my pet combos, so it makes me giggle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Have you done much testing against Zoo? Any thoughts or expereince? The other aggro MUs weren't nearly as bad, even Merfolk, because none of them really had the isntant speed reach that Zoo has.
I, personally, haven't had much trouble against Zoo, but I seem to get really lucky with my draws whenever I play that match, so I don't put too much stock in that. The creatures obviously aren't much trouble, what with 4 Deed main and 2 Explosives in the board, but you are right in that the instant-speed burn can be quite problematic. Perish is all right, but Propaganda usually doesn't cost them enough, and they can just Qasali Pridemage it out of the way. I've thought about maybe using Chill, but I'd be afraid that'd be too narrow. Maybe Blue Elemental Blast? That'd at least be good against Dragon Stompy as well -- moon effects kinda wreck us -- but I wouldn't know where to fit it in. I'm totally open to other suggestions, should there be any.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I have been testing this build to good success lately.
3 Wasteland
2 Island
4 Tropical Island
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Counterspell
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
2 Relic of Progenitus
It's been testing really well against merfolks because of EE and pernicious deed. I had another ghastly demise in there but decided to cut it for explosives as they have been much more versatile.
The countermagic suite has been working pretty well for me as it's well rounded and with the help of wasteland, standstills are much easier to cast.
Although, I am very tempted to add Tarmogoyf in the deck but I'll save that discussion for another time.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mister Agent
It's been testing really well against merfolks because of EE and pernicious deed.
I like the idea of two Engineered Explosives main. I think I'm going to try swapping out the two Life from the Loam -- which I've had in my main because of how prevalent Wasteland is in our local meta -- with the two Explosives I keep in the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mister Agent
Although, I am very tempted to add Tarmogoyf in the deck but I'll save that discussion for another time.
I can totally understand this, and you can certainly give it a go, but I think I wouldn't. Our deck almost completely blanking their creature removal is a big deal to me. Game one they're likely to use their Swords to Plowshares on my Mishra's Factories because there's really not much else they can do with them, but my experience has been that in game two or three they move them out in favor of more focused solutions. You could bring Tarmogoyf out of the board, which would be hilarious, but I personally don't think it'd be worth the slots in the 75. Let us know how it goes if you do test it, though. :smile:
What are the opinions on Landstill's viability for the expected metagame at GP Columbus? I'm anticipating a lot of Zoo, Goblins, and Merfolk, along with a fair bit of CounterTop (both Bant and Thopter) and New Horizons. As far as combo goes, I believe ANT is pretty well dead for the time being, but Belcher and Reanimator are still going strong, even though the latter's prevalence will be reduced as it's not quite as Cheatyface as it was with Mystical Tutor. I'm ginning up a sideboard that I will submit for consideration once I've gotten it pinned down to make sure I haven't missed anything, but I am curious about how people think the event is going to look.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I also have been liking EE against zoo because it can kill multiple 1 drops and so you don't have to stress playing a deed until later. In other words, my list is metagamed to fight against any aggro deck.
With the results Ugb Landstill has been putting up lately, I would think Ubg Landstill seems like a pretty decent choice for GP Columbus. You seem to have alot of tools to fight goblins, zoo, and merfolks. Also, my testing results against New horizons has also been positive. Crucible, wasteland, innocent blood, spell snare, and EE/deed at 3 is great there. Not to mention, postboard, extirpating their wastelands helps quite a bit especially if you want to be in a good position at playing under standstill through Mishra's Factory.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
A few lists have been doing well:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital.../tourn/1414819
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital.../tourn/1414866
A summary:
Code:
Flooded Strand 3 3 4
Polluted Delta 4 3 4
Island 1 1 1
Mishra's Factory 4 4 4
Wasteland 4 4 3
Mutavault 0 1 0
Scrubland 1 1 1
Tropical Island 2 2 3
Tundra 2 2 2
Underground Sea 3 3 2
Brainstorm 4 4 4
Standstill 4 4 4
Jace, the Mind Sculptor 3 2 4
Counterspell 3 4 4
Force of Will 4 4 4
Spell Snare 0 3 4
Spell Pierce 0 3 0
Daze 3 0 0
Sensei's Divining Top 3 0 0
Crucible of Worlds 2 2 0
Life from the Loam 0 0 2
Engineered Explosives 1 0 0
Innocent Blood 2 2 2
Pernicious Deed 3 4 4
Swords to Plowshares 4 4 4
Counterbalance 2 0 0
Cranial Extraction 1 0 0
Hydroblast 3 2 4
Innocent Blood 1 1 2
Krosan Grip 1 0 0
Relic of Progenitus 3 0 0
Spell Pierce 3 0 0
Threads of Disloyalty 1 0 0
CoP: Red 0 3 0
Engineered Explosives 0 2 2
Extirpate 0 3 3
Life from the Loam 0 1 1
Tormod's Crypt 0 3 2
Ravenous Trap 0 0 1
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Some things to note from these lists:
All are using White. It seems that the W splash is worth it. I was still skeptical, but will need to try it.
Crucible v Loam: I watched quite a few games of these and the Crucible was very good. I've been playing Loam on the idea that Crucible dies to Deed and Loam doesn't, but after watching the games, I want to try Crucible instead. The power of it was amazing and much bigger than Loam.
I still don't like Daze. Top is interesting though.
Based on these, I think I'm going to try something like this:
Flooded Strand 3
Polluted Delta 3
Island 1
Mishra's Factory 4
Wasteland 4
Mutavault 1
Scrubland 1
Tropical Island 2
Tundra 2
Underground Sea 3
Brainstorm 4
Standstill 4
Jace, the Mind Sculptor 4
Counterspell 4
Force of Will 4
Spell Snare 4
Spell Pierce 0
Daze 0
Sensei's Divining Top 0
Crucible of Worlds 2
Life from the Loam 0
Engineered Explosives 0
Innocent Blood 2
Pernicious Deed 4
Swords to Plowshares 4
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CorpT
Based on these, I think I'm going to try something like this:
*snip*
First, thanks for ginning this up!
I tried this list and I was actually surprised by how much of a difference the white makes. I guess the four-of, instant-speed kill is worthwhile, but I wonder if we could simply reverse the number of Innocent Blood and Ghastly Demise and achieve a similar effect without having to extend further our fragile mana base. Please note, I am in no way saying that Demise is as good as StoP -- the only thing that can ever be compared evenly to StoP is Path, and that depends entirely on the deck it's in -- but just trying to look for similar effects without having to extend into a fourth color. The toughness restriction on Demise can occasionally be problematic, and the only frequently seen black creatures I can think of wanting to kill would be Bob and Tombstalker; being unable to kill the latter would be a big deal in the occasional game because of how high its CMC is, since by the time you've got enough mana to Deed it you're probably already dead.
I'm on the fence, still, with Spell Snare versus Spell Pierce. I really like the edge that Pierce gives me in counter wars, and I think with all the removal we run letting Tarmogoyf through -- among others, of course -- isn't the end of the world, but Spell Snare is obviously much more valuable mid- to late-game.
Mutavault is clever, since it islandwalks against Merfolk and can be pumped by Mishra's Factory. I also replaced the Scrubland with a second Island, and was pretty happy with how that turned out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CorpT
Crucible v Loam: I watched quite a few games of these and the Crucible was very good. I've been playing Loam on the idea that Crucible dies to Deed and Loam doesn't, but after watching the games, I want to try Crucible instead. The power of it was amazing and much bigger than Loam.
I like how Loam is very difficult to counter, and dredging it back isn't horrible with Brainstorm in the deck. I've even done it blind, and it wasn't too terribly risky with the number of four-ofs we run. But Crucible is a great card and frees up mana once it's on the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CorpT
I still don't like Daze.
Me either, in this deck.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fdiv_bug
First, thanks for ginning this up!
I tried this list and I was actually surprised by how much of a difference the white makes. I guess the four-of, instant-speed kill is worthwhile, but I wonder if we could simply reverse the number of Innocent Blood and Ghastly Demise and achieve a similar effect without having to extend further our fragile mana base. Please note, I am in no way saying that Demise is as good as StoP -- the only thing that can ever be compared evenly to StoP is Path, and that depends entirely on the deck it's in -- but just trying to look for similar effects without having to extend into a fourth color. The toughness restriction on Demise can occasionally be problematic, and the only frequently seen black creatures I can think of wanting to kill would be Bob and Tombstalker; being unable to kill the latter would be a big deal in the occasional game because of how high its CMC is, since by the time you've got enough mana to Deed it you're probably already dead.
We tried this for quite awhile and it just didn't work. We were at 4x Demise, 2x Innocent and kept running into situations where a Nacatl beat us down way too far. It doesn't look like it would make that much of a difference, but we were surprised how much it actually did. That's why we went back to 4x Innocent, 2x Demise. But after seeing all of the good Swords results, I'm going to continue with that for awhile. The instant speed seems very relevant as well.
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I like how Loam is very difficult to counter, and dredging it back isn't horrible with Brainstorm in the deck. I've even done it blind, and it wasn't too terribly risky with the number of four-ofs we run. But Crucible is a great card and frees up mana once it's on the table.
I kept running into situations where I was grinding it out and wanted more land, but still wanted to keep mana open. Crucible just lets that happen so much easier. And the fact that you can keep recurring land under a Standstill is very important. I was just finding Loam to be too slow for me. It didn't help against the Aggro matchups where Crucible can. Just keep recurring blockers until you can find a Deed or more removal instead of spending 2 mana and losing a draw. It seems counter-intuitive to run Crucible, but I think I'm going to stick with it for now.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Hi everyone,
I have some experience with the deck already and I play the deck long enough that you might noticed me posting various results and decklists on mtgo (osmanozguney)
This is the 75 I played at the MOCS. I finished 3rd and lost twice to the same Survival deck at round 6 and the semis (1-2 both times).
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
2 Life from the Loam
2 Innocent Blood
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Scrubland
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
SB
4 Hydroblast
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Innocent Blood
and I went,
R.1-3 Bye
R.4 Death and Taxes 2-1
R.5 Merfolk 2-0
R.6 BG NO/Survival 1-2
R.7 Countertop Bant 2-1
R.8 Enchantress 2-0
R.9 Faeries 2-1
R.10 Zoo 2-0
R.11 New Horizons 2-0
R.12 BG NO/Survival 1-2
I was happy with my list all day long and if the MOCS were tomorrow i would play the same 75 (maybe switching the SB crypts for relics)
I believe that,
Swords power up this deck much more than the white splash weakens it. By simply replacing 2 U.Seas for Tundras and 1 Wasteland for Scrubland this list has 1 less black source than the traditionnal BUG and the same amount of white source.
The Instant speed and "remove from game" aspects all matters when u need to protect your life total from zoo and aggro. It matters when u need to protect Jace from manlands and hasty goblins. The lifegain matters since you can target your mishra's for some life if needed.
Life from the Loam not only have more synergy with deed but can be used as the 3rd land with fetches (or wasted lands). This has a huge importance when playing against decks with wasteland (goblins, merfolk, DNT, New Horizons...). I would have lost some of my matches to manascrew if my loams were crucibles.
Loam has better synergy with brainstorm and Jace than crucible since basically every loam becomes an ancestral recall.
Extirpate is a strong SB in actuel metagame. It stops top of library tricks, is good vs any graveyard strategy like dredge- reanimator but also vs mirror and counterbalance and some combo decks like doomsday or dreadnought-mossworth bridge.
The same versatility is true for thoughtseize which comes in vs all the combo based strategies. This is also important since there is such diverse field today that i cant justify playing something that is only good vs 1 archetype only like COP red or Llawan.
Gl if u play UBGW Landstill in your future events!
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
So I was up in Columbus for the Grand Prix this past weekend -- I was running Excalibur because I wasn't quite comfortable with any Landstill options available to me, even though it is my preferred deck, and went 5-4 on day one -- and in watching the Top 8 I saw this awesome UBg Landstill list being run by Jason Ford, who took 3rd/4th:
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Innocent Blood
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Life from the Loam
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
// Wishboard
1 Back to Nature
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Forbid
1 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Stifle
1 Submerge
1 Tsabo's Decree
I put it together Sunday afternoon and was really pleased with how it performs. Love me some wishboard action! Can do some awesome stuff with it, like in my testing against the Ub Merfolk list that Saito won with, where I cracked Pernicious Deed, killing his AEther Vial, and then wished for an Extirpate to hit it with. In another game, we had both been sticking Standstill like mad, and so I had 10 cards in hand during his turn. He tried to cast something, so I wished for Forbid, and tossed some lands to buy it back. The next turn I dropped another Standstill. :smile:
Thoughts?
