All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by Scordata

I'm not even trolling - but I want to see Frantic Search come off the list just so I can flash it back with Snapcaster.

I hope Misstep stays legal, cause it limits how much garbage I have to play against.

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Agreed...I would hate to play against Thropter counterbalance again. That deck is just as bad as landstill

I would be fine with MM banned, just so I can have 4 free slots in Goblins :D

Wow Ponder is going to be banned in Modern, didn't see that coming. The plot thickens...

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e161a_icon.jpg

So, when does the new B/R get posted?

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Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

So, when does the new B/R get posted?

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Around midnight I guess, it's not up yet.

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

Wow Ponder is going to be banned in Modern, didn't see that coming. The plot thickens...

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e161a_icon.jpg

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Another reason not to play modern.

Actually the reason they are showing you Ponder so early is to indicate that they are unbanning it in Vintage.

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Originally Posted by Shax

Actually the reason they are showing you Ponder so early is to indicate that they are unbanning it in Vintage.

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I don't keep up with the Vintage scene so I wasn't aware of that. Why would it get unrestricted in Vintage?

Currently I'm playing EDH and Legacy... Vintage used to be fun until wizards made storm and it sucked the fun out of the format.

Or they are just showing Ponder because they like the art and because "pondering" is kind of related to the ban list.

Maybe it is unbanned in vintage though.

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Originally Posted by Lancer

Currently I'm playing EDH and Legacy... Vintage used to be fun until wizards made storm and it sucked the fun out of the format.

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Shops and blue decks are dominant now. Dark Ritual decks need a lot of help currently.

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Originally Posted by Lancer

Currently I'm playing EDH and Legacy... Vintage used to be fun until wizards made storm and it sucked the fun out of the format.

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Shops and blue decks are dominant now. Dark Ritual decks need a lot of help currently.

They could be switching preordain and ponder on the vintage restricted list i.e. ponder unrestricted and preordain restricted (not sure what that would accomplish really).

Ponder is a fair card. I don't see it getting banned in modern and if it gets banned in standard I'll lol.

But yeah, one hour and 48 minutes to go by my clock.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Another reason not to play modern.

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Legacy still exists, that's the only reason I need.

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

Legacy still exists, that's the only reason I need.

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I'll be a sad panda if brainstorm gets banned in legacy. Or mental misstep. Sorta defeats the purpose of eternal formats if you are always wondering if your older card will get banned.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

You seem to be missing the distinction between a threat and an answer. One of them requires answering, and the other, typically, does not.

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Mental Misstep is a threat, to your tempo in Legacy.

Mental Misstep is the opposite of the moxes, the most similar card to it. Moxes let you skip ahead a turn. MM let's you steal your opponents first turn. It offers the same tempo swing as a mox, just in reverse and at the cost of two life.

I am almost certain it will get the axe.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

Mental Misstep is a threat, to your tempo in Legacy.

Mental Misstep is the opposite of the moxes, the most similar card to it. Moxes let you skip ahead a turn. MM let's you steal your opponents first turn. It offers the same tempo swing as a mox, just in reverse and at the cost of two life.

I am almost certain it will get the axe.

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http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons...jpg?1248715065

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

I would not complain if Goblin Recruiter, Earthcraft, Land Tax, Worldgorger Dragon, Mind Twist, or Black Vise were to come off the list.

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It would be sweet if, instead of banning anything, they unbanned all these cards.

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Originally Posted by BKclassic

It would be sweet if, instead of banning anything, they unbanned all these cards.

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I'd rather wizards added stuff to give us reasons to play other colors rather than take away from the format.

If Mental Misstep was a "threat" because it has an impact on any aspect of the game (in your post: tempo), then almost every card in Magic could be considered a threat to any kind of ressource. Duress is a threat to the cards in your hand, Stone Rain to your lands, Mind Funeral to your library.

Because such a definition completly invalidates the term "threat" it is not used in the way you use it. In general Magic, "threats" are cards that will win the game if not answered.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

If Mental Misstep was a "threat" because it has an impact on any aspect of the game (in your post: tempo), then almost every card in Magic could be considered a threat to any kind of ressource. Duress is a threat to the cards in your hand, Stone Rain to your lands, Mind Funeral to your library.

Because such a definition completly invalidates the term "threat" it is not used in the way you use it. In general Magic, "threats" are cards that will win the game if not answered.

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You're arguing with someone that just compared Mental Misstep with a card that is considered one of the pieces of the Power of Nine. A Mox, no less, where in the format it exists in, there is a whole deck designed specifically to screw anyone that uses it. Think about that for a second. It's like you're in the U.S Rangers and someone told you that the Boys Scouts are comparable just because both groups like to go into the woods.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I'd rather wizards added stuff to give us reasons to play other colors rather than take away from the format.

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That would involve aggressively costing them so that they couldn't be splashed.

Otherwise it'll just end up as a blue card hiding under another colour's frame.

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Originally Posted by nwong

That would involve aggressively costing them so that they couldn't be splashed.

Otherwise it'll just end up as a blue card hiding under another colour's frame.

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- They could easily do that. Double/triple costs, or multi-colored non-blue costs.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

If Mental Misstep was a "threat" because it has an impact on any aspect of the game (in your post: tempo), then almost every card in Magic could be considered a threat to any kind of ressource. Duress is a threat to the cards in your hand, Stone Rain to your lands, Mind Funeral to your library.

Because such a definition completly invalidates the term "threat" it is not used in the way you use it. In general Magic, "threats" are cards that will win the game if not answered.

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Stone rain would be a real threat if it cost two life instead of three mana.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

Stone rain would be a real threat if it cost two life instead of three mana.

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Moxen and Wastelands = Misstep is what I am getting from you.

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Originally Posted by menace13

Moxen and Wastelands = Misstep is what I am getting from you.

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In regards to tempo gain, yes. A mox puts you ahead of the opponent by a turn, mana cost zero. MM negates your opponents first turn, mana cost zero. Wasteland makes you sac your land drop, actual penalty, so MM does not equal wasteland.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

In regards to tempo gain, yes. A mox puts you ahead of the opponent by a turn, mana cost zero. MM negates your opponents first turn, mana cost zero. Wasteland makes you sac your land drop, actual penalty, so MM does not equal wasteland.

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Mental Misstep and Wasteland don't allow you turn one kills in any way like a moxen would.

Yessssssss 4 free slots in my deck!!!!!!!! =D

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Mental Misstep and Wasteland don't allow you turn one kills in any way like a moxen would.

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MM allow slow combos like Natural Order and Show and Tell kill you. Opposite of moxes.

No MOAR monkeys!

So next thing on the chopping block for endless whining is? Top again? lol

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Originally Posted by dahcmai

So next thing on the chopping block for endless whining is? Top again? lol

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If stoneforge makes countertop able to withstand Zoo and the like maybe but my bets are up to LED, Show&Tell and High Tide

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Unfortunately, it turned out poorly. Looking at high-level tournaments, instead of results having blue and nonblue decks playing Mental Misstep, there are more blue decks than ever. The DCI is banning Mental Misstep, with the hopes of restoring the more diverse metagame that existed prior to the printing of Mental Misstep.

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Really, perfect reasoning, and the format already looks more diverse. Goblins, Combos, CB+Top... good stuff, good stuff ^^

Gui, I agree. For once, the explanation for a banning decision in Legacy makes sense. R&D hoped that Mental Misstep would give non-blue decks a nice counter so that they could fight combo. However, it ended up giving blue decks a favorable matchup against non-blue decks (where it had previously been favorable to non-blue decks), while pushing combo to a very weak point.

Without Misstep, Legacy looks like this: Aggro > Control, Control > Combo, Combo > Aggro.

With Misstep, it looked more like this: Control > Aggro, Control > Combo, Combo > Aggro.

The banning of Misstep should return Legacy to a more balanced and healthier format.

I wonder if there are any other cards on WotC radar for banning?

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I wonder if there are any other cards on WotC radar for banning?

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Well the intent of MM was to put Brainstorm into check (as the mothership has explained), I dont thing we need a sliderule to figure this one.

I'm fine with the banning of MM as long as they give us a replacement. I think where they went wrong with MM was making it hit perms which made it an auto-include in blue decks.

I understand they were trying to give non-blue a card to fight combo as they said in the reasons for banning, which is admirable, as non-blue decks need a SB card to deal with turn 0 & 1 shenanigans. With this in mind though the ability to hit artifacts and creatures is pretty irrelevant to this goal.

I was thinking about it on the way to school, and I think the way they should go would be to print...

Mental Fixed-step U
Instant
You may pay 2 life rather than pay ~this cards~ casting cost.
Counter target instant or sorcery with cmc 1 or less.

So it would certainly no longer be an auto-include in every blue deck and would still be the SB card non-blue needs to fight through combo. Sure in theory, yeah it could still protect SFM turn 2 from Bolt, but without the ability to hit Vial or creatures I doubt anyone would MD 4.

Right now the only viable answers to combo outside blue either are Mindbreak Trap (which is dead vs. Reanimator and sucks vs. blue storm anyways), discard, or come down your turn 2 at earliest. Please WotC give us a "fair" answer for turns 0+1.

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

Please WotC give us a "fair" answer for turns 0+1.

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*Trembles violently*

Please WotC give us strong, red/black/white, unsplashable cards.

storm & high tide combo is back, damnit.

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

I'm fine with the banning of MM as long as they give us a replacement. I think where they went wrong with MM was making it hit perms which made it an auto-include in blue decks.

I understand they were trying to give non-blue a card to fight combo as they said in the reasons for banning, which is admirable, as non-blue decks need a SB card to deal with turn 0 & 1 shenanigans. With this in mind though the ability to hit artifacts and creatures is pretty irrelevant to this goal.

I was thinking about it on the way to school, and I think the way they should go would be to print...

Mental Fixed-step U
Instant
You may pay 2 life rather than pay ~this cards~ casting cost.
Counter target instant or sorcery with cmc 1 or less.

So it would certainly no longer be an auto-include in every blue deck and would still be the SB card non-blue needs to fight through combo. Sure in theory, yeah it could still protect SFM turn 2 from Bolt, but without the ability to hit Vial or creatures I doubt anyone would MD 4.

Right now the only viable answers to combo outside blue either are Mindbreak Trap (which is dead vs. Reanimator and sucks vs. blue storm anyways), discard, or come down your turn 2 at earliest. Please WotC give us a "fair" answer for turns 0+1.

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I think they are trying... they made MM and failed, and they've done a few things like Ethersworn, Gaddock and even Guttural Response, mana thite, among other hates... They will get there eventually