[Deck] Imperial Painter

You are giving their deck too much credit and playing into their hands by siding like that. If they force a moon they're down a card. So what if they have forest and swamp out already. They'll have to have fetches in the yard to cast any blue or double black spell. If they abrupt decay your moon then that is one less for a bridge, painter, welder etc. Blast jace and visions and try to deal with liliana before she goes too crazy. They don't run daze or spell pierce so you can safely jam stuff. Overloading their decays is the best plan. Sensei top is awesome in this matchup.

Board like this:
In 1 bridge, 1 RIP (maybe), out 1 spirit guide, 1 jaya (maybe). That's it. If they run revoker then bring in firebolt. I usually don't want firebolt since the only creature you care about killing is deathrite but I could be wrong. the matchup is usually heavily slanted our way anyways so it hasn't even mattered. The pyrite spellbomb is experimental so im not sure if its better yet than the 4th firebolt.

If you want to bring in the burn spells you could always go -2 tutor, -2 petal and take out jaya maybe for the burn and the bridge for maximum card advantage. Up to you. Again all the boarding should be done on the fly based on what you saw game 1, how you feel like approaching it etc. I don't run spellskite so I don't know what you want to cut.

Never take recruiters out in any matchup.

Imperial Painter v. U/R Painter on camera now @ Knoxville. This will be interesting...

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Originally Posted by Aesir

Imperial Painter v. U/R Painter on camera now @ Knoxville. This will be interesting...

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What are your thoughts on the match-up? How do you go about playing it?

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Originally Posted by kavaki

What are your thoughts on the match-up? How do you go about playing it?

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I don't play either deck myself, but I like the deck(s), and think they're fun to watch. In theory I would say that U/R Painter is favored, but that's a mere thought from analyzing both decks.

After watching the first game, it seems like your correct. It really seems like a match-up that is so pilot dependent. Also, Spiritual Focus. It seems pretty fun.

Hey y'all,
So I know the R/W version is pretty optimized at the moment, but I was wondering if anyone had any updates to the Mono-Red lists, which haven't been discussed as much recently. I just finished building Mono-Red in paper, but have been playing the deck for a few months now. So I'm not totally unfamiliar, nor an expert with it, but I have read most of the discussion in this thread. I will have the ability to make the white splash soon, but in the mean time I'm playing this:

9 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Ensnaring Bridge

SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Manic Vandal
SB: 1 Shard Phoenix
SB: 3 Firebolt
SB: 1 Koth of the Hammer
SB: 1 Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge

My LGS is basically all Delver variants, a couple BUG decks, and at least 2-3 Miracles players, Tezzeret Control, Affinity, and occasional Dredge, with a few players who can play literally anything each week. Perhaps that helps contextualize a few odd things like the Vexing Shusher and Shard Phoenix, as part of the build is trying to make counterspells and hymns as least impactful as possible. Also, the 1 Chandra/1 Koth split (w/ 1 more Koth boarded for the heavy Miracles presence) split is mostly to try both out, but so far both have proven spectacular in different ways when they come down. The 3 Thorns are completely dead pretty much always at my store, so while I'm not eager to take them out in case someone does switch to Storm, I do have some flexibility there for sure with my SB most of the time.
Main deck I was considering a Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal, or possibly a Great Furnace instead of a Mountain, but there are Wastelands aplenty here.
Any thoughts on tuning this up, beyond just jumping to the white splash?

Maybe minus a guide for a lotus in the main. Also I have seen some mono red lists run 3 gitaxian probe for added spice.

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Originally Posted by mcbain

Maybe minus a guide for a lotus in the main. Also I have seen some mono red lists run 3 gitaxian probe for added spice.

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It's important to remember why you're doing what you're doing when you make card choices, especially in a deck with a lot of silverl bullets and tutor effects. You've seen a lot of decks rung 3 guides and 2 petals, and that makes sense. But I'll guarantee you that 99% of those lists were R/W lists. Think about it - what's the only way that petal is actually better than guide? The ability to produce white mana. SSG is 100 times better in mono red lists because it can come out of your hand at instant speed and can be used as a creature if you're flooded. Definitely max SSGs before adding lotus petals in a mono-red list.

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Originally Posted by The Duressed

It's important to remember why you're doing what you're doing when you make card choices, especially in a deck with a lot of silverl bullets and tutor effects. You've seen a lot of decks rung 3 guides and 2 petals, and that makes sense. But I'll guarantee you that 99% of those lists were R/W lists. Think about it - what's the only way that petal is actually better than guide? The ability to produce white mana. SSG is 100 times better in mono red lists because it can come out of your hand at instant speed and can be used as a creature if you're flooded. Definitely max SSGs before adding lotus petals in a mono-red list.

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Doesn't the interaction with goblin welder favor having an extra petal? It can be very useful in conjunction with welder. I'm not an expert with the deck, just an observation.

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Originally Posted by Juice11

Doesn't the interaction with goblin welder favor having an extra petal? It can be very useful in conjunction with welder. I'm not an expert with the deck, just an observation.

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That's a fair enough point, but I'd say you're in an unusual scenario if you need to weld an artifact into a petal. It's not super common to have to cast SSG, either, but I would still choose the instant speed aspect of SSG. Plus I can't be the only person to have ended a game via SSG beats :tongue:

Even in my Rw list I like to run 4 guide for 1 petal. The main reason being : top on the board, blast in hands, guide on top of the library.

I think it is dependent on how many welders you run. If you are planing to run welder as a one off, then sure you can run with a single petal. But even then you still don't get the access to white as easily as you would with the two of them. Also Petal can be fetched with E tut while Ape can not. This is a very good thing to think about if you are playing around Daze.

Honestly, play as you think is best, but I really think that the benefits of petal are strong enough that having that extra one is worth risking the one event where it is worse.

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Originally Posted by RingoDeathStarr

Hey y'all,
So I know the R/W version is pretty optimized at the moment, but I was wondering if anyone had any updates to the Mono-Red lists, which haven't been discussed as much recently. I just finished building Mono-Red in paper, but have been playing the deck for a few months now. So I'm not totally unfamiliar, nor an expert with it, but I have read most of the discussion in this thread. I will have the ability to make the white splash soon, but in the mean time I'm playing this:

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Well I've been playing Mono-red for the last 9 months and have had a lot of success at my LGS these last two months this is my current list:

Deck: Imperial Painter

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:18
2 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Spells:22
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Blood Moon
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Koth of the Hammer

Lands:20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 City of Traitors
2 Great Furnace
6 Mountain

Sideboard:15
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Firebolt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Manic Vandal
1 Koth of the Hammer

My meta includes a couple of delver decks, manaless dredge, 12 post, elves, death and taxes, maverick, esperblade, jund, bant, and occasional other things depending on what people want to bring to the shop and try out.

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Originally Posted by mcbain

My list is the standard list with one spellskite in the board.

The bug decks all have one forest and swamp and know to fetch it turn one. Also they will not keep a hand that does not beat turn 1 Blood moon. The blue in the matchup almost always feels irrelevant, hence the blasts out. Welder and cannoist can be quite effective. 90% of the time you lose to goyf or DRS. Perhaps I was boarding one crypt and not two.

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I am not sure a hand that can do both those things is that common. The firebolt and moons can really punish them. And forcing them to abrupt decay is a win as your other perm emanates will land. I know jack has been testing the spellbomb but I really think in most instances firebolt is just plain better. I would not board Ot SDT in that matchup for crypts as you want to be the beat down and apply preassure. They have one source of CA so use your card advantage. And never board out Recruiter. Jesus guys.

Also I should say this and I hate being a dick here but I recently got to watch someone literally play my deck. Nice guy but he butchered the play and not just painter specific plays. They were fundamental plays and strategies of magic. I guess I have played so long that things like keeping EE in against elves seems intuitive to me. Or keeping in Jaya and Recruiters against a deck that doesn't make CA and only has 4-6 hard counters and four removal spells. As I mentioned before everyone should explore the old dojo archives. And I caution anyone from taking to much random advice from most people. Try and test for yourself. Most people are just wrong, myself included.

Seth

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Originally Posted by sroncor1

I am not sure a hand that can do both those things is that common. The firebolt and moons can really punish them. And forcing them to abrupt decay is a win as your other perm emanates will land. I know jack has been testing the spellbomb but I really think in most instances firebolt is just plain better. I would not board Ot SDT in that matchup for crypts as you want to be the beat down and apply preassure. They have one source of CA so use your card advantage. And never board out Recruiter. Jesus guys.

Also I should say this and I hate being a dick here but I recently got to watch someone literally play my deck. Nice guy but he butchered the play and not just painter specific plays. They were fundamental plays and strategies of magic. I guess I have played so long that things like keeping EE in against elves seems intuitive to me. Or keeping in Jaya and Recruiters against a deck that doesn't make CA and only has 4-6 hard counters and four removal spells. As I mentioned before everyone should explore the old dojo archives. And I caution anyone from taking to much random advice from most people. Try and test for yourself. Most people are just wrong, myself included.

Seth

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I don't think you are being a dick. I found I learned a lot more on how to properly sideboard and play the deck over the last few months from attending my LGS's weekly legacy tournament and play testing than anywhere else. Experience is always the final hurdle to playing a deck well it seems.

I did initially try a white splash last year and gave that up fairly quickly because I didn't like being susceptible to land hate early on, before I landed a blood moon. Is that truly an issue for anyone playing the white splash? Or was I just having a knee-jerk reaction. I've gotten pretty comfortable with my mono-red version.

I had a knee jerk reaction to write splash as well. It is more focused on combo with silver bullet backup which is generally where you want to be. Once you get used to it though it's hard to go back to mono red. Goblin welder, one of the strongest cards is extremely good in the white splash. This was also why I proposed the 3/1 split in mono red as it often had difficulty putting a artifact in the bin.

Regarding the BUG matchup, I don't feel I am giving them to much credit. I agree tops and recruiters are way to good to board out (was trying something new).

I often find their discard is to effective and quickly puts me behind on pressure. It also doesn't help that I've played the deck for so long that I ha E single handedly warped my local meta's mana bases. I never go up against an opponent that doesn't know what I'm playing.

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I've been playing the mono red version for a while now a well, running a very similar list to kkoie. I don't focus as much on powering welder, I use two but really only for combo recursion after a failed attempt. I focus my mainboard more toward more moon effects and extra blasts/removal, in the form of lightning bolt.

Top is your best card in any discard heavy matchup. You can set up turns so that no important card is in your hand on your opponent's turn, just use top to order the deck so that you play the key combo piece the turn that you draw it. I initially feared pox style builds more than anything and even sideboarded leyline of sanctity because of my paranoia about discard, but after playing the deck for a while I've realized that it's actually fairly consistent at giving you what you need to re-assemble, especially with a top on the field and something like a moon to give you some time.

BUG and Jund are both tough matchups. After they pick apart your hand they have a nice suite of removal that is great against painter. 1-2 abrupt decays/counterspells have to be baited out, and then you have to hope you can counter their maelstrom pulse or pernicious deed post board. It is not impossible however, and you can trade 1 for 1 with a lot of their cards. Be patient, and trade efficiently, then make your move when they are low on cards. Remember that even if they have removal, if you set up the combo correctly and quickly and leave mana up, you can activate stone in response to a spell. Don't try to go off too early, you need to sandbag for a bit in those matchups.

Occasionally you will get a game where you can break their manabase super early with a moon, then blast their basic they fetched turn one (if they even got one). Always take this opportunity, if you can turn off their removal you will close it out very quickly.

I play mono-r at my primary LGS because everyone there plays T1 greedy manabase madness, and blood moon is great. However some other local shops I go too play a lot of less interactive strategies like burn, combo, dredge, and other stuff. I am thinking about trying the white splash there because it can tutor for sideboard hate. Being able to grab bridge against sneak and show is nice too.

My most feared matchup is probably ANT. It's hate or bust in that matchup generally.

Hi. I am new here on source.

I have been searching for legacy deck I want to commit to and spend the big bucks to play!

So far I have mono red burn without fetchlands and also uups all spells.

But now from next paycheck I wanna put out 1000€ and get this Imperial painter most likely. I have been studying this deck for two days and it seems about what I was looking for.

I have been playtesting with my friends daze, fow, delver, stiffle, tarmogouf, sometimes phyrexian dreadnought with stiffle deck. (I can never remember if that is BUG delver or RUG delver but anyways)
I like that deck. I want to play a deck that does not scoop to any one card and that can also agro it's way to victory atleast sometimes. I do like combo type decks more. I very much love to play uups all spells in legacy and also storm in modern. But i feel that uups all spells looses to easily to one daze or fow that I would love something more consistent.

I also am not that found of the idea to invest into 10+fetch lands since I feel that their money price might drop after supposed reprint. I have no problem bying duals. I think they are solid investment!

In any case. I don't know which is over all stronger/better or more constent build Red white ipainter or red ipainter but I think what I want from my build. and these are questions I would love some input!

I wanna play 4 main blood moon and 2 main magus of the moon. does this seem solid If I go with red version?

I would love to play some great furnace since I would love to have gobling weilder in my deck.

I think I should play 1 phyrexian revoker, 1 gobling weilder and 1 1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. Since I can tutor what ever I need with imperial recruiter. Why run multiple copies of situational cards?:O

I think I want to have on the main or in the side 1 Vexing Shusher is he valid?

I think I want one Phyrexian Metamorph.

I don't want to run with main deck bridges beacause that is very situational or only 1 at most.

I would love to run 4 x Lion's eye diamond. I even saw some deck with infinite mana + infinite damage combo using that.

Is lion's eye diamond builds valid at todays meta?

I would love to run 4 ancient tomb and 3-4 city of traitors.

I dont want to run: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster or 1 Koth of the Hammer. I don't see any point at those cards at all!!:O


What do you think. those that have played or experimented with red imperial painter. am I even on the right page with my reasoning and ideas?

A lot of of your questions are answered in the Primer.

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Originally Posted by vhirvela

I don't want to run with main deck bridges beacause that is very situational or only 1 at most.

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Bridges are good against a lot of decks, unless you are running the white splash, having 3-4 main deck is needed to ensure you draw them

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I would love to run 4 x Lion's eye diamond. I even saw some deck with infinite mana + infinite damage combo using that.
Is lion's eye diamond builds valid at todays meta?

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LED's are used in a differn't deck. That would be the RU painter deck with trinket mages, and I believe they run 1 LED.

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I dont want to run: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster or 1 Koth of the Hammer. I don't see any point at those cards at all!!:O

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Then don't. There are a few schools of thought regarding planeswalkers, but generally Koth is ran as an alternate wincon against slower decks like Control. A resolved Koth against Miracles, for example, spells serious problems for them. Some pages back there was discussion regarding Chandra when a SCG employee played Imperial Painter and made it to the top 8 with it, using Chandra. I believe the conclusion was that Koth was better, but Chandra still has a few defenders. In the end it's preference.

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Originally Posted by vhirvela

Hi. I am new here on source.

I have been searching for legacy deck I want to commit to and spend the big bucks to play!

So far I have mono red burn without fetchlands and also uups all spells.

But now from next paycheck I wanna put out 1000€ and get this Imperial painter most likely. I have been studying this deck for two days and it seems about what I was looking for.

I have been playtesting with my friends daze, fow, delver, stiffle, tarmogouf, sometimes phyrexian dreadnought with stiffle deck. (I can never remember if that is BUG delver or RUG delver but anyways)
I like that deck. I want to play a deck that does not scoop to any one card and that can also agro it's way to victory atleast sometimes. I do like combo type decks more. I very much love to play uups all spells in legacy and also storm in modern. But i feel that uups all spells looses to easily to one daze or fow that I would love something more consistent.

I also am not that found of the idea to invest into 10+fetch lands since I feel that their money price might drop after supposed reprint. I have no problem bying duals. I think they are solid investment!

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When I decided to buy Painter, I went to buy Mono Red first, mostly because it's a few hundred dollars/euros cheaper, and I'd be able to play with it more quickly. Once you have the white splash, you can play either version, so I'm putting that together as well. I'd say do whichever one you can afford now, and then try both out eventually, as the cost isn't that much higher for white, and you can always build it if mono red isn't working for you. Also, I took the advice of everyone not to tinker too much with established lists before I had played a ton of games, and that really paid off when it came time to tweak it for myself, so I'd choose a stock list from the front page or the primers from 10 or so pages back and learn it inside and out first.
About buying fetches/duals, I decided to play Painter because I like it the best of all the Legacy decks I've tried, not because of budget. The deck has a ton of play, and can play a number of different styles even with the same deck list from game to game. The only downside is that there are relatively few other decks to build from the cards you pick up for Painter. If playing many decks is important to you, don't build Painter, but if you like it more than the other options, then absolutely pick it up, as I can't foresee playing this one deck getting boring any time soon.

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Originally Posted by vhirvela

In any case. I don't know which is over all stronger/better or more constent build Red white ipainter or red ipainter but I think what I want from my build. and these are questions I would love some input!

I wanna play 4 main blood moon and 2 main magus of the moon. does this seem solid If I go with red version?

I would love to play some great furnace since I would love to have gobling weilder in my deck.

I think I should play 1 phyrexian revoker, 1 gobling weilder and 1 1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. Since I can tutor what ever I need with imperial recruiter. Why run multiple copies of situational cards?:O

I think I want to have on the main or in the side 1 Vexing Shusher is he valid?

I think I want one Phyrexian Metamorph.

I don't want to run with main deck bridges beacause that is very situational or only 1 at most.

I would love to run 4 x Lion's eye diamond. I even saw some deck with infinite mana + infinite damage combo using that.

Is lion's eye diamond builds valid at todays meta?

I would love to run 4 ancient tomb and 3-4 city of traitors.

I dont want to run: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster or 1 Koth of the Hammer. I don't see any point at those cards at all!!:O

What do you think. those that have played or experimented with red imperial painter. am I even on the right page with my reasoning and ideas?

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The red version is very focused on establishing a quick blood moon lock and comboing out. Your toolbox is still diverse but a bit slower to access, as your only tutor is recruiter (dem rhymez). If your local meta runs mostly non-basics, this is a good place to play mono-r.

The biggest thing that white splash brings you is enlightened tutor. It allows you to tutor up just about any nonland permanent in the deck that recruiter can't, including most of your sideboard. This also means it's safer to run more artifacts mainboard, which also consequently makes goblin welder better. You don't have to go heavy on welder if you don't want to, but the white splash is a nice home for him. If your local meta has a lot of diverse strategies and you expect bad matchups like ANT, TES, Sneak and Show, then the white splash is going to be better since you can tutor for your answers quicker.

Revoker is a nice card in a lot of our unfavorable matchups. It turns off Lily, turns off sneak attack, and lots of other annoying cards. It's also nice to abuse with welder, they can try to kill it but you can just whip him back at instant speed. I would recommend 2 main or 1 main 1 side for these reasons.

Welder's strength varies depending on your opponent's removal suite, but he is generally very powerful. If you run 2+ though, you have to tailor the deck to him by adding artifacts.

Metamorph is a little slow and generally doesn't really go with the goal of this deck. The reason you see him in older lists is because he used to be a removal spell for annoying legendaries, but this no longer works with the new legend rule.

LED is a cool and underutilized card in this deck. It can be abused with welder and gives us exactly what we need to activate the stone. I don't know if I'd run 4 though, unlike ANT we don't run cards that synergize with an empty hand. However, it works with welder, and I'd like to see someone make it work in an interesting way.

Koth is amazing against miracles but not much else. When he lands against miracles though he will probably win you the game on his own. Also if you ult him behind a wall of blockers you can control the rest of the game in almost any matchup. It's really a meta choice. Chandra is more experimental, I don't like her either though because she's slow and hard to cast at times.

I have nothing constructive to add, but I just want to compliment this deck again. It is very power and so fun to play. I keep seeing new interactions each day.

Today I was playing Nic-Fit (I think) he hit me with an early durress. My hand was Welder, Welder, land, land, bridge, stone, painter. He takes the stone and passes. I play the welder and pass. He hits me with cabal therapy and takes painter. My T2, I top-deck and jam painter (he missed his second land drop). on my T3 I play out another welder and pass. I have no idea what he does, but it isn't exciting enough for me to care. I get a lotus petal for my draw and think "... Wait... So I just win now, right?". Drop petal, Welder1 welds out painter to get stone, I sac the petal tap 2 lands and activate stone, activate Welder2 in response, weld the stone for painter, pass, win.

There are so many little tricks with this deck and it is surprisingly interactive with a great control mechanism for the current greedy meta. Again, I know I am adding nothing to this conversation except maybe convincing someone else to pick it up. Amazing deck. So happy I am picking up the rest of the pieces I need in paper!

You still can make it cleaner and play better. Turn 1 play welder. Turn two play topdecked painter. Eot weld out painter for stone. Now if you draw a land you win t3. Since you don't, now you play welder number two and have surgical protection using the first. Turn 4 you drop petal and activate stone and get painter in response. 2nd one is removal and graveyard protection for painter

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

You still can make it cleaner and play better. Turn 1 play welder. Turn two play topdecked painter. Eot weld out painter for stone. Now if you draw a land you win t3. Since you don't, now you play welder number two and have surgical protection using the first. Turn 4 you drop petal and activate stone and get painter in response. 2nd one is removal and graveyard protection for painter

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Ah, got it.

Thanks!

with the mono red main build. What other wincons do I have besides the grindstone painter combo. if for some reason that Is locked out and I can't activate it or something. (extirpate comes to mind)

1/1 and 2/1 beatdown plan is not a joke, and you get through this more than it comes to mind.
Blood moon makes that b plan easier

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Originally Posted by Mystic Snake

1/1 and 2/1 beatdown plan is not a joke, and you get through this more than it comes to mind.
Blood moon makes that b plan easier

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This is also my plan b with mono-red. I have tested out a singleton beat-stick like siege-gang commander, figure of destiny, and Kargan Dragonlord and have found that they are not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Mystic Snake

1/1 and 2/1 beatdown plan is not a joke, and you get through this more than it comes to mind.
Blood moon makes that b plan easier

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This^^

Lock them out with Moon/Blasts and keep swinging with revokers and chain a few recruiters together.

Edit: This is where Koth can play a big role too. 5/5 mountains beat pretty damn well.

And if you want to really race, you go wild and play your imposing 2/2 monkey for 3.

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Rakka Mar is best beat down plan. So much fun.

I have had my Stones Extracted before, went on a chain Recruiters into Jaya beat down. Still lost buy it was close.

What is the most basic untweeked mono red imperial painter build there is right now? (including Sideboard)
since I want to build it but I can't quikly find the current consensus....I have seen many lists but they differ with lands and or amound of simian guides etc.

Consult the all mighty front page!

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Quick question (and there may be a simple answer): Is there an issue with cutting a monkey and adding a 3rd petal? It seems that adding another petal and cutting a monkey might help with the white splash. Pros: white source under moon, can be welded. Cons: You lose a beater, you lose the surprise factor by holding up a money and a blast effect, petal must be cast (pretty much the same as the previous con).

Again, somewhat new to this. Can anyone provide a quick answer?

Thanks!

I think you could do it, but if you are going to go down that path, I would push more Welders too.

Personally I like the surprise of having FOW in hand. That never gets old. If you start pushing away from the Ape, having two cards in hand becomes less of a threat. I have lost count how many times I have gotten the "Cards in hand?" line. People who know the deck treat me like I have Force if I have been holding down cards. I feel like going more down the Petal path limits this. Yes, you have more white open, but if you really need white, you should not be sticking moon. If you are in the need of sticking moon, you should have the time not to need the white. That's a mistake I made when I started with the splash. I kept all the white in the side and only brought it in against matches where the Moons came out.

There is also an unseen factor here : petal is soft to Thalia, guide is not. I am not usually in a hurry after blood moon, and thus I don't need ultra speed of a tutor. Both are good in some situations but u probably like the ape more overall.

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I wouldn't put in another Petal for SSG. I like having the ability to play him as a 2/2 after Moon drops.

Having the surprise Monkey + Blast, Daze/Pierce protection, Grindstone activation is worth way more than another W source IMO.

Any thoughts on adding "Aegis of the Gods" as a one-of in the sideboard?

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...yx-Spoiler.jpg

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Originally Posted by Macky984

Any thoughts on adding "Aegis of the Gods" as a one-of in the sideboard?

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...yx-Spoiler.jpg

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Why this？ If you splash white, canonist is far better than this one against storm, and I don't think you should board this against jund or Bug in terms of discard...

It stops more than just discard. Jace, Lili, Tendrils, Burn, probe, Grindstone (mirror), Intuition, Tormod's, Vendilion Clique, Grapeshot.

It's just like a Leyline except it's a creature (which makes it more vulnerable)but it's searchable with recruiter. Being able to stop a Jace's fateseal and ult... as well as Lili's -2 and Ult seems decent.

If having him out makes my opponent destroy him instead of a painter... I'm cool with that. Plus a 2/1 for the dork beats.