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On ll I agree with Echelon, for one time. The card is absurd against storm and even miracles. It is 3cmc so pseudo counterbalance proof and if they spend their resources to counter it I'm fine: 1 because I play 3 ll, 2 because it means I am more likely to resolve one of my 2-3 (!!!) tsunami. Being 3cmc instead of 4 is a very big deal.
Ricardio do you like PW in the meta? I hated them, but maybe your brute force approach to PW fit (8 PW?) is the key in our different opinions on the matter.
Thought about that too, and my conclusion was: Yes, but no - awful draws are awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Put in a single Tropical Island in your landbase so you have the chance to cast it if need be.
Yeah... I'm not buying a Tropical Island so I can try out some silly commander card. I rather just spend my 6 bucks on the Atraxa and YOLO it from there. I'm perfectly comfortable having cards in my deck I can't cast otherwise. I blame it on having played Elves!/Manaless Dredge/Summoner's Egg.
Besides, I can always use DRS to cast it or regrow it from my GY w/ Meren.
I mainly like his draw ability. He protects himself with 3/3s and can draw an insane amount of cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalvin66rocks
That GGG though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
GGG definitely seems like it could be a slightly prohibitive cost.
Going to 2k this Saturday. This is the list I I'm planning on taking, however I am open to suggestions.
Creatures:
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Grave Titan
Instants/Sorceries:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
1 Vindicate
3 Abrupt Decay
Enchantments:
3 Pernicious Deed
Artifacts:
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalkers:
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Lands:
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Lost Legacy
2 Carpet of Flowers
The only serious change i'm considering now is removing the second Qasali Pridemage from the sideboard, I'm not sure what it would be for however. Otherwise through the testing, the deck has seemed to hold up pretty well and it is a blast to play.
I think once I get a trop, I am going to tweak the manabase a little bit to run Leovold and Atraxa since they both seem great.
I play a similar list and I like it a lot.
concerning your sideboard, I definitely recommend 2 thoughtseize in the sb. it is very important against every combo deck.
PW's supported by creatures seem strong to me in any meta. Few seem strong to me on their own though. I was looking at that David McDarby list from a few years ago and wondering if we can do something like that in Junk these days. Oath of Nissa is great for that archetype and depending on what you're looking for Oath of Gideon and Oath of Liliana both seem strong as well. There's no shortage of good PW's in those colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
The library manipulation and support are all there but removal seems tricky.
This could be a good approach to take with the 4C stuff. I might try that with Saskia, technically I have 2 red lands for her with Caverns and I can tutor with KotR, plus there's DRS. But normally you would just want to GSZ. You may have solved it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
would it be that embarrassing to run a breeding pool or a watery grave? The lifeloss becomes so marginal if you're getting it back with lifelike, or rhinos or thragtusk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Since when is that something to be ashamed about? And who in their right mind gives a fuck about what others think of their deck, in that regard? I used to run shockduals while dropping Summoner's Eggs as a serious attempt at Legacy and I loved it. But in this case I also don't want to expand my manabase/drop my Dryad Arbor to facilitate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by removedfromgame
One shockland is pretty doable I've found but it's still far from ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by removedfromgame
A lot of fetchlands allow you to circumvent them just fine. I used to run 3 shockduals w/o the lifegain and it never hurt me much. Just be smart about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
It depends on your curve. I play a lot of Modern so I'm used to the timing in that format. A blend of ABU's/Shocks makes for interesting timing, but if you're playing something like Rhinos where you don't usually curve out every turn anyways, it's easy to do. Just think of it coming in tapped as paying 1 extra mana. Which I'll also point out if you're paying 1 mana... Ash Barrens is pretty badass, probably harder to use in 4C though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I think I might take out that Qasali Pridemage for a Thoughtseize. I'm not sure what to cut for the second Thoughtseize.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherson
But I do like having more hand disruption as well as the surgical extraction's and lost legacy's against combo.
I have no shame in running a shockland. There are times whenever it really hurts but only one, especially if its only for a splash is definitely doable.
I want to experiment with maximizing atraxa's proliferate. With certain inclusions, we can use cards that have appeared in other lists and still gain quite a few more cards that will synergize with her. For instance, cards like nissa, voice of zendikar have appeared in a few lists and work pretty well with atraxa. I also want to experiment with master biomancer to see how well he does. He works very well with planeswalkers that make tokens like nissa, voice of zendikar and sorin.
biomancer: tokens generated by planeswalkers get buffed. meren bringing back guys get buffed. nissa, gearhulk, and abzan charm can buff up biomancer.
gearhulk: this guy is insane if atraxa is on the board, and great by himself too. throw 3 counters on atraxa 1 on him and let them grow.
abzan charm: very versatile. the +1/+1 counters actually become worthy of being used if atraxa and another creature is out.
atraxa: as you guys know, synergizes with planeswalkers, meren's experience counters, jitte counters, and all the +1/+1 counters generated by nissa, biomancer, charm, gearhulk, and scooze.
Even though a lot of the synergies are small, there are so many of them that they add up. I'm considering going all in one token generating planeswalkers like garruk, primal hunter and elspeth, sun's champion.
Creatures
3 veteran explorer
2 deathrite shaman
1 scavenging ooze
1 stoneforge mystic
1 eternal witness
1 leovold, emessary of trest
1 master biomancer
1 meren, clan of nel toth
1 atraxa, praetor's voice
1 verdurous gearhulk
Planeswalkers
1 nissa, voice of zendikar
1 sorin, lord of innistrad
1 nissa, vital force
1 sorin, grim nemesis
Artifacts
3 sensei's divining top
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
Enchantments
3 Pernicious deed
Spells
4 Cabal therapy
4 Green suns zenith
3 abrupt decay
1 abzan charm
2 Path to exile
Lands
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 savannah
1 underground sea
1 tropical island
2 forest
2 swamp
1 island
1 plains
1 karakas
1 phyrexian tower
Serrated Arrows plus Atraxa? Haha
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@zyren: So basically your entire deck falls apart as soon as your opponent manages to get rid of a 1-off..? And whilst making the curve more top heavy than regular lists you decide to shave a Veteran Explorer..?
Sure, what could possibly go wrong.
Again - Proliferate is flavour text, nothing more. The reason why you should care about Atraxa is b/c it's a GSZ'able, flying Batterskull, nothing more. If your plan is to run it so you can improve your Miracles MU since it plays well with PWs, guess what - that isn't going to work b/c it plays right into StP/Terminus. Congrats.
do u really think u need krosan grip? just to kill top against miracles?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalvin66rocks
for me tsunami is a very good sideboard card against all the blue decks. beat miracles yesterday and ur delver.
they have no answer if u kill their lands.
I have kambal as well but never played him so far, is he really that good in combo match ups? you can't tutor him which seems is a big disadvantage.
in my opinion:
- krosan
- kambal
+ tsunami
+ thoughtseize
I just bought into Sneak Fit on MTGO. My plan is to run through some leagues and record them over the next month for the YouTubes. I will link here as I finish the playlists. The first set will likely be me going over the replay until i get comfortable recording. Hopefully, I can provide something useful to link in the future Primer. :smile:
List:
Main - 61
Lands - 22
2 - Forest
2 - Mountain
2 - Swamp
2 - Bayou
2 - Badlands
1 - Taiga
3 - Wooded Foothills
4 - Verdant Catacombs
2 - Grove of the Burnwillows
1 - Phyrexian Tower
1 - Volrath's Stronghold
Ramp - 7
2 - Deathrite Shaman
4 - Veteran Explorer
1 - Sakura-Tribe Elder
Utility - 4
1 - Eternal Witness
2 - Fierce Empath
1 - Reclamation Sage
1 - Thragtusk
Combo - 4
2 - Woodland Bellower
1 - Inferno Titan
1 - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Other Spells - 23
4 - Sneak Attack
4 - Cabal Therapy
4 - Green Sun's Zenith
3 - Sensei's Divining Top
2 - Abrupt Decay
3 - Pernicious Deed
1 - Maelstrom Pulse
2 - Punishing Fire
Sideboard - 15
1 - Primeval Titan
2 - Carpet of Flowers
1 - Pithing Needle
2 - Thoughtseize
2 - Surgical Extraction
1 - Massacre
1 - Gaze of Granite
2 - Slaughter Games
1 - To the Slaughter
2 - Golgari Charm
Are there more interactions that people could explain and then could be added to the main page? I am new to legacy and this is the deck I am having a lot of fun playing. I started with JUNK fit but am playing an earlier iteration of Navsi's sneak list and really love it. I picked up magic last spring so I have a lot to learn but even played sub-optimally, this list seems to have a ton of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
So anyhow, an example of interactions I am ignorant of: I hear people here talk about how broke the Volrath's Stronghold + Phyrexian Tower combination is... but no one ever really describes what those broken things are. I can see how recurring Veteran Explorer would be great... but what else?
Thank you everyone for working on this deck and "showing your work", I always feel like I learn a lot when I visit this thread.