Re: All B/R update speculation.
We're big boys so let us play with our toys. Let Modern be the format where the everything is carefully controlled.
Is Survival too good? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know for sure is to unban it at see what happens. I put it in the same category as Time Spiral or Entomb powerful card, would spawn a new archetype, but not anymore broken then what the format already allows. Legacy has evolved a ton in the last few years . My gut tells me Survival would be alright. If it's not then just ban it again in 3-6 months. I for one would welcome the experiment.
Legacy is not a PT or PTQ format we get like three GP's a year so just let us do our thing.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Exactly. At worst, the card becomes a problem and it gets banned again. If nothing else, at least give it a shot. It isn't like it messes up the PT or anything. And I doubt that it would hurt attendance, which in the end is what WOTC really cares about right?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
They can't just unban and ban a card again a few months later..
Well theoretically they could but can you imagine the whine and hate they'd recieve if they unban Survial, it shoots up to I-don't-know-how-much and then ban it again a couple weeks later?
Dear god no, from a buisness standpoint thats absolute nonsense.
Similiar to a bank which removes costs for a normal account and later wants to add it again because they realized it was a mistake and they can't manage it.. Tons of customer will switch their account to another bank even if they paid in the past because they had some free months and got used to it.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Holly
They can't just unban and ban a card again a few months later..
Well theoretically they could but can you imagine the whine and hate they'd recieve if they unban Survial, it shoots up to I-don't-know-how-much and then ban it again a couple weeks later?
Dear god no, from a buisness standpoint thats absolute nonsense.
Similiar to a bank which removes costs for a normal account and later wants to add it again because they realized it was a mistake and they can't manage it.. Tons of customer will switch their account to another bank even if they paid in the past because they had some free months and got used to it.
I agree with the whining, but it doesn't have a plethora to do with a business standpoint - WOTC makes little/no money on the secondary market.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
You can't Unban a card and then reban it without at lest having the "Oh but the meta did not have time to adapt" crew sing to the heavens about how it should have had more time and was not broken but would have been ok if only we had more time.
Also, the comment about RIP being the answer. Not everyone plays white. Saying X single card is the answer is foolish, what happens when you don't have access to that card?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
You can't Unban a card and then reban it without at lest having the "Oh but the meta did not have time to adapt" crew sing to the heavens about how it should have had more time and was not broken but would have been ok if only we had more time.
Also, the comment about RIP being the answer. Not everyone plays white. Saying X single card is the answer is foolish, what happens when you don't have access to that card?
Phyrexian Revoker? #IDon'tPlayLandsThough
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Phyrexian Revoker? #IDon'tPlayLandsThough
Yeah and Needle was available during Survivals second era too ... Did it help? No, because Survivaldecks are not dependant on the enchantment but your opponent HAS TO ANSWER IT regardless
Re: All B/R update speculation.
The answers have gotten very good and universal though. Surgical, grafdiggers, and revoker are all colorless. Pithing needle is still a great card. RIP is crazy good against it. Deathrite really does work in tuning down the power level. Even something like batterskull really inhibits them to an extent if they can't constantly recur vines or the reclamation sage gets countered. Aslo, reclamation sage is now a thing to kill enchantments. And you know what would be a fantastic tool to fight against the insanity of a white wrath? Being able to recur your creatures again and again.
Survival is not only 100% safe, it would improve the metagame by giving miracles what should be a unfavorable matchup, therefore lessening the raw strength of the 4 terminus plan on other green based aggro decks.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Reclamation Sage would be half the problem in a Survival format. "Revoker on the stack? Ok, just one sec let me grab Sage. RIP? Same. Oh I did not draw Survival? Well lucky I still have a good working midrange deck. You just don't win.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
RIP? Same. Oh I did not draw Survival? Well lucky I still have a good working midrange deck
Hand: Bayou, Fetch, Fetch, Deathrite Shaman, Squee, Griselbrand, Genesis.
Such deck, very good working midrange, wow.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
So you want to start throwing hands around. Here pick any 7 cards and let me totally ignore you, because we all get good hands and bad ones. Shit happens.
If built right, a Survival deck should not be dead without the card and should be explosive with it. Much like Pod is. You don't need Pod, but when you get it, you get the ball rolling hella fast.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheInfamousBearAssassin
Hand: Bayou, Fetch, Fetch, Deathrite Shaman, Squee, Griselbrand, Genesis.
Such deck, very good working midrange, wow.
and we are now sculpting worst case scenarios with cards no one seriously suggestioned like Genesis? Wow.
Shall we continue with RUG Delver and a hand without green mana but werbears to make a point of how bad the concept of tempo is?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
That's not even close to the worst case scenario.
Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.
RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheInfamousBearAssassin
That's not even close to the worst case scenario.
Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.
RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
For my taste this sounds like claiming that Tinker and Oath of Druids are fine because you can draw shitty hands with Blightsteel Colossus or Griselbrand too. I'm sure that the potential 1-2 dead draws are outweight by the advantage if you can assemble Survival + random creature. :/
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Then compare Survival + random creatures to Show and Tell or Oath or whatever.
I think it usually comes off pretty fair in those comparisons, due to the sheer amount of mana it takes to set up any of these combos. Survival decks have historically been more durdly/resilient than aggressively combotastic.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheInfamousBearAssassin
Then compare Survival + random creatures to Show and Tell or Oath or whatever.
I think it usually comes off pretty fair in those comparisons, due to the sheer amount of mana it takes to set up any of these combos. Survival decks have historically been more durdly/resilient than aggressively combotastic.
That is correct. My point however was that Survival is not only a combo enabler like S&T but much more flexible in it's use like creating cardadvantage or as a repeatable Tutor. I don't think it deserves a ban for the pure axis of enabling a combo but for the versatility it provides for every deck running green and trying to win via the combat step. I guess we can agree that not running Survival within a green shell with plenty of creatures would barely make sense and that it would limit the diversity of Legacy midrange even more than it already is.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
I don't see what's changed in the time since Survival was banned that would make decks like Thresh, Zoo and Elves want to run it when they didn't before.
It would displace probably a very small range of decks (probably just Jund and Shardless Bug) and replace them with a variety of interesting, more unique and engaging decks instead.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
I don't think that Survival will be allowed anymore, it's a repeatable tutor (although a conditional one), and WotC dislike such cards. They'd rather print some legendary enchantment creature planeswalker flying trample herptouch 13/18 protection from you transform card.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheInfamousBearAssassin
That's not even close to the worst case scenario.
Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.
RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
This. Everyone is saying it's so good because it's versatile. Sure. It's a good deck. And it would probably be T1 in legacy. Is that bad? It didn't seem to absolutely ruin the format before, and now with the plethora of answers readily available to fight it off it seems fine.
