Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asthereal
The discussion about the mana base, on the other hand, is highly relevant.
Has anyone made extensive notes during competitive play about the amount of times where
a. non-blue lands made casting cantrips impossible, vs.
b. non-black lands made going off or casting Decay impossible?
Right now we're slinging arguments for either.
Evidence from recorded numbers would help greatly.
Pew ... that would require us to make a very big simulation with various builds (13 vs 14 lands; SB land or not), but for the Website list one can use the sample hand generator and make 100+ iterations as a statistical starting point.
For a theoretical POV, there are only 2 non-black lands in the deck (at best if you run two Volcanics) to weigh against the 6 discard spells & 4 DR (to start the combo into IT) when it comes to turn 1 plays and 3 non-blue lands (website list) to weigh against 8 cantrips. From a more practical side, favoring the black lands indicates one leans towards gambling on good starting grips which do not need much fixing and is willing to play the odds against potential FoWs. Leaning towards the blue lands means that you are accepting a slower, but more stable (in terms of opening hand config, opposing counters, mulligan, etc.) approach. Given that matchups which require Decays are slower in general, you have more time to find IMS' (draw & cantrips) and make your landdrops, so I don't think the scenario of having to cast an EoT Decay off two lands (and two lands only) is a real factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dissection
What do people think of Collective Brutality? My first instinct is it's too weak to soft countermagic in the matchups you'd want it (Delver) or too expensive vs Thalia, but being able to take out a Delver or DRS and strip a Force is pretty enticing. It can help empty your hand for Infernal Tutor in a pinch too.
I would immediately maindeck the card if it costs B, but not for that manacost if the goal is to kill creatures/discard counters. 1B is a bit much for a card which isn't even able to hit Chalice or Counterbalance
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Having been playing the physical deck in 3 large events (GP Columbus, ee4 and SCG: WOR) over the last 2 months, I can safely say that in my experience Badlands has been a major upgrade over the second Volcanic Island. I don't just theory craft, I play in events both large and locals. If it was an issue, I would've said something by now.
I think that isn't the point. Via simulation we could get a multitude of your starting grips in these tournaments within an hour or so to see if Volcanic #2 blocks more T1/2 kills/discard than non-island #3 blocks T1/2 cantrips
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I think that isn't the point. Via simulation we could get a multitude of your starting grips in these tournaments within an hour or so to see if Volcanic #2 blocks more T1/2 kills/discard than non-island #3 blocks T1/2 cantrips
There's more to games than blocking T1/T2 kills. We've already mentioned Abrupt Decay and the turn two Brainstorm/discard line while maintaining the appropriate colors of mana.
I honestly think Volcanic Island (aside from the required Bayou) is the worst land in the deck.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Idionym
Just go to SCG if you want to see the results.
No changes in the meta, other than mono-red sneak attack making a showing.
yes I know that I can find the metagame breakdown on SCG, I was more interested to read someone's report about worcester. I know it's more satisfying to write a report when we do top, but it's also instructive reading what went wrong.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Having been playing the physical deck in 3 large events (GP Columbus, ee4 and SCG: WOR)
How did it go @Worcester? Would you change anything in your list?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morden
How did it go @Worcester? Would you change anything in your list?
Not sure. I'm waiting to see the B&R, I was bitten by seeing 4 chalice decks and no miracles after cutting my Chalice hate.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Not sure. I'm waiting to see the B&R, I was bitten by seeing 4 chalice decks and no miracles after cutting my Chalice hate.
With recent discussions of Pulverize/Meltdown/Rite of Replication and their merits/faults, do you feel like having any of these would have mattered/helped?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ebonclaw
With recent discussions of Pulverize/Meltdown/Rite of Replication and their merits/faults, do you feel like having any of these would have mattered/helped?
Nope. I will not play those cards, I've stated before why.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ebonclaw
With recent discussions of Pulverize/Meltdown/Rite of Replication and their merits/faults, do you feel like having any of these would have mattered/helped?
http://static.starcitygames.com/sale...eplication.jpg
???
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Whoops, I meant Shattering Spree. Its replicate ability caused a brain fart.
Thanks for your input Bryant, just wondering if things had changed.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ebonclaw
Whoops, I meant Shattering Spree. Its replicate ability caused a brain fart.
Thanks for your input Bryant, just wondering if things had changed.
It's very rare to be in a situation where you have enough mana to Burning Wish, have it not be hit by Thought-Knot Seer or Warping Wail but also not die due to their clock while having all of the right mana and tools to kill them.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I am so thankful that we can now close the thread as having namedropped cards in the past solves any future metagame issues and makes development/testing obsolete. Eureka!
Oh in case Eldritch Moon, has any future playables for any deck ever discussed on this page:
Consider this link as pointing to the respective card and me claiming ownership of any future development containing any of these.
P.S.: can someone point us to the individual who was the very first mentioning "Swamp" in an Online forum discussing MtG, as Bryant sure want to thank him for developing TES' current manabase
P.P.S. by that logic, I have developed TC in Delver and DTT in S&T decks. Damn!
Hail our lord and savior!! I'm so glad I never have to think again!! #blessed
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
It's very rare to be in a situation where you have enough mana to Burning Wish, have it not be hit by Thought-Knot Seer or Warping Wail but also not die due to their clock while having all of the right mana and tools to kill them.
Yep. Had Meltdown in my GP Prague list and after playing the list for a bit, I realized, that Thought-Knot Seer is the real problem card out of the Eldrazi deck. Prison decks were there before, but they didn't have an effective Threat, that could strip your hand before. My approach for that matchup is to try to be faster. Not the best odds there, especially if you lose the die roll, but you can't prepare for every matchup properly.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I honestly think Volcanic Island (aside from the required Bayou) is the worst land in the deck.
Agreed. Out of all my fetchable lands I fetch it the least, even though I always fetch it as my red land of choice in situations where I 100% know it won't matter which one I get in order to hide information from my opponent.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
It's very rare to be in a situation where you have enough mana to Burning Wish, have it not be hit by Thought-Knot Seer or Warping Wail but also not die due to their clock while having all of the right mana and tools to kill them.
Yeah, I can see that it's not terribly useful in Eldrazi matchups for that reason, but my interest in these cards has more to do with other decks featuring Chalice/Thorn effects, particularly G1, but I can also see this reasoning being applied to some of those decks as well.
I wanted to ask about the Lands a little bit. Trying to be faster is the deck's usual gameplan against anybody, and it's usually a solid one, but against certain decks, losing the die roll really affects that plan and crop rotation -> tabernacle is a thing even if you do win the dice roll. In my mind there are two different ways to play G2.
The advantage against lands is that T1 Tendrils doesn't care about Force of Will, but then again, if you have a T1 Tendrils kill on a winning die roll, you go for it anyway.
Correct my thinking here as necessary.
On the play G2 against RG Lands, I would board to try to maximize the potential of a T1 kill. There are a few ways to do this, but I'm not sure which line of thinking is best, or how flawed my reasoning is.
-4 Ponder, +4 Abrupt Decay, -2 Duress, +2 Hurkyl's Recall, -1 ETW, +1 Tendrils: This board drops Ponder for the card that Ponder would probably just be looking for anyway. If you're trying be fast but something is stopping you, I want to have an answer in hand and not have to take time to dig for it. Some of the discard is dropped as discard loses its relevance against Lands very quickly. The double edge to that is that when it's effective, it's really effective, and can take away crop rotation and enable you to pursue an ETW route much more viably if necessary, or can also take hate before it can hit the table and require an answer. I assume a Lands player would not keep a hand without at least Crop Rotation in G2, and would prefer to see a T1 thorn/chalice if they get to take a turn. ETW leaves as Lands must always be aware of its possibility, but having Tendrils main enables natural chains ending with Infernal Tutor or Dark Petition and not requiring a Burning Wish to be involved. Dark Petition however, allows Burning Wish to be part of the lethal storm chain though, and keeps the Goblins plan within arm's reach if necessary. I think this is the correct choice to board.
-4 Ponder +4 Abrupt Decay, -4 Cabal Therapy, +2 Hurkyll's Recall, +2 Thoughtseize, -1 ETW, +1 Tendrils: The same as above, but favoring Duress/Thoughtseize over Therapy in a rare instance with the argument that Therapy is not as good when your main gameplan isn't going to be goblins, and the opponent may be playing any number of hate pieces that make a good blind call difficult, since Lands may wield Chalice, Thorn, or Sphere of Resistance in any combination. I think this would also not be bad choice.
-4 Ponder, +4 Abrupt Decay: This board wants to keep ETW as an accessible, primary option, figuring it's easier to storm after getting rid of any existing crop rotation with the full intact discard package, and making 12 goblins is easier than making a lethal tendrils sometimes. Having to possibly wait to cast a lethal tendrils might give the opponent too much reaction time. Since T1 will hopefully be spent firing off a discard spell if it's not making a kill, the change here is removing the one thing we DON'T want to be spending T1 doing in favor of answers in case our discard spell finds multiple problems, and the T1/2 kill isn't there.
-4 Cabal Therapy, -2 Duress, -1 ETW +4 Abrupt Decay, +2 Hurkyl's Recall +1 Tendrils: This board favors reactive answers since Lands is a slower deck and aims at a lethal, unobstructed Tendrils. It has no answer to Crop Rotation/Tabernacle and doesn't intend to have one. More vulnerable to a quick Marit Lage as it has zero interaction with Crop Rotation.
-4 Ponder, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thoughtseize: All in on getting discard in the opener to tackle multiple hate cards and clear out crop rotation. I think this is my worst example as discard gets irrelevant very quickly against lands, you usually have time to fire off one discard spell before something else becomes a problem, but it's also something you don't mind seeing a single copy of on the play. There are different scenarios where multiple discard is undesirable and discard+answer is more desirable. Consider:
Your hand: Duress, Therapy, Burning Wish, RoF, Mire, USea, LED On your second turn you draw Lotus Petal/Rof/Dark Ritual and have a quick path to ETW
Opponent's hand:
Crop Rotation, CoV, Exploration, Taiga, Grove, Mox Diamond, Tranquil Thicket
You must take CoV or you won't get to cast your second discard anyway. The lands player will probably play Taiga and cast Exploration, play grove, pitch thicket to Diamond, and hold up crop rotation depending on what they draw. They can now respond to your second discard attempt by taking the opportunity to cast the crop rotation into tabernacle preemptively.
Opponent's hand:
CoV, Thorn, Exploration, Taiga, Grove, Mox Diamond, Tranquil Thicket
You'll take chalice and have to find a solution for Thorn later, because it's almost assuredly their next play. Your discard spells would be better off as discard/removal or a pair of removal.
Opponent's Hand:
Sphere, Thorn or 2x Sphere, Exploration, Taiga, Grove, Mox Diamond, Tranquil Thicket
Same as above.
Opponent's Hand:
Sphere or crop rotation or CoV, Wasteland,Exploration, Taiga, Grove, Mox Diamond, Tranquil Thicket
Another example of multiple discard being undesirable. The other one doesn't really have a purpose, any future hate cards will be cast as they're drawn.
Opponent's Hand:
2x Crop Rotation, Sphere,Exploration, Taiga, Grove, Mox Diamond
Another example of multiple discard being bad. You'll take Sphere, but the other one is kind of useless, they'll get to fire off a Crop Rotation if they want to, but at least the Therapy will cost them an extra Crop Rotation that can't be used later to tutor up a threat.
Only one of these scenarios makes having two discard spells in hand desirable, and even that leaves the opponent the option to still find a Tabernacle. The only situation I'd actually want two discard spells would be an extremely slow hand with two threats, which would be a bad keep on the Land's player's part.
These are all G2, on the play considerations to weigh. If you're on the draw in G2, how does this affect your board choices? Lean to more reactive options and less to proactive ones? Cut proactive (discard) ones entirely?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ebonclaw
Yeah, I can see that it's not terribly useful in Eldrazi matchups for that reason, but my interest in these cards has more to do with other decks featuring Chalice/Thorn effects, particularly G1, but I can also see this reasoning being applied to some of those decks as well.
Those decks (Stax/Mud/Painter) are less than 1% of the metagame. Do you really want to devote sideboard slots for that?
I'm at work, I don't have time to read a wall of text on the Lands match-up. But it should be pretty easy.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Those decks (Stax/Mud/Painter) are less than 1% of the metagame. Do you really want to devote sideboard slots for that?
I'm at work, I don't have time to read a wall of text on the Lands match-up. But it should be pretty easy.
I guess I've just been unlucky in my last events, I had to play 2 out of 3 of those, but that was a year or more ago and my local meta isn't representative of the global obviously. None of them ended up making T8. You have a greater grasp on the wider meta than I do, so I'll take your word for it.
I'm probably overthinking Lands. I have a strange propensity to overthink stuff a lot and make things more difficult than they need to be. Great quality to have, you can't overthink IT enough sometimes, but it backfires horribly often as well.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ebonclaw
I guess I've just been unlucky in my last events, I had to play 2 out of 3 of those, but that was a year or more ago and my local meta isn't representative of the global obviously. None of them ended up making T8. You have a greater grasp on the wider meta than I do, so I'll take your word for it.
I'm probably overthinking Lands. I have a strange propensity to overthink stuff a lot and make things more difficult than they need to be. Great quality to have, you can't overthink IT enough sometimes, but it backfires horribly often as well.
There is a huge paradoxon to opt to win fast (thus leaving in the Moxen), but to board 6x 2cc boardremoval in case a Chalice drops. Don't board in ToA here, just remove the EtW which means you can keep flipping with Ad Nauseam even below 4 life. Remove the discard & EtW for bounce and call it a day. It should also even out the cmc balance and average cards you can draw. Don't board out the Ponder as you might need them to find your combo pieces. Most important advice: don't fucking throw your duals into Wastelands. I see that damn often
Subway-ride-edit:
I don't see why you would want to keep discard in these examples, especially on the draw. They drop Chalice T1 and then you never get to cast your discard for value (or at all) again. You even have to blind name against various possible targets like Nullrod, Thorn, Chalice, whatever instead of just looking for one of your bounce, IF they indeed have the T1 hate. If you are on the play, having Duress/Thoughtseize might be interresting to get around the reactive Path, but if you are on the draw, kick out the discard
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
There is a huge paradoxon to opt to win fast (thus leaving in the Moxen), but to board 6x 2cc boardremoval in case a Chalice drops. Don't board in ToA here, just remove the EtW which means you can keep flipping with Ad Nauseam even below 4 life. Remove the discard & EtW for bounce and call it a day. It should also even out the cmc balance and average cards you can draw. Don't board out the Ponder as you might need them to find your combo pieces. Most important advice: don't fucking throw your duals into Wastelands. I see that damn often
Subway-ride-edit:
I don't see why you would want to keep discard in these examples, especially on the draw. They drop Chalice T1 and then you never get to cast your discard for value (or at all) again. You even have to blind name against various possible targets like Nullrod, Thorn, Chalice, whatever instead of just looking for one of your bounce, IF they indeed have the T1 hate. If you are on the play, having Duress/Thoughtseize might be interresting to get around the reactive Path, but if you are on the draw, kick out the discard
This was really good advice, nailed it. Particularly removing the EtW but NOT putting in ToA.
My line of thinking in going down, but not eliminating discard was that I don't mind seeing one in my opener, but I pretty much never want more than that. Your explanation is exactly what I wanted, I was going in the right general direction, but you narrowed the path down greatly for me.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Just in time for TES 10-year anniversary...an audio interview with the one and only Bryant Cook, on "Humans of Magic."
https://soundcloud.com/humansofmagic...10-bryant-cook
Bryant Cook is the innovator and creator of The Epic Storm deck, which is approaching its ten-year anniversary. He joins me to discuss the origins of the 1.5 format, the strong Syracuse, NY scene, and his earliest tournament successes. We also talk about fun stuff like reading opponents, table banter, and beating a turn 1 Griselbrand. This is one conversation you won't want to miss.
Time stamps:
[01:02] Introduction
[03:28] Family background and origins
[04:52] Earliest gaming experiences
[06:18] Playing sports
[06:52] Playing Magic for the first time
[08:31] His first tournament
[10:34] On never splitting prizes in a tournament
[12:15] Improving as a player and first major tournament success
[15:00] The Syracuse crew
[16:29] The 1.5 scene in New York and origins of The Source
[17:22] Playing combo for the first time
[18:47] The beginnings of “The Epic Storm”
[22:17] The beginning of The Epic Syndicate
[23:54] How Magic friends have helped him in life
[25:15] Applying Magic learnings to life
[25:49] First major success with The Epic Storm
[27:22] Playing in Jupiter Games events and SCG Opens
[30:10] Getting nervous at high-level events
[32:48] Reading opponents
[36:25] The origins of The Epic Storm website
[38:30] Why he writes content
[39:23] Dealing with online trolls and haters
[40:59] Why Magic?
[42:36] Why he is competitive
[43:31] Tournament mindset and habits
[46:35] Table banter with opponents
[48:02] Codes of conduct and ethical gaming
[49:13] Most challenging Magic-related situation
[51:05] Best Magic moments
[55:19] Future evolution of The Epic Storm
[56:38] Magic-related goals
[59:43] Life-related goals
[01:01:19] What would Bryant tell himself if he could go back 5 years?
