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Why do people keep suggesting this? That is one of the worst ideas you can have to change this deck. All you by taking out the Vials is slow the deck down, and for what? Bad cards like Prospector? Turn four vial in a Matron to tutor up a Ringleader after a board wipe is amazing. Nothing currently beats Vial in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
Because vial takes te to tick up and is too slow if you are not playingana denial of ports and wastelands. Classic and Thalia lists should always play vials but win stigmatise lists are different. They are about lackey effects and need more removal such as tarfires and pyrokenesis main deck along with chrome mixes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher
I lost so many games because vial slowed my winstigator list down. Winstigator is aggro not aggro control and plays differently.
So... In your opinion Winstigator is not a new adoptation of Vial Goblins? Should deserve it's own threat? If so, why and how (apart from being more aggro) does it divers itself from Vial Goblins?Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
It has a bigger boot.
Basicly, he is suggesting cutting the control aspect of the deck for increased speed. In a format where a turn one Swiftspear, DRS or Delver with Daze can stop you dead and leave you playing catch up, it could be worth a try to aim for more speed. The issue will be that if you cut Vial, you only gain 2 slots. You use the other 2 for land to make up for what you have lost. Even then, not sure the old girl has it in her to really push much anymore. But hell, any change now is better that stagnation.
I am looking to try and make something of my Goblins again. I played this deck for so very long, I am attached to it. I am thinking though, if you cut Vial you should be looking at the Dirty Kitty lists of old. Build on them. Because while there is real value to be made in looking to change up the deck, cutting Control just to go a touch faster only makes you a bad burn deck. If you want to go down that path, start over. Do not just cut, keep the rest and pray, it's not enough. You need to start over, think bigger than just putting on a bigger boot.
I stopped posting on vial goblins mainly after dropping vials as my list over 2 years morphed from classic vial goblins to my winstigator list. Here's my decklists, make what you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
4 tarfires
3 pyrokenesis
3 chrome mox
4 lackeys
1 skirk prospector
3 warren instigators
3 Mogg war Marshall
2 goblin piledrivers
1 stingscourger
3 chieftains
2 warchiefs
4 matrons
4 ringleaders
1 krenko
1 Kiki jiki (testing)
4 wasteland
4 caverns
13 mountains
Side
4 chalice of void
3 thorn of amethyst
2 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast ( no vials remember )
1 tin street hooligan
1 sharpshooter
1 Tuk Tuk scrapper
1 Boartusk liege
Ok I could swap 1 Boartusk for 1 REB meta depending.
So you charge! Chieftains buff MWM etc and krenko for longer games. The lackey matron ringleaders are still essential.
The SB is anti combo, artefacts, E. Plague, and blue plus sharpshooter for elves and mirror.
DRS etc made me give up on control and push the little green men in your face!!!!
Well, it was not the best tournament I've had, but not the worst. I got somewhat decent pairings, but still... 2/2
Death and Taxes 2-0
G1 he had a Jitte at four and a casts Serra Avenger, and I had three Goblins in play. He is about to equip the Jitte, and I'm "well, at least it will be less counters in my face", so I cycle Gempalm Incinerator for 3 on his Avenger. He forgot he could kill even just one Goblin with the Jitte, and lets his Avenger die... :cool:
G2: The game from his point of view: Stoneforge Myt- Tarfire... Stonefor- Tarfire. Double lackey into Kiki+Settler *concede*
Jund Lands (punishing fire + dark depth) 1-2
G1 went a grindy path, and I won at 1 life
G2 went downhill from the start, conceded after a few turns...
G3 could have been good, but Ringleader put two times my Chalice of the void and Relic of Progenitus on the bottom... God I hate this deck. Since he had Life from the Loam, I couldn't even destroy them definitely, and I couldn't find my damned Chalices for two counters...
Affinity 0-2
G1 Welp, turn 3 kill
G2 Took a bit longed, turn 4... I hate affinity...
Angel Pod 2-1
G1 Somewhat normal game, nothing to say,
G2 He puts Engineered Plague turn 2, welp...
G3 Kiki-Jikki and Goblin Settler is a MEAN interaction. He went from a somewhat decent board position to a crappy one in only a turn.
So, a glorious 7th place on 20... not the worst, but we only got a top 4, so...
I like the black splash, but I kinda miss Talia and Rest in Peace... Gotta tweak it a bit, and I will return for the next tournament.
Engineered Plague is not a great idea... Might put Cabal Therapy instead.
The problem is that the white splash deals with decks that the black splash doesn't, and vice-versa. The big problem is that my meta is composed about half and half of those types of decks :cry: So, if I put only one splash, I can't deal with the other types of decks, and putting both is kinda harsh on the card slots...
Why not try both? It's not like 3 color goblins hasn't been done before. Your board could literally be:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raznaak
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Perish
3 Rest in Peace
It doesn't seem that bad on the slots.
SCG Minneapolis is this weekend and I'll be playing the little green men. I'll be honest, I don't have high hopes. But I think it will be fun and I can crush a few dreams in the process.
What do people feel is the best bet for a post-TC world? Should I bring back the W splash for RiP and Thalia? Or should I stick with the monoR that has treated me decently of late? Should I be rocking Waste and Port to punish the 17 land decks? Or should I rock all mountains to increase consistency and avoid Lands.dec (which will show up, I promise)?
Or should I just study other threads and come up with my own conclusions?
Difficult question. I would say: go for consistency, so go for as much Mountains possible, but probably don't drop Wasteland. Reasoning: a little protection against lands.dec and other pesky utility-lands. Also, with TC floating around the whole mana-denialplan will probably fail anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
As for a splash: I am looking into White myself. Rest in Peace is probably one of the best post-TC meta hosers available right now. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, while better with manadenial, will still be decent enough.
I'm not sure if Goblins will survive in this meta. WotC is making it increasingly difficult to not play Blue. As for me, I don't play Blue. Periodly. I don't want sound like a Grumpy Old Man, but I will also be looking into other ways of making Goblins viable.
I thinky Pyroblast/REB could be good versus the Treasure Cruise decks. Pyroblast has other uses against the UR delver lists, whereas RIP really doesn't do much else versus them. The card I really like though is Chalice of the Void. It's a house against a lot of decks. I'm not sure though how the rest of the meta will shape up, with lists adapting Cruise/Dig, so it's hard to say exactly what is going to be good. Just remember that other decks will be more likely to be able to keep up with our card advantage, and find a way to solve that problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Goblin Ringleader is the original Treasure Cruise.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Best of luck to you! I will be sitting this SCG out! I would be trying to drop a spirit of the labyrinth in this entirely treasure cruise world right now. I don't know if that's good, I would go with a white splash, or the full monored which has been treating you well lately. I anticipate a shit ton of lands... like always in Minneapolis.
It would definitely be cool if they just started making more interactive creatures in nonblue, since they're pushing creature power creep anyway. DRS and Ooze both come to mind. It seems for the most part creatures just turn sideways. Having creatures that allow you to interact with your opponent outside of combat makes the game much more interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Anywho, I don't believe in the power of REB cards as a solution to TC and Delver. Sharpshooter is definitely back in the list for Elves and Young Pyromancer though.
It's not really the quality of the nonblue cards that does those decks in though. I mean, just look at the cards in Jund or Maverick and you'd be hard-pressed to call any of them worse than what the blue decks run. Apart from the cantrips, that is. I don't think it's a coincidence that Elves is the most consistent nonblue performer as of late - it's the only deck which has card selection/draw to rival blue, and has to jump through a stupid number of deckbuilding hoops to enable those. As a result you get a deck with so many internal tensions - a house of cards if you will - that altering the maindeck or adopting certain sideboard cards for bad matchups is an exercise in frustration (Teeg, spell-based combo hate being the primary culprits).Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
And then they reprint Recall with far less deckbuilding and gameplay restrictions than Glimpse, and do so in blue.
I've tested a single Treasure Cruise in my goblins today and it is bad because uncasteble vs Elves, D&T, Merfolks and almost all sorts of combodecks.
I've heard from my friend from Moscow that he know some players from US who are playing UR Goblins too, they use Flusterstorm, Swan Songs, Tread of Disloyalty, UR Charm(don't remember it name).
It will be great to hear some words about Blue splash in goblins from players who are testing it! :)
Man, I just got creamed on my Wednesday night tournament. Against winnable MUs too! Variance was the name of the game. Too few lands, too many 3/4cmc cards in my opening hands. I'm not sure it's worth the $40 to 0-3 drop at SGC Minneapolis on Sunday.
Ok, enough Sturm und Drang. I'm rocking gobbos. It'll be rough, but that's what I'm doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Mono Red Ugly Green Dudes?
Oooh, just lost R1 because he cast Meditate and forgot to skip his next turn. I should have won that match. Fuck.
At this point I think Goblins is far beyond the powercreep. Nowadays Lackey needs to be a 2/2, Ringleader cost 1R and Chieftain RR
Yea I don't think thats true at all. I just don't think people are properly adjusting their list to the current meta. I haven't played too much legacy until last week, but just played 3 legacy events since Sunday. I think Goblins are pretty well positioned in the current meta and have a favorable U/R Delver match-up. I will be playing them at GP Oakland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
GP LA Side Event( 4-1)
R1 Elves 1-2 L
R2 Maverick 2-0 W
R3 Reanimator 2-0 W
R4 Burn 2-0 W
R5 Bug TC Delver ?? W
MTGO Daily on Wednesday (4-0)
R1 U/R TC Delver 2-0 W
R2 12 Post 2-1 W
R3 Elves 2-0 W
R4 U/R TC Delver 2-1 W
Local Legacy 1k ( 6-1-1)
R1 MUD 2-0 W
R2 Imperial Painter 2-0 W
R3 Jund 2-0 W
R4 Imperial Painter 2-1 W
R5 Goblins 2-0 W
R6 ID
T8 Imperial Painter 2-1 W
T4 U/R TC Delver 1-2 L