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Let's not exaggerate. Flash-Hulk was easily the most broken combo ever seen because it allowed you to run more control than the control decks. This card would still require all but maybe 8 slots be dedicated to the combo.
That being said, it's probably more powerful than anything short of Bargain of Will in storm combo. Arguably more powerful than Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall would be, although much more limited in scope.
That would be the most hilarious thing ever, especially since it is already being sold for preorder on ebay...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rack
IBA: With respect, I think that this is better than Hulk Flash for these reasons.
1.1 card combo
2.It's one more card for Control and Aggrocontrol decks that must be dealt with
3.It's Black, making it workable from the best rituals in the game
4.It makes TES, FT, and SI THE best decks in Legacy
5.There is nothing that is more powerful than it in the format
That's how I see it.
Yes.Quote:
That being said, it's probably more powerful than anything short of Bargain of Will in storm combo
In environments in which Black Lotus and Ancestral are played, AdN isn't nearly as powerful. Even if I could only choose one (Lotus, A-Call, or AdN) to add my Legacy decks, AdN would always come in third (that is even restricted power vs. 4x AdN).Quote:
Arguably more powerful than Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall would be, although much more limited in scope.
Hulk Flash wins as an instant (like how Solidarity works) when built correctly. Hulk Flash is much, much cheaper, and it is in even stronger control colors. Hulk Flash, evolved over months of tuning, would still be a way stronger deck than anything AdN will ever make in Legacy. Flash is retardedly broken. It is the best combo ever made thus far: it is the easiest to assemble, it wins as an instant (in response to anything), and it is the easiest to protect.Quote:
I think that this is better than Hulk Flash for these reasons.
1.1 card combo
2.It's one more card for Control and Aggrocontrol decks that must be dealt with
3.It's Black, making it workable from the best rituals in the game
4.It makes TES, FT, and SI THE best decks in Legacy
5.There is nothing that is more powerful than it in the format
peace,
4eak
Are you really comparing this to Flash?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rack
A BLUE (meaning countermagic), 2 mana instant that won the game...
Jake... come on!
Besides, everyone knows that the most broken card in legacy is currently mountain goat.
No, Flash was a two mana instant that required Protean Hulk to be in your hand. That's a BIG difference. I may be wrong on comparing it to Flash, but I haven't really received any good reasons why.
Its the cost and color
EDIT: This card doesn't actually win the game either, it is just a storm enabler that draws a shitton of cards that we would hope gets the job done...
AND! It isn't blue.
The card is broken as hell, and very good and all that stuff... but hulk-flash was the most degenerate thing that has ever happened to legacy ever, and this card doesn't come close to that power level (note that I am still calling this broken... just imagine IMO how powerful I thought flash was).
It may be in a weaker color but the thing is it doesn't need a deck built around it to win. It can win in decks that were already doing just fine. It is truly a one card combo.
FT, Doomsday, and SI would definitively not play this card. However, a list based on QSI might be pretty decent. I would start all of my testing from something like this:
// Lands
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [U] Underground Sea
// Creatures
4 [AL] Shield Sphere
4 [VI] Phyrexian Walker
4 [UNH] "Ach! Hans, Run!"
// Spells
4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [R] Dark Ritual
4 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
Edit: apparently undone posted this list within 6 cards like 8 hours ago. Go go emidln not reading every thread.
Would be a solid choice, but you'll take a lot of lifeloss from revealing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
But it would be worth it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
It's probably real. Still, I remember when Slithermuse was going to be the thing that broke Storm Combo until the card was confirmed differently than it was rumored. Maybe the :3: in the mana cost is actually an :8: or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrashed_Lackey
Nearly the same List I used for first testing (-4 brainstorm +4 lands)Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Why play fetchlands? You don't need deck thining and the lifeloss actually matters sometimes. Gemstone mine > Fetchlands here. Also helps casting potential Sideboard stuff.
Whenever Ad Nauseam hits play you have won. Any bounce? Just draw into Pact. Low on life? End AdN, cast tendrils, cast the next AdN.
Did anybody notice how ridiculously cheap that would be? If you replace Underground Seas with Undiscovered Paradises, Chrome mox is the only card >10$.
The card is fine in both FT and SI, you don't need the 8 creature + Culling the Weak shell to make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
I'm assuming he meant that to be a proxy of Ad Nauseum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
Hi
Is it smart to make the deck so reliant on Ad Nauseam. I like it alot more in TES actually. Allthough the deck needs to be reworked, I like it that it can you still can win, if Ad Nauseam is stopped( Extirpate or MM or something). I probably go -1 Infernal Contract +1 Ad Nauseam.
On another note, does Evil Roopey has something to do with this? I mean he made( correct me if I'm wrong though) the Tendrils deck Nausea... Seems like this cards says put me in that deck. At least the name should be good for the deck.
BB
Odd thought, but have people considered using Cunning Wish since it can tutor for Ad Nauseam, Brain Freeze and a ton of utility? Probably worse than Grim Tutor, I just thought it's worth noting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derklord
Currently I am seeing the following possibilities for using Ad Nauseam in a combo deck:
1) Kobold Nausea. Basically what is described in the opening post and what emidln wrote, a deck that includes 0-mana creatures, Culling the Weak, possibly Diabolic Intent. For disruption it can use Cabal Therapy and Pact of Negation. The usual consistency problems of SI will arise. Also, the threat density is significantly reduced if one cuts Draw4s. A strength of SI was always that one could continue after a countered Draw4 by just playing the next Draw4, this is not possible here.
2) The existent TES deck with a singleton Ad Nauseam main. It might replace Diminishing Returns. It will improve the deck a little bit, but not much.
3) The "Turn2-Deck". I've thrown some cards together and got a deck that wins on turn 2 (Tendrils) with a consistency that outclasses TES and Belcher by far. From what I can see, defining cards are Mystical Tutor and Manamorphose. One has to test how much disruption this deck can include to still work. Basically, it plays like Belcher that gives the opponent one more turn but cuts off the chance of stealing a game with EtW-answers and mulligans a lot less than Belcher.
4) Solidarity with black splash. Because Gearhart said it. No idea if this will work, I'm not too much into Solidarity.
5) A revamped TES deck which focuses more on Ad Nauseam as an enabler than anything else. jegger has posted an example UBR list in the TES thread, but in goldfishing I've fizzled with Ad Nauseam about 40% of the times I've cast it. This will need some work.
6) A more controllish FT-like approach that only casts Ad Nauseam at the end of the opponent's turn. I can imagine that this might work, but I have no idea how to build it.
Seems bad. The better thing to do is run 4 Mystical Tutor, giving you 8 maindeck AdN, 4 of which cost :3::b::b::u: and cause you to "discard" a card, as opposed to 7 maindeck AdN, 4 of which cost :5::b::b::u:Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
Additionally:
Mystical Tutor is better against discard than Cunning Wish.
No one considered running Cunning Wish to grab Flash at GP Columbus (you want Mystical Tutor here to either grab AdN or Dark Rit for the turn 2 kill, you don't ever accelerate into Cunning Wish).
EDIT:
Kobolds? As in "I play Glimpse of Nature" Kobolds?
I just came up with this BR decklist, it have good potential and seems to did a constant 2nd turn closure. It also uses Bunring Wish, wich is very good because reduces our high casting cost only on Ad Nauseam. I run Kobolds over robots because they' re pitchable on Chrome Moxes.
// Lands
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
4 [A] Badlands
// Creatures
3 [LG] Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 [LG] Crookshank Kobolds
4 [LG] Crimson Kobolds
// Spells
4 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [TSP] Grapeshot
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [EX] Culling the Weak
3 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [PS] Diabolic Intent
4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 4 [A] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [US] Reprocess
SB: 1 [PS] Diabolic Intent
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 3 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [JU] Cabal Therapy
The main closure is Grapeshot, wich is better than Tendrils in this build because it is cheaper and thanks to the slow curve we loss less life then UB versions. The protection is the same, 4 Pacts and 3 Therapyes plus the wishable one, the major loss is Brainstorm wich protect us from sweepers, but those decklist plays an huge numer of Tutors so is unfair to did a match where we don' t see any card between AdN, BW and DI...