[Deck] Land Ho! - Life from the Loam sleaze

What has been the right amount / combination of lands to run for this deck from everyone's testing? I'm seeing anywhere from 25-27 lands and 8-9 cycling lands in these lists. Is 8 cycling lands enough? Is 25 land total enough?

Some of you are using more utility lands, like barbarian ring, maze of ith, volrath's stronghold, mishras factory etc... are these really necessary? I can perhaps see a use for barbarian ring, but isn't that what seismic assault is for? Mishras factory doesn't make sense in this archetype... Windux, perhaps you can explain the reasons for including it in your list.

Also I noticed that in Sexy_Reactor's list, he only ran 3 wastelands and instead opted to run the 9th cycling land (atleast I'm assuming that's the tradeoff he made for only running 3 wastes...), which to me just points at the necessity of always getting a few of these within your first few turns, and that running 8 might not be enough.

You don't really need the full quartet of wastelands. Devastating Dreams handles the land screw by itself very nicely.

Here is an updated list I have been working on,

Mana :::

4x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstaind Mire
3x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Badlands
1x Mountain
1x Forest
3x Wasteland/Barbarian Ring
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
1x Barren Moor
4x Mox Diamond

4x Wall of Blossoms
2x Wall of Roots
2x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Shell Scarab

4x Burning Wish
3x Life from the Loam
3x Devastating Dreams
3x Gamble
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Seismic Assualt
4x MetaGame Slots [additional aggro hate, more discard against control/combo, et cetera]

SideBoard :

1x Devastating Dreams
1x Life from the Loam
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x HullBreach
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Huanting Echoes
Xx Duress
Xx Chalice of the Void
Xx FireStorm/Fire Covenant
Xx Pithing Needle

Changes, the roars were cut because they were pretty inefficent. Although, I discussed the deck with Bane of the Living and he likes Wild Mongrel in the deck, so I could see their inclusions in that build/style of the deck. The manabase was fixed, the bayou was needed because there are games were g/b is more important then red.

I havent played the white splash without confinement in tournament. In that version Im playing 3 Brushhoppers and 3 Swords to Plowshares as my white cards. The black version was what I played this Sunday.

Normally no I dont lose to crypts but my Thresh opponent saw 3 of them and 3 is just too many. I dont own any needles at the moment so I had to swallow it all like a big boy.

The list I used looked alot like Windux's list. Very tight. I like the inclusion of Stronghold, has it helped?

I think relying on 3-4 Assaults is a mistake for this archetype. It's the first card needled and triple red can be too hard to get by turn 3 against black decks, when you'd want to drop it asap due to discard.

Brushhopper seems really strong in the games Ive played with him. He's nearly impossible to kill if you have LftL changing your gameplan much more aggro. He's good with dreams because of his 4 ass. Often being the only creature left in play. He's also another discard outlet for Roar. Swords is great removal and this deck needs a good removal card besides dreams. I brought Ghastly Demise in against alot of opponents and stp is only better.

Im still not sure whether I like the black or white splash best. Both are great options for the deck.

@Sideboarded Roar
I dont like having this here, I barely wish for it. But I feel safe with a win condition to wish for, thoughts??

@Kosmon
You can pull off 25 lands if your running enough ways to get LftL (gamble, burning wish) and if you play 4 Diamonds.
3 Wastelands seems to be enough sometimes, I've opted to use a utility land such as Mishras Factory in place of the 4th wasteland. Factory is a recurring kill condition, recurring blocker, and a recurring creature to flashback therapies. Barb ring is often worth inclusion because Assault can be needled. Especially for people not playing Mongrel. I've found Maze of Ith to be very subpar.

Ive done a bit of testing with Top now and Im very pleased. Its amazing with all the fetchlands, making hands with a top, a mox, and 5 lands quite good hands. Its got an emergency dredge ability and saves precious spells on top of your deck to hide from black discard. Top seems to be an auto 3 of in these decks to me.

In which matchups would you rather side in the chalices (and presumably side out the therapies), and in which matchups would you rather side in duress (and keep in therapy)? Chalice for 1 seems like the only reason to play it, but it has anti-synergy with both therapy and duress.

Vs Combo (High Tide), would you rather have 3 therapy + 4 duress, or just 4 chalice? Or is the matchup so bad that you need 4 chalice + 3 therapy + 4 duress just to ensure that you draw one of the above cards, even if playing chalice for 1 invalidates half of the other cards you sided in?

High Tide seems to be the worse combo match for you, Chalice does little against them anyways. They can still wish for Chain of Vapor. It doesnt stall them much. I was maindecking Chalice for a while, Im still thinking about it tho playing Gamble and now Top kind of messes that up. I havent played with both the black splashed discard as well as Chalice, it just seems anti synergistic to me.

Therapy and Duress are still good against non combo so keeping the discard over CotV seems like the way to go.

Eric are you finding 3 Assaults and 1 Scarab to be enough win conditions? I was missing my mongrels or Roar's when testing your build. You dont have much hope in racing combo I dont think. Then again.. Fuck the combo match.

Have you guys looked at Nassif's list from the grand prix? Its amazing how it can get a confinement lock and a forbid lock to protect it. Its ability to set up is amazing as well. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

High Tide seems to be the worse combo match for you, Chalice does little against them anyways. They can still wish for Chain of Vapor.

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Did you just suggest wishing for Chain of Vapor to bounce Chalice for 1?

Isn't the new Crime//Punishment a much better choice against rifter than Haunting Echoes? Taking out multiple Lightning Rifts seems like a good thing to me...

@ Win Conditions: I have found that 3 Seismic Assaults and 1 Scarab have been enough. Especially since you can use some Regrowth effect to get back Dredged Assaults or what not. And Haunting Echoes is a win condition all it's own. That card is freaking sick.

@ Combo: Decks like Solidarity are going to smash us because they are just faster and have Force and Remand. After board you get all sorts of random good stuff to put in, but it is always going to be a tough fight. Slower combo should be much easier as they are more vulnerable to DD and such.

My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Then again.. Fuck the combo match.

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QFT ... Everydeck has their bad matchups, and solidarity/Burn are nightmares. Chalice helps out here against both of these decks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

@ Win Conditions: I have found that 3 Seismic Assaults and 1 Scarab have been enough. Especially since you can use some Regrowth effect to get back Dredged Assaults or what not. And Haunting Echoes is a win condition all it's own. That card is freaking sick.

@ Combo: Decks like Solidarity are going to smash us because they are just faster and have Force and Remand. After board you get all sorts of random good stuff to put in, but it is always going to be a tough fight. Slower combo should be much easier as they are more vulnerable to DD and such.

My 2 cents.

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I just want to second this statement. Haunting Echoes is unquestionably a super duper bomb-ah!

Regarding the hated combo:
I haven't yet resigned myself to failure, so I'm going to keep working til I find something that works (or I come to my senses). Right now I'm trying out Krosan Reclamations, Anger, and a single Terravore (these all would go in the Metagame slot in SR's build). I'm pretty sure this is closer to trash than tech, but best to try and fail then something something something.

I guess the game would go something like this, play a couple of walls and cycle/tutor to find Seismic Assault to put something resembling "pressure" on the solidarity player. Then when they go off, KR Terravore to top, flashback Cabal Therapy X2-3, cast and swing for win.

If Iggy pop is a problem in your meta, use one of your slots for a Mana Short. All you need to do is Gamble for it, and the beauty is you don't care if you gamble it away. As long as you keep Mox Diamond and two other lands up (or another hypothetical blue source), they cannot go off. You win.

Most every other combo is dealt with Pithing Needle, which is something you might want in your sideboards anyways coughTormod's Cryptcough.

Anyways you guys rock! I know I will continue to leech off of your almighty legacy knowledge (until I can put together a group to do some serious testing).

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Originally Posted by Sexy_Rector

QFT ... Everydeck has their bad matchups, and solidarity/Burn are nightmares. Chalice helps out here against both of these decks.

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Well, at least, Burn is stupid and Resets are 20 dollar cards from a decade old set. :D

I did some testing last night, although only a few games so the data is still limited but trinisphere proved to be quite effective versus the combo players. That plus devastating dreams is ohhhh so saucy vs. combo players .....

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Originally Posted by Sexy_Rector

I did some testing last night, although only a few games so the data is still limited but trinisphere proved to be quite effective versus the combo players. That plus devastating dreams is ohhhh so saucy vs. combo players .....

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Are you thinking 3sphere in the SB instead of Chalice? Both are pretty anti-synergestic with many cards in this deck - the question is, which has the best anti-synergy yet devastating-for-opponent ratio?

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1st place - Warmonger - Land-Ho!

1 Genesis
3 Eternal Witness

3 Life from the Loam
4 Spark Spray
3 Lightning Rift
3 Roar of the Wurm
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Gilded Light
1 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ray of Distortion

2 Secluded Steppe
2 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
2 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Trinisphere
3 Moment's Peace
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Decree of Annihilation
1 Gilded Light

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Here is my decklist which let me to win league-tournament about week ago. it's original name is Drap-Drap and I posted it also in competition forum, but...

I slashed white mostly for guilded light which effectively deal with combo and everything that is a threat for us - Crypt, Burn, Echoes, Disciple (?), Chant.

Rift is great against everyting - cheap, unlimited source of burn and DOPES NOT cause card disadvantage.

33 lands are much more useful then than they look - mana screw is VERY rare and immortal Mishras like to win a game.

Deck is immune to most of disruption, both Needle and Scepter/Chant mean nothing to me. Consistence is ubelievable.

Sideboard is universal and gives me chances against everything.

Alright guys I cant put this off anymore. Heres the worst tournament report I've ever given..

I played this list at Kadilaks.

3 Wasteland
1 Mishras Factory
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Taiga
1 Volraths Stronghold
4 Mox Diamond

4 Wild Mongrel
4 Wall of Blossoms
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
2 Roar of the Wurm

3 Gamble
4 Burning Wish
3 Devestating Dreams
1 Seismic Assault
3 Life from the Loam
2 Sensei's Divinging Top
3 Cabal Therapy

SB
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devestating Dreams
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cave In
4 Duress
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pithing Needle

Round 1 Garv
I beat the shit out of him game 1. Dreams is just too much for r/g aggro. Game 2 He kills me with a quick Troll with 2 Rancors on it. Game 3 gets really close. I dreams I think twice and stabilize at 16. I have a mongrel and a roar token. He swings with Rancored Mongrel and I block with only the Wurm... opps. He pitches like 6 cards and Berserks it ftw. Next turn I was going to dredge back and play my Scarab or play my Seismic Assault. Good game Garv.

Round 2 Team Wizards guy with Gobs.
He starts slow and I turn 1 with for LftL. I play 2 Walls and I wait another turn playing mongrel before Dreams. He has a fanatic and 2 drivers out. Eot he vials a third Driver. MAINDECK pyro's a wall. Gempalms another wall. And swings for a whole shit ton. I still cast dreams but a couple more gobs finish the job. Game 2 I had Loam going insanely well but see no Dreams. He drops Goblin King and mountain walks all over my ass ftw. I think I remember winning game 1 or 2.. I forget.

Round 3 SillyMetalGAT with Golden Grahams.
Ok DCI reporter hates us. There are only 4 of us from Worc and we pair up..
Game one he plays and opens with a Bayou, Chromatic Sphere. I play Mox and Wasteland. Instead of playing Gamble and wasting his land I play Burning Wish. He plays a land, LED x2. Living Wish, blow LED's for white, cast Salvagers and win.
Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and my 2 Therapies cant stop him from casting Gamekeeper and finding Darksteel Colossus. Loam scoops to DC hardcore just so everyone knows...

Round 4 Some Old Dude with Dimir
His deck doesnt put up much of a fight, I get the nuts against him of course... He dies to Assault and Dreams both games.

Round 5 Some Dude with Gobs
He starts slow but gains advantage because of Vial. He gets out men and drops Goblin King mountain walk ftw. Game 2 things look ok, I play against gobs as planned and playtested. I Ghastly Demise his Lackey and get Loam going. I start to go aggro against him because Im sick of waiting for Dreams, 2 Dogs on the table, one goes in a turn. I cast Roar. He plays Ringleader and hits the Jackpot. Mountainwalk ftw again!! I did win one game against him but I forget which one.

Round 6 Whit3 Ghost with r/b aggro
I nuke his lands and men but he comes back with Hippy. I cant kill the foolish 2/2 flier and die after a long battle. Game 2 Siege Trolls wtf?? block my men all damn game and his Wrech eats my loam targets. I start coming back with a mongrel and a roar token, he plays Perish.. I stabilize at 3 life with dreams and a couple turns later he bolts me.

So I played out all 6 painfull rounds. A 20 dollar tournament isnt worth dropping. The deck did so poorly it really turned me off the whole aggro control loam concept. Im not sure what went wrong but alot of random cards out of opponents threw me off my games.

Props
Gamble, for never losing me the 'good card' all day.
Life from the Loam, for not showing up in only 1 game.
Lego Army Man, for the piece of cookie.
niknight for the ride.
Bacardi 151 for helping me drown my sorrows.
Anyone else that braved a lftl deck.

Slops
Opponents that mised Goblin Kings.
Siege Troll.
Altered States for wanting 3-5 dollars too much for any given rare.
My luck.

Sedge Troll, not Siege Troll.

Thanks for the report, I always like reading them!

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Lego Army Man, for the piece of cookie.

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Sorry it was only a piece. I think a whole one went to your girlfriend. Also sorry about your abysmal showing. Maybe you should board out Mountains versus Goblins.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

2 Sensei's Divinging Top

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How did they work for you? Are they really necessary as an addition to the 8 cycling lands you use?

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Maybe you should board out Mountains versus Goblins.

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LoL - You made me spit up my coffee.

Seriously, though, do you usually beat Goblins, Bane?
I was under the impression that the game typically goes well since you stopped using Firestorm.