I'm a little bit worried. It's a "vanilla" creature that gets larger just as the game state progresses, just like Tarmogoyf. And this time, it pitches to Force.
That said, I will thoroughly enjoy pointing Big Game Hunter at this guy.
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I'm a little bit worried. It's a "vanilla" creature that gets larger just as the game state progresses, just like Tarmogoyf. And this time, it pitches to Force.
That said, I will thoroughly enjoy pointing Big Game Hunter at this guy.
Island-walk just got the Heimlich Maneuver, I was worried that thresh would be dropping off the map (making Merfolk worse) :tongue:
Woa I definitly see Fish Liver oil going for no less than $10 a piece now, better stock up on them while they are still cheap!Quote:
Originally Posted by ssilver
Good thing I can get a gallon of that at the local Chinese grocery store for way less than $10.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
This card is amazing. I really don't think this is going to be it's final version though, I'm sure its going to be an until end of turn effect.
I am just happy that it is listed as uncommon.
Just think how many people would get burned if it was listed as rare and this wasn't the correct wording :D
I just can't see the card being printed as is. Not as a 2/2 Uncommon. There's gonna be a catch here, or at least I hope there is. It's so obviously powerful, unlike Tarmogoyf. I'd like it as a 1/1 better.
Very nice card. Playable, but not the end of the world.
After testing the card, I've found he's not always immediately relevant enough to the gamestate given his casting cost. 3cc better be a game winning spell in heavy-cantrip grow decks. Sometimes Serpent was that game winning spell (saw him hit 11/11 in one game!), and sometimes he wasn't (2/2 sucks at blocking). If this were a 2cc card, then I'd be willing to say 'omfg', but at 3cc, he's not gamebreaking.
I thought this was the perfect card for grow, but he just doesn't convert your previous resources into an immediate effect like Threshold-mechanic creatures. His abuse of future resources is obviously more consistent than Dryad, but it should be, he costs 1 more.
That said, he can grow big time. If he is unanswered, and not forced to play defensively before he can grow, he gets huge. It isn't difficult to see Brainstorm, Top, and natural turn draws push him to 7/7 or even higher.
You pretty much want to play UG/w if you play serpent because you need very sustainable control elements to make the game last long enough to abuse Serpent. Assuming white, I'm not convinced he's better than Rhox War Monk.
Rhox comes into play immediately as a defensive card. 3/4 blocks a lot of creatures and lives, and the lifelink is extremely relevant to halting aggro-plans. Rhox is a consistent card, with very definable values in a given role, while the serpent is a bit more conditional and less reliable.
Times when Serpent was clearly better than Rhox:
1.) You had an unused Brainstorm in hand and a 4th mana.
2.) You were in a slightly better than neutral or winning position, and didn't need (or couldn't foresee a need for) immediate defense.
Even other Goyf-complementary cards like Dark Confidant are serious competition for serpent. Confidant feeds you cards at a very playable 2cc, and is useful at any number of turns, while Serpent requires a few turns before he becomes worth his cost.
Will test more though. The card is clearly very good, but he isn't Goyfhype-worthy.
peace,
4eak
If Wisescale Serpent is printed with the current wording people will play more bounce main deck, which also allows for more answers to other non-creature threats. This is a pretty healthy switch in the meta since far too many decks ignore the ability to remove non-creatures in game 1. Adding bounce to deal with this guy will also make decks more sound against other permanent based strategies. On another note doesn't Path to Exile look a lot better now? I can see white making a comeback as a major splash for StP and PtE at like the 6 or 7 level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
The thing is though that boucne is aweful, it's card disadvantage and most decks won't wnat to play that in a match were card advantage is so important. Why spend mana and a card to bounce him when you can kill him with sowrds to plaowshares or snuff out for equal or less mana.
Bounce has the advantage that it solves a multitude of potential problems temporarily. You trade off power for flexibility. In a lot of concepts it's much weaker than more directed outright removal, however in decks that can profit from the interval to kill or lock down the game it's possibly stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
TES plays bounce and not StP or Krosan Grip because it plans to win the game in the interval in which it has removed the permanent and before it lands again. The versatility of bounce, which can remove Counterbalance or Gaddock Teeg or other less played problems, is what makes it valuable to TES as a weapon.
I think there are control schemes, particularly ones exploiting Counterbalance, that are using less bounce than they should, given that Counterbalance can negate the card disadvantage in many scenarios.
Bounce is still inferior to an answer though, Engineered Explosives, Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate, I guess in MUC there is Repeal, but if the option is there to play EE @ 2+ I'd rather have it than a bounce spell.
The only one I could see getting more play is Submerge, and that's cause its alot more than a bounce spell tempo wise, especially if you're opponent has a fetchland on the stack.
You're talking about Wipe Away and Unsummon and crap like that. The rest of us are talking about Submerge.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
Also, nobody that is playing Swords to Plowshares or Snuff Out is going to stop playing them.
I don't consider submerge a bounce spell. Bounce spells return it to your hand, submerge does not do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
The point is that I don't think anybody is talking about putting Boomerangs in their maindeck or sideboard as an answer for Wisescale Serpent.
Wipe Away, Rushing River, and Echoing Truth currently see small amounts of play in Legacy. Those cards will be somewhat better against Serpent than they are against Goyf. That's all I was saying.
Canadian thresh plays 1 wipe away and 1 RR (recently most have been cutting RR) very well. I dont see why bounce is so maligned it isnt that bad keep in mind bounce can function as a bad counter spell if you need to save the target (goyf) in the situation.Quote:
You're talking about Wipe Away and Unsummon and crap like that. The rest of us are talking about Submerge.
In any event I think this card will see 2-3 of play in legacy, it MIGHT see 4 of play in some decks but not decks that run goose.
Echoing Truth and Rushing River are the cards I think might be promoted a bit. Wipe Away is a bit too limited, with just one potential target, to see much play I think. ET hits tokens too and Rushing River let's you potentially pick up the opponent's Counterbalance and Goyf if you need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
If you're splashing black or white then there is no reason you should be playing bounce.
Whoever said the ability triggered off of a "spell or ability that would cause you to draw a card"... where did you get that information? The thread on mtgsalvation does not mention that anywhere. I think it probably actually does trigger on your draw step.
I asked that same question on mtgs but didn't get an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
On a different note, the card is apparently now called Wisescale Coatl.