Message to all SCG grinders finding Show and tell dumb or just wanting to win

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Originally Posted by Lejay

In case you didn't notice, this deck makes High tide quite obsolete.

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High Tide can recover from discard and liliana. something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by Adryan

High Tide can recover from discard and liliana. something to keep in mind.

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High Tide can't dilute its maindeck with large numbers of counterspells (or play Leyline of Sanctity) like Omintell can, due to the mechanics of going off with Time Spiral. The statistical chance of fizzling increases to an unacceptable point once you pass 8-9 protection spells in the deck. Like Feline I prefer High Tide because the deck is both enjoyable and skill-testing to pilot properly, however I hold no illusions that Omnitell isn't much stronger. I simply do not like the derpy playstyle of SnT decks in general, otherwise I'd be playing it.

EDIT: While High Tide can deal with point discard and even Hymns to some degree, Liliana is a huge problem because you need at least 2 cards in hand to combo (unlike TES, where you can drop mana into play and then topdeck a bomb).

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Originally Posted by Koby

We're discussing Legacy, not Vintage Workshop decks here. There is no successful 12ball Legacy deck even remotely in anyone's radar.

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Maybe he was referring to MUD: chalice of the void, trinispehere, lodestone golem, rishadan port plus a clock surely give you a positive matchup against almost any combo deck.

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

Maybe he was referring to MUD: chalice of the void, trinispehere, lodestone golem, rishadan port plus a clock surely give you a positive matchup against almost any combo deck.

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Not when the deck is fast enough. Like that stupid Jizzlebrand Reanimator deck (I'm looking at you Koby)

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

Not when the deck is fast enough. Like that stupid Jizzlebrand Reanimator deck (I'm looking at you Koby)

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Well, that's true: that matchups are almost decided at the die roll.

I connected just in time to SCG Baltimore's live to see the game 3 of the last round and a dream halls players throwing away his top8 versus Todd Anderson.
Only 3 dream halls in the top 16. Please make better next event and please good players : get on board guys.

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Originally Posted by Lejay

I connected just in time to SCG Baltimore's live to see the game 3 of the last round and a dream halls players throwing away his top8 versus Todd Anderson.
Only 3 dream halls in the top 16. Please make better next event and please good players : get on board guys.

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There was actually a ton of Omnitell variants running around at SCGBalt. A lot of them were Releasing the Ants, some were more archaic. Looking around at the beginning of the day you'd swear half the room was on some form of Omnitell, though.

Obviously it had staggering top ranks penetration.

It's a very good deck. But it's also going to make Show and Tell cannibalize itself, since at least one of the other SnT strategies has pretty good moves here starting from Game 1. So perhaps calling it a very good deck for now would be more appropriate.

If this is your flagbearer for "Ban Show and Tell", I'd keep looking.

Well Enter the Infinite just hit 3 top 16's, I will not be unprepared for this deck next week at St Louis. Though I just look at it like this if I have to simplify it, though I know it's alot more complicated than just this short note:
Show and Tell + Sneak Attack
-then-
Show and Tell + Burning Wish (w/ Omnitell)
-then-
Show and Tell + Cunning Wish (w/ Omnitell & Dream Halls)
(and of course, don't forget Hive Mind because it's still around sometimes)

In the end, I know what I have to do, though I have to admit, I prefer versions of Show and Tell that DON'T run Sneak Attack, because I can Flusterstorm Burning Wish & Cunning Wish, but I can't do that to a Sneak Attack. In either case, I will not be unprepared for the Mono Blue Show and Tell, since it just had one heck of a successful run at Baltimore.

Why run high tide anymore ? Get on the dark side !!

The deck is definitely one to be ready for. Sadly there doesnt seem to be much that is good at fighting all types of Show and Tell... Im trying to think of something for Hoogland loam that can fight off the deck...

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Originally Posted by Worldslayer

There was actually a ton of Omnitell variants running around at SCGBalt. A lot of them were Releasing the Ants, some were more archaic. Looking around at the beginning of the day you'd swear half the room was on some form of Omnitell, though.

Obviously it had staggering top ranks penetration.

It's a very good deck. But it's also going to make Show and Tell cannibalize itself, since at least one of the other SnT strategies has pretty good moves here starting from Game 1. So perhaps calling it a very good deck for now would be more appropriate.

If this is your flagbearer for "Ban Show and Tell", I'd keep looking.

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I'm definitely interested to hear what the meta looked like on the floor. It sounds like you were there; you're saying that there were a lot of S&T Omniscience decks?

From what it looked like based on the match that was on camera, a player that clearly was inexperienced either with tournaments or the Infinite Cunning deck managed to make it to X-2. The guy made a pretty obvious mistake, which makes me think that the deck must be pretty powerful to make it this deep in the tournament.

Americans have always been 2-4 weeks behind Europe, so it's not really a surprise that Infinite Cunning hasn't had much penetration. There just aren't many good American combo players. Off topic: I'm curious to see if Deathblade is a real deck or if it's just some American grinder hive-mind deck.

Deathblade is just U/W stoneblade 4.0 or whatever, the 1st being the original, which ran mental misstep, then 2nd without it, then 3rd esperblade, now it's deathblade

I fricking love the fact that more and more of the % of cards in the field as a whole, are lowering their counterspells and increasing their discard, because one can use brainstorms to protect against discard while that doesn't work against discard, and discard is sorcery speed.

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

I'm definitely interested to hear what the meta looked like on the floor. It sounds like you were there; you're saying that there were a lot of S&T Omniscience decks?

From what it looked like based on the match that was on camera, a player that clearly was inexperienced either with tournaments or the Infinite Cunning deck managed to make it to X-2. The guy made a pretty obvious mistake, which makes me think that the deck must be pretty powerful to make it this deep in the tournament.

Americans have always been 2-4 weeks behind Europe, so it's not really a surprise that Infinite Cunning hasn't had much penetration. There just aren't many good American combo players. Off topic: I'm curious to see if Deathblade is a real deck or if it's just some American grinder hive-mind deck.

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On the floor, it looked like I was in a sea of people releasing ants in the morning. That drastically fell off as the rounds went on, though.

The deck IS powerful. It's a Show and Tell deck. Powerful is what they do.

The bit about "there just aren't many good American combo players", aside from being a regional assertion/bias I may or may not personally disagree with, does fly directly in the face of the "ban" argument which is more or less "This deck requires no thought or skill to pilot to a Top 8". It gives you a LOT of leeway to win despite mistakes just based on how silly strong SnT is, but it's also kind of bulky - there's not much room for maneuvering your way out of a prepared opponent who draws reasonably well. You're consistent, and strong, and armed to the teeth, but you still have to resolve "big clunky blue spell" to do anything. If they don't let you do that, there isn't much of a damn thing you can do about it. RUG Delver or the American Geist list from Baltimore seem pretty well prepared to take the fight there, and if Omniclash gets huge they'd be my first choices for retaliation.

Deathblade is a grinder deck. It's solid, has a bunch of little decisions and incremental value, and has a lot of different bases covered. It's one of the better "51%" decks I've seen, but at the end of the day it's still a 51% deck. I imagine it'll be around for awhile and just balance out its board position vs. stack dominance as the metagame progresses until they print....whatever does to Deathrite what Deathrite did to Snapcaster Mage, I'd suppose.

I just want to see one of these greedy mana bases get raped by a price of progress

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I just want to see one of these greedy mana bases get raped by a price of progress

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Yeah I watched a good portion of the last rounds and top 8 and I kept thinking how boss a Price of Progress would be in half those games.

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Originally Posted by feline

Deathblade is just U/W stoneblade 4.0 or whatever, the 1st being the original, which ran mental misstep, then 2nd without it, then 3rd esperblade, now it's deathblade

I fricking love the fact that more and more of the % of cards in the field as a whole, are lowering their counterspells and increasing their discard, because one can use brainstorms to protect against discard while that doesn't work against discard, and discard is sorcery speed.

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I think it's time to break out the Funeral Charm and Piracy Charm! :rolleyes:

Just tested like half a dozen games of Omniblue -vs- High Tide, if they resolve a Dream Halls, it's fricking annoying, because the Time Spiral's are not so one sided anymore ha ha.

Discard wrecks Show & Tell decks.

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Originally Posted by ddt15

Discard wrecks Show & Tell decks.

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Unless they resolve a T0 Leyline - then you're pretty much boned.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Unless they resolve a T0 Leyline - then you're pretty much boned.

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If you can head through a 8-9 round tourney and always sack into (1) and only (1) white leyline in the discard match presumably after mulliganing to it then you are either a savage cheater or you truly deserve to be champion.