[PRIMER] Oozing

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Ooze Pros
- The combo is far more resilient to graveyard hate (Can combo off through Tormod's Crypt, Relic, Extraction, DRS, Cage etc)
- Can hardcast a 4/3 and attack/block with it
- Flexibility of Instant-Speed reanimate spells
- Instantly win upon reanimation (You don't have to worry about your opponent comboing off on their turn or Liliana eating your guy or your fatty getting Karakas-bounced)

Ooze Cons
- Slow (Needs multiple specific pieces in the graveyard to combo, so while Reanimator can play a higher density of threats (4 Griselbrand + Iona + Elesh + Whatever) and bin them for U with careful study, Ooze often needs to set up by paying 2B for Buried Alive) (This is somewhat offset by the fact that you play rituals and Reanimator doesn't).
- No counterspells (This is less important when you can win the game on the spot but still obviously worth mentioning)
- No "Silver Bullet" reanimate targets (although most people are playing a couple of them in Ooze as a sort of transformational sideboard: normally they are not good when put into play with Shallow Grave)

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Very good analysis Kombatkiwi. Just a couple of points on your "cons" items 1 and 3:

1) I wouldn't call Oozing "slow", it is actually significantly faster than Reanimator. I often win T1 or T2.
3) Oozing uses Iona in the sideboard for the "silver bullet" effect. There are also 2 Exhume that come in together with Iona in the place of Shallow Grave.

@Kanti. In general, the way Oozing behaves is a mix between ANT and Reanimator. As Panda and Kombatkiwi have said, one of the best parts of Oozing is being able to work around some of the GY hate. What makes it really compelling to me is the fact that it is capable of changing gears in a moment when an opening presents itself and kill on the spot like ANT does. There is also a lot of flexibility in the deck allowing you to get out of very sticky situations in completely unpredictable ways.

As you already mentioned, the closest deck to Oozing is Tin Fins, they are both "headshot" decks and make use of similar mechanics to implement slightly different strategies.

Is it better than Reanimator? I don't know. To me is not only a matter of which is the strongest deck, it is also having the chance to play a deck that makes you think more and rewards akward lines of play instead of providing an almost always predictable game play.

As it is often said in these cases, if you already have some Reanimator experience, I'd suggest to try Oozing to touch the differences by yourself...the deck is a blast to play :wink:

Yup. People are genuinely scared of me when I play the deck because their hate just doesn't interact in the same way with Oozing as with a normal graveyard deck. The look on people's faces when you kill them through their multiple hate pieces is priceless. You will love it.

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

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That is very unfortunate, you generally combo right there after 21 cards or during the opponent upkeep. In the worst case you just shred their hand with multiple discard pieces and combo out during your next turn. I don't have an answer for you, not having been there to see the situation, but it is really rare that you don't see what you need in those cases.

In general the game is over when Griselbrand hits the table. If I understand your case you were forced to resummon after an unfortunate 7 cards draw and this costed you 3 very precious resources (1 Petal, 1 Ritual and a reanimation spell) that you probably missed in the subsequent 14 cards.

There are some fringe cases in the posted videos that show "creative" decision trees after the Griselbrand draw, I'd suggest you take a look at them and get a feeling. I'll review the videos tonight and point you to a list of the more interesting ones.

Just have to pop back in this thread to say that I won from a hardcast Devourer today vs DnT. I actually tried to kill him with Devourer in g2 as well as he StPd my t2 Griselbrand, and then StPd a Triskellion I reanimated to wipe his board of Thalia, Revoker, and Mom. I didn't make it that time, but g3 I somehow set myself up to 6 mana, then hardcast a Devourer after I drew 14 from a Necrotic Ooze w/ Griselbrand in the gy (he had a Containment Priest in hand, woo). He StPd the Ooze, but I just untapped, harcaster Devourer, and had a hand of like Shallow Grave x2, Abrupt Decay x2, x1 Massacre, and some other goodies. I basically just wrathed him and proceeded to Decay anything of value he had, all while having protection from another StP as Devourer protects itself. Pretty sure I coulda Shallow Graves>hasted Devourer if he even drew one out.

Icing on the cake? I drew a Putrid Imp the next turn and cast that as well. 2/2 with flying for B? Sure.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Just have to pop back in this thread to say that I won from a hardcast Devourer today vs DnT. I actually tried to kill him with Devourer in g2 as well as he StPd my t2 Griselbrand, and then StPd a Triskellion I reanimated to wipe his board of Thalia, Revoker, and Mom. I didn't make it that time, but g3 I somehow set myself up to 6 mana, then hardcast a Devourer after I drew 14 from a Necrotic Ooze w/ Griselbrand in the gy (he had a Containment Priest in hand, woo). He StPd the Ooze, but I just untapped, harcaster Devourer, and had a hand of like Shallow Grave x2, Abrupt Decay x2, x1 Massacre, and some other goodies. I basically just wrathed him and proceeded to Decay anything of value he had, all while having protection from another StP as Devourer protects itself. Pretty sure I coulda Shallow Graves>hasted Devourer if he even drew one out.

Icing on the cake? I drew a Putrid Imp the next turn and cast that as well. 2/2 with flying for B? Sure.

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Told you :smile:

The deck can win in unpredictable ways, this is what makes it different from the rest of the GY feeding family.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

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Unfortunate draws there. The reason Oozing is faster is it can kill T1 and do so without needing to use the combat phase.

Drawing 21 cards in a turn has always delivered me: (a) a combo win that turn; (b) a combo win in the opponent's next upkeep through discarding combo pieces and instant speed Dark Ritual/s, Entomb/s and Shallow Grave; or (c) an opponent with no relevant cards in hand courtesy of Therapy and the win in hand for the next turn.

I'd be curious to see what you drew in the 21. You have to be very careful in the combo turn because there a lot of little tricks available. For example, not playing a non-Blue land until after drawing with Griselbrand to enable a Brainstorm into possibly game-ending cards and a possible Entomb shuffle after.

Nice match against Esper Blade in the next two videos.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvo4NhlRzI

G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjS5c4_wndI

@Kanti, both games show a "liberal" use of Griselbrand fueled draws. During the second he quits when I cast the Massacre just drawn from Griselbrand ability.

The line in the second game where you sac Ooze to Therapy yourself was so sweet.

In that game did you consider using the ritual to cast Buried Alive instead of Ooze on your 3rd turn with the plan of untapping and casting Shallow Grave for the win on the 4th turn? It worked out in the end but assuming you have 3rd turn Ooze you can't win on turn 4 because you know your next draw is Brainstorm (not to mention if your Brainstorm doesn't find a mana source you're almost completely boned).

Just wondering if I'm missing something.

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

The line in the second game where you sac Ooze to Therapy yourself was so sweet.

In that game did you consider using the ritual to cast Buried Alive instead of Ooze on your 3rd turn with the plan of untapping and casting Shallow Grave for the win on the 4th turn? It worked out in the end but assuming you have 3rd turn Ooze you can't win on turn 4 because you know your next draw is Brainstorm (not to mention if your Brainstorm doesn't find a mana source you're almost completely boned).

Just wondering if I'm missing something.

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It could have been a legitimate play. My reasoning post-side is generally to play a Ooze before putting anything in the GY, the reason is that ooze is replaceable, what I put in the GY is not...

In this case it wouldn't have mattered, but I was being overcautios.

I agree with Raystar, Ooze on the battlefield is incredibly valuable because you resolve a Buried Alive and you win (or an Entomb if you attack unblocked and opp. doesn't have removal). Often, you can get in for lethal with Ooze because opp. has kept a hand so focussed on stopping the combo through the GY that they can't interact with the battlefield, only the stack. People often think I'm crazy when I take StP with Thoughtseize leaving a hand full of Flusterstorm/Pierce, only to be left in dismay when I hard cast Ooze and then next turn use all my spare mana to play an Entomb around said Flusterstorm/Pierce and win.

Another tip: do not, where possible, show: (a) the hardcast Ooze play; or (b) the attacking Ooze into Entomb for Devourer play in G1. I always try to go through the GY in G1 to influence opp.'s boarding to combat that.

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Originally Posted by pandaman

Another tip: do not, where possible, show: (a) the hardcast Ooze play; or (b) the attacking Ooze into Entomb for Devourer play in G1. I always try to go through the GY in G1 to influence opp.'s boarding to combat that.

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I actually do the same :wink:

You gotta watch us cagey older fellas.

Nice video of a G3 against D&T...Oozing at its best :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWsAprFR1VE

Every once in a while you get these gems...I love this deck :)

Why so many losses against delvers and Miracles? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Dziga Murnau

Why so many losses against delvers and Miracles? What's the problem?

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We play combo and they play countermagic...

Also, I'm not the best Magic player out there, which I'm sure contributes too.

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Originally Posted by pandaman

Also, I'm not the best Magic player out there, which I'm sure contributes too.

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...you....you....you have just stolen my trademark!!!!!!

:wink:

Nahahaha!