[DTW] Faerie Stompy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tivadar

Assuming we're talking mono-white AS, then AS has a great matchup against all aggro, goes 50/50 or so with heavy control decks (meaning its thresh matchup is a bit better than 50/50, but not much, preboard), and has a horrible matchup vs. most types of combo (especially solidarity).

It strikes me that this decks matchups are slightly worse against random aggro and gobbo (though still good, also, how do you handle piledriver?), significantly better against combo, and probably slightly worse against control, though I'm not sure on that one. My guess is that parallax wave would make the real difference here.

Once you get out of mono-white AS, all bets are off. I'm running WU, and while I don't get chalice, I do get meddling and force of will... Wub is also quite popular.

---

You bring up a good point about control. I'm not sure this deck has ever been tested against Landstill. Luckily there's not really much control floating around.

As for Piledriver, I thought he was going to be a HUGE problem but I've found otherwise. An active Jitte/sword wrecks their whole deck and can be used to kill Piledriver, or the other fellas that pump him. Other than that we have FoW and the newly added Cursed Scroll that can be fetched by our Trinket mages. I think he might be a large problem post-board if Goblins are playing REBs.

As little as I know about As, I know even less about multicolor. You run enough blue to run FoW?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phantom

You bring up a good point about control. I'm not sure this deck has ever been tested against Landstill. Luckily there's not really much control floating around.

As for Piledriver, I thought he was going to be a HUGE problem but I've found otherwise. An active Jitte/sword wrecks their whole deck and can be used to kill Piledriver, or the other fellas that pump him. Other than that we have FoW and the newly added Cursed Scroll that can be fetched by our Trinket mages. I think he might be a large problem post-board if Goblins are playing REBs.

As little as I know about As, I know even less about multicolor. You run enough blue to run FoW?

---

The biggest problem about Goblins boarding is not the REB it´s the Pyrostatic Pillar. With our Ancient Tombs it can hurt a lot to see how a Psi-Blast damages our opponent for 4 but us for 6. Or a creature like Serendib Efreet this hurts a lot. Goblins are boarding Disenchants, Pyrostatic Pillars, Armageddons, sometimes Lightning Helix. I´m going to try out some Sea Sprites instead of Meloku maybe it´ll work better than before. Yesterday i tried out the SaT Colossus plan. It´s kind of funny to see first a CotV=1 and in second turn a Darksteel Colossus. But it doesn´t work that often since you can run only 4 Show And Tell and 4 Colossus. The Colossus have a good synergy with Thirst For Knowledge and Fact Or Fiction. But if you have no SaT they´re useless unless you have the TfK. Rainbow Efreets are doing quite well since i´m running only 2 of them. I never need a full board to win that´s why i never had problems with removal. I´m going to try out Fabricate in the SB cuz against Sporefrog Locks an Jitte with counters on is game. I don´t like the idea of wasting a Psiblast for a 1/1 Sporefrog. My SB is as it follows atm:

4 Misdirection
3 Chill
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod´s Crypt
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Cursed Scroll

I really like having Psionic Blasts around. It allows me to kill Spike Weavers, Spore Frogs and such to buy the time I need to accumulate Jitte-counters (against creature-based disruption, Jitte-counters are teh hawt), or just the time to swing FTW.

I was going to test Landstill, but haven't gotten by it yet as there have been more important concerns. Your results are very much like mine, Phantom, Deadguy is incredibly easy pre- and post-board. The deck is just not built to handle with a number of quick, large creatures. Rifter depends much on the build, WoGs could be worse than Pyroclasms as they actually kill our creatures. Also, SB Blasts are very frustrating. Post-SB I suggest a Chalice at 1 as they have StPs, Blasts and perhaps Chants.


Gozen: I've rarely had trouble with Pyrostatic Pillar. If Goblins don't have Blasts to sideboard, I find it to be really easy. I mean, sure we damage ourselves a lot with the amount of spells we play, but the match-up still comes down to Jittes and SoFIs.


tivadar: Against control though, FS has access to Chalice and Force of Will which both help immensely. Also, Faerie Stompy plays few manlands which helps and is overall the faster deck as it runs more acceleration. Also, FS has reach in Psionic Blasts (and now testing a singleton Cursed Scroll as Trinket Mage-target), allowing us to finish off control from high lifetotal (in a version with Cursed Scroll, that is).

Piledrivers are generally killed through Sword of Fire and Ice and Jitte. They're obviously pretty scary since they're essentially unblockable, but the fact that all our guys fly helps. And yea, equipment and Chalices keep the Goblin-population low so Piledrivers never get very big. When the deck does lose to Goblins, it's mostly to the mass with a Piledriver thrown in, but it happens rarely enough. The MU is immensely good and if I had to pick a single MU I wanted to play all tournament, after Deadguy and Burn it'd probably be Goblins (Goblins without Blast-SB, that is).

Monkey: The reason AS isn't considered Top Tier is its horrible match-up to anything combo. FS has quite a good one with maindeck disruption in form of Chalices, and tutors for it too, as well as Force of Wills. Also, FS seems to have a better match-up against Threshold, than AS. It could be possible that the deck indeed becomes top tier eventually. We'll see. If it does though, Sea Drake-availability will be a huge problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldariel

Monkey: The reason AS isn't considered Top Tier is its horrible match-up to anything combo. FS has quite a good one with maindeck disruption in form of Chalices, and tutors for it too, as well as Force of Wills. Also, FS seems to have a better match-up against Threshold, than AS.

---

Can you explain your Thresh matchup? I'm not claiming you're incorrect, I'm just wondering how the games usually go. Seems like Chalice will be the backbreaker here, but otherwise you're not going to have an overwhelmingly great matchup. Chalice might be good enough to make it that great though, just wondering what you thought about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man

Can you explain your Thresh matchup? I'm not claiming you're incorrect, I'm just wondering how the games usually go. Seems like Chalice will be the backbreaker here, but otherwise you're not going to have an overwhelmingly great matchup. Chalice might be good enough to make it that great though, just wondering what you thought about it.

---

Well, out of the 20 games I tested with a newer build, most come down to either resolving a Chalice or forcing them to destroy their hand with FoWs (it's amazing how effectively the deck falls apart when it's denied its cantrips, be it through Force pitches or Chalice). After Chalice, they'll basically never reach 4 lands to resolve an Enforcer, so it's academic. Without Chalice, the games are pretty even. Equipment can give them fits, so they don't like seeing Swords and Jittes resolving, but they do have Needles. Fast flying clocks early on tend to do them in; they're basically forced to either Force or StP a turn 1 fatto or they're history.

Enforcer didn't turn out to be as big as I thought it would. Actually, if I played Threshold, I'd just cut 'em. They're win-more really and just too hard on the manabase. The games Threshold wins are generally ones where it can deny Faerie Stompy the larger threats (and obviously Chalice) and outsize the defenses and ride Werebears to victory. Mongeese have hard time impressing with Efreets and company around, they're slower clocks, but Faerie Stompy's own damage makes Werebears very scary. Actually, combat as Faerie Stompy is one thing I'll have to train in this match-up. I realized that in testing, I didn't sufficient utilize the flying advantage. Basically, Faerie Stompy can choose when to trade life and when not to. I often used Cloud of Faeries to chumpblock, but I now realize I should've left an Efreet and a Cloud back while pecking away with the last Cloud for 2 turns to Alpha him to death, but I lost that game to bad play. But yea, Threshold wins if it can deny Faerie Stompy the threats and itself draw into multiples. 2-3 Werebears and an Enforcer is the scale of offense, Faerie Stompy just can't handle, so Threshold's goal in the MU is to keep Faerie Stompy off-balance with StPs and counters and develop a large board presence. The thing is, with Threshold's cantrips and Faerie Stompy's speed, Threshold generally lacks the necessary time it needs to sculpt its hand with the cantrips, which is what gives it trouble. When the questions you need to answer are asked turns 1-3, there's precious little time for casting those Brainstorms, Serum Visions and Portents. Also, Fact or Fiction proved to be helpful as it just break's threshold's back if it resolves, and since it's an instant, it can be cast whenever it's convenient (for example, at my EoT in response to their draw, or at their EoT when they'd like to leave counter-mana open). Obviously the equipment helped too (the list I tested against now was the UGw winning list from Kadilak's. I'm going to test against UGb and UGr later with the present build, as well as the post-SB games, although I'd wager, UGw is the toughest out of the bunch) as even Cloud of Faeries or Sea Sprite becomes too quick a clock for Werebear to race with a Sword or a Jitte. And Jitte with 3 counters>any creature can attack right through Mystic Enforcers. That's why it never really played that big a part, either Threshold had won already or it wasn't enough to stop the flood.

But yea, the thing which pushes it into positivity is definately Chalice+Trinket Mages (and draw being added giving us some actual staying power too). I won a game where I mulled down to 4 just because Threshold didn't have a FoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man

Can you explain your Thresh matchup? I'm not claiming you're incorrect, I'm just wondering how the games usually go. Seems like Chalice will be the backbreaker here, but otherwise you're not going to have an overwhelmingly great matchup. Chalice might be good enough to make it that great though, just wondering what you thought about it.

---

This is actually why I proxied up the deck. I didn't believe that Eldariel's #s were correct about the matchups and I wanted to prove him wrong. Now I know that his #'s were correct and that he's much smarter than I am. If you look back a few pages I tested the new build (w/ Trinkets, FoFs and one Cursed Scroll) and had astounding results against UGw Thresh (which I'm assuming is our worst thresh matchup with all the pro red floating around).

I'll be interested to see the post board numbers. They get Needle and maybe some disenchants while we get E.Explosives and Crypts. Also, Misdiresction and Binding Grasp if we choose.

Basically since the day I took up the deck I've been looking for ways to improve the Thresh matchup without hurting the Goblins or Combo matchup. I think we've done a bang-up job.

I think that post board I might still lay Chalice @2 vs. Rifter. I guess it depends on how many Blasts they board and if I have a FoW, but it's almost imposible for them to win without Rift or Disenchant. They have to lay Humilty and wait for a huge Decree (Cursed Scroll was huge here both before and after Decree) or try to handle all your critters and hardcast a Dragon (Pro Red + FoF FTW).

EDIT: Does Eng. Expolsives kill tokens? I'm guessing not.

yes it kills token if you set it at 0. but it doesn´t kill token that are exact copies of a creature in play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Son_Gozen

yes it kills token if you set it at 0. but it doesn´t kill token that are exact copies of a creature in play.

---

That is, it doesn't kill copies, but it does kill tokens. Tokens have a converted mana cost of 0. However, if any effect copies a card, it copies all aspects including the converted mana cost (and well, mana cost in general). So, Soul Foundry-copied Goblin Lackey would die to Engineered Explosives at 1. Siege-Gang Commander's little friends all blow up to EE at 0. Generally copies aren't called 'tokens' although I guess they technically still are.

i was thinking of a green splash
the green splash brings cards
like wild mongrel
intuition for wonder 3 roar
that s huge card advantage
the list that i used to test had good result vs nearly everything but goblin

4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
2 island
1 seat of the synod(trinket target)
1 tree of tales
4 tropical islands
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

3 roar of the wurms
1 wonder
4 intuition
creatures

4 trinket mage
4 sea drake
4 wild mongrel
4 aquamoeba
4 basking rootwalla
4 serendib efreet

4 umezawa's jitte
1 tormod's crypt
1 pithing needle

the main difference between this deck and the faeris stompy is intuition
intuition resolves its game cause you are looking for wonder and two roars
you really need maindeck tormod 's crypt for trinket mage target
cause call threshold and iggy pop are played
roar of the wurn is very powerfull you can play it turn three
i used to play chrome mox but didn t like them cause ofen you have two of them in the hand and it sucks maybe playing three could be good in a monocolour i agree but two colour you really need your tropical island
the format as also got quick removal so you don t want to waste a creature on a chrome mox and the two others be killed by lightning bolt or swords
the main problem i had was against goblin cause i don t have any removal but jitte which is slow maybe playing in the side propaganda to slow down goblin and killing them by the air
another problem of this deck is the mana base having two ancient tomb sucks

Green splash seems to contribute a whopping nothing for the deck. Maindeck Tormod's Crypt is simply unnecessary, you don't need a Crypt to beat Threshold or Iggy-Pop, they're just used to further improve the match-ups post-board. Having a singleton Crypt in the main would just turn out completely dead card in many match-ups (like Rifter) especially after resolving lots of draw.

Intuition may be worth considering, but sure as hell that would warrant Deep Analysis and Deep Analysis only. When just about all creatures in the deck fly, Wonder is less than stellar and Roar, while a good card, just doesn't seem worth splashing green for. Dropping Chalices, Swords and Moxes? Na-a. 2-colour build should definately run Engineered Explosives, it's already good in 1-colour build, it'd be insane in 2-colour build.

Besides, that build is definately going to have a worse Deadguy- and Goblin-match with the inherent speed of the deck lost, no relevant turn 1 plays, total vulnerability to Wasteland (Islands and Moxes migtate this in the blue build), etc. I simply don't see why you'd want to add green; the deck already has a pretty damn good match-up against most of the field. Adding Green certainly doesn't fix any problems the deck presently has, but it does create a boatload of new ones. Seriously, I'll promise you, give me Rifter and I'm going to trash that build 10 out of 10 games. A resolved Humility is basically game and you have no ways of stopping it. After that, you're left with Jittes and they still have a deckful of removal and decrees and all that. The present version patches that up with Forces (and card draw to find them), higher speed and twice the equipment you're running.


Intuition, not a bad idea, but that build just seems like a weaker version. Deep Analysis is something I'll definately try out in the draw-slot, since when I draw it, opponent will have to counter it twice (good luck with that, Thres) and it might go with Intuition too. It's worth a shot (especially since I've got Intuitions lying around uselessly in my binder -.-). Intuition would give the deck an actual tutor too.

I thought of Intuition a while ago, but I saw too many problems for me to deem it test worthy. You'd have to add at least 3 Deep Analysis, so now we're devoting 2 spots to draw. Also, we are devoting two turns to draw (assuming we can't get UU and 5 mana reliable). I've never liked Intuition as a tutor. If I go get 3 pieces of equipment and the one that doesn't get discarded gets countered or removed, I've severely hurt my chances of drawing another. Basically, I've thinned my deck for the bad.

Deep Analysis by itself certainly has some merit(like the double counter aspect), but still a few drawbacks:

1) The next 2 cards might be useless. We run a fair amount of awful to mediocre midgame cards. Usually we are looking for a big beater or equipment. Occasionally FoW or a Blast.

2) Everything in this deck hurts us. Do we need more self pain?

3) Casting it with Ancient Tomb is some bad. Flashing it back with one is even worse.



As for the green build: You're all over the place. Either play madness or the F. Stomp, but not both (check out Uber Madness for a pretty cool build).

Also, I agree that the Crypts should remain sideboarded, but I have added the 1 Cursed Scroll for good. I've found it to be solid enough in every matchup I've tested.

I'm also testing with 1 MD Scroll, but it has yet to really prove itself. I wasn't thinking 4 Intuitions and 4 DAs, just 1-3 Intuitions and 2-3 DAs (you can toss something else into the Intuition. If they give you DA, you can cast it and flashback it). The thing I like about DA is, Threshold has to counter it twice or give you more guys. Either way, you'll get card advantage. Not so with any other drawer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldariel

I'm also testing with 1 MD Scroll, but it has yet to really prove itself.

---

I was iffy on it after testing Thresh. The only thing it helped me do was hasten the clock a little, and it killed an Enforcer with help from a Blast. Not exactly an MVP.

Where it shined for me was the Gobins and Rifter matchups. Psychic Blast is a horrific removal card against Goblins. They would gladly trade card for card +2 of your life. Chalice is pretty good vs. Gobs, but only if you play it turn 1 on the play, so I generally fetch my Scroll. Normally I can't attack over Goblins unless I have equipment of some sort for fear of the 10 point rush. Scroll gives me colorless, instant removal. Basically I use it to kill Warchief before he can attack, and Piledriver any time of day.

I was suprided at how useful Scroll was against Rifter. Once I figured out that the goal should be to get Chalice @2 down as quick as possible, I started fetching the Scroll with my Trinkets and never looked back. Rifters only course of action is to lay Humility and attempt to cycle out a huge Decree. Scroll prevents them from doing that by putting them on a clock as well as removing their tokens.

It may not deserve maindeck inclusion, but I'm putting it in there for now. After all, it only shows up in ~ 1/6 games.

Well, I've often won games with Goblins by taking out Warchief at the beginning of combat step. Nothing really takes wind out of their sails quite like losing their mass haste. I'd figure that CScroll could be good indeed and against Rifter as well, but on SB, I don't really worry about Goblins (Needle and EE are more generally useful and happen to hit against Goblins) and Winter Orb is far stronger versus Rifter.

If it belongs anywhere, it belongs in the main. There's no space on SB for it.

Another thing I considered is that Cursed scroll could be good against alot of the random jank you see at tourneys (Elves, Welder, Zombie Infestation, Fish, etc). Also, it just plain shuts down Confidant (which is nice if they've double hymned all your threats away ><).

Looking at the decklist at the beginning of this thread I think that trinisphere might be an option for this deck. Because it simply says vs many decks:
I play this and now you do nothing for 3 turns and i kill you with my seedrake/efreet.

Well, devoting too many slots for control artifacts just takes away from the pressure the deck can lay on the opponent. Trinisphere also hurts many cards in the deck, like Force of Will, Cloud of Faeries, Umezawa's Jitte, etc. It's all good if my opponent can't respond with an StP on the attacker, but if I don't have lots of lands, it's fully possible that I'll get locked under my own Trinisphere by a timely Wasteland. Basically, Trinisphere would have to replace Force of Will to not hurt the deck and I prefer FoW, as it's a free tempo-weapon.

Here's the list I'm testing if it helps

21 Mana
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
6 [7E] Island
2 [UL] Faerie Conclave
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [MR] Seat of Synod

20 Creatures
3 [FD] Tinket Mage
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
3 [HL] Sea Sprite
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake


19 Other Spells
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [A] Psionic Blast
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
1 [TE] Cursed Scroll


From the list on page one:
1) I cut Meluko's for Trinket Mages (fantastic)
2) Cut 2 Flying Men and a Jitte for 3 FoF (fantastic)
3) Cut 1 Blast for a Cursed Scroll (still testing. great vs. Gobs, sucks vs Combo)

EDIT: No board b/c I have yet to test the board well at all.

No maindeck Pithing Needle, Phantom?

Other than that, I dig it. Do you run into any problems with Sea Drakes putting you back on U mana, or not having any instant card-quality stuff (ie, Brainstorm)?

My build is presently identical to Phantom's, except -1 Trinket Mage, +1 Fact or Fiction. Oh, and it might indeed be worth testing Pithing Needle in the Scroll-slot. Of course it doesn't co-exist with Chalice, but hey, neither does Scroll. Then again, I want my 3rd Blast back!