[Deck] Pox

If you know that goblins (or thresh for that matter) are really big in your area, then you should probably gloss over the Nether Spirit/Chimeric Idol route.

There are much better creatures for dealing with aggro that Pox can use. Plague Spitter and Necroplasm absolutely wreck these decks. Necroplasm is essentially a walking, living Powder Keg, and it's recurable. It's also a halfway decent clock (hit for 9 damage over 3 turns). Plague Spitter wreck goblins rather easily. It kills all the x/1's and forces Goblins to hold back and build up. This allows you to just can Pox and wrath them anyway.

On a side note about win conditions: I've found that most of my games were won by The Rack damage alone. A good mid-game Pox will end up dealing 4 damage on average once you factor in The Rack.

The strength of this deck is that Pox can be cast on either turn 1 or turn 2 and literally ruin your opponent's game. The loss of potentially 4 cards on the first turn is huge. (creature + land + 2 cards in hand) Pox is specifically designed to take advantage of the low resource game by attrition. This, of course, doesn't leave very many viable kill conditions. The artifacts are necessary to circumvent that. The Rack is passive and cheap mana cost, while Chimeric Idol is cheap to activate (and hits for roughly 1/4th the opponent's life total after a Pox). Both are usefull, but not necessarily together.

I think we can all agree that the basic shell of Pox should look like this:

17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Pox

Additions should really be based on your expected metagame. Against Aggro, more board control elements such as Powder Keg, Necroplasm, Plague Spitter, Smother, Innocent Blood, etc, are good choices. Against control, Funeral Charm, Phyrexian Negator/Totem, The Rack are great. There is not going to be a singular Pox deck that fits into every metagame, so don't look for one.

Most metagames aren't strictly aggro or strictly control or strictly combo. You can expect to see a little of everything. Thus there is an ideal Pox list out there, a list that can deal with most any matchup, and can be tuned against it even more so post sideboard. That's the list we're trying to develop here.

Yes Pox is incredible, why aren't you running 4?

Also, please go through the last page as we already covered most of this, mainly.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

Also, this goes to everyone, but for the love of god, please up your land count.

Any deck running a curve with many 3cc cards MUST play 22 lands as a bare minimum.

Pox, Wasteland, Smallpox, Mox Diamond, Cabal Pit all require that you play more than the 22.

You're just asking to be mana screwed many games by cutting away lands.

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The Rack is awesome, but it is a win more card, as is Funeral Charm. Mainly, if you have your opponent low on cards and can wait a few turns for the Rack to kill them, that means they're also low on threats. In that position, any thing can win you the game. I think you're better off running stuff like Nether or Idol since they can chump block all day long too, or Phyr Totem since it can end the game in just two activations while serving as a mana source.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

Chalice for 1 shuts down a grand total of 4 cards (Cabal Therapy/Duress) in most builds.

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Almost every list runs both Funeral Charm and Dark Ritual. That's twelve. A great deal also run either The Rack or Cursed Scroll. That's sixteen. Any Stax, 5/3, Faerie Stompy, or board control deck is going to drop a Chalice at 2 as well, which is game over with no way to remove it.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

As for clearing away creatures, I would look at Necroplasm, or probably the best option of all either Infest (I sideboard 4) or Withering Wisps (just sub out swamps for snowcovered swamps), both of which are far faster than Powder Keg and hit all the goblins, not just some of them.

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Why would anyone run Powder Keg to kill creatures in a Pox deck? You run it to stop Aether Vial against Goblins, as that one card negates all land destruction, and in conjunction with Ringleader negates discard as well. And set at Zero, it kills Chalice of course, and completely ends Affinity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

The Rack is awesome, but it is a win more card, as is Funeral Charm. Mainly, if you have your opponent low on cards and can wait a few turns for the Rack to kill them, that means they're also low on threats. In that position, any thing can win you the game. I think you're better off running stuff like Nether or Idol since they can chump block all day long too, or Phyr Totem since it can end the game in just two activations while serving as a mana source.

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The question is how to structure the deck so that win conditions are optimal. Given that Small Pox and Pox make it virtually impossible for you to keep creatures in play why not go with the Mox Diamond acceleration and run manlands specifically Mishra's Factory? You can also run Crucible of Worlds which allows Wasteland recursion as well as bringing back your Factorys for the win. If you play Crucible and Mox Diamond and Phyrexian Totem you can have a potent clock. The mana base could be something like -

18 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mox Diamond
4 Phyrexian Totem
3 Crucible of Worlds

Totem doubles as mana and win condition as does Mishra's Factory. You essentially evade the drawback of losing lands with Crucible, Totem, and Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond also allows for a splash, but which color?

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Originally Posted by AnwarA101

Totem doubles as mana and win condition as does Mishra's Factory. You essentially evade the drawback of losing lands with Crucible, Totem, and Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond also allows for a splash, but which color?

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Obviously Blue for Standstill! Duh! No, seriously, probably White for StP and Disenchant and maybe Vindicate (but not likely).

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Originally Posted by AnwarA101

The question is how to structure the deck so that win conditions are optimal. Given that Small Pox and Pox make it virtually impossible for you to keep creatures in play why not go with the Mox Diamond acceleration and run manlands specifically Mishra's Factory? You can also run Crucible of Worlds which allows Wasteland recursion as well as bringing back your Factorys for the win. If you play Crucible and Mox Diamond and Phyrexian Totem you can have a potent clock. The mana base could be something like -

18 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mox Diamond
4 Phyrexian Totem
3 Crucible of Worlds

Totem doubles as mana and win condition as does Mishra's Factory. You essentially evade the drawback of losing lands with Crucible, Totem, and Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond also allows for a splash, but which color?

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This looks interesting, but I'm slightly leery of having two win conditions, both of which are vulnerable to Pithing Needle. Are you advocating taking out Nether Spirit for this? If you're running both Pox and Smallpox, it doesn't seem like Spirit will stay in play long enough to be useful as an attacker. It's a pity it doesn't have haste...and if you're running Factories, running Chimeric Idol isn't smart. Guardian Idol, perhaps? I'm just nervous about having so few kills.

That said...26 lands?! Yikes, especially in a deck without card drawing. Mana flood ftl? I wouldn't go above 24 even with the Moxen. Hell, my Astral Slide deck runs 26 lands and 8 of those are cycling lands you really don't want to play. 24 lands, 3-4 Mox, 4 Totem, maybe 2-3 Guardian Idol, and you have all the mana you could ever want.

As for the color issue - I really hate the idea, but it has merit, especially with Moxen. The only two colors that really bring anything useful are white (already discussed, I believe) and green. Green gives us Naturalize, Deed, and Regrowth. Deed is great as a way to sweep the board, but it will always eat your Moxen and can quite often eat your Crucibles, Totems, etc. Regrowth would be awesome - you could regrow a Pox and play it again, regrow a slain Totem, regrow an Infest or Hymn or Sinkhole or...well, you get the point. Powder Keg would be the safer Deed-esque option, but it is also vulnerable to Needle. There is also the aforementioned LftL draw engine.

One thing I'm worried about with running Pox and Smallpox is life loss. Your life total will drop like a rock since you have no lifegain but lots of ways to lose it. I don't want to drag the Zuran Orbs back out, but is there some other way around it?

EDIT: now that I think about it, the "three mana to cast or less" rule can probably be relaxed somewhat with all the acceleration in the deck. This leads me to wonder about potentially having Persecute as a sideboard card. It's nuts against mono-color decks and pretty good against most combo (play it for black with IGGY Pop, blue for Solidarity, red for Thunder Bluff, etc. It sucks hardcore against Salvager's Game, but then, so does Oppression...). Here's the list I think I might throw together:

14 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Mox Diamond

4 Dark Ritual
4 Funeral Charm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
3 Smother
4 Infest
3 Pox
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Phyrexian Totem

SB:
4 Duress
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Oppression
3 Powder Keg
2 Persecute

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

That said...26 lands?! Yikes, especially in a deck without card drawing. Mana flood ftl? I wouldn't go above 24 even with the Moxen. Hell, my Astral Slide deck runs 26 lands and 8 of those are cycling lands you really don't want to play. 24 lands, 3-4 Mox, 4 Totem, maybe 2-3 Guardian Idol, and you have all the mana you could ever want.

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The thing is that 26 lands is quite alot, but very few decks have 8 cards that destroy their own lands. I played 21 lands in my old Pox build and that deck ran 4 Dark Rituals. I don't think its that much of a stretch, perhaps 17 swamps is enough dropping you to 25 mana sources, but remember you are playing both Pox and Small Pox each of those cards will cost you a land at least.

The problem with stuff like Mishra's Factory is that eats up one of you land drops, unlike say Phyrexian Totem or Chimeric Idol, or Nether Spirit. Heck Nether Spirit is 0cc if you discard it to Small Pox or Pox.

You have to use your land drops to replay the Swamps you had to sac in order to be able to cast your disruption. You can't afford to use those land drops to play Factories bc you can't play most of your spells without 2 or 3 swamps in play.

Recurring Factories requires using your land drops on them while Nether Spirit recur for free. If it provided on color mana like Phyrexian Totem so you could play Pox with it, I would be fully on board, but as is, Factory seems slow.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

The problem with stuff like Mishra's Factory is that eats up one of you land drops, unlike say Phyrexian Totem or Chimeric Idol, or Nether Spirit. Heck Nether Spirit is 0cc if you discard it to Small Pox or Pox.

You have to use your land drops to replay the Swamps you had to sac in order to be able to cast your disruption. You can't afford to use those land drops to play Factories bc you can't play most of your spells without 2 or 3 swamps in play.

Recurring Factories requires using your land drops on them while Nether Spirit recur for free. If it provided on color mana like Phyrexian Totem so you could play Pox with it, I would be fully on board, but as is, Factory seems slow.

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Nether Spirit is the definition of slow. Its a creature that when it dies comes back during your next upkeep and then swings the turn after that? It also is about as slow as Factory, but at least Factory can pump other factories as well as being a land that can be pitched to Mox Diamond in the early game and in the mid game come back via Crucible. I'm not saying that Factory is the optimal card, because I'm not convinced that's true, but I don't think the problem with it, is that its slower than Nether Spirit.

It also should not eat up land drops if you are using Mox Diamond and it helps you cast Totem which will provide black mana along with 17-18 black sources should be enough to cast your mana intensive spells.

Keep pox mono black. Theres no reason to completely screw your mana for an off color card. Small Pox means you dont need Vindicate. Innocent Blood is better than Swords. Stay black.

Nether Spirit is the most efficient creature for Pox. Its the only one your going to see that comes back consistently after Pox. Sure its slow, but hes fuckin reliable man. I can't see how people would rather play a creature that dies to their own Pox, only to not be able to recur it. Thats just silly. Stick to Spirit and Factories if you play Crucible. That there should be more than enough. I think people forget the fact that after you Pox your opponent, they are at 13 life or less... so Nether Spirit doesn't have to swing 10 times.... He's not that slow.

@Anwar: Factory may pump other factories, but it really sucks to draw multiples as it is. Colorless mana FTL. Hopefully Diamond will fix that, but only testing will show.

Is the life loss of Skeletal Scrying too much to handle post Pox? I was considering it as a late game refueler as a 1-2 of.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Stay black.

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http://www.ishkur.com/sports/olympicmoments03.jpg
I have to agree with bane 100%

Nether spirit is a brilliant finisher in this deck and it has great synergy with pox so there should be no question about running it. However it should not be run alone as it is vulnerable to stp/graveyard hate/having two in the grave at once. You don't want to lose the game once you've established control just because your finisher is unusable and you happened to draw first.

The options for secondary finishers are the rack; negator totem; cursed scroll; mishra's factory and chimeric idol.

The rack is very good only if you're opponents hand is empty or near empty, in this situation, you could end the game with anything and I think a finisher should be useful even when you're not winning. The only advantage it has over the other finishers here is immunity to pithing needle.

Negator totem has the potential of a very fast clock and it can produce mana. My problems with it are threefold: once you have 3 mana you don't need any more in this deck; it can't always block and when it can you need to sacrifice stuff; once you've sacrificed your lands you can't attack with it. you also have no way to recur this.

Cursed scroll is hard to remove and can stop opposing creatures but like the negator, it needs mana to do this and it also isn't completely reliable, it is however a lot better than the rack.

Chimeric idol is slightly smaller than the negator totem and doesn't produce mana but it also doesn't require mana to activate. Unfortunately, like the negator, if it gets killed whilst blocking for example you can't recur it, and it has poor synergy with mishra's factory.

Mishra's factory is great because it can run off one other land, can be recurred with the crucible and pump other factorys. It is useful in the early game because it can be pitched to a mox or produce mana. The disadvantages are: vulnerability to wasteland and using up a land drop whilst not producing black mana and ofcourse lack of synergy with chimeric idol.

In conclusion, I would say that in the crucible/diamond build a factory is much better because it can so easily be recurred. Without the crucible however, chimeric idol is the best because it is the most useful when you aren't winning and very reliable when you are.


I also have some other suggestions for cards:
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale could be used in the sideboard against decks with aether vial to prevent them having more creatures than they have lands.

Pithing Needle could also be used against aether vial but it also has maindeck uses against fetchlands. Many decks run very few basics and if you shut down their fetches with needles it is easy to wastelock them.

This brings me to the idea of using fetches in the deck, they would thin out the excessive numbers of swamps slightly and allow you to draw more power in the late game. Especially with a crucible. The life loss from the fetches might be too much however so perhaps terramorphic expanse could be used instead (the lands come into play tapped but you want them for the deck-thinning not the mana)

I think pox is a really fun deck to play and smallpox could make it quite competive.

Has anyone tested Dimir Machination in this deck? There seems to be a fair amount of 3cc drops that could be searched for with it's transmutation ability:

-pox
-crucible
-nether spirit
-chimeric idol
-phyrexian totem
-e. plague
-perish
-infest
-oppression

I'm sure I missed some. I haven't tested this but i plan on it, my only concern is that Machination might be a bit too slow.

After quite some testing, I'm not really satisfied about Small Pox. Sure it can be devastating, but it's too symetrical. You can't really get the advantage out of it as you can with Pox. When I was thinking of cutting cards, Small Pox is almost always the one. I'm now testing without it.

About the kill condition, at the moment I'm running( I'm running a version without Crucible):

4 The Rack
2 Nether Spirit
4 Chimeric Idol

I think it's important I chose killconditions that 1) weren't affected by Pox and 2) Disruption of there own. For this reason I didn't choose Phyrexian Totem. It's only a fast clock next to being unnafected to Pox, but it doesn't do anything when you are loosing. I chose not to run Crucible, because although it's a strong card, I didn't have enough room in the deck. I try to squeeze some in, but having 2 without draw is too random for me. For this reason I don't play Factory. Also I would like to keep my non-basics to a minimum.

The Rack is one of the strongest cards of the deck. If you can slap 1 or 2 down it's definitly disruption. Opponents want to have multiple threads to dodge Pox, but the rack punish them for it. It is not a win more.

The other kills are disruption because they can block opponents creatures and live to tell about it.

About The Tabernacle, it can be played but again I'm not playing Crucible so it is hard to keep around( maybe I need to fit them in, but I don't know where.) As for fetchlands: do you mean the Fetchlands of Mirage? Bad River and Rocky Tar Pit? At Machination, I would play Infernal Tutor over it( because most of the time you're in topdeck anyway.) But I found them both suboptimal. The only reason I would splash another color would be to fight enchantments, not for Vindicate or Swords to Plowshare.

How would the Sideboard look like?
You could play Chalice( against combo) just board out Innocent Blood and play it for 1. Not sure, but I think Solidarity will have more problem with it than you.
Phyrexian Negator. With people boarding out removal and holding counters for Pox, this beast can punish them for it. Also nice against combo.
Gate to Phyrexia. Only one of 2 monoblack cards that can kill artifacts( I think.) Very good with Nether Spirit.
Than usual cards: Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Infest???, Dystopia???, Chains of Mephistoteles( or something)???

How is Smallpox symmetrical?

You run 0 creatures that you have to sac, they always lose a creature.

You also run Sinkhole, Wasteland and Pox. So, you lose one land. They lose their last and final land and are unable to cast anything afterwards.

It's the definition of synergy. The only reason it would feel symmetrical is if you're not running enough lands in your list to properly be able to recover from Smallpox and Pox, which unfortunately many of you are not.

I also don't think that The Rack counts as disruption. Phyrexian Totem lets you recover from Pox faster, just like running extra lands does. Thus in a way it's disruption, because it's what enables you to cast your disruption without hesitation.

I like Negator in the side and Chalice is an interesting idea. If you're running only 2 Nether Spirit or even 3, Gate to Phyrexia is useless a lot of the time. What artifacts do you fear so much? Equipment? Just bring in more creature destruction?

This is my current list ment for mostly control and random aggro.


19 x Swamp
4 x Wasteland

3 x Nether Spirit
3 x Contamination
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Duress
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Smallpox
4 x Pox
4 x Innocent Blood
3 x Chimeric Idol
4 x Sinkhole

SB:
3 x Cursed Scroll / Rack
4 x E. Plague
4 x Leyline of the Void
4 x Cabal Therapy

With no real card draw and no tutoring, I can't see how you can possibly ensure that you have a Nether Shadow everytime you have Contamination.

You only run 3 Nether Shadow, and Contamination is a dead draw if you don't have Nether Shadow to accompany it, even when you do, its dead when your opponent is black or is playing Affinity or 5/3 or something.

If you really want to lean heavier on the mana denial route, you could just as easily run Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistence (just off the top off my head to supplement all your land destruction).

Otherwise, the build looks perfect.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

With no real card draw and no tutoring, I can't see how you can possibly ensure that you have a Nether Shadow everytime you have Contamination.

You only run 3 Nether Shadow, and Contamination is a dead draw if you don't have Nether Shadow to accompany it, even when you do, its dead when your opponent is black or is playing Affinity or 5/3 or something.

If you really want to lean heavier on the mana denial route, you could just as easily run Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistence (just off the top off my head to supplement all your land destruction).

Otherwise, the build looks perfect.

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The build before this was:

- 3 contamination
+1 swamp
+2 Phyrexian Totem


thoughts...

I was never impressed with Contamination. Usually when I played it, it was an act of desperation to prevent combo deck X from going off in my face...in other words, Solidarity. There are very few decks that are absolutely devastated by it, and it slows you down by requiring you to sacrifice your Nether Spirit every turn.

As for Dimir Machinations: it's bad. The tutoring is good, sure, but...you usually can't cast what you went for that turn, and if you go for Pox or something like that, they know it's coming and can brace for impact. Also, if you're not transmuting it, it's pretty bad against stuff that isn't combo.