I can see that you're from Barcelona. Nice Engrish.:wink:
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I can see that you're from Barcelona. Nice Engrish.:wink:
Sorry...:frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Van_R
This is the version that I'm currently playing I was running serendibs up till very recently when I switched over to Serra Avenger's at first I thought the WW and can't be played till 4th turn and can't be pitched to FoW was all negatives but now that I actually tried them I actually like them.
I don't like duress maindeck cause I don't like fetching out a sea and having it wasted and having the set back unless i really need the colored i usually fetch for the island or plains if I can also don't like duress wiffs against goblins the most popular deck.
I've always run 61 cards since my keeper days of old when i wanted to fit in that extra silver bullet.
I had 2 counterspells but took one out to put maindeck needles going down to 2 stifle and I didn't like that couple times I needed a stifle to stifle grunt or confidant to not die or swing for the wing so i went back up to 3 stifle since its randomly good on grunts and confidant among other things so I was left with the 1 needle, might change that to a counterspell but I really hate wastelands from my keeper days so things look a little weird with those 2 one ofs.
I also run 3 jitte cause equipped jitte is win its just that good so why not maximize drawing with 3, you don't want 4 cause its legendary.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [UNH] Island
1 [LND] Plains (5)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [B] Scrubland
4 [A] Tundra
4 [R] Underground Sea
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [PS] Meddling Mage
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
2 [TSP] Serra Avenger
// Spells
4 [BD] Brainstorm
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [FD] Serum Visions
3 [SC] Stifle
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [7E] Counterspell
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [7E] Disenchant
SB: 3 [7E] Duress
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [6E] Serenity
Might actually try out maindeck duresses again but what to cut.
As far as the 3rd Jitte goes, I board a 3rd one and bring it in vs aggro matchups but if your going to run 61 cards, the 3rd Jitte is the obvious 61st card.
I like maindeck Duress for what it does for the deck. If you fear Wasteland, don't try to play turn 1 Duress. You still need the black source to cast Dark Confidant though, so keep that in mind. Against Goblins, they come out for Engineered Plagues anyways. I decided that it wasn't worth it to try and make game 1 vs Goblins any better because I would sacrifice too much to other matchups and I still wouldn't make it favorable. It's about 40/60 pre-board and 60/40 post-board and I don't mind that.
As far as Serendib vs Avenger go, they both have their pros and cons. I run Avenger because she owns.
As for the random 1 Pithing Needle, I'd rather run an extra Stifle maindeck, or in your case, another Counterspell. Needle can be dead in some matchups but Stifle has inherent synergy within the deck when it's not useful, so it's never really dead. Needle also doesn't pitch to FoW. Pithing Needle is a very strong card though, which is why I sideboard 3 of them.
Which are the pros and the cons??Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
Serendib is a 3/4. The difference of resistance in one does that lightnings, the mongeese don't affect him. Serendib can be pickef with fow...but the point of life that we lose, added to the points of life of the confidant make ideal the incursion of the third jitte.
Avenger is 3/3 fling wiht vigilance. Can't be picket with fow, cost WW and can't be played till 4th turn.
Slightly more?
Serendib Efreet
Pros: 4 toughness, pitchable to FoW, single blue in the casting cost.
Cons: 1 damage per upkeep, 3 mana casting cost.
Serra Avenger
Pros: Vigilance, 2 mana casting cost.
Cons: Double white in the casting cost, can't be played until turn 4.
Examining them further is necessary to understand their fundamental roles in the deck.
Serendib Efreet does 1 damage per upkeep, so more often than not he's going on the agressive... he doesn't sit back to block. The 1 damage per upkeep in itself isn't too bad, but Confidant kinda makes me not want any more lifeloss.
Serra Avenger cannot come down until turn 4 but Serendib cannot come down until turn 3 anyway. The turn that it can come into play is highly irrelevant in this deck... and you would agree if you'd play this deck at least a handful of times. The double white cost is the biggest drawback, although I can usually manage. Costing 2 mana instead of 3 can be a good thing sometimes. It doesn't pitch to FoW, but it can block Goblin Piledriver. It lacks 1 point of toughness, though most removal besides Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt will either kill both Serendib and Avenger, or neither, so I'm not too worried. Mother of Runes or countermagic can stop a Bolt if necessary. Vigilance is extremely impressive and the whole reason why I run Avenger.
if its soo sweet than why didn't you run it in the last d4d?
Because Serra Aevenger wasn't legal for the D4D. It had been released a few days prior and wasn't legal until Oct 20th. The tournament was on the 7th and 8th. I decided to run Azorius Guildmage rather than Serendib Efreet and it did well for me both days. Azorius Guildmage is still a good creature in this deck, I just like the Avenger a bit more. If ever there were extra spots available, I'd definitely fit some Guildmages into those slots.
Might try 2 counter and remove the maindeck needle but then I need to find board space for the 3rd needle. I like to have 3 needles against goblins and decks with wastelands.
I been liking serra avengers ever since I made the switch, there were a few cases where they got lightning bolted but for the most part they work out a little bit better then dibs since dibs damage adds up with confidant damage as well. especially if you don't get a jitte. Only thing was I had pimp arabian nights dibs.
How is 17 land working? I'm running 18 land 17 just seems like one too low.
17 Lands doing fine for me.
Also I board out 1 Land in the Mirror and against NQG, without having problems. Just try it, how it works out for you.
I think that a powerful creature like serendib is necessary, overcoat against aggro deck's(rg beats, fairie stompy...). It is true that the points of damage caused by the serendib, added to that of the confidant can be considerable, because of it, I believe that the incursion of two dibs would be more suitably.(like Fleury Laurent, starcitygames: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=19316
17 beast, with 4 meddeling, 4 cnfidant, 3 jotun, 2 serendib, 2 avenger and 2 mom it's the suitable quantity...
It's only an idea... that has not been proved.
Yes, but I can say that his english is like his spanish XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Van_R
G'day, all.
I've been playing this deck for a good long time now. Slightly tweaked for the meta in my area, but still, the same overall concept.
In regards to the Avenger vs. Serendib arguements. I'm going to have to go with Avenger. The first and foremost reason = Vigilent Jitte carrier. When this happens, the game might as well just start over. The thing with this deck, is that you have mother of runes. So, burn shouldn't be that large of an issue on your avenger. I mean, unless they've burnt every threat you've dropped. Mother is a house, and if Avenger gets a Jitte with an active mother, you effectively have a permanent 7/7. It's rather ridiculous.
I still can't find a reason to remove Ninja from the deck. Ninja of the deep hours just works well with the other creatures in this deck. You can swap with an avenger to almost gain the card. You can swap out confidant if you're getting low on life. You can swap out grunt to keep it alive, let your yard refill, and cast it again. I don't know if anyone has tested the deck with this in there, but it's uses are massive. It's also another card to pitch for Force early. Which in most cases, is a lot better to pitch than the other blue card in your hand (whether it be daze/stifle/mage).
Anyway. I haven't read all the pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been covered, but. It's a reasonable idea.
Though at the last tournament I played at, I found the deck that can just wreck this one. Affinity seemed to just plow over me. Too fast. And really, aside from getting a bomb in game two, that will answer their entire board, you just lose. Or so it seemed for me. I had good hands too. And then, I die, with absolutely nothing I can do.
I'm also finding it hard to believe that people think this deck has a hard game against goblins. In the last 4 tournaments I've played in, and in testing, I haven't lost a match to goblins in 12 tries now. 12 matches, I'm 12-0. You can basically tell them before the game starts that they'll win game one. And if they don't, there is no chance they can beat you.
+4 plague, +2 needle, +1 jitte, -3 serum vis, -3 duress, -1 ninja (in my case).
I don't see how if you keep any hand that has any threat, you can lose. I mean, it's just ridiuclous how badly they have to deal with plague against this deck. There are some decks that run plague that goblins can still plow through, however. This deck is not one of them. When I arrive at a tournament, I want to play goblins, rounds 1-x, simply because I do not see how this deck can lose to them. Especially if they don't know you're going to stifle their land drops, laughing that they lose a life, and pass their turn with no plays on no land.
And, for the record, 1st turn Duress, 2nd turn Meddling Mage, is the biggest slap in the face to any deck other than aggro I've ever seen. God they just get soooo pissed when they see that happen.
how does this deck seem to do against angel stompy? from the looks of it, it doesn't seem like the match-up is in fish's favor...what about farie stompy?..just wondering...ohh yea and I keep hearing about how this deck doesn't really have any problems with r/g beats? I play r/g beats and Ive never lost to a fish/landstill deck in my entire life...trol + rancor and or jitte = gg
The explosives are not very effective against r/g beats. The only thing that us can useful is perish(against 24-26 beats or more...uff :S)or the needles to aszeta and sofi.
I believe that this deck has many possibilities in legacy but his beats are too weak. Sincerely I think that rg beats is not a favorable match.
I've found Affinity to be an easy matchup in my experience and I would consider it favorable. They empty their hand fast with few ways to refill and most of what they drop isn't extremely amazing on it's own. Ornithopter, for example, is crap on its own. As long as you keep Ravager, Atog, and Cranial Plating off the table, you won't have too many problems. That's not really too hard considering the deck has Meddling Mage, Countermagic, StP/Duress, Pithing Needles in the board, and Serenity's in the board. Myr Enforcer can sometimes be a problem but Grunt can trade with him. Mother of Runes is, more or less, worthless in this matchup and I usually board them out. Serenity is cruel and unusual punishment. I also board in the 3rd Jitte... I've wrecked Affinity everytime I've played it and got Jitte active. They sometimes get very explosive starts and win off of that but that doesn't usually happen. This matchup is at least 60/40 preboard and only gets better postboard. You say the Goblins matchup is easy but you think Affinity is hard... we have totally opposite assesments.
Angel Stompy is a very hard matchup for this deck. I'm not sure I'd necessarily say it's unfavorable, but it's not better than 50/50. Post board it gets a little better when bringing in the 3rd Jitte and possibly Serenity, Engineered Explosives, and/or Pithing Needle. It's still a difficult match though. I've beaten Angel Stompy before but I've also lost to it. At the D4D, I played both 3c Angel Stompy and Mono White Angel Stompy. I went 2-0 vs 3 AS and 2-1 vs Mono White AS. On MWS, I win some and I lose some.
I think Faerie Stompy is a tad easier. They are more explosive but they are also much less consistent. An early game StP can really wreck them sometimes and so can Daze. They have mana consistency issues and they tend to empty their hand very fast. The biggest problems this deck has against Faerie Stompy is the equipment and Chalice. Engineered Explosives and Serenity come in and usually do a good job at keeping them off the table, although that's not always the case. This matchup is probably around 50/50 as well, at least preboard, but I have found it easier than Angel Stompy by a little bit. Post board, the matchup obviously gets a little better, though I'm not sure if it's favorable or not. I haven't done a ton of testing vs Faerie Stompy... but then again, Faerie Stompy isn't a very popular deck.
As far as G/R Beats goes, I usually win this one way more often than I lose to it. 2/2's and 3/3's aren't bad but they tend to run out of gas easily. Duress is great here, since it draws out their burn/removal, and Mother of Runes makes this matchup much easier. Unless they can nail me really bad early on, I don't usually lose this matchup. Obviously their Jitte will be one of the main focuses for my countermagic, supposing I draw any. The 3rd Jitte comes in game 2 and makes it easier too... especially since I have a draw engine and cantrip to ensure that I see mine first/more often. Sometimes I board in Perish or Engineered Explosives, depending on their build. Either way, I've never had serious problems with this matchup. Maybe the UWb Fish players you played against either sucked with the deck or didn't have it tuned very well to handle aggro.
I don't really think my beats are that weak either. Avenger is a 3/3 and Grunt is a 4/4, while Meddling Mage and Dark Confidant are pretty good aggro when Mother of Runes is on the table. I may not run as much muscle as Threshold does but my beats are around the same size as those found in Angel Stompy (aside from Exalted) and G/R Beats.
Either way though, how popular are those decks? I really don't expect to see a whole lot of those matchups at a large tournament. I'd rather have worse randomness matchups than worse Tier 1 matchups anyway. I saw Angel Stompy a total of 2 times at the 2-day D4D (and the 3c AS is alot less aggressive), I saw 0 Faerie Stompy (I think there was only 1 Faerie Stompy deck at the whole thing), and 0 G/R beats (not sure how many G/R Beats were played, if any). This is what the metagame will typically look like at most big events, at least in the U.S.
Alright. Maybe I was just unlucky as hell, to see turn one thopter + mantle, and turn two, I saw thoughtcast, and turn 3 brought down ravager and plating, then atog, on turn 4, and I was dead due to fling on turn 5. There were just too many threats fast for me to ever have a chance of dealing with them all. Oh well. As per usual, I dominated everyone else around.
Perhaps we just play the deck a little differently, to cater to the matchups at hand, as you said. I find goblins a joke with this deck, every time. Stifle is just too much against goblins. They empty their hand, you stifle ringleader, and then they have nothing left. And you can still be in a dominant place. Especially with a well placed mage on turn 3 or 4.
I also have had no trouble with the R/G beats I've faced with this deck. The thing is, is that jitte will never be a factor, since we maindeck them as well, so it's basically a 2 colorless "destroy target jitte" in our case, and aside from that, Avenger is a house. 3/3 vigilent flier will definitely cause some problems for r/g beats, Especially once a mother gets online. Then again, whoever gets the better hand, should win out. Fish's job, is to answer all its problems in the first 4-5 turns, then start pounding face and gaining card advantage. Once things get working, it's tough to shut it down.
I find affinity to be highly draw dependent, sometimes they just get the nuts your dead draw and there really isn't much you can do about it unless you have just the right hand to deal with it. Other times though affinity is very beatable
I haven't seen angel stompy or faerie stompy at my local shop. I haven't been to a big tourney in awhile tho and online testing is highly random.
I do see alot of goblins though which I have a good mach up against.
2 counter seems good so far but only 2 needle in the board is meh. needle is so good against goblins. big question is how to fit in another needle in the board :(
current board
2 pithing needle (goblins mostly)
2 disenchant (enchantments/artifacts)
3 duress (combo)
2 engineered explosives (aggro)
4 engineered plague (goblins)
2 serenity (affinity)
You can drop a Disenchant for a 3rd Needle. Many times, Pithing Needle to artifacts/enchantments like Engineered Plague is to Goblins... in that, it does the job and keeps on doing it rather than being just a 1 time effect like Tivadar's Crusade.
Of course Needle doesn't work against every artifact/enchantment, but 2 Serenity's in the board is enough for them already. I don't even run Disenchants in my sideboard.
only problem about serenity is it blows up my jitte if I have one thats why I had disenchants. I primarily bring in Serenity against affinity in which case it wipes their board so I don't care if I had to blow up my Jitte. Considering trying 3 needle 4 duress in the board removing the 2 disenchant but they are nice to have and I usually board out 3 stifle for duress assuming I am on the draw against combo or control.