[New Card Discussion] Extirpate

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No, this is why the deck plays 4 Cabal Therapy and 4 Duress. And the reason it doesnt scoop to Tormod's Crypt or Swords to Plowshares. The deck will be fine, Loam has much more to worry about.

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But that hate will add up. Sal Game can deal with some of these, but if a deck brings in, say, 4 of these + 4 Crypts, its almost certain to loose. Luckily, I don't think this card is as OMG broken as some people. It dosen't do much to Goblins or Solidarity, and its not all that hard to play around.

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Shit now Ill need to play Pull from Eternity in my loam sideboards..

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Brilliant. That stops Crypts too.

If a deck plays 4 of this and four Crypt you hope you don't face them in the first round, then wave from the winner's bracket. A deck running 4 Pillar, and 4 Chalice is going to be tough for Salvagers as well. The thing is, few expect to win tournaments with that type of sideboard. Goblins is the only deck that can even try, and hope to win. But then they lose to Angel Stompy-types and the mirror. Plus, a deck running these cards has a most four turns to draw and play them.

To be honest the Split Second desn't matter much versus Salvagers. It's no worse of a card than Crypt or Plow, it just means that LEDs have to be treated with the same care as your Salvagers.

The only deck I can see running discard, artifact removal (Vindicate), and this is possibly Deadguy. There is no way it is going to weaken it's other matchups to increase it's percentages against two or three already favorable matchups. Those being IGGy and Golden Grahams. RGBSA can also run it, and to be honest I hope they don't decide to. Combo is rough for them, and this really shines against most forms of it. I am not familiar with their sideboard though, and don't know if they have room for more than Pillar.

I think this card is strong because of it's color. This card is meant to be run along side duress, cabal therapy and even hymn to torach. By playing it along side discard it is very easy to get cards into their graveyard turning it into a cranial extraction.

I don't think the card is overpowered, but it is powerful. Very seldom are disruption cards overpowered. Normally they are used to keep the power level of a format in check by negating other powerful cards which this does. It is a good tool against combo, although far from making it a guranteed win. Even though it has split second, cards can still deal with it such as duress.

Against iggy pop it is obviously the strongest, but does not make it unwinnable. They can still do tricks like xantid swarm and orim's chant, as long as you haven;t made them discard key cards.

Against solidarity I think it is ok. You can hit cunning wishes if you made them discard one, hitting flash of insight could be pretty nice too. Or just hitting something like reset or meditate can be quite good since even if they wish for it back, solidarity can have a hard time going off with no other meditates or resets in the deck.

Against threshold I would say this is midly useful and probably would not side it in. It does almsot nothing to stop their threshold, at best you could use it as a combat trick to shrink their guys for one turn and kill them with a weenie, but that is pretty rare that they have exactly 7 cards in the yard and no way to put another in. Making them discard a goose or something and then hitting that is pretty nice, but probably too situational to run.

Against survival decks, it is usefull. You can make them discard or destroy a survival, then use this on it, ensuring they cannot witness it back or ever draw another one, and even hitting just squee, genesis, anger or a what witness is targeting at worst can be still be useful.

What I don't like about the card is how it will usually be card disadvantage for you, unless they have another copy in hand, then that is pretty sweet. I think this card would be good in the sideboard, probably not quite good enough for the main board.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Ok so anyone who wants to sell me a playset for 20 bucks Im all about that. Cranial went for 20-25 on release and it has 4 times the mana cost + it can be countered.

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And how much is it now that it is out of type 2? I can pick a set up for less than 20 at most.

Anyone who thinks this'll go for less than 10's a few bricks short of a load. This card can and will (Or should) see play in close to every format. Ichorid's got a new worst enemy in Vintage and possibly Extended (Does anyone play Ichorid in Extended anymore?), and Firemane as major kill condition in Standard just took a serious hit.

It does suck in draft, as far as I can imagine. And I can't see it being very useful in, like, Highlander. Beyond that, it's a house.

anyway, with planar chaos Black Control is back..

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Extirpate (Duress + Extirpate. BOOOOOOOOOOOOM)
3 Damnation
4 The Rack
etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Anyone who thinks this'll go for less than 10's a few bricks short of a load. This card can and will (Or should) see play in close to every format. Ichorid's got a new worst enemy in Vintage and possibly Extended (Does anyone play Ichorid in Extended anymore?), and Firemane as major kill condition in Standard just took a serious hit.

It does suck in draft, as far as I can imagine. And I can't see it being very useful in, like, Highlander. Beyond that, it's a house.

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The only signifigant factors to price after the first 2 weeks are going to be its effects on Standard, Block, and Extended. I'm not sure how good it'll be in those formats, but keep in mind that it's playability in Vintage or Legacy is virtually a non-factor.

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3 Extirpate (Duress + Extirpate. BOOOOOOOOOOOOM)

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The boom representing the new-found ease of finding cards you really want to side out against Goblins.

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The boom representing the new-found ease of finding cards you really want to side out against Goblins.

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Right. This is a sideboard card. A damned good one, but I really hope people play me with it in the main before they realize that it doesn't do a damned thing to board position.

I'd play 2x this card. Situational, random and rarely useless.

to cut ALL Goblin Piledervers with B at more-than-instant-speed is broken, you just need to break the first manually (or just making him discard it by Cabal Therapy!!!! or Hymns, etc. etc.)

Turn 1:
Swamp
Dark Ritual
Cabal Therapy: Goblin Piledriver/Goblin Warchief
Extirpate

still useless vs goblin?

in a CONTROL deck which plays Black I would run Extirpate for sure. Not 4 MD but 2, yes.

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Originally Posted by Poron

I'd play 2x this card. Situational, random and rarely useless.

to cut ALL Goblin Piledervers with B at more-than-instant-speed is broken, you just need to break the first manually (or just making him discard it by Cabal Therapy!!!! or Hymns, etc. etc.)

Turn 1:
Swamp
Dark Ritual
Cabal Therapy: Goblin Piledriver/Goblin Warchief
Extirpate

still useless vs goblin?

in a CONTROL deck which plays Black I would run Extirpate for sure. Not 4 MD but 2, yes.

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How did you know turn 1 that they're playing Goblins?

I think that turn 1 not knowing what my opponent is playing, and not being able to do anything because Therapy is blind and Extirpate is crippled is fairly useless, yes. I would much rather have a proactive card in such a deck.

in every game which is not game 1 obviously, or if you prefer...

Swamp
Ritual
Duress (seen..)
Therapy
Extirpate

Or again:
Swamp
Ritual
Hymn------> oh! you play goblin? that Warchief you discarded is very nice!
Extirpate.

Come on, I'm not saying this card will change meta games on its own but the only deck that comes up to my mind which is not hurted by Extirpate is burn...
each other deck can cry for this card..

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Originally Posted by Poron

Swamp
Ritual
Duress (seen..)
Therapy
Extirpate

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That's the worst possible start against Goblins.

Ritual (-1 card)
Duress (-2 cards, no target)
Therapy (Warchief/Ringleader unless they have Lackey)
Extirpate (-3 cards, they have all Warchiefs/Ringleader RFG from library)

After that you are left with a Swamp in play and 2 handcards against a Goblin deck with a full hand. Even if these 2 cards are Dark Ritual and Engineered Plague, you will still lose.

yes that was a bad example.

Not having played with the card yet, I'd hazard a guess that this card is situational, but rarely dead, against goblins. It is definitely a reactive card, and how you use it depends on your defensive situation:

If you Persecute -> Extirpate Ringleader
If you Infest -> Extirpate Warchief (or, alternatively, Lackey or Ringleader)
If you have a creature defense -> Extirpate Gempalm Incinerator (which will likely already be in the bin anyway) or maybe SGC

Frankly, Extirpating Matron, Warchief, Ringleader, Lackey, or hitting a game-1-turn-1-Duressed Vial are probably all worth burning a card and {B}. That's a fair number of targets, I'd say.

On the other hand, I think you would rarely Extirpate for Piledriver. Piledriver isn't much of a threat without his friends Warchief and Lackey.

EDIT: I just had an odd idea - after you whiff with your first Duress, you could Extirpate the rest of your Duresses from your deck, improving your top-decks for the rest of the game. Is it genius or stupidity? (The argument that you are making your top-decks worse by including Extirpate in the first place has yet to be substantiated, so be reasonable.)

I think I'll proxy this up in Deadguy and see how it goes against Goblins. I'll report my findings later.

As soon as I saw this card, I thought how great it will be for my Braids deck.

I thought of it like this...I can remove 3 more permanents from their deck, most of the time being non-basic lands with 1 single card. I can remove win conditions against Threshold and other decks like Landstill, or Duress a FoW and never have anything else to worry about. My deck hates StP and thus I could remove StP and never fear a Mishra's Factory from being removed.

At that point, I thought about how bad it would be if someone used it against me. 10 total win conditions, them being 3 different win conditions. Losing win conditions is bad, and thus that is why I will run it. I think I'll end up cutting a Mishra's in support of a 4th win condition as a land now.

I don't see how I can fit them in the main, but I think they would deffinately be a 3 of in the SB.

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Originally Posted by Poron

in every game which is not game 1 obviously, or if you prefer...

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So how does that further its strength MD?

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Come on, I'm not saying this card will change meta games on its own but the only deck that comes up to my mind which is not hurted by Extirpate is burn...
each other deck can cry for this card..

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Well every deck is hurt by Zap, does that make it worth playing?

The question isn't who is theoretically hurt by this card, the question is against which decks is it actually profitable?

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Frankly, Extirpating Matron, Warchief, Ringleader, Lackey, or hitting a game-1-turn-1-Duressed Vial are probably all worth burning a card and {B}. That's a fair number of targets, I'd say.

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How likely are those situations, and how do they advance you to winning the game? They don't effect their board and only possibly effect their hand.

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Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges

It might see a few MD slots in some decks, but the hype is palpable bull shit.The decks it's actually great against are only a handful, it does very little to Goblins, and most importantly it does nothing on its own against 90% of the decks in the field.

What are you going to cut from a black deck to run this MD? Cutting discard or LD only makes this card weaker. Replacing threats further nerfs your ability to actually seal the game...

But by all means, play suboptimal cards MD if it floats your boat.

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QFT. Im much more excited for the Red Knight because it could have a real impact on the card pool as a solid MD candidate. Board worthy disruption is nice but certainly not worthy of this much fanfare.

Looks like the fact that this cards does not effect board immediately has caught on. This leaves 2 choice in use of the card.

1. SB card against specific GY dependent decks - IGGY, Salvagers Game, random reanimation, Roam and many others. In this case, the use of the card will depend on your meta and the card will not be more than a good SB card.

2. Maindeck in some decks. Mono black control, preferably pox, comes to mind. Pox, due to its nature as a deck that puts large amount of card in graveyard, will be able to abuse the card. UWB fish might be able to use this card since the deck is all about cheap, efficient disruption.

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Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges

How likely are those situations, and how do they advance you to winning the game? They don't effect their board and only possibly effect their hand.

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Couldn't the same thing be said of Haunting Echoes and Cranial Extraction? They don't affect the board and only possibly effect your opponent's hand. Neither of these cards see much play in Legacy, but did have an impact on Extended and Standard. Maybe a cheaper, nearly uncounterable version of the two will find a home in Legacy. I think I'd like to test it in Duck Hunt and see if it's only worth having in the board.

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Originally Posted by URABAHN

Couldn't the same thing be said of Haunting Echoes and Cranial Extraction? They don't affect the board and only possibly effect your opponent's hand. Neither of these cards see much play in Legacy, but did have an impact on Extended and Standard. Maybe a cheaper, nearly uncounterable version of the two will find a home in Legacy. I think I'd like to test it in Duck Hunt and see if it's only worth having in the board.

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Not on the Echoes. The Echoes effectively mill your opponent's deck and reduce their library into nothing but a bunch of lands. It does win the game by itself in many situations.

Extraction and Extirpate may share the function, but the latter requires backup, making it into 2 for ??? card. ??? can be 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 but does it justify space in a deck? In a normal deck, Duress or Therapy will work better, without a doubt.