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I agree with you man
I really liked confidant but i guess there is no need for him if your not using the :0: beaters (just a faster way to get Doran). Also i dont like oblivion ring or deed (specially with teeg) is there somthing else that can be in that slot. Please post what your SB is.
So here is the list I plan on testing first. I have taken all of the feedback and suggestions everyone has had and built this:
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Nimble Mongoose
4 x Dark Confidant
3 x Doran, the Siege Tower
3 x Spectral Lynx
1 x Treefolk Harbinger
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Duress
4 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Umezawa’s Jitte
3 x Vindicate
2 x Gastly Demise
1 x Krosan Grip
4 x Bayou
4 x Scrubland
2 x Savannah
4 x Windswept Heath
2 x Bloodstained Mire
2 x Swamp
1 x Forest
1 x Volrath’s Stronghold
Side Board:
4 x Extirpate
4 x Engineered Plague
3 x Withered Wretch
2 x Krosan Grip
2 x Chains of Mephistopheles
How has getting to threshold been treating you? I would think that skyshroud elite would be able to put more pressure on in the early game, what with out the cantrips. Likewise for Demise.
Between the Fetch lands, Discard Spells, and stuff getting countered it has not been to difficult getting threshold.
I believe if your mongeese are toting a jitte that your breaking some rules lol
This is crazy not to play treefolk harbinger*4. It's your serum visions and your nimble mongoose at the same time. And it can even be more:
- it answers a first turn lackey efficiently
- it can fetch your library for an universal removal (Rootgrapple or Nameless Inversion or Crib Swap)
- it fixes color-base
The fetch trigger is never useless. Let's do it algorithm:
If (you are developing yourself) {
...If (you need mana) {
......Fetch for a land;
...} else if (you need beaters) {
......Fetch for your favorite beater: Doran;
...} else {
......Play clever (it happens that I fetch for a second Doran, just to be removal proof);
...}
} else if (you need a solution) {
...Fetch the most adapted one;
} else {
...Play clever;
}
With top it's even better as you can draw instantly the card you've fetched for and you can decide to fetch or not to, that is to say to shuffle or not to. You can even find nothing and just shuffle in case that you are looking for a specific card (STP to save your life against burn for instance, or jitte against gob).
@Nastynate, your deck looks very insteresting but it's in a completely different approach. By the way, I would still play 1 basic forest, in order to be able to steel some games aven against magus of the moon thanks to your green beaters starting with tarmogoyf. I'm not sure you need that many discard outlets (rootmaze is also a very good 1st turn against combo) and I would maybe complete the slots to 4 for every creature. I'm not convinced by your SB neither, in particular kataki.
The Harbinger is nice and I may find a spot for a 2nd one. He puts the card on top of your libary, I really don't see myself needing more than 2 harbingers. I have Fetch lands to get the mana I need and Bob will draw get me most of the cards I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maveric78f
I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have (sorry bout that), so I'll just make this parting response.Quote:
@Nastynate, your deck looks very insteresting but it's in a completely different approach. By the way, I would still play 1 basic forest, in order to be able to steel some games aven against magus of the moon thanks to your green beaters starting with tarmogoyf. I'm not sure you need that many discard outlets (rootmaze is also a very good 1st turn against combo) and I would maybe complete the slots to 4 for every creature. I'm not convinced by your SB neither, in particular kataki.
My deck only bears superficial similarity to the OP's deck (colors and a few common no-brainers). A basic land or two should definitely be in there, so I don't lose strait-up to magus of the moon. I have also been pleased with 10 discard spells and 14 creatures. Kataki sux, except that it dismantles affinity, one of the few aggro decks still present in the metagame, and this deck gets whupped badly by ravager affinity.
Feel free to PM me any side-board suggestions you might have.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Hi.
First of all, please excuse my terrible English :-).
This is my first Thread here at the Source an I really like this forum. I found 100 interresting and unortodox ideas in deckbuilding and inspiration.
I want to introduce/describe my actual Deck. I really loved to play 'The Rock' in old Extendet and tried to play it with some changes in Legacy. White was splashed by many players for Swords and Hierarch and so did I.
My actual idea was to play Glittering Wish, because in the constellation GBw are many mighty cards that would justify it... in my opinion.
The possibility to play Pernicious Deed out of the Sideboard was really temptingly.
Unfortunately I had a finishing Problem. The old school choices as Baloth, Spiritmonger and so are cool, but slow (and I ever denied to play Gofys. Everybody in the format should play Gofy, but I simply hate this card :tongue: ... and they are against all ideals of the Rock.dec :laugh: ).
But then I found Doran, the Siege Tower and he was amazing in a three color Deck. A fried of mine said I sould try Treefolk Harbinger in combination and as I tested it, I liked him more and more.
He stabilise the three colour mana base and searches for the treefolk legend... and he makes evil beatdown in combination.
Ok, first of all, my actual build:
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Volrath's Stronghold
6 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Treefolk Harbinger
2 Doran, the siege tower
3 Ohran Viper
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Eternal Witness
4 Glittering Wish
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
Manabase:
22 Lands seemed the right number. The deck needs a lot of mana when you try to use the wish. 2 Strongholds because in certain matchups you want one for recurrsion, but they are legendary. 3 seemed to much for me and it pissed me on, if I drawed more than one.
4 Birds of Paradise
On the first look you will say: "Why play 4 Birds? The Deck needs not such an acceleration. They not confit with the deed. Why not play Tribe-Elders?"
Right. But they make mana for free and are useful in every part of the play. First the speed you up, give more possibilities in the early game (Harbirbinger and Discard/Removal without timeloss) and stabilise your play. Later they are atractive targets for Therapy-flashbacks, swings for 1 (with Doran) or blocks the Gofy.
4 Treefolk Harbringer
4 of them? Yes. They are great. Mention that they search lands or our Doran. A goldfish play could be: Land/Harbinger (search for Harbinger), next Turn Land/Harbinger (search for Doran), next Turn Land, Doran, swing for 6, next Turn swing for 11... while you play Discard and Removal. I love this card.
Although he is 0/3 for 1 Mana and blocks the evil Lackey.
2 Doran, the siege tower
A big, ugly beater. He makes your opponent confused, swings for 5, blocks (and kills) nearly everything. The only reason I don't play the full playset is that he is a legend. But he can be tutored by our Harbringers. 3 Mana, the not-trampeling Phyrexian Negator in our Deck without Drawback. UGW should be no problem to carst because our massive mana-fix.
3 Ohran Viper
Why the viper? First I played with -the really good- Wall of Blossoms but now we've got an 0/3 Lackey blocker for 1 Mana and the wall seemed in combination with Doran as too defensive (can't attack). I would marry the wall if she was no defender and could swing for 4... I thougt about Dark Confidant, but i decidet to play the UNDERPLAYED Viper.
Viper draws cards AND kills Gofy, Psychatog, Shades and some more Folks. Of course she can be bolted, swordet (or whatever), but the same is true for the confident. The Viper attacks for 3 with Doran, blocks good and can be played 2 Turn with Birds.
3 Loxodon Hierarch
He is so good. Gives live, beats and makes tricks. 3 main, 1 SB.
4 Eternal Witness
Yes, 4 of them. She is the queen of the deck. I don't play Living Wish, so she can't be tutored and she is really, really important, so I decidet to play the full playset.
4 Glittering Wish
Searching for Finishers (Teneb, the harvester), tools (Vindicate) and funstuff (Pernicious Deed :cool: ), maybe 3 are more effective, but I want to have the wish in every game.
4 Swords to Plowshares
Some people say, the best removal in our Format... I agree
3 Duress + 4 Cabal Therapy
"Rock Standart" and an effictive discard-engine. Maybe the new Thoughtseize would be a better choice, but in my opinion the card is hipped a bit too much.
3 Pernicious Deed
The Allrounder. 3 main, 1 for the Wish.
Lets take a look to the sideboard (I try a lot and this might be not the final version):
1 Teneb, the Harvester --- Finisher. Evasion and perfect fitting abillity
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Crime / Punishment --- another Deed effect. Really good vs. Warren-Tokkens
1 Vindicate
1 Castigate
2 Gaddock Teek --- maybe more?
1 Duress
3 Extirpate
2 Haunting Echoes
It was important for me to strengh my discard post Board vs. Combo and Aggrocontrol. So I test the Haunting Echoes at present as an 'alternative kill'.
I hope you can give me a lot of tipps, inspiration and critic for my deck.
Thanks.
First of All, Welcome to the Source!
This deck, like the other 3 Threads that are trying to abuse Doran looks solid.
You need to take your own advice and play Tarmogoyf, like him or not he is an amazing creature. You are going to be hearing this from a lot of people when they reply to this thread. I would run Thoughtseize over duress. If I were to play this deck I would do the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu
-3 Ohran Viper
-1 Treefolk Harbinger
-1 Eternal Witness
-3 Duress
-1 Glittering Wish
+4 Tarmogoyf
+4 Thoughtseize
+1 Doran
Check out these other thread to see what other decks are running Doran, maybe they will give you some more ideas.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7279
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7139
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7122
Yeah 200 Posts!!
Just a couple observations.
You have no way of fetching out the basic Swamp. I think you either want to cut it for the 4th Bayou, or reconfigure your fetchlands so that you can fetch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu
Like Sacearuse said, you should run Tarmogoyf. I'd cut Vipers and either a Witness or a Harbinger for a playset of Goyfs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu
Duress should be Thoughtseize, no question. It's so much better, and the life loss really won't hurt you. I'd probably even cut the 4th Therapy for the 4th Thoughtseize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu
I think Harmonic Sliver and Vindicate are redundant, so I'd cut the Sliver. Same with Deed and Crime/Punishment. I'd probably drop the Deed. Also, with such an emphasis on Doran, I'd think you'd want to run one in the board to Wish for. Extirpate and Haunting Echoes seem redundant, so you might want to think about replacing one or the other (probably Echoes).Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu
I play something similar to this in Extended, concentrating on cost efficient power/toughness creatures (Doran and Goyf) backed up with cost efficient utility creatures (Confidant and Teeg) discard (Thought Seize and Cabal Therapy) general removal (Vindicate, Small Pox and Umezawa's Jitte) and Glittering Wish to pull the deck together. I often find that MD Pernicious Deed is counter productive to what the deck wants to achieve, which is getting the more cost efficient creatures in the game on the board and then backing them up with Umezawa's Jitte, and often times the SB Pernicious Deed is passed over for Dueling Grounds against aggro.
Any way, now that Goblins are "dead" in this format, I think it's a mistake not to use Dark Confidant in any deck with black, and Gaddock Teeg gives discard the answer it was always looking for against combo. Mystical Enforcer is a pretty good SB finisher, fyi.
Ohran Viper actually looks pretty sweet, I may have to try that out myself.
Hi. Thanks for your replies to my thread.
Of course there is no significant reason NOT to run Tarmogoyf and Thoughtseize. Your progressive critics are right, so I will change it.
And of course Gofy is amazing with a lot of maindeck discard...
Thank you.Quote:
Check out these other thread to see what other decks are running Doran, maybe they will give you some more ideas.
Sounds logically to me. I will test it.Quote:
You have no way of fetching out the basic Swamp. I think you either want to cut it for the 4th Bayou, or reconfigure your fetchlands so that you can fetch it.
You're right again.Quote:
[I think Harmonic Sliver and Vindicate are redundant, so I'd cut the Sliver. Same with Deed and Crime/Punishment. I'd probably drop the Deed. Also, with such an emphasis on Doran, I'd think you'd want to run one in the board to Wish for. Extirpate and Haunting Echoes seem redundant, so you might want to think about replacing one or the other (probably Echoes).
Vindicate makes a better job than the sliver and hits nearly everything. Crime/Punishment seems the better choice, because it is much faster than the Deed and more flexible in my own movements.
At the moment I test a lot of cards for wish-abuse, as Saffi Eriksdotter, Aura Mutation, Mystic Enforcer, Grave-Shell Scarab, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf or (not laugh) Debtors' Knell, Bloodbond March, (and many more crap :tongue: )
Thanks, I will test increasingly the Confidant in the next days.Quote:
Any way, now that Goblins are "dead" in this format, I think it's a mistake not to use Dark Confidant in any deck with black, and Gaddock Teeg gives discard the answer it was always looking for against combo. Mystical Enforcer is a pretty good SB finisher, fyi.
Goblins should be dead and the meta shifted, but in -my personal meta- there are actual many aggroplayers. But of course this is not representative for the format...
Why no Doran in the SB as a wish target? you're only running 2 MDed maybe a sideboard slot would be in order.
I really have to excuse myself.
The sideboard that I posted was more a summary of possible cards (some kind of brainstorming) than a play-strongly Board / final Version.
So please forgett my first posted Sideboard, it was just an example.
I test many cards as Wishtargets at the moment (there are more than 20 that I would really like to play), and you are right, another Doran fits well here.
Thanks for reply.
EDIT:
What about - 1-2 Forest, + 1-2 Nantuko Monastery as Post-Deed-Tech?
does any one have any sb ideas?
Its hard to post a Sb for any deck due to the fact that SB's should be molded to the meta you play in. If I were playing this deck in the Current Syracuse Meta:Quote:
Originally Posted by DURESSyou92
3 x E. Plague
3 x Krosan Grip
3 x Smother
4 x Extirpate
2 x Eyes of the Wisent
This is something I've been working on to compete in the current thresh heavy meta. It basically started with the shells of truffle shuffle and deadguy ale and has developed into this:
Lands:22
4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Scrubland
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Swamp
Creatures:14
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Doran, The Seize Tower
Noncreature Spells:24
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual
3 Vindicate
3 Smother
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:15
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Extirpate
H2H:
I haven't done enough testing to post results, they will be added when more testing has occurred.
I like the deck. The only change I would make in the deck is changing the Dark Rituals into something else. The Dark Rituals will most likely be a dead card in your hand for the most part. I would also swap the Jotun Grunts to Eternal Witness.
-3 Jotun Grunt
-4 Dark Ritual
-4 Swords to Plowshares
+3 Vendetta
+4 Eternal Witness
+1 Vindicate
+3 Gerrard's Verdict
Seems a bit heavy on creature removal to me- 4 Swords, 3 Vindicate, 2 Jitte seems like plenty for the main deck. I would be tempted to use Spectral Lynx in the spot of the Smothers. Gives you another Jitte carrier, another trump to Goyf, an unblockable beast against Thresh and another non-dead spell against Combo/Landstill.
I'd think Dark Ritual would be better as Aether Vial or a 1cc guy as well; without Nantuko Shades to giant growth Ritual is a really worthless top deck in the late game- the same could be said for Vial, but at least it's something control decks don't want you to have on the table regardless of the game state.
I would probably play 2x Nantuko Monastery over Mishra's Factory as well, since First strike is pretty hawt, and with fetches, creature removal, and discard, as well as some bodies probably making their way to the GY Threshold doesn't seem that hard to achieve by the time you've played your hand out and would be wanting to use your mana to fuel a man land.