What in gods name are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
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What in gods name are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Read a Drew Levin/Ari Lax/whoever article every now and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
you mean like:Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Heap doll
yixlid jailer
scavenging ooze
Jotun grunt
?
1) I am certain that banning Brainstorm makes blue significantly worse, but it's certainly possible that banning something else would be more effective at this task. It's hard to think what, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTrudeau
2) I don't think anyone can accurately predict what a metagame without Brainstorm would look like.
You said people will play non-blue decks like Zoo. You then said they would snap out of auto-pilot mode. Last time I checked, Zoo was more auto-pilot than blue-aggro decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Maverick already uses ooze (which hilariously kicks the crap out of Tarmogoyfs).Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
I think people should play more Maverick before calling for bans on blue.
I meant autopiloting deck/card choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Ironically, I played 2 Ooze and got T8. I also don't think that Brainstorm needs to go. Right now, Legacy is on a blue-high. R&D needs to address the imbalance between blue spells (and spell-like creatures) to give Legacy/Eternal more tools in colors other than Blue. frogboy I'm looking at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Until that happens, I'll continue to play Maverick and Beat On Blue.
Oh well in that case I still disagree since people will just auto-pilot Zoo lists. It's called net-decking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
people will netdeck the best deck no matter wat it is. it's silly to think banning cards will have any effect on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Blue is fun to play, period.
Brainstorm is a overpowered card, but it keeps the fun of playing blue in legacy.. People are just lazy in playing other decks and everyone likes to have Daze, FoW, Brainstorm, Clique, Snapcaster, Spell Snare, Jace, etc on their side.. If Wizards want us to play all creatures vs creatures with stupid combos I'm against that kind of format.
People that are complaining and who want to see BS banned do us a favor.. Go play modern..
It's OK if the format makes people maindeck a single Scavenging Ooze or Bojuka Bog to tutor for. But if people had to maindeck dedicated graveyard hate cards that do little else, like Tormod's Crypt and Surgical Extraction... that would be a different story altogether. I recall some Survival apologists argued people should do that. But nobody else wants a format like that. Hell, I even doubt those Survival players would have wanted that, 'cause if they did, they would have gone over to Standard to stomp Caw Blade with MD Torpor Orbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Couldn't agree more. No bans are needed...Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterGuy
Surgical Extraction seems pretty powerful right now, as does Nihil Spellbomb. I continue to find new targets for Surgical Extraction. Nihil Spellbomb is a cantrip along with targeted graveyard removal (which is why I think it is better suited for maindeck inclusion over Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus...but you could make a pretty good argument for Relic also.)Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Imagine a format with expected maindeck graveyard hate...all of a sudden Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker don't seem so great anymore (this being the metaphorical Bizarro Fantasy Land)
The original question was asking about creature's with those abilities. This class of cards allows you to still have functional yard hate while not playing dead cards. Spell-based yard hate is more narrow, even if it is good against certain decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
How many times do enjoy facing people playing: Turn 1 Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Extirpate?
Zoo is the winningest deck in Legacy's history.
Voted No
Something blue needs to go, but I guess Delver would be the better choice
They will never ban a creature. They might use newly printed creatures to justify banning other cards. Snapcaster could be for brainstorm that Vengevine was for Survival.Quote:
Originally Posted by paK0
Hell, They would even print a creature that gives your Instants and Sorceries storm and LaPille would claim that the Instants and Sorceries are the problem and Not the creature.
True, I don't think the Delver ban will happen but it is what I believe would be best for the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
As someone who has advocated banning Goyf repeatedly, and still would favor that, I tend to agree with Lemnear, at least to a large extent; I think they'd be very reluctant to ban a creature for just being good on the ground again, and if it comes to a combo they prefer to ban a noncreature half. They banned Survival over Vengevine and Flash over Protean Hulk.
Whether they're burned from memories of Juggs and Kird Ape being banned in old Extended or they just figure players are more attached to their critters, I dunno. I think it also goes doubly for new cards. The odds of them banning Snapcaster or Delver over the problem spell from Legacy's dim past seem small at best. Delver right now is one of the top three or four creatures for sheer aggressiveness in Legacy before its superior color placement is taken into account; but without Brainstorm it would be significantly weaker. I think they're going to give that a go first, then.
Every "Go play modern" post in this thread just feeds into a mountain of proverbial douche-baggery and retardation. Nice mature answer there, bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by warai
Anyways, you state that playing blue is "fun," like it's a fact or something - when it's quite obviously your opinion. Here's mine: it is not fun - in fact, I would rather play against Dredge all day long then play blue control. I would rather play the most mindless aggro deck possible. I hate playing blue control.
I think Snapcaster can be a candidate. Blue is a color of spells. It doesn't need such powerful spell-creatures like Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage. It already has powerful spells. Powerful creatures should belong to other colors, utility creatures should help out other colors (green, red, white). Delver is a strong candidate due to being both blue and a strong beater but it is not as widely used as the Snapcasters and it really works well in the Tempo department. Snapcaster is used in everything blue including Combo.
As someone that has played extensively with the current RUG decks I don't agree with this. Brainstorm can set up Delver to flip but honestly he flips the first turn on his own about half the time (a little more I think). Obviously Brainstorm interacts well with Delver but it's wrong to think that it will "significantly" weaken it. Delver would still be a widely played creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
The idea of this is absolutely hilarious. Stormcaster Mage would be the best funnest card ever. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Clearly the best way to balance blue is to strengthen other colors and decks.
UNBAN THE FOLLOWING:
Earthcraft
Why: It would help boost elf decks which as of now are very close to becoming powerful in regards to being tier 1. Not every deck could abuse it and may encourage mono-green decks to try and take advantage of this card. More aggro/combo decks would emerge.
Decks that would benefit most: Elves.
Goblin Recruiter
Why: Goblins have been doing pretty poorly lately. Between SFM decks, Maverick, Zoo, and combo, Goblins is not a good choice. I feel that by unbanning this goblin, it may give them the boost they need to become more competitive again.
Decks that would benefit most: Goblins.
Survival of the Fittest
Why: Between Snappy being able to recur cards like Surgical Extraction and Extirpate along with the fact that aggro decks like Maverick have the ability to get man-decked yard hate like Scavenging Ooze and Bojuka Bog, I think putting SotF on parole in the current meta would be a safe experiment to try.
Decks that would benefit most: Non-blue aggro/combo decks were being optimized as the best lists before it got banned.
Unban these at the same time for lulz:
Balance
Black Vise
Frantic Search
Gush
Hermit Druid
Land Tax
Memory Jar
Mental Misstep
Mind Twist
Mind's Desire
Skullclamp
Worldgorger Dragon
Goblins is a good choice in this meta... Do you have SCG premium - or? Reason, I responded to this; Goblin Recruiter is a horribly designed card for play purposes and logistical purposes. The card literally lets you stack your deck, which can take a long time, plus the card is just straight up bonkers broken in Vial Gobs. The card takes several minutes to cast, and is just too good.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
This is ridiculous to suggest unbanning Recruiter, I can only assume you've never played against it.
Although I don't plan on ever owning a legacy deck that plays Brainstorm, I would not want to see it banned, but since I have no particular use for the card I wouldn't mind to see what would happen. I don't think it would be a total cataclysm for the game. I would just like to see more cards printed for my main deck and side-board to help even out match-ups that are won or lost by the smallest of margins. Nothing would upset me more than ubiquitous Legacy staples at mythic rarity. Other than that, people will still want to play with the 99% of other cards in Legacy besides Brainstorm.
Goblin Recruiter would be 'fair' in Legacy, but not against aggro decks. Unbanning Recruiter would be a concession to the fact that Legacy is all about blue Brainstorm decks, and Goblins would be the single best aggro deck in the format. < although I feel 'Food Chain' Goblins would suck in this day and age, Vial decks playing one or two Recruiters would be best equipped to fight Brainstorm.
No it isn't and I don't give a shit what SCG thinks. The data at TC Decks doesn't support your views.Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
Ok, and its not SCG, its Drew Levin. I'd wager he knows a good deal more than you about legacy and meta calls in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
But you don't know shit about Goblins right? I mean your suggestion was ridiculous and then your response to my post has nothing to do with Gobs so I guess you don't know what you're talking about.
If Goblins is so good right now, where are all of the Goblin players?Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/met...&fecha=2011-10
FFS Burn performed better than Goblins. You're clearly talking out of your ass.
God, nothing worse than an arrogant Goblins player.
I think you're just being sad about me calling you out for not knowing shit about the subject you were arguing. Like, seriously, there is nothing to be discussed, you made a retarded suggestion. I was curious why you made the suggestion, you (by selectively not responding to my assertions about Recruiter) let everyone know you were ignorant on the subject by not saying anything about why your suggestion isn't laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
I play G/W Maverick, Dark Thresh and U/W/x Stoneblade mostly - I can build any legacy deck I want... Not an "arrogant goblins player" by a long shot, strange player archetype you have dreamed up there...
You didn't call me out on shit. In the past GR would have been too powerful but with the way the meta is currently looking it's a safe choice to at least try. I'm well aware of how powerful it is and have used it and played against it. You can pretend all you want that I'm "ignorant" but no one is going to fall for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
It also doesn't take "several minutes to cast" unless you're new to the deck. Far less time than CounterTop decks take over the course of a single game.
I'm not looking to convince anyone you're ignorant on the subject, I was speaking with you and I wanted you to know I don't take your opinion on the subject seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Also, yup, it does take minutes to stack most of the time, this really shows your newness to the deck. Countertop decks are also slow as shit so weird comparison to draw there...
-Yup, still talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
No they don't take "minutes" to stack unless you're new to the deck. Once you hit a GR you won't have to worry about using another since multiples are redundant when using them with Vial: one GR going off each game isn't nearly as big a deal as you are making it time wise. Seriously, have you used the card?Quote:
Also, yup, it does take minutes to stack most of the time. Countertop decks are also slow as shit so weird comparison to draw there...
The reason I drew a comparison to CounterTop is if people can sit through and play CounterTop, they'll be just fine with GR.
Well now that I've looked at your Stoneforge Mystic + Counterbalance / Top deck I think that I don't have to take too much of what you have say too seriously. That deck is the most lulzy pile I've ever seen someone write a primer about LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Personal attack? I really should know better than to feed trolls. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
My bad, I'll stop feeding you.
Nah, nothing against you personally, just the deck you made sucks. Why not play a good blue deck instead of CB with Stoneforges, incredibly ass backwards and awkward. I won't say anything more in the hopes of not derailing this thread any further.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Woah settle down! Or cool it? Basically, just don't flame.
Recruiter has issues that enable just too much tom-foolery. Especially tom-foolery involving getting every card a goblins player wants and then some. I think they even made Food Chain goblins a good deck back in the day. Trust me, you don't want to sit in front of nubs trying to learn the deck in front of you because you didn't concede immediately. Especially if they end up winning in a very long and roundabout way.
I know this because my play group unbanned it for a day.
It's funny because the noobs learning to play Food Chain Goblins analogy can apply to noobs learning to play DDFT.
With that reason, I think we should be talking about the banning of Doomsday.
I vote yes but Snapcaster must go too. I want to see MUD, Junk, Stompy et al. have an equal footing with the blue decks around, not just Maverick. Legacy deserves a fresh start, it's up to the players to continue to support the format. At the end of the day, I'm convinced it's the right call.
It does not take several minutes to resolve Recruiter. If you playtested then you would know what to stack on top of your deck. Recruiter is no worse than Top or similar cards. There are piles that you would memorize just like Doomsday. In addition, you don't always want to stack your deck. Sometimes all you need is to Wordly Tutor or set up a Ringleader pile. Plus, if someone resolves a Recruiter with Food Chain in play and you can't interact that turn why would you waste time and not concede? It's the same idea of being Waste-locked under a Trinisphere.Quote:
Originally Posted by xDITx Force of Will
In response to the idea of Goblins becoming the default best aggro deck I say "So what?". I see no problem with that. There are two agressive decks in the format right now: Zoo and Maverick and the former is on the decline. No one has lamented the loss of all the other agressive decks that have fallen by the wayside and it appears the archetype needs a lot of help if they are going to continue their current trend of printing loads of Blue cards that do everything and are better than other colors cards. So in reality it would only supplant Maverick but that's just speculation at this point that deck might keep its niche.
Whether or not the deck abuses Food Chain or is sticks to the more conventional lists with an unbanned Recruiter is up in the air. That's something only playtesting would be able to answer; it would also be dependent on what the metagame looked like. If there were lots of creature decks I would most likely want Food Chain.