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Originally Posted by
Deirex85
In what scenario are legacy cards not powerful? Just because you have a very narrow view of what is considered powerful does not mean that Legacy is not powerful.
Doesn't matter since you've presumedly ignored me.
Force of Will, Brainstorm and Wasteland are not POWERFUL cards. They are BALANCED cards. And Legacy is not a POWER format. It was intended to be the FAIR format,and the SMART format.
If anyone hasn't been here since the beginning of Legacy, you'd be informed to read Adam Barnello's article series on the history of the format. Legacy was created by banning all of the power cards in Vintage, including Workshops and Bazaars. They certainly would have banned dual lands then as well if they had been $400 back then instead of $15.
Some highlights from his articles to keep in mind:
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At the time, circa 2003, the 1.5 format was the bastard step-child of Vintage. The people who played it were ridiculed and cast off from the teat of the mother format. While Vintage (at the time, called Type 1) had a healthy and thriving metagame and plenty of players, 1.5 was a wasteland where only the few people obsessed with it even knew of its existence. It didn’t even have its own banned list – it was just the Type 1 restricted and banned lists combined, meaning any card banned or restricted in T1 was banned in 1.5. The decks of the time were all super-powered compared to the decks of today. There were 1.5 “power” cards, which were all super expensive – in the range of $100 or more for a playset. These cards, Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra’s Workshop, Mana Drain, etc, were the pillars of the format, and on the backs of these the format took shape:
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The people I’d left behind when venturing into the world of academia had been busy. Some of them had become moderators on TheManaDrain.com, and when differences of opinion on what was best for the 1.5 portion of the site had arisen, they left the site to found mtgTheSource.com, which was the first dedicated forum to the development of 1.5.
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The intent was for a home to be created for players who would soon be feeling the effects of the impending Extended rotation. With the first rotation coming up, dual lands and the rest of the older cards would have no home other than the antiquated Type 1 format, or the expensive and overpowered Type 1.5 format. They wanted to solve a few problems in one swoop, and the result was Legacy.
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1.5 players were pissed. The format that they’d worked so hard to develop – literally from the ground up – had vanished in the blink of an eye. The cards they had worked to earn or win or break were devalued, and were mostly just fodder for eBay or trades. They had pimped out versions of illegal decks, they had nowhere to look for tech, and they basically had to start completely new with a format that only barely resembled something familiar.
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Think about how much damage banning a single card like Jace would do to Standard. Think about how much damage banning more than one card – say, Jace and Preordain – would do. Now imagine that there are no PTQs, no Grand Prixs, and no SCG Opens. Imagine that the only events you play in are your FNMs, but you play in them as though each was Sunday of the Pro Tour. Now imagine they banned not only Jace and Preordain, but Primeval Titan, Valakut, Goblin Guide, Stoneforge Mystic – and just for good measure, banned Fauna Shaman and Vengevine, too. Now you’re scratching the surface of just how devastating these changes were. The 1.5 players had every right to be upset.
So try to understand my perspective, as someone who started in 1994 and was around when 1.5 got chopped into Legacy, why I find trying to sell Legacy as a POWER format pretty funny.
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In addition please don't assume that my duals are fake, you have no way of knowing other than assuming because you disliked me disagreeing with your hyperbole bullshit, so you immediately decided to attack my personal purchasing decisions.
I can assure you that all my duals are legit as both me and several knowledgeable other players have checked them, I also only ever buy from legitimate sellers in my home country.
If you've purchased dual lands within the past five years, you seriously should examine them with a loupe if you want to know for certain they are not fakes. From some investigation that I've done over the past month, there's been around 500,000 - 1,000,000 high quality fake revised dual lands put into circulation over the past 5 years, and not just limited to China or Asia but all over the world. So basically between 1/2 and 3/4 of all revised dual lands are high quality fakes. There are also high quality fake betas as well but you'd be pretty stupid to buy a beta that looks fresh out of the pack.
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I don't owe you or anyone else shit so I will keep my duals for as long as I want and never ever feel bad about it.
You talk a lot of crap about "fighting" but what does that even entail for you? I'm an active member of my local legacy community and that is enough for me.
Edit: Ignored, there's no point in reading your weak attempts of gatekeeping, you do not get to decide what is and isn't nostalgia.
You also have no idea of how long most people have been playing so you're not impressing anyone with "I've been playing since 1994".
That's the sad thing about Legacy. It's stagnant because there's little or no growth in the playerbase. Everyone who wants Force of Wills basically already has them. So there's no point in WotC printing a million more copies of FoW or Wasteland, since there's no point in getting those cards if you can't get Volcanic Islands and Underground Seas. So as soon as you talked about buying dual lands with your paycheck, I pretty much knew you didn't start 25 or even 20 years ago.
The only way to save Legacy is for those of us that care for it to organize and proactively find solutions to the issues that limit the growth of the playerbase and block Modern players from transitioning into Legacy players. That's why it's clear to me that getting rid of dual lands is a necessary and urgent step to save the Legacy format. Such a large shift would tumesce interest among Modern players to give Legacy a go. I don't think WotC wants to kill Legacy, but there's nothing more they can do to save it. It's in the hands of the community now. That's why I made this thread.
