Konsultant used too... he played 2 copies of them in fact...Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
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Konsultant used too... he played 2 copies of them in fact...Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
On the tournaments i play (dülmen in germany) are only 2-3 Goblins Deck from 60-70, i think the most played decks is NGQ. So i think about adding Stones. Do you think Wrath or Stone in my metaQuote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
If the NQG lists play Pithing Needle, Krosan Grip, Counterbalance or Stifle, Oblivion Stone is strictly inferior to Wrath of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavaSava
Also, there's a higher probability of Oblivion Stone getting hit by Counterbalance... just don't play it.
The only advantage of Oblivion Stone over Wrath of God is the Dragon Stompy matchup which isn't even all that bad if you play the 6-Basics version with a Blue Elemental Blast in the Wishboard and the occasional Affinity/Enchantress which no-one plays (and even in the Affinity matchup, Stone might be too slow) - in all other matchups Wrath of God is better as it is faster and less vulnerable. Also, there are not enough Artefacts and Enchantments around in decks not having them as a main engine/way to victory (read: Affinity, Enchantress and the like) and you care of even less of these Artefacts/Enchantments making make the additional versatility of Stone not worth it over Wrath especially if you can also always handle the random problematic Artefact/Enchantment via Engineered Explosives or Cunning Wish for Return to Dust.
Also, don't copy any other of Patrick Richter's techs... most of them are rather horrible (I still don't know how that guy manages to top8 like every Iserlohn).
He has got Germany's highest rating. So he's also bribing some opponents (he offers them all of his prize boosters if they concede for him for example, to retain his rating).Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund
Iserlohn might have big events, but even nowadays the Top8 lists are random, random and... random. Except when one of the ayB-guys T8, their lists are always quite solid.
Still do actually. I've been toying with my Runed Halo version and Krosan Grip seems to be just the boost the deck needs. I'm not certain if it's better than Extirpate though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
I have made mention to posting my project list after the last event I went to but I lost 7-games [3 entire rounds] to mana screw. The card gods were not on my side that day, I will wait until the deck either wins or loses on it's own. I am running the exact same mana count as I have been for years and I only lost one game to Wasteland, I really just kicked my own ass.
Would you play Krosan Grips over Disenchants, or do you play a copy over Return to Dust?Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
I look forward to it to seeing the new list.Quote:
I have made mention to posting my project list after the last event I went to but I lost 7-games [3 entire rounds] to mana screw. The card gods were not on my side that day, I will wait until the deck either wins or loses on it's own. I am running the exact same mana count as I have been for years and I only lost one game to Wasteland, I really just kicked my own ass.
Well I got a touch discouraged after the massacre I recieved at the last Hadley event but I have managed to win the last 3 local events with some revisions. The build has gone in an unexpected direction but has given me good results. After the Hadley event this month I'll post up my deck list. I am not however running Cunning Wish and as much as love playing that card the version I have built now is greatly out-performing my wish based version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
If I was to ever run Wish again I would run 1 Return to Dust and if I was using Green I would play 2 Grips that could be Boarded in. I wasn't reliably running Green Mana before with the 1 Trop and 1 Savannah so I just played 2 Disenchants.
Good luck at Hadley.Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
So you'd run Grips in the SB which would be boarded in if you were running a build similar to the Hybrid. But with the CWish version, you would run Return to Dust and 2 Disenchants in the SB? If you were to play the CWish build, what would your SB look like atm?Quote:
If I was to ever run Wish again I would run 1 Return to Dust and if I was using Green I would play 2 Grips that could be Boarded in. I wasn't reliably running Green Mana before with the 1 Trop and 1 Savannah so I just played 2 Disenchants.
How looks your boarding plan with the UWb Cunning LS against
- Deaguy
- Survial
- Breakfast
- different kinds of Loam-Decks?
It depends on what your Sideboard looks like. I still run Spell Snares in mine and such. If you want my build with boarding here's what I tend to do:
// Mana 25
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Tolaria West
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Eternal Dragon
// Spells 36
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Cunning Wish
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Wrath of God
2 Humility
3 Decree of Justice
// Sideboard 15
1 Return to Dust
1 Krosan Grip
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Enlighten Tutor
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Extirpate
3 Runed Halo
3 Spell Snare
Deadguy Ale:
-3 Wrath of God
-1 DoJ
-2 Fact or Fiction
-3 Cunning Wish
+3 Spell Snare
+3 Extirpate
+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Enlighten Tutor
+1 Runed Halo
Breakfast:
-3 Cunning Wish
-2 Fact or Fiction
-3 Wrath of God
-1 Counterspell
-1 Decree of Justice
+3 Spell Snare
+3 Extirpate
+3 Runed Halo
+1 Enlighten Tutor
Aggro-Loam:
-3 Cunning Wish
-3 Wrath of God
-2 Fact or Fiction
+3 Runed Halo
+3 Extirpate
+1 Enlighten Tutor
+1 Crucible of Worlds
I really like your list anti-american.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
Draw Engine:
Your draw engine is well-rounded because pairing fact or fictions with cunning wish gives you more advantage compared to just running either one independantly. You also don't really run out of gas either and FoF can just supplement cunning wish really well. Considering both C. wish and FoF are huge CA enablers in the late game.
Countermagic:
I like your countermagic configuration especially postboard. Running 4 CS, 4 Fow, and 3 SS in the board covers huge amount of ground in just about any matchup. Also since you run a ton of removal they tend to sum up your countermagic configuration nicely.
lol.... the Plains and the Island were supposed to be a Savannah and Tropical Island. If you guys feel that there's too much Dragon Stompy in your meta, replace the Grips with Dismantling Blow if you feel that running a third Plains and Island is better suited for your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
I knew that there was a discrepancy some where along the line....
Anyways, I really haven't gotten a chance to test the 6 basic version w/ 3 mishra's and 3 DoJs... I have been busy with other projects... I will test it, although I always liked the other version, and didn't ever have any mana/winning issues with it... the 2island/3plains/4mishras/2decrees...
I haven't had issues with it, although I do agree that decree is the quicker and more efficient kill-con.
I just think mishra gets weaker the less of them you run... I could be wrong.
I will test it soon however!
Hi,
i reply my Questions:
How looks your boarding plan with the UWb Cunning LS (with Imaginärer Freunds List) against
- Deaguy
- Survial
- Breakfast
- different kinds of Loam-Decks?
lol? Exactly the same question you asked before?
The actual list from Clemens is nearly the same. The only difference is M.Mage and Snare. I bet you are intelligent enough to figure out wether snare or mage is better against any deck.
They're Fact of Fictions, one Eternal Dragon more than in Clemens List, so i'm not sure if the boarding plan is the same.
My list is currently heavily fluctuating so that I haven't made up my mind about any boarding plans concerning it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavaSava
I assume for the following that you're using the 24 lands (3 Factory) + 3 DoJ version.
Also, feel free to point out any inconsistencies in the boarding strategies or any possible improvements.
Against Deadguy AleQuote:
Originally Posted by FlavaSava
-1 Decree of Justice
-3 Cunning Wish
+3 Runed Halo
+1 Enlightened Tutor
Decree gets boarded out because if your opponent is doing his job well, he should deny you of lands making DoJ rather clunky.
Cunning Wish gets the axe because there's just not a lot of good stuff to get: Slaughter Pact doesn't kill their biggest threats [Dark Confidant, Tombstalker] and the other cards are rather mediocre too.
Survival
This is very vague as there is nothing like a definitive Survival list. You have to adapt your boarding strategy to whatever variant you're facing (for instance you won't board the same against the more Rockish Survival variants than against the more midrange variants).
Following is just a general boarding strategy that can be used for most of the variants.
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Eternal Dragon
-2 Decree of Justice
-1 Wrath of God
+3 Runed Halo
+2 Extirpate
Your gameplan here really is resolving and protecting a Humility and nothing else. Also, get rid of Genesis and Cabal Therapy (if they play it) as quickly as possible - those are the prime targets for your Extirpates, those and Krosan Grip if they play it. If you happen to face a red splashed variant, Burning Wish (after countering one) is also a good target for Extirpate as Wish usually is their only out to Humility.
Breakfast
-3 Wrath of God
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Eternal Dragon
-2 Decree of Justice
-1 Counterspell
-1 Standstill
+4 Meddling Mage
+2 Extirpate
+3 Runed Halo
Meddling Mage will name Dread Return most of the time.
Loam-Decks
Again, this is a very vague description as there are huge differences amongst the Loam lists.
1) Against Aggro Loam:
-3 Wrath of God
-1 Standstill
-1 Counterspell
-3 Cunning Wish
-1 Decree of Justice
-1 Eternal Dragon
-1 Crucible of Worlds
+4 Meddling Mage
+3 Extirpate
+3 Runed Halo
+1 Blue Elemental Blast
Wrath of God gets replaced by Runed Halo which does exactly the same thing most of the time as they can't afford to overextend into the Wrath of Gods you might have and because they actually only need to have one creature on the table in order to win so that there's even less incentive for them to play more.
Cunning Wish comes out because its too slow.
Decree of Justice is awesome at stalling Tarmogoyfs and Crushers but sadly they also have big, fat, trampling dorks which DoJ does nothing at stopping so that you can board one out.
Crucible gets boarded out because Mage is better against Devastating Dreams as even with CoW on the table, they can still use Dreams as a tempo card to swing in for the win while you're trying to rebuild your manabase from your graveyard.
The lone Counterspell getting boarded out might look random but it isn't as you're moving your sideboard Blue Elemental Blast to the main which acts the same function as their prime threats are red (Dreams, Crusher, Wish).
Meddling Mage comes in because he truly is Mr. Awesome in this matchup due to his flexibility: he can stop the Loam engine if you don't have Extirpate, he can stop their best chance at winning the game out of nowhere by chanting Devastating Dreams and in the lategame he can even prevent them from winning by naming some wincondition which is rather effective as they don't have many (10-12) and especially not many different ones.
2) Against 43Lands:
-3 Wrath of God
-2 Humility
-4 Standstill
+4 Meddling Mage
+3 Runed Halo
+2 Extirpate
Coincidentally, this is also the boarding plan for the Landstill mirror.
Are you guys really sure Runed Halo is a sideboard card? Why? Just because the wording is similar to Ivory Mask and Meddling Mage which are sideboard cards doesn't mean it also has to be. It's effectively creature removal in many/most cases. We play creature removal maindeck.
I'd love to play Runed Halo main, especially since close to no-one has access to enchantment removal preboard turning it into a spot removal + Extirpate which is pretty strong, especially against all of the aggro control decks running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
On the other hand, you already play quite a lot of removal main (so that you don't want to cut further on the non-removal package) and all (!) of them are better than Runed Halo - Engineered Explosives because of also being able to destroy artefacts and enchantments, Swords to Plowshares because of the cost and because it can actually get rid of the creature which is important against utility creatures like Dark Confidant or Meddling Mage, Wrath of God because it creates card advantage and handles multiple creatures which is especially important in your aggro matchups (Goblins & co.).
The easiest cut would be Wrath of God but you actually really need that condition-less sweeper in many matchups because otherwise, doing only 1 for 1 trades, you're eventually going to be overwhelmed by creatures.
Also, the matchups where Runed Halo really shines (aggro control) are rather good already so that I think that it best stays as an anti-combo card in the sideboard, with the little add-in of also being able to be boarded in when you have some mediocre cards in the main and normally nothing to board in (which happens quite a lot against random aggro/aggro control).
Clemens "Der_imaginäre_Freund" Wolff and I played UWb Cunning Landstill at our monthly Event in hassloch and be both Top8ed, me with a 5-1 record an he with 4-1-1.
I lost against Christian Schäfer's Lands.dec-Variant (something like Eternal Garden) but annihilated the rest of the field. Clemens lost against BG Rock SOMEHOW and also SOMEHOW couldn't manage to win against UGW Threshold, ending up with a draw. O.o
Anyways, this is the liste we both played:
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [A] Tundra
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [A] Scrubland
3 [PT] Plains (1)
3 [PT] Island (1)
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [A] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
3 [PT] Wrath of God
2 [TE] Humility
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
Clemens will write a "Team SPOD's performance @ Hassloch" again, I think I will simply add my own impressions.
But my matchups were:
1. Oliver Salten with Geddon Stax 2-0 Win; Ret2Dust is BROKEN SHIT, as well as Meddling Mage naming "Armageddon", hihi.
2. Patric Hiness with Mono Red Painter "Facegrinder" 2-0 Win; his deck is quite inconsistent, it always makes 1 to 1 trades and generates 0,00 CA. he runs out of gas while i still generate Ca via Standstill and fact. I am also able to handle every single Painter he plays though he has got 8 Red Blasts and 2 Active Volcano MD.
3. Christian Schäfer with "Perfect Loam" 2-0 Loss; His deck is quite similar to Lands.dec. Additionally, he's developing it for a year or so, he did play it well. Worst matchup in the room. Whatever, 5-1 is still possible!
4. Richard Lessmann with UGW Thresh 2-0; he says he will concede because he can't win with Thresh. We do price split. I won the fungame 2-0 afterwards.
5. Sebastian Page with Dragonstompy 2-1 Win; g1 I forgot to fetch in response to Magus because he distracted me, I can't explain it. That's why it was "just" a 2-1 win and not 2-0. Oo
6. Fabian Moyschewitz with Baseruption 2-1 Win. G1 he manages to race me, but the other 2 games I have the usual standard-solid draw and he has got manaflood. g2 i boarded Runed Halos, but g3 I switched to the old Extirpate-Plan again since he only runs 12 critters: 4 MM, 4 Confidant and 4 Goyf. I always sweeped him with WoG and Explosives.
And so I ended 5-1, taking the 2nd place after Manuel "derheiler" Heiler, who won the event FOR THE THIRD FUCKING TIME IN A ROW. I mean, he sucks! And his deck also sucks! And... everyone who lost against him sucks! But it's OK since he is also Team SPOD.
Only Harald "Locutus" Herrlich failed hard, performing 3-2-1 with Aggroloam. So 3 out of 4 persons of Team SPOD Top8ed.
So you guys are running FoF again? I would like the reasoning behind playing FoF maindeck again for this list, because you guys didnt have it a while back.
I like the cut of a copy of Cunning Wish because the toolbox is getting smaller and smaller. It's a really reasonable change.
2 DoJs makes my heart ache. I think that cutting the 4th Factory for another DoJ was the right move, but then again, maintaining the consistency of land drops early game should make up for the lack of the 3rd copy of DoJ. The 25th land is also helpful when you guys have to power out an FoF.
I guess Clemens has always got better explanations than I have concering Landstill, the reason why I played it was because Clemens was whining around before the tourney. And so I simply copy-pasted his list and played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
Well, I don't know why exactly he cutted the 3rd Decree again. But his boarding plans were always "-1 Decree" and so I said: "Why are you running the 3rd Decree instead of a 4th Mishra if you are boarding it out against nearly everything?".
But I think it has rather to do with the inclusion of FoF. Crucible is somehow getting worse from time to time, and therefor it was cut for FoF. The 3rd Decree can therefore be cut for a second FoF, because Fof digs 5 cards deep, which can find the Decrees quite efficiently. Or solutions.
I find the last thesis more plausible than the first one, because I hardly have influence on Clemens' ideas when we are talking about Landstill. But I suggested to cut Wasteland, because a singleton Wasteland is pretty useless if you are not running Crucible anymore.
You, Sir, should better listen more often to me - Landstill was just the perfect choice for the tournament: three people played the deck and all of them top8ed. The third Landstill player in the top8 was Mario Hirstein with a pre-FoF list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
I played against RB Goblins (2-0), The Rock (1-2), NQG/w (1-1), UWB Fish (2-1), Suicide BW (2-1) and Mono R Painter (2-1), in that order.
Observations made during the tournament:
- I boarded Runed Halo every round, especially to replace mediocre cards from the maindeck which is just what I thought the Runed Halos would do in the non-combo matchups, which is great.
- The manabase has reached a point of stability at which you can often fully ignore Blood Moon effects. Wasteland still hurts sometimes if used as a tempo card (to keep you off 4 mana) though.
- I often wished to have that third DoJ back in especially since it is your very best tool to end a game that you have under control before the opponent can recover.
A short report can be found here.
While I absolutely dislike Fact or Fiction as a card because its clunky and will most often only give you a net Card Advantage of one as the good opponent will always split the piles so that you basically have to take the smaller one, it is still one of the best draw spells available in Legacy, especially since it digs five cards deep which helps a lot in finding solutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
I never felt the need for additional card draw with the old lists and so never felt the need for additional FoFs, but then, over the last couple of months, I increasingly grew to dislike Crucible of Worlds (slow, doesn't affect the board, often winmore) so that I wanted to try something else in this slot. I then wanted to replace CoW with a card that is also decent in the matchups in which CoW is rather good but better in the others and came to the conclusion that additional draw spells would fill the gap the lack of Crucible would open as more CA balances out the loss of Crucible in both the control and attrition matchups.
With a singleton Fact or Fiction in the deck, I then started to think about cutting another card I was increasingly annoyed with: Cunning Wish. I still think that Cunning Wish is essential in Landstill, especially to beat your bad matchups preboard, but, on the other hand, drawing two is often a devastating tempo sink in your average or better matchups. Now I asked myself if I wasn't hurting my bad matchups too much by cutting a Cunning Wish: you actually don't need to improve your average or better matchups in my opinion. I came to the conclusion that you aren't hurting your bad matchups at all if you replace a Cunning Wish with another Fact or Fiction as FoF can always help dig for the Wish so that with two copies of it main you're actually increasing your odds to hit the Wish in time.
I too think that for the non-FoF lists this was the correct choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
Me switching back to the old configuration was directly linked to the inclusion of Fact or Fiction as with even more expensive spells, you really need to be able to make those first 4-6 land drops consistently even in the face of Wasteland or you're going to make your life just too hard. Fact or Fiction also helps to replenish your hand after making all those land drops making sure that you don't run out of spells.
While I don't agree with this statement as the singleton Wasteland can always be useful to kill opposing manlands or utility lands like Volrath's Stronghold, the cut of the Wasteland for another fetchland does also make your manabase even more stable which is worth the loss of the added flexibility. Tolaria West is still great even after the cut of the toolbox Wasteland though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
Ok, I am considering Playing this deck And was curious what is the optimal build for a combo heavy metagame, and Ichorid heavy metagame. There will probably be lots of goblins/aggro too.
A sideboard with Runed Halo + Meddling Mages should put an end to combo decks.
This is also a very good choice...
I rapes all those decks you said you would see, although I doubt you would survive the long tournament... here is my current list (I think it is the same as DIF's):
lands//24
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 island
3 plains
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 mishra's factory
1 academy ruins
1 tolaria west
4 tundra
creatures//1
1 eternal dragon
removal//12
4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
3 engineered explosives
2 humility
permission//8
4 counterspell
4 force of will
card advantage//12
4 standstill
4 brainstorm
2 fact or fiction
2 cunning wish
win//3
3 decree of justice
I have found this to be the best build I could get for my troubles...
My sideboard fluctuates:
4 meddling mage (non-negotiable)
4 runed halo/ghostly prison/engineered plague
1 pulse of the fields
3 extirpate
1 enlightened tutor
1 return to dust
1 slaughter pact
The runed halo slot is a meta choice, if you go with plague, you'll want to go:
-1 island
+1 underground sea
in the Md, the prisons are really good in a random meta like mine, where random agro is rampant, and it has the benefit of totally shutting off ichorid, which plague doesn't do... halo is good if you expect combo in force (by force I mean play it twice in a tourney)... Hope this helps.
That looks interesting, What about the following few changes would these work
MD
-1 FOF
+1 Cunning wish
-1 FOF
+1 wincondition... whatever is best after DoJ
is FOF really that good?
I have never built a variant for such a metagame, mainly because it is incredibly rare to find enough combo at a certain event to warrant metagaming for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Here're some thoughts though (taking this list as reference for all the changes):
- Playing Runed Halo main makes your combo matchup better while not really harming any others, I'd probably cut any combination of Fact or Fictions and Wrath of Gods for them as they're too slow in the combo matchups.
- Try -3 Wrath of God +3 Runed Halo for starters. You're harming your 'random aggro' and NQG matchups with this change though as you're including more cards that can get hit by Counterbalance and cut your most powerful removal spell.
- If you expect lots of Ichorid, you should play Moat over Humility main: a resolved Moat often spells 'gg' against Ichorid whereas Humility only makes them slower.
- -2 Humility +2 Moat. Again, you're hurting your other matchups by doing this change (random aggro, Goblins) but the most important matchup, NQG, isn't hurt too much. Against combo, both are close to irrelevant so that there's no real difference here.
- For a combo heavy metagame, Stifles are also an auto-include. I'd start cutting the clunkier cards for the Stifles, especially Fact or Fiction and Decree of Justice are just too slow.
- -1 Decree of Justice -2 Fact or Fiction +3 Stifle. I absolutely hate this change though as, outside of the combo matchups, Stifle is a horrible card in Cunning Landstill - it doesn't affect the board, it's a bad topdeck and the tempo gain is often minimal as most decks can operate on 1-2 lands just fine.
- Moving the Runed Halos to the main, you free up 3 slots in the sideboard - those can be then filled with anything, the best options include Stifle/Runed Halo n°4, Engineered Plagues, or even more Blue Elemental Blasts. I'd probably go with more Blue Elemental Blasts (good against combo [Burning Wish, Vexing Shusher] and Goblins).
- Sideboard: -3 Runed Halo +3 Blue Elemental Blast
But really, this is a variant to only be played in this particular, combo heavy, metagame - I would definitely not play it in a broader/unknown meta.
Fact isn't amazing but it's still good enough to be considered as a choice for the maindeck - it digs 5 cards deep searching you a solution for the current problem in 9 cases out of 10 and creates some card advantage while doing so (both in 'raw' terms meaning that you have more cards in hand after casting Fact and in 'virtual' terms meaning that you get the card which is best for the current situation). Replacing a Cunning Wish with it was definitely the right move since the Wish is extremely clunky and because Fact can also act as a pseudo Wish because of its dig. I wouldn't play it in aforementioned metagame though.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Hey, we do have the same MD :D ...
My meta has hardly any red, hence the no BeB thing.. although, if DStompy became popular again, I would definitely put it in in place of the fourth halo..
That's funny :D
I was thinking about building this deck... but I want to try Bitterblossum. It makes threats under the standstill. Even with multiples it might be good.
It sucks cocks. You will die too often so Blossom because you never ever want to be the one who makes the pressure. I don´t know how to explain HOW bad this card is in a LS because of my missing english skills but it is just freaking bad :D
BBlossome is about as bad in this deck, as writing on black lotus's to make proxies for wood elementals. There I said it most simply.
It is just like that in all versions.
All I know is that This version seems more stable then the UWbg versions with deed, granted a little less powerful because wrath doesnt destroy CB, 3Sphear, Blood moon, Vial exct but its STABLE.
What's the matter with Bitterblossom?! Why does everyone want to play it in almost every deck?
If you want to play a card that generates threats unter SStill without making lifeloss - and I mean useful threats - play Hoofprints of the Stag. You might replace Humilities with Moats then or play a split between Moat and Humility, the problem is just that one cards knocks out another:
Moat makes Decree suck,
Humility makes Hoofprints suck.
And as Clemens has already elaborated in several posts, you actually never want to play "pure" win-cons, you always want to play versatile cards that can act as winning conditions:
Eternal Dragon can be used to ramp mana,
Decree can do combat tricks, acting as semi-removal, generating CA and fog.
Mishra can beat the opponent and... yeah, it can produce mana.
But Hoofprints and Bitterblossom can only spawn critters. But Decree does it better in almost every situation.
The kill mechanism in Landstill is usually within 2 Turns late game. Blitterblossom doesnt let you kill in 2 Turns... Just play DoJ. Also, Bitterblossom blows as a card in Landstill. The point of Landstill is to maneuver yourself in a dominant position, not play cute threats under Standstill. Factories dont count because they dont interfere with your control cards and deck space. They also make fantastic blockers and actually produce mana. Bitterblossom just stalls when what you're suppose to do is answer and start chaining draw.
What about Vengeful Dreams for the wishboard?
Vengeful Dreams seems to be too much risk for too little reward. If it resolves, it's an x+1 for x in any reasonable case. It can never be card advantage unless you're facing auras. If it's countered, you just lost a lot of cards for no effect with a spell on the most common Counterbalance spot.
Wing Shards, on the other hand, can be card advantage if paired with cantrips, counter spells, Wish itself, or against haste creatures all while avoiding Counterbalance and possibly counter spells.
I didn't think of it to be Wished for against decks with countermagic; or at least, there aren't many decks around which both attack you with armies and also back them up with counters (Slivers, maybe). And it's meant to be the very opposite of card advantage: a way to cleanly and easily translate many cards from your hand into tempo (board position) in cases where you are very behind on that front.
Against what decks would Vengeful Dreams be effective? Not Goblins, you can't win against Goblins with one for one's. Not Aggro Loam, there are more efficient way to deal with Aggro Loam's threats. Not Affinity, artifact based removal would be better against that. Any Stompy deck is already a good match up.
If you use it to wipe the board, you're opponent may be in a bad position, but you're likely to be in an even worse one.
Vengeful Dreams = carddisadvantage!Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
Too bad. But try Wind Shards if you want such a card. It's also "resistant" against Counters thanks to Storm (6 Mana are expansive, tho).
I don't think there is room in the SB of any Landstill builds for "cute trick" cards like Vengefull Dreams. In fact the reason I eventually went away from wish was because I didn't have the room for the cards to fully power it. I understand the versatility that is still capable in the mini wish boards that are being run and how it give's you access to things like Extirpate and Pulse of the Fields whitch can both be very situational but still can be game breaking if you have them at the right time, but as it is nobody is even running a counter effect as a wish target I don't see how making room for things like Vengeful Dreams is a wise descision.
I'm glad that the Runed Halo's are finally being played in some side boards, it's the first powerful addition we have gotten for Landstill in a long time and I would hate to see that card being over-looked.
I believe to have worked all the kinks out of my current UWg without wish build. I have won 3 of the last 4 tournaments that I have entered with it and I took third yesterday losing to Imperial Painter, (a match about 90% in my favor) in top 4. My team mate couldn't have picked his hand better and I double mulled game 3. Hopefully the card god's will be kinder to me this coming week but either way I'll post the list after the event in Hadley this Saturday along with some card choice reasonings.
I will state this though, as much of an advocate for Cunning Wish that I used to be I don't miss the card at all anymore. Runed Halo provide's the diversity that was needed from Wish originally but is considerably faster and usually more effective.