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I've toyed around with the following SB:
1 Volcanic
1 Badlands
3 Pyroblast
2 Firesprout
3 T.Crypt
3 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
I'am not sure bout it, but red proved itself quite solid in a few test games vs. VG and vs. CB-Decks (Supreme U & Dreadstill).
I've also thought bout playing one of the duals in the maindeck, to be able to play the third Sprout.
Just for reference this is my latest list:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Spell Pierce
3 Thoughtseize
2 Snuff Out
1 Smother
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
Board:
4 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trygon Predator
1 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ichorid Hate (3 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Ravenous Trap seems very good)
*As much as I hate to say this, if Lands! and Loam becomes more popular,
there could be an argument to run *gasp* Extirpate here. It's probably
still terrible though. The fact that it still doesn't do enough against
Ichorid is the main strike against it.
Ever since I added 2 MD EE I've been extremely pleased. It helps drawing it in the midgame vs Zoo and solves many problems. I cut the 3rd Snuff Out a while ago for an alternate removal spell (Smother) because of the life loss against Merfolk, surprisingly enough. I don't want to draw 2 in that matchup.
As for Spell Pierce, I think you should be running 4 before you run 4 Thoughtseize. It is great but you want Pierce early even more than you want to see Thoughtseize imo, and Seize really shines by hitting removal before you play a threat in the midgame anyway. Things like Vial and Top that you really worry about as turn 1 plays are stopped more effectively by Pierce, and it also enables Stifle more often (mainly why I think it should be the 4 of over Seize).
You're out of the family.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
That was just for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep6er
which ichorid hate card is better for this deck? Tormod's Crypt OR Leyline of the Void?
and why are sinkholes being taken out?
I lol'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep6er
Your explanation for the 4X pierce makes sense. I will probably play that list but cut an EE for thoughtseize. Good to know about the infests. I had no chance to test it and just kinda hoped it would be good enough, fortunately I didn't get to find out firsthand that it wasn't. Trygon predators are definitely going back in, I have played them before and they were solid.
Extirpate could be fine. I think the disruption gives the deck enough game against dredge that you can afford to have a graveyard hate card that is slightly worse against them as long as it does something to disrupt them. I'd run a mix of extirpate and crypt.
Sinkholes have been replaced by spell pierce because it does more and costs less. It is kind of absurd that a 2 mana LD spell isn't good enough though.
Yeah, it was pretty hard to let go :cry:.Quote:
Originally Posted by GtF
Even though I do admit that Spell Pierce is insane it is even more ridicilous in addition to Sinkhole. How could an opp pay 2 more if we have 12 (!) ways to destroy Lands? Right now Iīm playing 4 Sinkhole/3 Pierce and I really love it. I did drop Seize completely though and added Clique for basically the some reason as playing Seize (picking removal) and having an additional Beater...
thatīs it at the moment:
//Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
2 Vendilion Clique
//Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
3 Ponder
4 Sinkhole
5 Snuff Out/Smother
//Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
nitewolf, while i agree on your choice of cutting down on Snuff Out and Thoughtseize, i dont know about Pierce in the main over Spell Snare.
While Snare and Size fullfill in some cases the same role (if you' re on the draw and need to stop there second turn play), it doesnt contradict to run both in some amounts.
Dont get me wrong - Spell Pierce is insane, but i am not sure if they are good enough for the maindeck over other choices. I still fear to get run over by creatures - EE helps there but its also kinda slow. Its versatility makes up for it though i guess.
If the format somewhat slows down and control decks emerge again i happily reinclude Sinkhole..
why dont people use deed instead of ee?
Because it's even slower, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanabo
ok, and is it still worth it to play bayou even though sinkholes have been replaced by spell pierces? and what would the benefit be by going 8 fetches, 8 duaks, and 4 wastelands?
I'm trying to build a budget (~$40) version of this deck. I know I'm going to grab the following:
Tombstalker
Brainstorm
Ponder
Spell Snare
Snuff Out
Smother
Daze (probably)
Spell Pierce (probably)
Beyond that, I plan on using some sub-par replacements for cards. While nothing can truly take Tarmogoyf's place, is there a reasonable card that helps serve it's purpose? I'm thinking Vampire Nighthawk. Does anybody have any suggestions?
Yeah just don't play green. Nighthawk or Vendilion Clique will work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pltnmngl
Yes, it will really be "subpar". In fact, not even the same deck anymore. Anyhow, what are you replacing the fetches with? As for the duals, even if you used the Ravnica ones you are going way over $40.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pltnmngl
Not Nighthawk. Something aggressive. Clique, Hyppie, Negator, whatever.
Is this deck honestly still any good? It seems to never win against aggressive decks and struggle to beat combo. Also, what do you guys think about maelstrom pulse?
Sorry, but how come a deck like this has a hard time against combo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanabo
FoW, Daze, Wasteland, Spell Pierce, Discard...
And a brutal clock.
Why are people saying not to run sinkhole? Isn't that the whole purpose of the deck?
The point isn't exclusively to blow up lands, it's to disrupt the opponent while huge creatures kill them. Bizarrely enough, sinkhole ends up being the worst disruption spell among all of them (including the new spell pierce) and so got cut, at least from my list. It's still not awful, but I just think there are better cards to run now that do what you need.
If you are having a hard time against combo something is wrong, that is supposed to be what the deck feasts on.
I haven't personally tried pulse but everyone says it's really good in other decks so it could be ok.