[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

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The fact that mongoose can't be StP/Path is the reason to play it over Grim Lavamancer.

CB plays Stp
Zoo plays Path
Landstill plays Stp and sometimes Path.
Goblins is splashing white more often for Stp. Also has Fanatic (still played) and Incinerator.

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Ok first things first, I posed this as more of a question than a statement.

Secondly I know that the differance is that it will die frequently but the thing is if you cast mancer T1 vs zoo one of a few things happens

1) They burn it down/path it
Your ok with this because they have no pressure T1 which is HUGE, and if you have the daze blowout all the better.

2) They play a dude
This is fine because you can burn it.

On the draw he is slightly worse but still eats a mana and a card after cast. At worst hes 1 mana to draw a burn spell at best he sticks and you win outright.

Vs goblins
Incinerator is a problem but again stifle is an overworked underpayed agent in this matchup so I dont see it as an issue. Also goblins doesnt actualy play fanatic any more.

I also think that being able to basicly beat mefolk on turn 1 is pretty sick.

In my substitutions you could even cut any number of cliques/EE for cotals for bigger more resiliant threats

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3 Lavamancer should be enough since you never want more than 1 on the board. Overall I think he´s better than Goose.
Right now my Creatures are
4 Goyf
3 Lavamancer
3 Coatl
2 Clique
1 Predator
and it´s wayyyy more pressure than normal TT. The lack of Spell Snare does not hurt so much as you force your opponent to play more aggressive than he would usually do. Definitely needs more testing but my first impression is great!

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I disagree double mancer is pretty nuts as they can even shoot down thoctars and predators with NO help netting large amounts of CA. I strongly approve of keeping at least 4 goyf and 2 clique because they just aggro them so fast, mongoose is aquard in that sometimes hes just a 1/1 for 1 which is pretty much utter trash. Its possible mongoose is in the board for some matchups but I feel that mancer should be MD because it hoses the heck out of aggro and this format is looking VERY aggro.

I just got a simple statement: Everybody who doens't play Nimble Mongoose, doesn't know how this deck works.
Nimble Mongoose is the reason why this decks performes so well. F.E David Caplan won 2 games vs Countertop thx to Nimble Mongoose.

Giving the argument: I kills Merfolk, may be true but you already HAVE a good matchup if you have a good Sideboard and when you're experienced (by testing), you know how to play against it.
This whole discussion about Tempo Threshold is just becomming so useless. I won't be replying too much here anymore, since all the active guys on this thread have no idea how to play the deck correctly. I don't say I do know how to play perfectly, ofcourse I do make mistakes. Everybody learns from his mistakes, but making decks that do not contain Mongoose or discussing the two open (over and over again) about the mainboard, just seems useless.

I'll post my list again. For the guys that do want to test it.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 fire/ice
4 force of will
3 force spike
4 lightning bolt
3 spell snare
4 stifle

4 ponder

2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard

3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Submerge
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vendilion Clique

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Originally Posted by kabal

When they know that you are playing very little treats, then yes I can see them using a removal spell. Just so we are clear ...

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I think you mean...

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Originally Posted by kabal

When they think that you are playing very few threats, then yes I can see them using a removal spell. Just so we are clear ...

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It that right?

...because undone's suggestion increased the number of threats in the deck with multiples of Clique and Predator. In that case, I'm personally hoping they spend the StP/PtE on the mancer for sure.

I think i'm gonna try clique as 2-3 of and preadator as a 1-2 of in place of spell snare... any thoughts?? has anyone tried this in a 'standard' build

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Originally Posted by Gibsonmac

I think i'm gonna try clique as 2-3 of and preadator as a 1-2 of in place of spell snare... any thoughts?? has anyone tried this in a 'standard' build

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Don't cut spell snare. Running more creatures is probably fine, but please don't cut spell snare.

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Originally Posted by Cenarius

rant

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Stagnation makes poison even the purest waters.

We're having a simple discussion about the direction of this deck in times of a meta shift. Clique and Predator are both intelligent responses to that shift...and mancer is still both very debatable and worthy of debate.

agree, you always want 4 spell snare unless you're playing vs decks that have no goyf/bob/piledriver/lord of atlantis/counterbalance/devastating dreams/life from the loam/survival of the fittest.

i would also not play the deck w/o 4 nimble mongoose, he is a boss.

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Originally Posted by sauce

i would also not play the deck w/o 4 nimble mongoose, He is THE boss.

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Agreed... Springsteen indeed...

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Originally Posted by kabal

The fact that mongoose can't be StP/Path is the reason to play it over Grim Lavamancer.

CB plays Stp
Zoo plays Path
Landstill plays Stp and sometimes Path.
Goblins is splashing white more often for Stp. Also has Fanatic (still played) and Incinerator.

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They all play 4 of each. If they swords grim, tarmo will overwhelm them. Also, lavamancer versions also run trygon/vendillion/sower/coatl since look more at middle-long game, so they will remain alive if opponent swords lavamancer.

The combination of mancer and clique (3 seems a good number for these lists) is more appealing (predator seems a bit situational and coatl is a 2/2 for 3 keep in mind!) , however, experience tells me Mongoose is just too good a card in this tempo strategy. Snare is a tool that you need against most of the field imo.

I'm feeling quite comfortable with the list that made 2º at gencon, with 2 cliques instead of bouncers (it wins by itself against ANT). And s.pierces are just awesome!

By the way, keep open to these ideas people! if I'm not mistaken, those lists made important results in huge events in Italy.

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Originally Posted by umbowta

Stagnation makes poison even the purest waters.

We're having a simple discussion about the direction of this deck in times of a meta shift. Clique and Predator are both intelligent responses to that shift...and mancer is still both very debatable and worthy of debate.

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It's not Rant or bawl. It's a fact. The whole deck evolves on Nimble Mongoose. It is thé best creature in your deck, perfectly supporting you tempo-idea (with shroud, oh really?). Why cut it?
You already have a good matchup against Merfolk decks. Boarding them out (all 4) is another thing I would never do. Probably you're inexperienced with the deck, stating that Mancer is very debatable. It isn't. Sure its worth to debate new things, but this is going on for what, 6 pages? With no decent results, no testing results etc.
Btw, Merfolk is in decline. If you haven't noticed. Atleast in my metagame.

Just hopping by to support Cenarius, this deck is designed to operate on low landcounts and spend alot of its gametime wrecking your opponent's ability to actually play the game, no need to be reactive with mancers when you have one mana 3/3's to sneak into the game while your opponent isn't watching to keep the pressure on.

Being reactive in a tempodeck is just a bad idea overall, take up the game and make your opponent react to you instead.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29431

your wrong.

The reason I was trying to stir discussion on the list is because I know how good mongoose is NORMALY he is the card you want to see vs blue.dec He is pretty mediocer in the merfolk matchup which is about 60/40 preboard and very even post board, mancer resolves and wins the game. Mancer being in the main conveniently allows for SB space for either snare or mongoose.

Mongoose is insane. However its not that good vs decks with a ton of dudes of equal size. Also as a side note the only two drops you even want to counter are counterbalance and goyf and chalice for 1, all can be answered by either mancer, EE or predator. Also my build is better vs zoo because path actualy GETS me a land and lets me play my bigger dudes.

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Originally Posted by Cenarius

It's not Rant or bawl. It's a fact. The whole deck evolves on Nimble Mongoose. It is thé best creature in your deck, perfectly supporting you tempo-idea (with shroud, oh really?). Why cut it?
You already have a good matchup against Merfolk decks. Boarding them out (all 4) is another thing I would never do. Probably you're inexperienced with the deck, stating that Mancer is very debatable. It isn't. Sure its worth to debate new things, but this is going on for what, 6 pages? With no decent results, no testing results etc.
Btw, Merfolk is in decline. If you haven't noticed. Atleast in my metagame.

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Dude! It's not fact. You're essentially calling anyone who doesn't blindly agree with you stupid and/or inexperienced. Lay off the ad hominems and argue the cards.

What is meant by, "Mancer is very debatable" is that its inclusion is questionable, or I'm not convinced Mancer is a good move. But the results undone has pointed out are recent, and interesting. Have you happened to notice that both Canadian Thresh decks that made top 8 at that event both eschewed Mongoose in favor of Grim Lavamancer, that is, no Tempo Thresh runnning goose made that top 8? Are you saying a 135 player event is not "decent results" by your definition?

Mancer is probably good in a super agro metagame with a lot of Merfolk, but Mongoose literally makes your control matchup. I tested the 12 creature/8 counter list and was underwhelmed, especially against control. Cutting Spell Snare and Goose just don't sit right with me right now.*

Edit- in the American East Coast/major tournament metagame. Depending on what is seeing a lot of play in Europe, that list might be the best call. I don't like Clique though. It's not big enough and it's ability is good, but not something I'm paying three mana for.

I'm playing a pretty standard build. (with 4 spell snare, of course)

I'm trying to figure out what would be the best 2 flexible slot if I expect some landstill and some aggro (goblins, merfolk, zoo, and maybe 1 fearie).

Probally a rushing river, but what would the slot #2 be ?
Thanks for any advices.

Firespout?

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Originally Posted by Guitar

I'm playing a pretty standard build. (with 4 spell snare, of course)

I'm trying to figure out what would be the best 2 flexible slot if I expect some landstill and some aggro (goblins, merfolk, zoo, and maybe 1 fearie).

Probally a rushing river, but what would the slot #2 be ?
Thanks for any advices.

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Probably 2x River, just because the extra bounce is relevant against Zoo. Wipe Away if you're seeing a lot of Planeswalkers because you usually only get one chance to bounce them.

What's the deal with trying to run firespout? I heard blowing up your own guys is bad :D
Also I really don't like the idea of maintaining 1 mana to use mancer at all.

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

What's the deal with trying to run firespout?

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Depends on the rest of your deck. If you run the basic built with 4 Goyf/Goose you should better try Pyroclasm if you´re expecting a lot of tribal. When there is no Goose but a lot of Clique/Predator then Firespout will hit everything on the ground quite fine.
From my experience maindecking Spout/Clasm is not that a good idea since they will be dead in too many matchups where you just can´t afford ist (Landstill, Garden, ANT).
Since I´m running 4 Goyf, 3 Mancer, 3 Coatl, 2 Clique, 1 Predator there are 3 Firespout in the Board. Except for Lavamancer all those guys should survive Firespout, so it is some kind of one sided Wrath.